Tithes And Offerings - Religion (99) - Nairaland
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"Stop Giving Offerings In Redeemed Churches If....." - Pastor Adeboye / Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles / Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 9:46pm On Nov 10, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: ^^^ Wow, with that picture... OLAADEGBU has seen the light! Hallelujah!! |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by PastorKun(m): 7:00am On Nov 11, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: The clown actually failed to realise the picture actually indicts him and his likes. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by debosky(m): 10:45am On Nov 11, 2013 |
Enigma: You can add that question to the growing list, including explaining how 'If you don't give your tithes to God, God will take it from you'.  3 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:14pm On Nov 11, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: Pastor Kun: READ Luke 22, John 13 (Jn 13:2) and find out what the key moment was for Judas Iscariot. If I were you I will guard my heart with all diligence, because not all thoughts are your own. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 7:39pm On Nov 11, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: My guy leave matter of DrummaBoy and Pastor Kun for Matthias and answer the questions posed at you and stop fooling yourself: Enigma: debosky: 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:04pm On Nov 11, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: If their questions aren't related to the topic of the OP then it is good for the garbage bin.
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 8:15pm On Nov 11, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: Impressive dodging technique! |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Goshen360(m): 11:43pm On Nov 11, 2013 |
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings by PastorKun(m): 6:30am On Nov 12, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: That's what he does best. Evidently he knows deep within himself that he is a pharisaic hypocrite. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:51am On Nov 12, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: Back to the topic at hand after all the enemies of progress had derailed it. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 12:18pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU:neither you, nor your idol Creflo Dollar can provide any Scripture that says we are to honour God with tithes. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:33pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: READ Matt. 27, Mark 15 (Matt. 27:3, 4) Once the enemy’s used someone he will cast them aside like a dead dog. Don't serve him for a second. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:54pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: The Two Tithing Systems 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiyWO7jnuck "Honour the LORD with your substance and with the firstfruits of all your increase: So shall your barns be filled with plenty and your presses shall burst out with new wine" (Proverbs 3:9,10). Stressing the importance of training in God's Word. The blessing comes on you when you honour God's Word over the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes and the pride of life. Everytime you honour God you put yourself in position of the blessing. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by shdemidemi(m): 5:27am On Nov 13, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: Mr Oladegbu, if what you believe is that every man can turn on or turn off God's blessings through tithing, what then happens to God's predestined will and purpose for every life? 'Jacob I love, Esau I hate'--- could Esau by any chance circumvent God's choice if he had tithed? 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 1:11pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
shdemidemi:This scripture best answer your question.(Matt 22:15-21). |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by shdemidemi(m): 6:43pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Bidam: This scripture best answer your question.(Matt 22:15-21). 15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk. How does this explain the answer to my question? |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Nobody: 8:50pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
shdemidemi:Ask Jesus.  |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 9:30pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: 1 Samuel 2:30 Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.There is really no need to run off tangent. It is quite simple. If you honour someone, you respect the person's words. If you honour God, you read and obey His words. This is what Mr Creflo was saying, You honour God by honouring His word, by not being ignorant of God's word. Creflo Dollar, in his video, “The Two Tithing System”, said, “This foundation (honouring God) is the key to the progress that we see…”Like you quoted, honouring God is the key to progress. The man says nothing about subjecting oneself to the law or being unfaithful to Jesus. He said to obey God. You also mysteriously ask "Why walk in disobedience to the truth,.... Why be disobedient to Jesus Christ?" This is what Creflo advocated for in his message, obeying God's Word. Creflo Dollar quotes the Bible to ask the question: “If our foundation be destroyed, what can the righteous do? Good question! The problem? What foundation is Creflo trying to build upon? Jesus Christ? or the Mosaic/Levitic Law? The foundation for the peoples pre-cross was the Mosaic/Levitic Law. This side of the cross, however, is built upon a different foundation. Unlike the Law, our foundation is sure. Our foundation is the truth that Jesus is “the Christ, the Son of the Living God.”The foundation he was talking about in the message was the Word of God, obedience to God, honouring Him. He didn't try to build on Levitical law. One cannot mix truth and error and expect the truth not to become error. This is what is happening in so many Churches today when they place themselves in subjection to any part of the Mosaic/Levitic Law. This is what is happening in Creflo's sermon from the two videos. While there are many truths contained in what Creflo said in the videos, those truths are tainted with error and become error because Creflo mixes in the command given to Israel and Israel only in a foolish attempt to deceive the hearers into subjecting themselves to a part of the Mosaic/Levitic Law.You seem to be the one doing the mixing. Anyone that watches the two videos would be amazed at where you got all these stuff you were on about. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 9:30pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: I have been listening to the entire sermon that Creflo Dollar preached. He is slick, to say the least.Stop picking and choosing as you do the Word of God. The man was very clear to state the context. He wanted to speak, not just about money but more importantly about honouring God. he referenced Joseph being refered to as blessed/prosperous even as a slave, when he had nothing. He said trhat your stuff/money/property is not what makes you blessed. He talked about people honouring God when they wanted to get married. There was nothing slick or manipulative about it, he was very explanatory and clear. He goes from 1 Samuel 2:30 to Proverbs 3:9-10 to the Garden of Eden.you are being deceptive here. He did not equate the one tree in the garden as the tithe as you are insinuating here. Then, he goes into Abram's tithe (the first tithing system) to Melchizedek. He fails to tell the congregation that Abram did not even tithe of his own property, but of the property of Bera, king of Sodom. Abram wouldn't even claim the property as his own. He did not see it as his own. He did not see it as "his increase." Yet Creflo makes it Abram's increase.Abraham tithed of the spoils of war, not of Bera's property Video 8, Creflo says that Melchizedek released "the blessing" AFTER Abram tithed. Yet, the Bible tells us Abram received the blessing BEFORE he gave tithes to Melchizedek. And the people in the congregation must not be reading their Bibles, for they are all "amening" Creflo's deception.Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. 'And', not 'Then' is the preposition(abi na conjuction dey call am) used in the passage. "Then" is more suggestive of the sequence, "And" is not that suggestive, so there is no rigid sequence to be followed. It is however normal for a man of God to bless people when they receive something. Even little me, if someone gives me 5naira, i will bless the person. It is not out of place that Melchisedec blessed Abraham after he gave him tithes. It is also not out of place that Melchisedec blessed him before he gave tithe. But the scripture was not as specific as you would want it to. Notice how specific the next paragragh is, noting that it wasn't initially written with verses and chapters. Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. Again, he tells the congregation it is not about money but about honour. Then immediately goes into the spin of money again. Do not be deceived... the message is about money. You forgot to inform us that he talked about Abraham and Jacob both giving tithe 500 and 250 years respectively before the commandment of tithing. Instead, you try to make us think that Creflo was bringing people to the law. He said the actions was about their love, honour and appreciation. Try not to twist the context. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 9:38pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: What 'The Two Tithing Systems" is, is pure manipulation by a deceitful minister.He said that when we honour God or give to God, God blesses us. i did not hear him say we MUST tithe in order to honour God or must tithe in order to be blessed. Kindly point to the part where he said so, which of the videos or minute? Romans 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.If anything, it is you and your ilk that is causing divisions and schisms contrary to the doctrine that God's people have learned. You are the type to be avoided. You are the ones trying to deceive the hearts of God's simple sheep. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 9:38pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds:for real, just curious. Are you blind? |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 10:11pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Yes, i am blind. Attached is a picture of me, taken by my wife. (Who helped me put it on the internet too)
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 11:10pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: Thought it good to say one or two things on this video as well. BTW, the video is just a summary of the usual antitithe argument in about 12minutes. The name of the antitither here is Cornelius Simon. His take is that antitihing came after him or something like that. His views are the quoted below. 1. Abraham did not pay his tithe, he gave his tithe out of increase from spoils of war not necessarily out of income.1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings. 1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; The scriptures uses the words "pay" and "give" interchangeably with tithing both before the law and during the law. The Bible talks of Abraham, Levites and Pharisee giving tithe. It also talks of Abraham paying tithe. Here are some of the passages below. Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham. Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him. Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. Num 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer a heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD's heave offering to Aaron the priest This last Numbers passage is referring to the tithe that the Levites give to the priest. Antitithers like to ask it as paying 1% to the storehouse. As it is seen here, whether you say give or pay or offer or whatever grammar you use. What matters is that you took a tenth of the whole to honour God. 2.Jacob vowed as a condition to give tithe, it was not mandatory.This is the same point that most tithe preachers make. Most tithe preachers will tell us that tithing is not to be done as under the law, but like it was done even before the law. In the New Covenant, nothing seems to be mandatory, though like i would love to say, all things are. Its an oxymoron of sorts. Prayer is not mandatory, Bible study is not, giving is not, yet they are. All things are lawful for me, but i am not brought UNDER the power of any. 3. Tithing was of land, therefore blacksmith or accountants and those not farmers were not required to pay tithe.This remains an unprovable assumption. There is no scripture that denies anyone the privilege of tithing to God or any form of giving. In fact, the Leviticus passage in question was trying to "grab as much as possible" for the Lord if i can use that phrase. It was outlining things that could be redeemed, that would not be given mandatorily. The tithe was irredeemable. Animals were irredeemable, you could not change them, you could only add to them, even if you felt they were not the best or healthiest. Everything devoted was holy unto God, not just land produce. If one reads the whole Leviticus 27 in proper and full context, you would see these things and the aim of the passage, instread of blindly talking about definitions that are not there. 4. We need to practice tithe in totality, that is buy strong drink etc with tithe.No one stops you from practicing the tithe in totality, or obeying the Word of God. Who has hindered you. What i know is that no one is 100% there yet. The little we can do on our journey to perfection, we do. There is no need to discourage others and point them critically to only the parts that they seem to have missed it. Remove the log in your own eye. It's like seeing someone who studies scriptures and prays fervently but does not give. Its okay to encourage such to also give. But what antitithers do is discourage the person from praying or studying, telling him that he has failed once he did not also give. Meanwhile, they do nothing like the hypocrites in Jesus'days. Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5. There is no mention of the word "tithe"by paul the man in all his writings. Therefore tithing has been replaced with giving.i do not believe that a particular instruction has to be in every book of the Bible before it is obeyed. Paul himself said that all scripture is inspired by God, not just his writings. All scriptures are profitable for instruction in righteousness. Jesus Himself said that "Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. " Tithe is a tiny aspect of the law of God. There are weightier and more important things to harp about than tithe or no tithe(Matthew 23.23). That the average antitither takes tithe practice as the alpha and omega of his faith does not mean that God sees it that way. Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 6. Something is wrong when we feel guilty if we do not tithe as there is now no condemnation to Christians.Total rubbish. This is the new age gospel and doctrine. That we should be driven by feeling, that if you feel good it is good, it is bad to feel bad. This is rubbish. A christian should feel bad if something went wrong, this is not condemnation. If i told a lie, i would feel guilty. It is not wrong to feel guilty. Sometimes, i feel guilty if someone asked me for help and i could not render it, but i do not feel condemned or unaccepted by God. That is very different. Even sometimes, if i correct someone, i might feel guilty, even though the person was wrong. There is nothing wrong with this. A beggar might ask you for money and you did not give him/her, and you feel guilty. Its okay to feel guilty, christians are not sadists. If i'm late to church or i miss church(even legitimately), nothing wrong if i feel guilty. But i'm not condemned. Folks should learn not to just mumble things up anyhow. Feeling guilty that you did not give tithe is not the same as being condemned. It just showed that your conscience felt that you did not do something good, you have a sensitive conscience in that area. Its up to one though, one may choose to deaden the conscience. i've seen people who initially felt guilty cheating others for instance, but overtime they got used to it, and can even defend themselves for cheating others. By and by, logic and points and arguments do not end, the whole duty of man remains to fear God and keep His commandments. 1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:04pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: Yes, i am blind. Is this for real? Are you sure that you're not the same person as Russel Kelly who is also registered blind?  |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Enigma(m): 8:18pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
^^^^ That is sooooo cheap! Anyway Russell Kelly is actually a registered member and while I will wait for Mark to confirm that they are different people (I stand to be corrected), I can also tell you that Russell Kelly actually looks different. Smh 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by PastorKun(m): 8:33pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
Enigma: ^^^^ That is sooooo cheap! Leave olaadegbu to his evil machinations, he would insult even his oga @ the top (Kumuyi) if Kumuyi preaches against the tithe scam. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 8:45pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU:Olaadegbu, I am blind. I am not Russell Kelly. Do you think Russell Kelly is the only blind person in the world? |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 8:49pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
Enigma: ^^^^ That is sooooo cheap!You are correct, Enigma. Russell and I are not the same person. I have conversed with Russell Kelly on a few points via email though. Russell and I are not in total agreement with all that he teaches in his book or on his website. For the most part, we are. But there are somethings that I totally disagree with him on. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by Enigma(m): 8:53pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: You are correct, Enigma. Thanks a lot for the clarification, Mark. The Lord is to be praised that you can be a blessing despite blindness. I am happy to have you in our midst here. God bless. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by DrummaBoy(m): 8:55pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
Enigma: I share the same sentiments, Mr Miwerds, with Enigma. I just wonder how despite your disabilities you still do so well countering these errors. How do you do it? God bless you Mark Miwerds! |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 9:17pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: Thank you DrummaBoy! God is gracious. Though my physical blindness is a hindrance, it is also a blessing. I do not have to be tempted through visual deceptions that are in everybody's lives from day to day. God has spared me that, maybe because He is true to His Word and knows that visual temptations would be too much for me. 1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. I read and write braille, (learned at the tender age of 9) walk with my Mahler cane, (had to start using it at the age of 28 ) and have DragonNaturallySpeaking to allow me to type on the PC by speaking to it through my headset microphone. I hear your posts (and others) spoken to me through a synthesized voice using MS Windows built in text-to-speech software program. Pictures, I have to have described to me. I do not miss my sight at all. Seems this world is getting more and more evil as the days go by. Pastors have allowed the enemy to creep in their Churhes (something that Paul warned the Church to be aware of) and through subtitle misdirection, have led many away from the truth concerning what God said that the tithes consisted of and to whom the tithes were to be given. Pastors, being weak in proper Biblical study, also have become led away by these lies and that is why the Church has become, as Jesus would put it, "a den of thieves" today. We are told in the second epistle to Timothy to "Preach the Word", yet so many have strayed from the Word and instead chase after the invention of man and have become defiled. Psalms 106:39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions. Paul, in his epistle to the Church at Corinth wrote that "if any man defile the Temple, him will God destroy." I pity those pastors who defile the Church through their sermons on tithing that don't even line up with God's Word. Unless they repent, they will perish. 4 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings by MarkMiwerds(m): 9:19pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
Enigma:Thank you, Enigma! Fight the good fight of faith, and stand with those who endeavor to battle for the Truth as it is written in God's Holy Word. God will truly bless all who serve Him faithfully here below. |
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