Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,196,517 members, 7,961,608 topics. Date: Sunday, 29 September 2024 at 09:42 AM

**the Evolution Thread** - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / **the Evolution Thread** (1243 Views)

The Evolution Of The Sexes And Sexxual Reproduction / The Evolution Of Morality / The Evolution Myth And The ‘God Question' (2) (3) (4)

(1) (Reply) (Go Down)

**the Evolution Thread** by AVmonster: 12:40am On Dec 23, 2012

Evolution has always a topic of discussion in the religion section.. I got bored of reading people making baseless claims on evolution, so I created this thread to improve their understanding...
Depending on your religious views you probably support or reject evolution... I, myself am a deist so I could either support or reject it as my religious views don't oppose or support it...
I;m not going to talk about the origin of life,(i.e the first micro-organisms) since its a disputed topic..
Before I begin, there are a few things I'm gonna use as a base for my explaining
1. Age of the Earth (4.54 billion years) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
2. That everyone reading this is Educated..
[img]http://www.paulbailey.me/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/evolution.jpg[/img]
Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.
There are 6 stages of evolution
1. From the origin of life to the ”Last Common Ancestor"
2. Prokaryote diversification
3. Unicellular eukaryote diversification
4. Multicellularity
5. Invasion of the land
6. Appearance of intelligence
Evolution in organisms occurs through changes in heritable traits – particular characteristics of an organism.
Then by process of natural selection, the traits that helps the organism survive are favored..t
Natural Selection is a simple idea that all normal people should agree with.. But can natural selection lead to speciation(The process by which new species are formed)?
If the two animals of the same specie are separated in some way, excessive differences in their alleles could make them so different that they lose their ability to reproduce with each other... This of-course, happens many generations after the split..
So,we can agree that speciation does occur.. Proof of this lies in most isolated places(e.g Australia) where species exist that cannot be found else where.
Now that I've given reasons for Natural Selection and speciation lets talk about the stages of evolution..


Let's imagine prokaryote cells in water without having to worry about where they came from... I'd imagine them quite a bit different from the prokaryotes of today. They would have been weak, easily killed by little changes in temperature..Mutations would have been occurring at faster rate compared to their modern decedents. This would help select better traits and only make them stronger and help push life into the second stage of evolution..

END OF PART 1
Re: **the Evolution Thread** by ooman(m): 12:56am On Dec 23, 2012
First Nigerian i know to claim deism. You got evolution right, most of which you googled. Anyway, since you are a deist. Let me just tell you how the universe started, since that is the only reason you doubt atheism.

The universe started when a chaotic cosmic egg (filled with energy - energy is eternal, everlasting, it cannot be created or destroyed)exploded some 15 billions years ago. This explosion caused expansion and when the exploded energy expanded in space, it formed all matter including planets, suns, blackholes, weak force, strong force, elctromagnetic energy. After the explosion, the universe was born and reactions started happening in it. It is important to note that the amount of everything in the universe is constant. Nothing goes out or into the universe, so all reactions and formations in it are totally spontaneous. No God needed

When the earth first formed, it was hot and stormy, there was no free oxygen but there were abundant H2, NH3, CH4, N2, CO2 and H2O. This simple six chemicals produced complex molecules of life, the first proteins called proteomes (not an official name yet). The proteomes, in the stormy warm ocean, reacted and formed the first "simple" cells and that was how organic evolution occurred. We dont see proteomes again because there is now free oxygen in the atmosphere and the ocean is not warm. Present conditions dont support organic evolution but evolution in already evolved cells.

I have given you a short version of how everything started. There is a long version of course but this isnt a nursery school, you have to read books and observe nature yourself. Dont just believe what is in the text books, look into nature to confirm. I did and confirmed that evolution is true and that there is no God.
Re: **the Evolution Thread** by AVmonster: 5:27am On Dec 23, 2012
ooman: First Nigerian i know to claim deism. You got evolution right, most of which you googled. Anyway, since you are a deist. Let me just tell you how the universe started, since that is the only reason you doubt atheism.

The universe started when a chaotic cosmic egg (filled with energy - energy is eternal, everlasting, it cannot be created or destroyed)exploded some 15 billions years ago. This explosion caused expansion and when the exploded energy expanded in space, it formed all matter including planets, suns, blackholes, weak force, strong force, elctromagnetic energy. After the explosion, the universe was born and reactions started happening in it. It is important to note that the amount of everything in the universe is constant. Nothing goes out or into the universe, so all reactions and formations in it are totally spontaneous. No God needed

When the earth first formed, it was hot and stormy, there was no free oxygen but there were abundant H2, NH3, CH4, N2, CO2 and H2O. This simple six chemicals produced complex molecules of life, the first proteins called proteomes (not an official name yet). The proteomes, in the stormy warm ocean, reacted and formed the first "simple" cells and that was how organic evolution occurred. We dont see proteomes again because there is now free oxygen in the atmosphere and the ocean is not warm. Present conditions dont support organic evolution but evolution in already evolved cells.

I have given you a short version of how everything started. There is a long version of course but this isnt a nursery school, you have to read books and observe nature yourself. Dont just believe what is in the text books, look into nature to confirm. I did and confirmed that evolution is true and that there is no God.
That is not even the main reason I doubt atheism
And of course I googled part of it..I can't just pull out numbers from my ass and expect people to believe it..
And What proof do u have that this chaotic egg just appeared from nowhere.. Plus, according to the theory,it wasn't a chaotic egg but a giant black hole that imploded on it self...The only theory that explains it well is string theory and that gives more problems.. This thread is strictly for evolution

The method of organic evolution you mentioned has serious issues as it leaves a lot to assumptions; such as the type of proteins that existed then, the environment then,etc.. I need more evidence before I can accept organic evolution as fact...

With all your observing I'd like to know how to confirmed the big b@ng.. As for me, I try to understand it then I use taught experiments to yest them...
Re: **the Evolution Thread** by AtheistD(m): 6:21am On Dec 23, 2012
Good info

I think more ppl will learn from this.
Re: **the Evolution Thread** by AVmonster: 8:14am On Dec 23, 2012
before I start part 2, I would like to point out some issues I have with evolution at that stage in part 1.
How did reproduction begin?
The process of evolution depends greatly on reproduction and so cells could not have evolved a means of reproducing (asexually)..
I'm open to any explanation but it has to make sense, if not, you'll just be fooling yourself

PART 2
[img]http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/images/endosymbiosis/cells.gif[/img]
The Evolution of Prokaryotes to Eukaryotes is well understood...
The main difference between eukaryotes and prokaryotes is that eukaryotes have membrane bounded organelles while prokaryotes do not..
So how exactly did this membranes around organelles come about?
The best evidence we have right now suggests that some prokaryotic cells incorporated other cells, with their own DNA, into their structure -- and that was the change. That's supported by the fact that mitochondrial DNA is separate from and different than the "main" cell's DNA, and is contained only in the nucleus of cells. It makes sense. If there was a simple cell around that was processing food and putting out a "waste product" that was useful to another type of single- celled organism that was perhaps a bit larger, the larger cell could incorporate the smaller cell inside itself, feed it nutrients, and then use its "waste" output for its own purposes -- a symbiotic relationship. They may have started out as two cells latching onto each other side-by-side, and over time that symbiotic relationship evolved so that the smaller cell could exist inside the larger one, and eventually linking the two together in a permanent symbiotic relationship.

[img]http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/images/endosymbiosis/endosymbiosis.gif[/img]
Re: **the Evolution Thread** by ooman(m): 8:46am On Dec 23, 2012
AVmonster: before I start part 2, I would like to point out some issues I have with evolution at that stage in part 1.
How did reproduction begin?
The process of evolution depends greatly on reproduction and so cells could not have evolved a means of reproducing (asexually)..
I'm open to any explanation but it has to make sense, if not, you'll just be fooling yourself

PART 2
[img]http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/images/endosymbiosis/cells.gif[/img]
The Evolution of Prokaryotes to Eukaryotes is well understood...
The main difference between eukaryotes and prokaryotes is that eukaryotes have membrane bounded organelles while prokaryotes do not..
So how exactly did this membranes around organelles come about?
The best evidence we have right now suggests that some prokaryotic cells incorporated other cells, with their own DNA, into their structure -- and that was the change. That's supported by the fact that mitochondrial DNA is separate from and different than the "main" cell's DNA, and is contained only in the nucleus of cells. It makes sense. If there was a simple cell around that was processing food and putting out a "waste product" that was useful to another type of single- celled organism that was perhaps a bit larger, the larger cell could incorporate the smaller cell inside itself, feed it nutrients, and then use its "waste" output for its own purposes -- a symbiotic relationship. They may have started out as two cells latching onto each other side-by-side, and over time that symbiotic relationship evolved so that the smaller cell could exist inside the larger one, and eventually linking the two together in a permanent symbiotic relationship.

[img]http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/images/endosymbiosis/endosymbiosis.gif[/img]

Reproduction began with the replication of DNA. didnt you see that on google?

If you are really a biologist, you would know that Phospholipids spontaneously aggregate around any positively charge molecules like proteins. Phospholipids are negatively charged because of phosphate group they contain.

I like your endosymbiosis. But you googled again, you dont have your personally explanations. I thought that is why you started a thread, because you have something new to say, NOT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO TELL ME WHAT I ALREADY KNOW
Re: **the Evolution Thread** by ooman(m): 8:49am On Dec 23, 2012
AVmonster: That is not even the main reason I doubt atheism
And of course I googled part of it..I can't just pull out numbers from my ass and expect people to believe it..
And What proof do u have that this chaotic egg just appeared from nowhere.. Plus, according to the theory,it wasn't a chaotic egg but a giant black hole that imploded on it self...The only theory that explains it well is string theory and that gives more problems.. This thread is strictly for evolution

The method of organic evolution you mentioned has serious issues as it leaves a lot to assumptions; such as the type of proteins that existed then, the environment then,etc.. I need more evidence before I can accept organic evolution as fact...

With all your observing I'd like to know how to confirmed the big b@ng.. As for me, I try to understand it then I use taught experiments to yest them...


The only evidence i can give is the experiment of Urey-Miller. They simulated the early earth environment and produced Adenine, Urea and some other organic molecules "spontaneously". I must say though that no one has been able to produce living cell yet. I am not trying to prove a God so i dont have to lie about anything. But we are hopeful that improved nanotech will help on that.

For big b.ang, search for Christopher Sley's explanation on google, also search for Einstein's equation Rik = 0?, Geometry of space, Einstein's cross, Gravitational lens, inflationary big b.ang.

OK i dont want to inundate you. One by One you will understand it all.

But you can be sure that the egg was not a giant egg, that would be against einstein's equation and all of einstein equations are proved right. where did you see a giant cosmic egg? You people need to go back to school.

(1) (Reply)

6 Things Christians Need To Stop Saying / We Need To Ban Christianity And Islam / The Original Religion Of The Jews

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 43
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.