ikennahill:

Get a copy of the law establishing optometry inn the country, you can get it even online, also get a copy of the scheme of service of optometrists then you will see the work of an optometrist and not what you think their work should be.

omonnakoda: What exacly is a job "prescription" what does that mean

gmyguy: Maybe we should complain at the next UN assembly that doctors' salaries in the usa is way absurd and its affecting medical practice in the third world...i dont even earn upto 200k a month and somebody is calling me greedy and selfish. i better join dbanj, at least he earns more money and people like him

gmyguy: he is the one who started the topic you are misfiring about...the thread opener...and he is a med dr...what r u?residents dont set lines...

gmyguy: so, what is d solution then?

on a good day:
do your work and allow others do their...chikina

omonnakoda:
There is one unfortunate thing about debate in Nigeria w eoften personalize it.It is a contest to establish superiority,unfortunately. I really am not sure what my alleged offence is. I mentioned earlier that I am a doctor and many here say I am lying. With all respect to my teachers and mentors there is nothing to boast about being a doctor.It is a position of service which should be approached with humility,a rare commodity in modern Nigeria. Becoming a doctor is NOT WORTH BOASTING ABOUT. Really.In fact it is embarrassing when you have no money compared to others less gifted academically!!
There is a common myth that doctors are scientists,they are not !they are technicians(a debate for another thread) .A paramedic is another technician common in western countries ,when I was in Nigeria there was no such thing.Basically they are themain crew of ambulances and have skills like ;intubation,basic and advanced life support and general emergency care.They saved the life of Fabrice Muamba initially and then doctors took over. Everyone is important. Nigerians and Nigerian doctors have serious ego problems ,the need to dominate and lord it over everyone we see it with Jonathan Amaechi and the Nigerian doctor is worse. I have seen resident doctors with grey hair running to open the door for Oga consultant , bow and take his bag off him.He has failed several attempts at part 2 because Oga is annoyed with him etc etc that is the Nigerian psyche. Bitter ,bullying and bombastic with no progressive outlook sadly they have created many neophytes ,HERE, in their own image..............
There is nothing to write home about of the Nigerian doctor in Nigeria,Nothing!!

omonnakoda: This thread is not about me .Who the hell are you to ask me what I do.?What relevance is it.People holding position of President in Nigeria utter stupid statements all the time and so the position I hold does not validate my opinion.You reason like an undergraduate

I do not need to prove anything and I cannot prove anything. Let us deal with the issue here which is that doctors,adults who earn probably the highest salaries in the public sector in Nigeria want the government to pay for further training for them to improve themselves and their financial prospects. In a perfect world this may not be bad but government does not do this for any other group in the country except maybe the military.why should they do it for doctors. My point is doctors should be prepared to make a financial sacrifice/contribution to their training and they can reap the VERY PERSONAL financial rewards afterwards. That is the issue ,let us debate that respectfully rather than engaging in the usual "doctors are the highest ever known" rhetoric or other abusive tirades which no one has a monopoly of. No one is saying it is not a good thing if resources are unlimited but where they are I think government will do better and the nation benefit more from training Teachers,Engineers and Community health workers than doctors who relatively are rich and can pay for their own training! Many of those here claiming to be doctors in Nigeria cannot even write good English and guess what for that very reason I do not doubt they are doctors. I meet them here all the time and I repeat as I have said severally most Nigeria doctors from the mid 90s to date cheated their way through WAEC JAMB and medical school. We all know this and this is our shame as a nation. When you have those kinds of characters in the profession what do you expect?

jp philips:


Why do you think it is justified for the Govt to train the military on both local and international courses but not the doctors?
if i should agree with your training argument, what of the area of equipment procurement? should the doctors purchase the ECG machines themselves too? while you attempt to answer that, know ye that every modern equipment demands at least a technical know how for one to be able to use it effectively.

omonnakoda:
The military are obliged to work for the government after the training if they do not they can be jailed or killed even. Doctors on the other hand receive training for their own benefit just like any other professional.If goverment does it for doctors why not engineers and lawyers and teachers etc.
The reason is simple resources are limited and so choices must be made/priorities set.
It is for every society to decide what are their training priorities given limited resources. This should be done through the political process and social debate not by coercive action of strikes etc. Or one group screaming we are the most important profession in the land. Let society decide and they have done!!Accept the verdict and move on
The issue of equipment is just an alibi. Nigeria is a poor and corrupt nation and the issue of funding is pervasive across Nigeria and not new.Doctors are not striking about equipment let us not deceive ourselves.They are striking for their training funding.Anyway there was a time when doctors genuinely did strike for equipment.I know because I was there and guess what Beko Ransome Kuti was jailed by Buhari and many Nigerians supported him. In so doing The Nation has chosen. doctors should protect their interests and I support that 1000% but spare us this hypocrisy that they are fighting for equipment.Anyway the government did spend good money purchasing equipment under Obasanjo but it can never be enough and there will always be leakages.
The more mature discussion should look at the bigger picture and how more private public partnerships can develop to make the sector more efficient.Government should hands off anything above a health centre and let doctors,nurses etc form companies and run their own hospital in a concessionary arrangement .My personal view is doctors like lawyers should not be government employees but that is another debate

on a good day:




you want to know...then follow this link

http://www.psnnational.org/psn/news/news-headline/210-memorandum-submitted-to-the-presidential-committee-on-a-harmonious-work-relationship-amongst-health-workers-and-amongst-professional-groups-in-the-heaith-sector-in-nigeria-by-the-pharmaceutical-society-of-nigeria-psn.html
OR this
https://www.nairaland.com/372867/wage-politics-nigerian-doctors-truly

The military are obliged to work for the government after the training if they do not they can be jailed or killed even. Doctors on the other hand receive training for their own benefit just like any other professional.If goverment does it for doctors why not engineers and lawyers and teachers etc.

The reason is simple resources are limited and so choices must be made/priorities set.
It is for every society to decide what are their training priorities given limited resources. This should be done through the political process and social debate not by coercive action of strikes etc. Or one group screaming we are the most important profession in the land.

The issue of equipment is just an alibi. Nigeria is a poor and corrupt nation and the issue of funding is pervasive across Nigeria and not new.Doctors are not striking about equipment let us not deceive ourselves.They are striking for their training funding

Anyways, there was a time when doctors genuinely did strike for equipment.I know because I was there and guess what Beko Ransome Kuti was jailed by Buhari and many Nigerians supported him. In so doing The Nation has chosen. doctors should protect their interests and I support that 1000% but spare us this hypocrisy that they are fighting for equipment.

Anyway the government did spend good money purchasing equipment under Obasanjo but it can never be enough and there will always be leakages.
The more mature discussion should look at the bigger picture and how more private public partnerships can develop to make the sector more efficient.Government should hands off anything above a health centre and let doctors,nurses etc form companies and run their own hospital in a concessionary arrangement .My personal view is doctors like lawyers should not be government employees but that is another debate

gmyguy: type it out now...abi you are too lazy to explain yourself

eaglechild:
How is asking for training facilities and funding preventing others from doing their work?

jp philips: author=omonnakoda



I know there is still a period of service for every officer where he has the choice to walk, if so, how is it different from the bond the doctors sign with the government after training?





i agree completely with the coercion part, however, for a country whose mortality rate has increased drastically in a short period, isn't it wise for the Govt to beam its search light on the health sector and "prioritize" it differently from the other sectors as a matter of intervention?

though i am not an advocate of strike, can you kindly list two other Languages the Nigerian Govt understands?






Unless you are the chairman, president or spokes person of NRDA, your reference to "Alibi" is mere speculation.






there is no doubt how much history you have displayed in your previews post, as a reminder, Nigeria conducted an election in 1999 and ever since, we have never experienced any military coup, also Buhari is no longer the president of Nigeria though he played several return matches from 2003 till date without success.
kindly send congratulatory message to the kuti's family because beko has been released, do away with the newspaper archive in your office, using the Nigeria health sector scenario of 1984 to juxtapose the reality of 2013, is a very poor attempt.





I am very much aware of the procurement obasanjo did in 2002/2003, exactly 10yrs from now.
from what i have seen in some national hospitals, these equipments are still there but not functional. In your infinite wisdom, don't you think that incompetence must have played a major role in the break down of those equipments?
a case study was the explosion of a fibrillator in one of our health centers where the equipment was rated 110v.

the doctor on duty plugged it into the Nigerian wall socket of 220v, the rest was history, don't you think that if the doctor was trained on the use of step down AC converters, the fibulator would still be in service till date?

cxm6: been reading thru posts made by some folks here and i cant help but pity their ignorance. And since when did doctors become administrators to lead?...wht qualifications do they have to 'head' the hospital...i stay in the US..and in all the hospitals i have been to...none ...i repeat none is headed by a doctor.!. Go find out they are headed by hospital administrators. Docs hv a lot on their hands to worry abt much more to head a hospital.i blame our leaders past and present who come here to get treatmnt and not learn sumtin to better our country. So please all the docs or doc lovers ranting thrash and displaying high levels of igorance......u r not more imptnt dan even d cleaner in ur clinics....so stop playing God and serve!. U took the hippocratic oath remember?..if u feel u r not appreciated ...go take anoder profession like sewing or sumtin

omonnakoda: This thread is not about me .Who the hell are you to ask me what I do.?What relevance is it.People holding position of President in Nigeria utter stupid statements all the time and so the position I hold does not validate my opinion.You reason like an undergraduate

I do not need to prove anything and I cannot prove anything. Let us deal with the issue here which is that doctors,adults who earn probably the highest salaries in the public sector in Nigeria want the government to pay for further training for them to improve themselves and their financial prospects. In a perfect world this may not be bad but government does not do this for any other group in the country except maybe the military.why should they do it for doctors. My point is doctors should be prepared to make a financial sacrifice/contribution to their training and they can reap the VERY PERSONAL financial rewards afterwards. That is the issue ,let us debate that respectfully rather than engaging in the usual "doctors are the highest ever known" rhetoric or other abusive tirades which no one has a monopoly of. No one is saying it is not a good thing if resources are unlimited but where they are I think government will do better and the nation benefit more from training Teachers,Engineers and Community health workers than doctors who relatively are rich and can pay for their own training! Many of those here claiming to be doctors in Nigeria cannot even write good English and guess what for that very reason I do not doubt they are doctors. I meet them here all the time and I repeat as I have said severally most Nigeria doctors from the mid 90s to date cheated their way through WAEC JAMB and medical school. We all know this and this is our shame as a nation. When you have those kinds of characters in the profession what do you expect?
Regarding ego and abuse in medical training,it is cultural thing and is more common in south west.

omonnakoda: This thread is not about me .Who the hell are you to ask me what I do.?What relevance is it.People holding position of President in Nigeria utter stupid statements all the time and so the position I hold does not validate my opinion.You reason like an undergraduate

I do not need to prove anything and I cannot prove anything. Let us deal with the issue here which is that doctors,adults who earn probably the highest salaries in the public sector in Nigeria want the government to pay for further training for them to improve themselves and their financial prospects. In a perfect world this may not be bad but government does not do this for any other group in the country except maybe the military.why should they do it for doctors. My point is doctors should be prepared to make a financial sacrifice/contribution to their training and they can reap the VERY PERSONAL financial rewards afterwards. That is the issue ,let us debate that respectfully rather than engaging in the usual "doctors are the highest ever known" rhetoric or other abusive tirades which no one has a monopoly of. No one is saying it is not a good thing if resources are unlimited but where they are I think government will do better and the nation benefit more from training Teachers,Engineers and Community health workers than doctors who relatively are rich and can pay for their own training! Many of those here claiming to be doctors in Nigeria cannot even write good English and guess what for that very reason I do not doubt they are doctors. I meet them here all the time and I repeat as I have said severally most Nigeria doctors from the mid 90s to date cheated their way through WAEC JAMB and medical school. We all know this and this is our shame as a nation. When you have those kinds of characters in the profession what do you expect?
Regarding ego and abuse in medical training,it is cultural thing and is more common in south west.

on a good day:



facilities and funding for who? are doctors the only health care providers in the hospital,you are not allowing others do their job by using ur political position to downgrade them,stunt their growth,developement and chances of putting themselves into a more important person in the health care team,govt fund ur training,pay you highest and you are still embarking on strike to press home your selfish demand,...untill every health provider enjoys a level playing field in health delivery,this disharmony orchestrated by kuti and sustained by NMA will continue to linger and will finally consume us all

Laalamed: Mind u ur families may be victims. It is even better let the fire consume all. The problew we do not appreciate our position life. To me cleaners are most impt workers in hospital.

on a good day:



the problem affecting my family or urs should not be our pry concern. our main concern should be how to make sure everybody does thier job and can be held responsible should anything go wrong. A doctor is an expert in diagnosis,with lil knowledge in pharmacy,nursing,lab and so on,a pharmacist is concerned with anything drug and is an expert in that area,with lil knowledge in diagnosis,nursing etc,s
the lab is also an expert,so is the nurse, then how can doctor be doing his main work,and at this time claim the one of lab scientist and nurses, and pharmacist,while they are there as expert, the
lil knowledge one profession has about the other profession does not make better than them,buh was only ment as an alternative should d concern professioj not be available,so my doctor friends needs to learn this,it is very simple.Every profession must be allowed to exist without bullying and threats from other professions

Laalamed: If doctors cheated to pass exams what about other professional. Corruption is affecting quality of graduates in nigeria. Just as you have half-baked doctors, we have poorly trained pharmacist, nurses, medical lab scientists etc. That is national problem.
Doctors are not highest paid civil servants. NNPC workers, soldiers and judges are highest paid govt workers.
In-service training is normal thing in civil service for all workers. Other workers do not pay for their training. Just apply for study, get approval and proceed. Nothing wrong in training doctors. All benefit from it. Do u know how much usa govt spend on health?
It is vital for govt to equip teaching hospitals to manage complex case not for malaria and typhoid. Then resident doctors would learn.

omonnakoda:
In service training is normal thing for all workers? What a ridiculous statement!! what is residency Please tell us
Residency is a training programme from A-Z,essentially an apprenticeship NOT a job. It is a training post on a FIXED TERM contract whose objective is to achieve a further qualification. Those residents at Igbobi will no get that experience anywhere else.This is done at great expense to the employer already incomparable to anyone else in government but the doctors are asking for more. There is no way one can compare training received in a training position to training given to workers doing their job. There is no comparison. Imagine an accounting trainee asking his boss to pay for ICAN for him is it not "vunny"??

The residents are JUST LIKE STUDENTS doing a degree THEY ARE NOT workers and only a tiny number of residents end up working for government.As things are government is already paying for most of their training
If government has money to equip hospitals for complex cases fine.But dealing with malaria and typhoid are a greater prioririty when resources are scarce as is the case in Nigeria.
NNPC workers are NOT government employees. Doctors earn more than other government employees including soldiers and judges

eaglechild:
Why do you come to a public forum to disseminate lies.
Resident doctors do the bulk of the work in any teaching hospital worldwide. Apprentices do the bulk of the work in most professions but the bosses supervise and still carry responsibility !!
Why then does a hospital get grounded when they go on strike if they are just spectators.
A senior registrar can run a unit in the absence of the consultant.
Do you wish for a matron to earn higher than a consultant neurosurgeon?
I really don't get your frustration here.

on a good day:



the problem affecting my family or urs should not be our pry concern. our main concern should be how to make sure everybody does thier job and can be held responsible should anything go wrong. A doctor is an expert in diagnosis,with lil knowledge in pharmacy,nursing,lab and so on,a pharmacist is concerned with anything drug and is an expert in that area,with lil knowledge in diagnosis,nursing etc,s
the lab is also an expert,so is the nurse, then how can doctor be doing his main work,and at this time claim the one of lab scientist and nurses, and pharmacist,while they are there as expert, the
lil knowledge one profession has about the other profession does not make better than them,buh was only ment as an alternative should d concern professioj not be available,so my doctor friends needs to learn this,it is very simple.Every profession must be allowed to exist without bullying and threats from other professions

omonnakoda:
Guy calm down and be civil. I will not answer questions about what I have not said so stop conjuring up stories.
What lies ? The issue here is not what residents do or do not do.
Residents do not have any patients in their own name but treat their bosses patients under his supervision and he is responsible for what they do.
What kind of contract do they have ? Is it a contract for service or for training? Is it a pensionable appointment.They are appointed for X number of years whether they pass therir exams or not and then they quit. It is an APPRENTICESHIP period!! Distinguish a resident from even a Hospital grade or a staff grade doctor whose contract is PERMANENT and pensionable or even the Hospital porter the same permanent contract till retirement.

Residents are trainees so I don't know what you are trying to say. Their contract is just like that of a House Officer,though longer, a training post all the same

eaglechild:
Don't spread false information.
The third MB exam is Pharmacology and Pathology which includes laboratory postings in all the essential laboratory medicine.
There is also a residency programme in Medical microbiology, Chemical Pathology, Histopathology, Haematology which are the core of Laboratory Medicine.
There is also residency in Therapeutics and clinical pharmacology.
I don't understand what you gain by misinforming the public.

eaglechild: Please do not modify my posts when you quote me.
That is cheap.
Half truths are lies. You said resident doctors are not workers, i corrected you on that.
If you refer to my previous post remember i said resident doctors have a limited time to complete their training after which they are expected to leave or continue if offered appointment.
This is unlike ANY OTHER medical profession employed in the hospital with a permanent practicing license.
That is why they agitate for better funding and equipment for their training which may span from 4 to 8 years depending on the specialty.

251. eaglechild: Quote Post

eaglechild:
Don't spread false information.
The third MB exam is Pharmacology and Pathology which includes laboratory postings in all the essential laboratory medicine.
There is also a residency programme in Medical microbiology, Chemical Pathology, Histopathology, Haematology which are the core of Laboratory Medicine.
There is also residency in Therapeutics and clinical pharmacology.
I don't understand what you gain by misinforming the public.