LOL Reverend, you sure got a good sense of humour. You should take up a job with NTA or Ali Baba.

so cool:

Ajisafe

I know pastor Abiara very well, and its a lie," no 419 guy came to him taking money from him at the time naira was more than american dollars" he is one of the most humble man of God out there. Pastor Abiara has been around for over 40 years, and I can tell you, he has only been rich for the past couple of years talkless of the time( when naira is more than dollars), Please people and even all other pastors you are talking about, you need to just cut it off, because The sin against the hollyghost is the only sin thats not forgiven, who are you to judge this man of God? If you pay tithes in a church and you don't want to pay, no one forces anything out of your pocket, God shall reward everyone. SO please for all of this pastors to be rich they have been through alot, I know much about Pastor Abiara when he used to walk the streets in the 80's ringing bells from area to area, no one said anything then, now he is a big man of God and wealthy one too, why the rubbish gossip? I met this guy before he is soo humble and gentle please name any other pastors but i will stand up for him anyday, even though he might not know who I am, But I know him very well.

Men of God are just people who say, "I am a man of God". They are not immune to the judgement, scorn, or praise of any person. I don't need special license to criticize them. Neither does anyone else.

Oh, you mentioned that it was a sin cthat cannot be forgiven. In case you didn't know, #1 criticizing a person is not a sin, #2 there are no sins (according to the bible) which cannot be forgiven.

@ All Doubting Thomases:

You will believe in miracles when you need one!!

Nuff said

Mystique:

@ All Doubting Thomases:

You will believe in miracles when you need one!!

Nuff said

I have prayed to be given the lottery numbers the day before the draw. If this miracle comes true I will let you know

Are miracles real??

For all those of you that don't believe in miracles, MAY YOU NEVER NEED ONE.

loaded.one:

Are miracles real??

For all those of you that don't believe in miracles, MAY YOU NEVER NEED ONE.

And if you do need one, then forget it as you wont get one!

Reverend:

And if you do need one, then forget it as you wont get one!

You cant get what u dont believe in

Mystique:

You can't get what u don't believe in

You can not get what does not exist! (unless you pay pastor Chris and Anita for an off the shelf, Nigerian type boxed miracle)

Reverend:

You can not get what does not exist! (unless you pay pastor Chris and Anita for an off the shelf, Nigerian type boxed miracle)

Wonder what kind of Reverend you are

Mystique:

Wonder what kind of Reverend you are

1. One that does not offer you something that he can not deliver!
2. One that will never ask you for money or donations!
3. One that will never judge you or call you a sinner for doing something perfectly natural!
4. One that will not pretend or fake miracles to obtain a following or income!
5. One that will not abuse your trust!
6. One that will live and let live!
7. One that will take you for a romantic meal, then back to your place for coffee and more
8. One that will not force you to wear trousers or cover your head in Church!
9. One that thinks pre-marital sex, masturbation, and covering your girl/boyfriend in whipped cream is OK
10. One that thinks life is short, so lets make the best of it and have a good time!
11. One that thinks there are only two guarantees in life , DEATH AND TAXES!

Yep, there are many more, but those are some of the important ones!

12. One that f*cks good.

Oh, i get it now

Reverend indeed. forget the name. it's not in the name. some people that call themselves 'pope' are headed for the hottest part of hell. The bible says, by their fruits you shall know them, what sort of reverend will say miracles do not exist

link=topic=40.msg515935#msg515935 date=1153744903:

Reverend indeed. forget the name. it's not in the name. some people that call themselves 'pope' are headed for the hottest part of hell. The bible says, , what sort of reverend will say miracles do not exist

OK Mr. 2 posts, glad you have taken the time to register with a new name to tell me that!

If the Bible says 'by their fruits you shall know them' I think that is probably true. You are a 100% fruit (fruitcake)!

I say it again, if miracles exist then I ask God to strike ' loaded.one' down dead with a bolt of lightning! If he writes again in this thread it must prove that they don't exist!

@ Reverend:

LOL, Datz a prayer request, not a miracle

I AM A FRESH MEMBER, i've never registered before. ths is only my 3rd post

Mystique, kindly ignore this so called Reverend. he's proven his ignorance on the subject matter at hand. Even my 4 year old kid knows the difference between a miracle and a prayer request. and since he's also shown he has a small mind, i would not bother responding to him again, NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS.
no need to belittle myself
chao//////

By returning here you have proven that miracles do not exist. I asked God to prove his capability by striking you down with a huge bolt of heavenly lighning!

I guess you are still around . Only your third post and you are already telling people who they should ignore.

This is a forum, not a dictatorship. How about telling us why you think miracles exist? Enter into dialogue!!

I am glad that your four year old kid knows the difference between praying and miracles.

Praying = asking for a miracle
Miracle = something you pray for that never come true

Your turn!

Gosh Zoltan, I'm really dissappointed! You of all people should be used to the typical christian behavior!

Ignore them and come have sex with me.

Mystique:

Do you want to join?

No thanx

Miracles?? Give me a break!! They are all fraudsters that prey on the weak and vulnerable.

The only miracle is that in this day and age people still believe in them

thats a stupid move my the NBC, banning miracles on Tv while allowing sango, mammy water and demons on tv , there should be a level playing field for ever religion, u cant allow magic on tv while on the other hand ban someone who claims he is a man of God from performing miracles, This is outragerous, the most banal i have ever heard of.;.

Healing:

I. There are three categories of illness:
A. Physiological: A physical illness; organic disease
B. Psychosomatic: Mental illness
C. Demon induced illness: When demons possess unbelievers, they can produce certain kinds of diseases. Also Satan and or demons are permitted by God at times to affect believers health from the outside. No believer can be indwelt by a demon.
1. Satan was permitted (from the outside) to buffet
Paul with a thorn in the flesh type of disease or pain. 2 Cor 12:7
2. Satan was responsible for Job's illness: Job 2:6-8. Permitted by God (since Job is a believer).
3. Satan uses demons to produce disease in individuals:
a. Acts 10:38, ", and healing all who were oppressed of the devil": These illnesses had as their source, the devil.
b. Luke 13:16 (vv 10-17) The cause of this woman's disease is demon possession. The doctors could not heal her because she was bound by Satan. Doctors today are baffled with demon illness. THIS IS NOT A PASSAGE AGAINST DOCTORS!

There are two ways of getting well according to James 5. Prayer here is the spiritual aspect, praying for the individual. The anointing of oil is medical help. This was doctoring in those days--see the parable of the Good Samaritan. (Luke 10:30-37) Oil was used medicinally. Don't read our 1970 modern medicine picture into NT times!

In this Luke 13 passage Christ heals. Note that in cases where demon possession causes illness the casting out of the demon cures the illness. This is TERMED healing. Matt 10:1, Mark 1:32-34, 6:13, Acts 8:7, 19:12.

In cases where demon possession did not cause illness--they are
just cast out--no mention of healing.
4. Satan uses Demons to cause deafness, dumbness (NOT ALL OF THIS IS CAUSED BY DEMONS HOWEVER) and paralysis. Matt 9:32-33, 12:22; Mark 5:5, Mark 9:17-18.
5. Satan is able to heal people by his power:
a. Matt 7:21-23 This passage describes a very prevalent situation today in the large "mass healing: meetings.
1) The use of "me, Lord, Lord" refers to the constant use of the name of Jesus
Christ in apostate meetings of the healing and tongues variety. 7:21.
2) "Many": Many are duped into believing Satan's power is God's power.
3) "prophesied, cast out demons, done many wonderful works (in thy name--in the name of Jesus Christ) This includes prophecies, healings, tongues--and other rank apostasy of this day.
4) "I never knew you, ": These are unbelievers.
5) "ye that work iniquity": Their prophecies, casting demons and MANY
wonderful works are called iniquity (sin). God's power is not sin--therefore this power by which they operate is SATAN'S.

For example: A demon-possessed faith-healer (unsaved) will be very nice, very well-dressed, very well versed in using the name of Jesus Christ repeatedly--doing everything IN THE NAME OF JESUS. Note the use of "in thy name" in Matt 7:22.

He will use emotion, he will take up a huge offering, he will have an empiricism (senses) approach. The people who come up to be healed may have demon induced illness, or they may not. But the demon possessed individual cooperates with the individual with demon-induced illness. When he shouts "heal" the demon comes out of the victim and the demon induced illness is no more. The whole crowd of simple and stupid believers or non-believers
watching shouts, "Praise God", etc. If the faith healing is not demon possessed--and the victim is not demon possessed it is purely psychosomatics--emotionally charged atmosphere which makes the person think they have faith--and think they are healed.
b. 2 Thess 2:9, ", with every kind of power and signs and lying wonders." This is Satanic power in the Tribulation, and its mystery of iniquity is already at work in the Church Age.

II. When someone gets well in a miraculous way it can be one of four sources"
A. God: God is the divine healer--and the ONLY DIVINE HEALER.
1. He heals sovereignly when He does and on the basis of grace and who and what He is.
2. God does not heal through a spiritual gift of healing, there is no spiritual gift of healing since the Canon of Scripture has been completed.
3. There is no bona fide faith-healing operating on earth. All are deceivers and frauds, very stupid, very sincere, and very much showmen in enacting their thing. SEE SPIRITUAL GIFTS CATEGORIES for scripture of why healing was a temporary spiritual gift.
4. When God heals directly He heals without:
a. Oil
b. Handkerchiefs dipped in the Jordan or some radio preacher's olive oil from the Holy Land.
c. Without someone commanding God to heal!
d. Without sending in your offering
e. Without some mumbo-jumbo deal called tongues
f. Generally this appeals to the toothless, brainless, simpleton, unthinking emotional crowd.
5. When God heals He heals on the basis of His character:
a. People don't get healed because they are "worthy" to be healed.
b. People don't get healed because they "have faith". Then the gimmick--they are told if they didn't get healed, "well, you didn't have enough faith."
c. In every case where God heals, it does not depend upon the faithfulness of the individual, the faith of the individual, the works of the individual, it depends upon the Sovereignty of God, not human approbation.
GOD DOES AT TIMES SOVEREIGNLY HEALS PEOPLE.
6. There is not "healing in the atonement" as taught by A.B. Simpson and others. Isa 53:5 in the Hebrew is "By His bruise we are drawn together." So the first of four reasons why people have a miraculous healing--is that the healing is directly caused by God.


B. Caused by Medical Research and Application: It seems to be prevalent among a certain type of 20th century believer to poo-hoo doctors, medical research, they are "going to directly depend upon God."
1. But they use hearing aids
2. They wear glasses
3. They have false teeth
Even Paul had physician friend (luke) with him at times on his travels--and Luke practiced medicine.

C. Caused by Satan: (unbeliever)
1. In cases of demon possession
2. Faith-healer in cooperation with the devil (whom he calls Jesus) heals in connection with demon-induced illness.

IV. Caused by a change of mental attitude: Psychosomatics. The frontal lobe gets upset, and it sends signals down to the body and that causes everything from hypertension to rash.
A. Now when the mind affects the body, and suddenly there is an emotional charged experience when a very determined and sincere type says you are going to be healed--it actually in some cases was only a change of mental attitude.
B. Here is an individual who is convinced mentally that they have a tumor, cancer, warts, an ulcer or something else.
1. They go to a faith-healer and he goes through His mumbo-jumbo.
a. First swingy hymns: Loud speakers with a big bass beat.
b. There is a great deal of repetition of the name of Jesus.
c. There is a great deal of emphasis on the "wonderful crowds" present, a lot of public relations, testimonials to prove that "god is working". Their motto is diametrically opposed to Christianity, they say SEEING IS BELIEVING, FEELING IS BELIEVING, TOUCHING IS BELIEVING, HEARING IS BELIEVING, SMELLING IS BELIEVING (Jesus filled the room with a heaven-scent fragrance). This is empiricism. Only faith unlocks the Word, first in salvation and then proper spirituality.
d. There is tremendous emphasis on the offering, and some project like a tent or truck to proclaim the Gospel.
e. And more singing, and maybe a verse or two on what Jesus did with handkerchiefs and oil.
f. Then the grand climax is the healing service.

All of this is pure deception, and phony all the way. It is the chief form of apostasy in this century. On the basis of Bible Doctrine don't get mixed up in it.

2. Now as the healing exhibit moves into high gear--he does his "formula" on the stage--and it is a sight deal all the way. The Word says, "We walk by faith, not by sight." 2 Cor 5:7, Col 2:6.
a. Suddenly the internal problems disappear--and they walk off the stage.
b. The emotional surge of the meetings has given them the adrenalin that they need to throw their crutches away.
C. Purely psychological: Doctors are saying that 60% of the patients that walk in the office and say, "Doc, I've got an organic problem, a physical problem", actually have a mental hangup. Get the mental hangup removed, and their physical body doesn't ache.

A woman who had her bones crushed in an accident, had the pieces put back together by the annointing of the Holy Spirit giving the woman strenght to walk and live again. You tell me it was a psycholigical phenomenon? Absolute nonsense!

Let those doctors first heal those who come to them with HIV before they come and begin to display their ignorance.

I know some of them doctors who were given up to die but whom God raised. Praise be to Jesus!

@donduke,

Very insightful input.


------------

@donnie,

I wonder if you feel that every illness/sickness is caused by demon spirits?

@donnie

I have personally witnessed a lot of fake miracles, particularly those carried out by Chris Oyakhilome and T.B Joshua.

I cannot still understand why there are so many pastors healing and raising people from the dead, yet Mortality rate in Nigeria is getting worse.

I cannot explain why these miracles are now branded and only performed in specific locations at specific times. Is that Christian? I mean, is that the way Christ did it?

@topic
Glory be to God almighty for giving NBC the courage to ban their asses
fake miracles=419

and the govt. is fighting 419 banning them and i think we need another 100 years to wipe out such mentality in our world

@topic,

I see nothing unusual with the ban by NTA. Afterall, they say nothing about televising miracles. Rather, they want the miracles to be verified! Is that too much to ask? Is it too much to print in the newspapers, the people who were supposedly healed with their names and addresses so those who live around them could testify to the truth or otherwise of the claims?

Even Jesus subjected His miracles to the verification of the authorities of His days. May I ask what these modern-days miracle healers in the name of Jesus got to hide?

Don't get me wrong. I believe in miracles and I have been a recipient of many. However, when we are being told about a particular manifestation of the Spirit of God which is contrary to what we see in the Bible, we are bound to ask questions. What I've seen on Oyahks "Atmosphere for miracles" is not what I see in my Bible. They are world's apart!

I believe in Miracles, only if they can be verified. The issue here is verifiable miracles. Nobody is against Pastor Chris and Co, All NBC is saying is that to put your miracle on air, it has to be a miracle that can be verified. That is you need a medical report from a reputable hospital of before and after, they do that in other part of the world, For me it is a simple issue. The Pastors if they could prove the realness of thier miracles should have just done that and they will still be on air. Simple and short

Every tree which the Lord God hath not planted shall be uprooted.