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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Atheism Is A Religion (15155 Views)
Atheism Is Frustrating. / Atheism Is A Religion: Kolooyinbo Explains. / Even Water Proves That Atheism Is False. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Atheism Is A Religion by DeepSight(m): 2:37am On Dec 08, 2010 |
Inesqor, if u have changed your views you should simply say so. The quote i sourced gives a patent lie to your assertions on this thread. You must realize that i am not responsible for what your own post reveals as a disturbing case of schizophrenia. I really can not imagine what it takes to begin to search for quotes from others to validate your perception of yourself. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by InesQor(m): 7:05am On Dec 08, 2010 |
@Deep Sight: [size=15pt]O shut up![/size] Is knowledge not progressive? You really had to go as far back as almost ONE YEAR to dig up something I said long ago and apply it to what I say now? I can even program a data-mining software to do that, and it would be more intelligent in its analysis, giving weight to data with more recent timestamps. Where's the intelligence in your own deduction? So after every post I have to say: This is what I used to think about a year ago but this is what I currently believe? Goodness gracious! Let me repeat it for you, since you seem to be hard of hearing or too slow to uunderstand: THAT is one reason I never returned to use the mavenbox ID when I was eventually able to, so as not to enable these kinds of questions on comparison. Are you not the one who said you have had a long spiritual journey in which you have been a Jehovah's Witness, a Christian and whatever else at some points? Does it make sense for me to quote you in one of those transient/turbulent phases and apply it to what you say at this current point? If this is how you practice law, then it is but a pity. Disturbing case of schizophrenia? LMAO this guy you must be high on that cheap weed you grow in your backyard again. Is schizophrenia (dementia praecox) not a condition that evaluates persona manifested within the same time period? Quoting other people is just a way of showing you that your own case of fatuous blindness to inferences is neither global nor inconsequential. Simple advice from me: stay off that weed stuff, it's killing off your brain. Soon there will be nothing left of it. But even in that case it would still be fun to see your literary gymnastics if you can drag yourself to Nairaland to provide some fun display for us though. LOL. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by DeepSight(m): 11:11am On Dec 08, 2010 |
OK, no vex. Speaking seriously though, granted that you say you have changed, have your views on what religion is to be defined as changed? P.S: My last post was rather off the handle: i must admit I was irked that your only response to a seeming contradiction was the plea that you have changed. Like I said, if you have changed your views on a particular matter, it is enough to simply state so - for we are all aware that the core of your religious views have not changed. Or have they? Since the core of your religious views have not changed (i.e: you still espouse the same christian views), it is a bit much to expect people to absorb contradictions by saying to themselves - "he has changed." In my case, you will note that the core of my views obviously changed, as whereas I was once christian, I am no longer such. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by DeepSight(m): 11:38am On Dec 08, 2010 |
toba: Haba. Just for sourcing a quote from Oga Inesqor which contradicts his arguments here? And when did you clamour that I should be the Religion Section Poster of the year? You certainly have not done that under the username "toba". . . could it be you you made that clamour under your other username here - jesus.: Confess. You sef don grab double personality. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by InesQor(m): 1:31pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
@Deep Sight: Whatever irks you is purely your own problem, dude. You dont need to infect the thread with it. And I dont need any apologies from you. If you want it in black and white, here it is: (True) Christianity IS a religion. In the popular fast-food Christianity (otherwise known as the WOF crew) of which mavenbox was a member, it is commonly [/i]touted that "Christianity is not a religion" and that it is "wrong" to be religious and all such nonesuch. mavenbox's post belongs in that very light. And for the record, the core of my religious views have changed as much as that of a Jehovah's Witness who became, say, a Grail Message adherent will change. It is rather hasty to say "the guy still believes in Jehovah so its the same thing". This is crystal clear so I don't know why you are trying to muddle it up. This case should be obvious to anyone who makes any effort to look closely. Compare my posts as InesQor to that of Joagbaje and ask if we [i]still believe the same core things viz a viz how spiritual things really work and the identity of believers with respect to their pastors and also with respect to Christ. You may also compare mavenbox's posts to that of Joagbaje and see if you will find significant constrast (this is because as mavenbox I was on my way out of all of the stuff already). e.g. Don't go quoting me in University days, using a statement from my primary school days that the square root of -4 is impossible. As I already said, "Whatever, dude. . ." |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by DeepSight(m): 1:35pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
Inesqor - Okay, no problem. You will agree though, that once a sharp difference is noted as I noted above, it is apt to point it out. All that you need do is to state - "I have changed my view" - and nobody will hang you for that. It is rather presumptuous to expect people to magically know that you have changed your view on a specific matter such as the definition of religion. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by InesQor(m): 1:54pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
@Deep Sight: Speaking objectively, can you confidently say your tone was not accusatory but was rather designed to enquire if my beliefset had changed? Did you not see the response by Martian that followed immediately after it, and then your own So I am not deceived by your supposed ab initio "I was only trying to find out" aspect on the alleged accusation. Once again I say, "Whatever dude". |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by InesQor(m): 1:55pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
@Mudley313: You are cracking me up here, man. LOL! |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by DeepSight(m): 1:59pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
InesQor: Of course it is only natural that when one notices such a plain contradiction, one would address it to you. Note again my comment after quoting it - Deep Sight: Which is a simple enough statement to make, no? Haba. I tire for de matter sef. E no worth am. I hope you are doing good. Cheers. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by InesQor(m): 2:11pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
@mudley313 (and @toba in absentia) All I can say is, "It can be hard to prove someone is the same person behind two IDs, and the moderators don't have a magical method of discovery. Even IP addresses may be spoofed by the same person, or may be the same for different people using same public IP address. User Agents and other information that can be tracked can also be spoofed if the user is desperate enough. Interesting detective work going on here but whatever is hidden will eventually be revealed. All this noise can only do little. Till then, toba is innocent until otherwise proven. All this identity palaver. No be posts we come read nii?" Come to think about it, viaro has been accused of being pilgrim because of his writing style and I know viaro is male. The only way the accusation can work is if you say pilgrim1 was male all along (hard to take if you know her at all). It is very possible Mudley is wrong but then, he/she may be right as well. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by harakiri(m): 5:48pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
Sometimes when i read threads like this, i wonder what sort of brain matter resides in the posters head. Does the poster even know what religion means? How on earth can Atheism be classified as a religion? My goodness! |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by jmaine: 11:56pm On Dec 09, 2010 |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by thehomer: 8:21pm On Dec 10, 2010 |
Enigma: I don't recall disowning the definition I presented. What I pointed out was that what you consider "evangelical atheism" is more like a movement than a religion. Enigma: You eventually did argue that it was a religion. Also, I didn't notice the successful flipping of the arguments against atheism being a religion. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by Enigma(m): 9:37pm On Dec 10, 2010 |
^^^ After initially providing and vaunting a definition as your "preferred definition" you later stated that the same definition was "inadequate"; see your post numbered 184; see also your posts nos 166, 178 & 191. I argued and proved sufficiently that evangelical atheism is indeed a religion --- according to your own supplied and preferred definition; see esp my posts nos 169 and 170 among others. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by thehomer: 8:02am On Dec 11, 2010 |
Enigma: Then you have simply destroyed what religion is generally understood to mean because according to you, communism, capitalism, socialism, civil rights activism, gay rights activism even feminism (women's rights activism) are also religions. If you agree with the above then I guess you're consistent in claiming it is a religion by indirectly redefining religion. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by Enigma(m): 9:15am On Dec 11, 2010 |
^^^ Pitiful argument! Your first task is to show that these things fit within your own, I repeat, your own definition of religion. Show how they do! If you can show that, then you would have to face up to the fact that you need to disown your own definition of religion and start again. If you want to argue that the definition of religion with which we are working is unworkable or possibly even nonsensical, well, it was you who supplied it. One thing I know is that it cannot be intelligently, objectively and honestly denied that evangelical atheism is within the definition of religion that you supplied and preferred --- as I have shown. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by thehomer: 10:22am On Dec 11, 2010 |
Enigma: You seem to be confused about the argument you are supposed to make. Enigma: You have attempted to show that "evangelical atheism" is a religion. I pointed out to you that based on such an argument, the other things I mentioned would also be religions. My point is that they are not religions. Enigma: I have denied this and given you a better classification which is "movement". And as I hope you realize, movements are not necessarily religions. If you wish to view it as a religion, for you to be consistent, you have to accept my list as being religions too. This was why my emphasis was more on sacred and on some types of practices. So you need to show how it is a religion and the others on the list not being religions by the same reasoning. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by Enigma(m): 10:42am On Dec 11, 2010 |
No, either you are missing the point or something else and I'll show you "something else" in a minute. The point is this: you provided a definition of "religion" which you said was closest to what you wanted to say: evangelical atheism fits within your definition of religion (please note the word "fits" because I will return to it in a minute); if you are unhappy that evangelical atheism fits within your definition of religion, do something about your definition --- or acknowledge that evangelical atheism is a religion. Now to "something else" and "fits": you took your preferred definition of religion from a source that had three other definitions; you rejected the other three definitions because certain things fit within them that you do not wish to classify as religions. As your preferred definition has now suffered the same fate (i.e. something, evangelical atheism, fits within it which you do not want) the honest intellectual course open to you is to discard your preferred definition as you discarded the other three, otherwise acknowledge that evangelical atheism is a . . . . Here are your own words: thehomer: And when you were challenged on why you ignored the other three definitions from your own source: thehomer: So you see, you have form when it comes to discarding definitions of religion that take in certain things that you do not want to be included. As your preferred definition now also takes in at least one thing, evangelical atheism, that you do not want to be included, your honest choice is to disown your own definition -------------- or accept that evangelical atheism is a religion on that definition at the least. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by InesQor(m): 4:27pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
LOL Enigma you are too much! |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by Enigma(m): 5:34pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
Na wa; I dislike that sleight of hand modus operandi; its parallel is the atheist asking the theist to prove the existence of God when he the atheist cannot prove that God doesn't exist. They say 'oh the burden of proof is on you'; well, that trick works with some but I say to them 'try the other one'. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by DeepSight(m): 6:08pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
Even "Theism" is not a religion. Then ATHEISM? ? ? ? |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by thehomer: 7:42pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
Enigma: I have explained to you why even your "evangelical atheism" is not a religion (i.e it does not fit) but more like a movement like the other movements I mentioned and I presented you with reasons why. You attempted to refute these reasons earlier and I pointed out the flaws in such an attempt here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-546562.160.html#msg7135668 Enigma: Please understand that you are now claiming that your "evangelical atheism" is a religion not me. This then means that you need to present reasons why it is a religion and the other movements I mentioned are not religions. I've also pointed out that if you wish to maintain that it is a religion, you need to also accept movements as being religions for your reasoning to be consistent. So some options open to you are for you to present your definition of a religion, or to clearly indicate how you can consider "evangelical atheism" to be a religion but not feminism. Or you could simply accept that movements are also religions. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by Mudley313: 7:43pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
[center][/center] |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by thehomer: 7:52pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
Enigma: The burden of proof is more on the theist claiming that his particular God exists. I agree that the atheist does have his own part to play, but the burden of proof is indeed more on the positive claimant. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by InesQor(m): 9:20pm On Dec 11, 2010 |
@thehomer: The burden of proof is not more on either side. If it is, please prove that it is so. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by thehomer: 12:38am On Dec 12, 2010 |
InesQor: There's an entry on this issue on Wikipedia. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
|
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by InesQor(m): 7:26am On Dec 12, 2010 |
InesQor: thehomer: When I made the post above, it was a weak attempt at presenting a paradox. I said "the burden of proof is not more on either side" and then contradicted myself by placing the burden of proof on you to prove that it isn't so. Lest some dudes rise in my face and start saying Im contradicting myself again, let that go. Honestly, I checked out the wikipedia entry after my post above, before your reply. "Ontologically positive claims" are those that would extend the current body of knowledge. Agreed, in the case of an argument for existence of God, the theist makes the ontologically positive claim because if the argument is proven sound, the "current body of knowledge" would be extended rather than contracted (if atheists can present a superior argument). But for the second half of the self-same definition you know the question I asked myself? Which side has the "far removed from conventionally accepted facts" argument? Is atheism the conventionally accepted fact, or is theism so? And when you speak about conventional acceptance, in what domain? |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by Mudley313: 10:53am On Dec 12, 2010 |
[center][/center] there's no evidence of a global flood, there's no evidence from jesus' supposed lifetime that he actually existed, there's no evidence of hebrews being slaves in egypt, there's no evidence that all of humanity came from just two individuals 6000 years ago, there's no evidence that snakes and donkeys can talk, there's no evidence that people come back from dying (especially if they've been crucified), there's no evidence that a person can live inside a big fish for three days, there's no evidence that jericho's walls were taken down by trumpets and the only evidence of your god's existence (like almost every other gods) is in ancient legends and myths on the pages of your religious texts and in the deluded minds of brainwashed followers of your jewish carpenter god |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by thehomer: 7:41pm On Dec 12, 2010 |
InesQor: Ok. InesQor: The arguments being made are not simply in support of theism but in support of a particular God. On the Christian side, accepting this God and the Bible as his word is quite difficult as some of Mudley313's examples show. e.g the story of Adam and Eve. Are we to take this as fact? How about the other stories, what are we to make of them? Conventional acceptance in the physical domain. This is one on which we can all agree. |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by UyiIredia(m): 10:44am On Feb 19, 2011 |
I'll also come back to this topic |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by Nobody: 2:16pm On Feb 20, 2011 |
enlightening topic. Read it from first to last. Apparently, it is lost on some people what 'religion' really is. I can see modern day use of english has rendered the word rather trite; it still doesnt remove from the fact the religion has codes, dogmas, books, principles, and often times a central figure of admiration/worship, except for buddhism (which though is only separated from Buddha with difficulty). When you have such settings, you have a religion. Atheism lacks such. Even if atheism were a religion, isnt it wonderful to be part of a circle that seeks to understand the world and throw light on its workings. . . .more like being part of a university. And is a university a religious institution too |
Re: Atheism Is A Religion by UyiIredia(m): 4:25pm On Apr 25, 2011 |
sauer: that's precisely the same way most ancient religions started out (Pythagoreans, Elusinerean mystics e.t.c). Now I have no gripe with Wikipedia. But my advice is for you to do some paper reading on this topic. There's a whole lot of stuff still left out on the Internet. |
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