OMO IBO: #Torres watch. . .anybody??

Torreswatch is scrapped. We're starting new watch - #TorreswatchunderRafa

0 good games in 1.

Ibime:

Torreswatch is scrapped. We're starting new watch - #TorreswatchunderRafa

0 good games in 1.

who had a good game tonight in the chelsea attack? none!

coogar, you do realise this is it for Torres.
He's got Benitez now.

surely, he must deliver now.

OMO IBO: coogar, you do realise this is it for Torres.
He's got Benitez now.

surely, he must deliver now.

he would deliver if the players behind him deliver!
all the attempted long balls chelsea aimed at him today were pathetic. chelsea attempted few early ball to him in the first half but it's clear chelsea lack that quality.....mikel obi needs to take a hard look at himself. what happened to mikel's creativity? it seems chelsea coached it out of him completely. in 2006, mikel was as good as scholes with delightful long passes - now, he's simply shyte at it!

how many players on the pitch cost 50 milla?

coogar: very disgraceful match.....
so much disappointed in mata, silva, oscar and aguero!

man of the match - ramirez(he's by far the best tackler in europe) - any midfielder that can keep toure/barry quiet deserves my accolades. ramirez is god!

Bender, Kehl and Gundogan turned Yaya and everyone in City to PS3 running them all over

FBS: how many players on the pitch cost 50 milla?

if that's the case, lets leave torres alone on the pitch against 11 players then. he's £50m, he should be able to face any bottom side alone by himself and win the match!

dayokanu:
Bender, Kehl and Gundogan turned Yaya and everyone in City to PS3 running them all over

not as much as ramirez did today - i was super impressed.....

When can we increase the number of coaches who have failed Torres, Who didnt understand Torres. Maybe in a few months time Rafa Benitez would realize the Torres of 2008 has gone and replaced by a new Fernandud.

All the midfielders in Europe dont understand him soon all the coaches wont understand him.
The same Mata coogar was telling us to play behind Fernandud last season is now the let down

Sometime last Spring

coogar:

it's roman abramovic - money is not the object.
i have always known torres is dynamite. thank feck for mata.
villas-boas biggest error was not playing mata behind torres.

dayokanu:
Sometime last Spring

and what's wrong with that statement?
where have i ever said mata shouldn't play behind torres since this whole torres topic kicked off? if mata then fails to match his blistering form, is that the system's fault or mata's own personal issues? so everytime messi does not score in a game then messi's position should be changed or it means messi should be sold/replaced? when exactly did you get your brains perforated, mr dayokanu?

coogar:

and what's wrong with that statement?
where have i ever said mata shouldn't play behind torres since this whole torres topic kicked off? if mata then fails to match his blistering form, is that the system's fault or mata's own personal issues? so everytime messi does not score in a game then messi's position should be changed or it means messi should be sold/replaced? when exactly did you get your brains perforated, mr dayokanu?

Mata tops the league in assist So what personal issues are we talking about? Was he assisting himself?

@ coogar

You can admit that mata could lose form and not perform as he is supposed to, that is, supply balls to torres right at his feet but would not want to admit that Torres himself has also lost his own blistering form as you so succinctly put it when describing Mata form.

Even when Torres is with the ball he seems clumsy like clusty the clown, he probably needs to rest and do some soul searching to rediscovver his form again. Playing him day in day out will only increase the pressure on the guy. It is now believed that Torres gets games because of RA. Simples. Most other coaches would have dumped him like hot iron regrdless of his price tag.

Note: Am not hEaping the dismal play of the team on Torres, just that, he is not helping himself and blaming everyone except torres just does not cut it. Team should not be playing for one person, last time a checked, football was a team sports. Everybody should work for every body.

coogar:

if that's the case, lets leave torres alone on the pitch against 11 players then. he's £50m, he should be able to face any bottom side alone by himself and win the match!

For 50 milla, I will mop all the streets of London and Lagos and naked too. For 50 milla Fernando should be working HARDER than every other player on the pitch. And should be performing his primary functions and very well too. In this he has failed so far. Folks will argue that it is because he has the wrong tool.
The bigger question though is, when other attackers were performing where was Torres?

Honestly, I think it is an insult to CFC folks to even discuss this guy again. It's a non-issue.

Ibime:

Torreswatch is scrapped. We're starting new watch - #TorreswatchunderRafa

0 good games in 1.

People talk about Drogba's poor first touch but I've noticed since #Torreswatch began that Torres's first touch is usually just as bad if not worse especially with his back to goal! How did he degenerate to this point?

dayokanu:
Mata tops the league in assist So what personal issues are we talking about? Was he assisting himself?

we are talking about today's match for effing sake - why do you like moving the post? i said mata was utter wânk tonight....same as silva, hazard and oscar. the people who are supposed to bring the creativity to the table all failed woefully! torres would not carry the ball from cech and score by himself just because he was bought for £50m. at the end of the day it's still 11 vs 11.

FBS:
For 50 milla, I will mop all the streets of London and Lagos and naked too. For 50 milla Fernando should be working HARDER than every other player on the pitch. And should be performing his primary functions and very well too. In this he has failed so far. Folks will argue that it is because he has the wrong tool.
The bigger question though is, when other attackers were performing where was Torres?

Honestly, I think it is an insult to CFC folks to even discuss this guy again. It's a non-issue.

that's because you don't make £1m a decade - it's natural to think you would capture the sun for £50m. do you really think £50m would mean so much for torres like it would mean to you? humans are insatiable. if you start making £100m a day from tomorrow, by march next year you would want a raise......your satisfaction is relative to the people in your immediate environment.

coded guy: @ coogar
You can admit that mata could lose form and not perform as he is supposed to, that is, supply balls to torres right at his feet but would not want to admit that Torres himself has also lost his own blistering form as you so succinctly put it when describing Mata form.

Even when Torres is with the ball he seems clumsy like clusty the clown, he probably needs to rest and do some soul searching to rediscovver his form again. Playing him day in day out will only increase the pressure on the guy. It is now believed that Torres gets games because of RA. Simples. Most other coaches would have dumped him like hot iron regrdless of his price tag.

Note: Am not hEaping the dismal play of the team on Torres, just that, he is not helping himself and blaming everyone except torres just does not cut it. Team should not be playing for one person, last time a checked, football was a team sports. Everybody should work for every body.

all i know is this -
everything i have mentioned on this thread in the last 18 months about torres has been vindicated. it was on this thread i first mentioned chelsea should play torres like benitez did. it was nateevs and i who then posted torres' first 50 goals at liverpool to highlight the kind of goals he love scoring - that his strength!

you cannot play hernandez like rooney......or play michael owen like drogba....
united's midfielder adapted to the strengths of the different strikers they have had in the last 2 years. the way we fed berbatov is different from the way we fed hernandez - why can't chelsea do the same? look at the goals hernandez scores - quick release from the deep that sets him with the last defender and the ones berbatov used to score. there's a stark contrast - that's the job of intelligent midfielders.....chelsea still want to play torres like they have drogba upfront - it's not going to work!

Coogar, I understand your need to support Torres and the points you so raised about the middle men but my point would be that frankly Torres is not the same player RA thought he bought. I am even willing to put it down to his knee surgery which has affected his pace and form. He used to play on the shoulder of defenders while at liverpool and depended on his pace a lot to bang in those goals. Right after his surgery, under Hodgson and Kenny, his form, pace and goal tally started to drop. Nowadays he totally looks so clumsy on the ball.

coogar:
that's because you don't make £1m a decade - it's natural to think you would capture the sun for £50m. do you really think £50m would mean so much for torres like it would mean to you? humans are insatiable. if you start making £100m a day from tomorrow, by march next year you would want a raise......your satisfaction is relative to the people in your immediate environment.

How much FBS makes is highly irrelevant because anyone including you will agree that 50 milla is no small money by any standard.
So if Torres is playing like a 1 milla pound player (and atimes even worse) it is because he himself is baffled as to why RA paid that much for him. I will like to know the guy who sold an out of date solar battery (FT) to Pyrios (RA).
Even Benitez can't do nada with FT's form now. Do you see how he is when on the ball?

FBS:
How much FBS makes is highly irrelevant because anyone including you will agree that 50 milla is no small money by any standard.
So if Torres is playing like a 1 milla pound player (and atimes even worse) it is because he himself is baffled as to why RA paid that much for him. I will like to know the guy who sold an out of date solar battery (FT) to Pyrios (RA).
Even Benitez can't do nada with FT's form now. Do you see how he is when on the ball?

this mentality has to change amongst football fans.
the price tag means nothing....hernandez at £6m, torres @ £50m, dzeko @ £27m, etc - does it then mean torres would have 8 legs and 2 heads or produce 800% more efficiency than hernadez? at the end of the day, it's one striker versus the other. a striker of 2000 naira can outperform an off-form ronaldo on any given day! messi's worth can buy the whole of celtic and yet celtic demolished them the other night - people who attach price tags with players are malicious....

torres didn't pocket the £50m, liverpool did!
whose fault is it that dalglish overpriced torres and chelsea were too gullible to match the price? if the values make so much difference then torres should be counted as 3-4 players, shouldn't he? even if he's priced at £699 trillion, he would still need the help of his team mates to perform. he would not score all by himself - football is a team game not about individual expensive players.

* www.football365.com/f365-says/8282384/16-Conclusions


'Can Rafa Benitez bring Fernando Torres back?'
was the repeated question before this game, as if
Benitez was a sort of horse whisperer who could
just say the secret magic word to Torres and it
would be 2008 again.

That's not really how this
works. Torres has been mediocre at best for
pushing three years, and scored all those goals
at Liverpool primarily because he had a team
perfectly suited to his strengths.

Of course he has
confidence issues and a few kind words from his
old boss may help that a little, but to expect
Benitez to cast a goal spell over his boy is at
best unrealistic, at worst delusional.


"It just doesn't seem to be him," commented
Ray Wilkins about Torres. Ever the diplomat, ever
the nice guy, it would be weird if Butch stuck the
boot in, but the truth is that this is Torres now.
It's pretty sad really - like a once-great
heavyweight stumbling around the ring, pushed
out there unwilling by a grinning Don King,
cracking open a briefcase full of cash just wide
enough to see what's inside.



I'm probably reading too much into this, but
there was a moment in the second half when
Torres was standing on the shoulder of the last
defender, waiting for a through ball, and he fairly
needlessly stepped forward into an offside
position. As it turned out the through-ball never
came, but it was almost as if Torres was looking
for an excuse, lest he miss another chance - 'Oh,
it doesn't matter, I was offside.' He's got whatever
the footballing equivalent of the yips is, and it's difficult to think what can make him better again.
At Chelsea, in any case - a change of scenery
might do him some good.

coogar:
even if he's priced at £699 trillion, he would still need the help of his team mates to perform. he would not score all by himself - football is a team game not about individual expensive players.

really?
so why have you been insisting that the other 10 players only play in such a way as to suit Torres?

anybody reading your posts could have been forgiven the club is now Torres FC.

wow, you are pretty revisionist nowadays. you mean you now agree with Wenger that the sum of the parts is now more than the individual whole?

you have been telling us that the manager and players at Chelsea are crap because they have a 50mill player whom they don't play to his strengths citing the chances west Bromwich create for strikers vs Chelsea.

so u now realise maybe the other 10players can be more than Torres? maybe it's Torres who needs to adapt to the group and not the group to torres.?

It is estimated that by 2025 you will be no more than six feet away from an ex chelsea manager.

4llerbuntu:
really?
so why have you been insisting that the other 10 players only play in such a way as to suit Torres?

because he's the arrowhead, duh! if chelsea have a striker worth only £10 in the market, they must play through him as well, that's the essence of 4-2-3-1!

anybody reading your posts could have been forgiven the club is now Torres FC.

but i have been vindicated - my posts is in line with the steps roman has been taking on chelsea!

wow, you are pretty revisionist nowadays. you mean you now agree with Wenger that the sum of the parts is now more than the individual whole?

agree with wenger? who is wenger and what has he gotta to do with my comments on this thread?

you have been telling us that the manager and players at Chelsea are crap because they have a 50mill player whom they don't play to his strengths citing the chances west Bromwich create for strikers vs Chelsea.

so how's this stance different from what i wrote above? have you lost your ability to comprehend? chelsea players must support torres - he cannot score by himself - taking the ball from cech and dribble all his opponents from his half of the pitch and score....

so u now realise maybe the other 10players can be more than Torres? maybe it's Torres who needs to adapt to the group and not the group to torres.?

the group must adapt to torres....
torres is the only striker - the arrow head. the body of the arrow all converge behind the tip of the arrow. the primary role of the other 10 players is to play to the strengths of torres----if you don't understand that simple language then i cannot help you!

Robbie Savage just summed up Torres in his BBC column.

Chelsea needs a striker more than oxygen right now.

The premiership isn't La Liga. A striker needs to be able to irritate defenders. Torres is not doing that. Least when Suarez or DD ain't scoring they still get under any defenders skin.

Even if we get the ball quickly to FT, to his right foot, in between the Defenders as it is being prescribed by the Torres Loyalist, his choice of play is atrocious to say the least.

We have to close the door on this issue.

Torres = Dead to me.

I'm gonna give Rafa a few more games and see if he can get something out if him.

Must be frustrating for Nando himself, he is probably clinically depressed.

coogar:
this mentality has to change amongst football fans.
the price tag means nothing....hernandez at £6m, torres @ £50m, dzeko @ £27m, etc - does it then mean torres would have 8 legs and 2 heads or produce 800% more efficiency than hernadez? at the end of the day, it's one striker versus the other. a striker of 2000 naira can outperform an off-form ronaldo on any given day! messi's worth can buy the whole of celtic and yet celtic demolished them the other night - people who attach price tags with players are malicious....
torres didn't pocket the £50m, liverpool did!
whose fault is it that dalglish overpriced torres and chelsea were too gullible to match the price? if the values make so much difference then torres should be counted as 3-4 players, shouldn't he? even if he's priced at £699 trillion, he would still need the help of his team mates to perform. he would not score all by himself - football is a team game not about individual expensive players.

Pardon my french but what then makes FT the prima donna in the team?
Yes, that's right, cos the dude cost 50 milla!
Blaming the sun, rain and the pink grass but absolving FT of any blame is pathetic.
Really, it's like I said earlier, FT's form is now a non-issue!

FBS:
Pardon my french but what then makes FT the prima donna in the team?
Yes, that's right, cos the dude cost 50 milla!
Blaming the sun, rain and the pink grass but absolving FT of any blame is pathetic.
Really, it's like I said earlier, FT's form is now a non-issue!

every football player in this modern era is a prima donna - no one should be earning £250,000 per week! that's 5 yrs salary of a brain surgeon!!! that being said, a player bought for £500 trillion will not win a game all by himself against 11 players. torres needs the support of his teammates - football is a team game not an individual sport like the 100m sprint!

El Guapo: Am In the Mood for Some Editorials

Rafa has often been described as a pragmatic manager, even labeled as outright negative on more than one occasion. What is clear with all his teams is that he prefers defensive structure over fluid attacking movement, he builds teams that are hard to beat and that are good on the counter. He is definitely a manager who builds from the back, which was shown fully when his 01/02 Valencia side won La Liga having scored just 51 goals in 38 games, this team were labeled as a negative side who let the opposition impose their play style onto the game, rather than the other way around.

There is no doubt that Rafa prefers a defensive approach, which begs the question; why would Abramovic see him as the right man for the job? It is no secret that our owner wants "sexy football", the problem is he will definitely not be getting that from Benitez. The Spaniard structures his teams into a very rigid 4-2-3-1 system which is hard to beat, his teams have never had the "wow" factor and aren't always the most attractive to watch.

Out wide he prefers a high work ethic over ability, he want's the wide players to keep their defensive positions and protect the full backs at all times. Dirk Kuyt was bought from Feyenoord as an out and out striker, he had netted 71 goals in 101 games for the Dutch club before moving to Liverpool. Benitez moved the natural goalscorer out wide because of his Ramires like work rate, he would run all day for the good of the team, always tracking back and helping out his full back. Riera who was not the most gifted attacking player by any means, was deployed on the left, again because of his work rate over all else. So expect this to happen at Chelsea, flair and attacking talent will take a back seat whilst industry come to the fore.

With his deeper midfield duo, he always promotes restricting and reducing space between the lines so that it is harder for the oppositions creative players to operate effectively and pull the strings. He drills the defensive responsibilities into his players so much so that they always know what they should be doing in any situation. Essentially, when defending he will want his 4-2-3-1 turn into 2 banks of 4, with the wide attacking players dropping back into a rigid defensive shape, looking a lot like a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1 depending on how he wants the counter attacks to progress. Xabi Alonso was perfect for his system, because the Spanish international's long passing is pretty much immaculate, making setting up counter attacks a fast and precise action, benefiting Torres hugely.

When Rafa thinks his sides are defending to his liking, he then lets them become increasingly more expansive, this usually comes in the 2nd to 3rd season under his management, but i highly doubt he will be here that long, with both Jose and Pep casting huge shadows over the bridge.

What really worries me is his confidence in the zonal marking system, Rafa implements this style of corner defending at all the clubs he manages. We have heard time and time again from pundits such as Gary Neville about how ineffective zonal marking is, due to the fact that the opposition can always jump higher than you with a running start (which I fully agree with). Regardless of what we think of Neville, there is no doubt that he is an excellent pundit and definitely knows what he is talking about. I have to say this is a genuine concern, it didn't work under Scolari 4 years ago and I cannot see it working now.

Inevitably we come to Torres.

I'm sorry to say that I honestly cannot see Rafa revitalizing Torres' career, he will more than likely be out of the door by the end of the season, if not in January.

I Promised Some Postives and Negatives Lastnite. . .

The Positives

- Rafa will give us back that defensive resilience that we were once renowned for
- He will give us more structure when we defend and also when we attack
- He will sort out our defensive midfield and issue strict positioning instructions, which is good because the positional awareness has severely lacked in the last month.
- I have no doubt that we will prevent us from leaking goals at the rate we have been during our annual horror November.
- Possibility of improving Torres (however slim it may be)
- He is much better at working with a squad than actually building one himself, and like i said above he pretty much has a full new squad assembled to tinker with.
- It definitely looks like he will only be here short term

The Negatives

- Judging by Rafa's 'set in stone' tactics, don't count on seeing the 3 headed mythological beast MAZACAR for a while, unless of course he feels they have the work-rate and defensive qualities he is looking for.
- It is fairly likely that Ramires, Bertrand and Azpilicueta will be featuring on the wings (square pegs scenario for the umpteenth time).
- Do not expect to see attractive football and big scorelines, we will be grinding out results from now to the end of the season (could be seen as a positive in some respects)
- Zonal marking!
- Torres will be given even more time as first choice, just when we though he would finally be benched for Sturridge
- Our creative players movement will be restricted somewhat due to the strict structure he gives his teams.
- He never sways from his tactics, or at least he hasn't in the past. He lives or dies by them and is known for being stubborn when it comes to different tactical approaches, which was perfectly illustrated by his brief stint at Inter Milan.
- All in all, this seems like a step in the wrong direction to what Roman actually wants - "sexy football"

There are also some potential off-field negative consequences to his appointment;

- No Plastic flags to be given out at the Bridge ever again (I joke guys, I joke)
- In all seriousness there is a high risk that the fans as a whole will not take to the Spaniard at all. This could cause a big rift between club and fans if not handled perfectly by the club, even more so if Rafa is unsuccessful during his brief tenure.
- Added to the fact that we will have to put up with his hissy fits and constant petty arguments with other coaches, it's safe to say controversy is rife at the moment as far as CFC are concerned!

Carefree & KTBFFH!

source pls??

coogar:

every football player in this modern era is a prima donna - no one should be earning £250,000 per week! that's 5 yrs salary of a brain surgeon!!! that being said, a player bought for £500 trillion will not win a game all by himself against 11 players. torres needs the support of his teammates - football is a team game not an individual sport like the 100m sprint!

so all he has to do is wait for his team mates to perform before he does anything?
Besides, where was he when his team mates were actually performing? picking his nose?
Wonderful job innit?

The team also needs Torres' support!!

Everybody must, I repeat must work for Torres, Torres does not have to work for anybody, not even himself in a sport regarded to be a team sport.SMH

He can't even stand still and score like the beach ball that scored against Liverpool some seasons ago.

Starting to think this reason coogar is giving for Torres' inability to deliver is really wearing thin.

I mean, i find it absurd that 10 others should play for only one person.
I might be slow but I realise that modern football has moved on from that stereotypical no.9 who waits for everything to be presented on a plate.
Robin van Persie, Luis Suarez, Carlos Tevez, Sergio Aguero, Shane Long, Demba Ba, Stephen Fletcher to mention a few all put in a shift and get stuff going for themselves.
Even classic poachers like Javier Hernandez know they have to drop deep and develop other skills that will help the team.
What does Torres do apart from scratch his bum each time he's easily dispossesed?

No matter what anyone says, Torres has Mata and Hazard playing behind him.Even me with my K-leg will put in a decent shift with those two behind me.
So I'm not sure that excuse buys anything.

FBS:
so all he has to do is wait for his team mates to perform before he does anything?
Besides, where was he when his team mates were actually performing? picking his nose?
Wonderful job innit?

torres is the arrow-head for feck's sake - how would the ball get to him without the help of his team-mates? i ask again - would torres take the ball from cech and dribble his way to opposition box and score all by himself? is this after(O.J.O.)??

coded guy: The team also needs Torres' support!!
Everybody must, I repeat must work for Torres, Torres does not have to work for anybody, not even himself in a sport regarded to be a team sport.SMH
He can't even stand still and score like the beach ball that scored against Liverpool some seasons ago.

you watched the game against city - please tell me, how many chances did chelsea create for torres from open play? i kept hoping chelsea were going to float a ball in torres' direction just once but it never happened and yet we just expect him to score.......

you watched united's game this weekend - with the crap midfield, how many goals have van persie and rooney scored in the last 2 league fixtures? how are they going to score when the chances are far and in between? without anderson's power drive and the killer pass, would chicharito have scored? when was the last time any chelsea midfielder fed torres with precision like that?



this is what we are asking MAZACAR to do - if it was hazard on that ball, he would either carry that ball to the edge of the box and fire a shot or keep dribbling till he gets tackled by a defender and the chance would be lost. hernandez is not a superman - he relies on his midfielders to play to his strength and feed him the ball to score. until chelsea start doing this, torres would not score goals! football is a team sport not about individuals.......