I biliv in gender equally .I can't stand women dat wants men to do evrithng 4 dem and I hate to see men maltreating their women ,it makes me feel bad .I biliv dat wat a man can do a woman shuld be able to do it



But women shuld know dat gender equality wuld deprive them of some thngs too,

I'm all about equal opportunity, but I don't believe men and women are equal. Heck, I don't even believe all men are equals, and same goes for women. However, people should be given equal opportunity to achieve their goal in life regardless of gender.

As for romance and dating, I feel way more comfortable being in a relationship where clear-cut gender roles are not advocated. I have zero interest in leading anyone.

@ shymmex

I have been reading your posts and honestly, I think you are really self-centered and conceited. You ought to open your mind to receive more knowledge, because you are on the same level with those poor dudes stuck inside Plato's cave.

michelin89: @ shymmex
I have been reading your posts and honestly, I think you are really self-centered and conceited. You ought to open your mind to receive more knowledge, because you are on the same level with those poor dudes stuck inside Plato's cave.

Looooool!!

My dear michelin89, I'm not self-centered and conceited - I'm an eccentric guy, and I also believe in practicality... And I'm very open-minded, but I probably go about it the wrong way..

I'm here to learn from people, and I learn everyday.

I don't understand how you wish to learn if you are so stuck on being dogmatic. You need a more a scientific approach to issues and life in general. I know you don't think induction is a valid learning process as it leaves a lot of/too many questions unanswered, but even scientists know this (talk of Popper) and they humbly claim that any theory is valid until it's not confuted as wrong.

I don't want to be dragged into this gender issue. I already made that mistake when I posted on the thread about atheists. But you need to know history before you can make conclusions on something of universal importance like this.

Just to make it clear, the original feminists have never wanted to compete with men. All they wanted was a society that valued the differences between men and women and which didn't label women as inferior because they were different from men.

No man is the same as another, no woman is the same as another, therefore a man and a woman can never be the same. Feminism had its principles based on INDIVIDUALISM and not on GENDER. Being a woman like Sandra doesn't mean I must live and do the same things Sandra does and the same thing goes for Mark and Andrew. I am for the individual any time any day, but unfortunately there are people like you who want to put everybody in a category and by that category dictate what they can/must do and what they can't/mustn't do.

I don't believe in the fight for feminism being triggered by women's emotional inadequacy either, because the movement wouldn't have worked if they hadn't found the support of men, who then ruled the economy, politics and the society.

Let's use logic. If instead of saying women we said people, I don't think anyone would have problems with the statement: We as people living on the planet Earth are equal.

michelin89: I don't understand how you wish to learn if you are so stuck on being dogmatic. You need a more a scientific approach to issues and life in general. I know you don't think induction is a valid learning process as it leaves a lot of/too many questions unanswered, but even scientists know this (talk of Popper) and they humbly claim that any theory is valid until it's not confuted as wrong.

I don't want to be dragged into this gender issue. I already made that mistake when I posted on the thread about atheists. But you need to know history before you can make conclusions on something of universal importance like this.

Just to make it clear, the original feminists have never wanted to compete with men. All they wanted was a society that valued the differences between men and women and which didn't label women as inferior because they were different from men.

No man is the same as another, no woman is the same as another, therefore a man and a woman can never be the same. Feminism had its principles based on INDIVIDUALISM and not on GENDER. Being a woman like Sandra doesn't mean I must live and do the same things Sandra does and the same thing goes for Mark and Andrew. I am for the individual any time any day, but unfortunately there are people like you who want to put everybody in a category and by that category dictate what they can/must do and what they can't/mustn't do.

I don't believe in the fight for feminism being triggered by women's emotional inadequacy either, because the movement wouldn't have worked if they hadn't found the support of men, who then ruled the economy, politics and the society.

Let's use logic. If instead of saying women we said people, I don't think anyone would have problems with the statement: We as people living on the planet Earth are equal.

Thank you, sister - I understand where you're coming from, and I agree with everything you posted... I'm not stuck on being dogmatic, I'm just passionate about certain things, and most times I get caught up in the moment.. I'm always open to learning new things, as no one is a fountain of knowledge - education is a continuous process.. I don't even see myself as being intelligent, knowledgeable, nor educated enough - hence, why I engage people in discourse everyday on NL..

I'm a provocateur by nature, and I'm also eccentric - hence, why most people think I'm rigid, and dogmatic... I just love asking questions, and getting different opinions... I believe there's no way I can learn, if I don't question everything - I take in...

As for the topic - I sincerely believe in gender equality... Heck, I even think women are naturally more intelligent by nature than men... I created this thread to ask questions, and engage women who believe in feminist ideas - what they really think about the points I raised..

I wanted to look into the correlation between the rise in feminism, high divorce rate, and the lack of morals in today's world.. I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way, but I wasn't trying to knock women for being independent - but going overboard with the idea, is just a trend that's becoming problematic in the new world..

I wanted to look into the correlation between the rise in feminism, high divorce rate

Feminism has contributed to creating awareness in women and this in my opinion is very positive. It's just like seeing children becoming adults and making decisions for themselves. Just like our parents don't always like what we choose to do, even our spouses can have the same opinion about some of our choices. But since a married couple decides to come together, they can also decide to part ways. I believe feminism has had very positive effects in the marital lives of million of women, but there are some women, not by virtue of their new recognized rights, but by the vice of their characters, have caused the downfall of their marriages. Nevertheless, we mustn't forget the roles some men play in all this: they are obstinate and don't want to change and at the same time they are trying to reverse the irreversible. The society is changing, it has always been in continuous change and movement, but in certain periods it just took a sudden turn and boom, everything went upside down in a flash of light. Talk of the French Revolution, Industrial Revolution, WWI & WWII and before all these, the two British Revolutions and the American Revolution.

They are called revolution for a reason. The world used to revolve according to a certain trajectory, until one day, some stood up and decided that that trajectory would have taken a different turn. All these Revolutions, despite being cited as extremely important to the creation of the world we are living in today, still produced terrible damages.

Feminism was indeed a revolution. It helped a lot of women and it also helped a lot of men. But nothing in this world creates effects without including side-effects. Given how the world is becoming more and more dynamic, men need to start moving along or they find a woman who is on the same wave-length with them.

Men expect, by virtue of what they have been taught, submission from any woman that walks on the street, but women also know that it's not all men that match their standard. These days women are becoming more and more choosy in their quest for a partner. I for example don't like men who are less intelligent than me, because I've realized that, for the type of men I like and the type of relationship I want, I need a man who is very challenging intellectually or else I'd end up despising him.

Divorce occurs when the couple is not compatible: the man expects automatic submission from the woman and the woman doesn't understand why she should allow this man to rule over her life even though she's cerebrally more endowed than him. That woman might have a feminist mindset and doesn't place men and women in categories with instructions on how they should live their lives, or maybe she's just naturally independent or the man is not up to the task.

Honestly I don't think feminism can determine whether one's marriage can work or not, because marriage is about two people, not about one person (the men) and a society. Men need to stop thinking of feminism as the cause of their unsuccessful unions because they made the choice to get married to that woman and they placed unrealistic expectations on that same woman.


, and the lack of morals in today's world

If you attribute moral decadence to women taking control over their sexuality, I'm afraid I don't agree. Sexual revolution was very very important. For the first time, women broke away from their roles of wives and mothers to become women, because that's what we are. We are people and we own our bodies.

Before I write more, can I know examples of these lost moral values?

michelin89:
Feminism has contributed to creating awareness in women and this in my opinion is very positive. It's just like seeing children becoming adults and making decisions for themselves. Just like our parents don't always like what we choose to do, even our spouses can have the same opinion about some of our choices. But since a married couple decides to come together, they can also decide to part ways. I believe feminism has had very positive effects in the marital lives of million of women, but there are some women, not by virtue of their new recognized rights, but by the vice of their characters, have caused the downfall of their marriages. Nevertheless, we mustn't forget the roles some men play in all this: they are obstinate and don't want to change and at the same time they are trying to reverse the irreversible. The society is changing, it has always been in continuous change and movement, but in certain periods it just took a sudden turn and boom, everything went upside down in a flash of light. Talk of the French Revolution, Industrial Revolution, WWI & WWII and before all these, the two British Revolutions and the American Revolution.

They are called revolution for a reason. The world used to revolve according to a certain trajectory, until one day, some stood up and decided that that trajectory would have taken a different turn. All these Revolutions, despite being cited as extremely important to the creation of the world we are living in today, still produced terrible damages.

Feminism was indeed a revolution. It helped a lot of women and it also helped a lot of men. But nothing in this world creates effects without including side-effects. Given how the world is becoming more and more dynamic, men need to start moving along or they find a woman who is on the same wave-length with them.

Men expect, by virtue of what they have been taught, submission from any woman that walks on the street, but women also know that it's not all men that match their standard. These days women are becoming more and more choosy in their quest for a partner. I for example don't like men who are less intelligent than me, because I've realized that, for the type of men I like and the type of relationship I want, I need a man who is very challenging intellectually or else I'd end up despising him.

Divorce occurs when the couple is not compatible: the man expects automatic submission from the woman and the woman doesn't understand why she should allow this man to rule over her life even though she's cerebrally more endowed than him. That woman might have a feminist mindset and doesn't place men and women in categories with instructions on how they should live their lives, or maybe she's just naturally independent or the man is not up to the task.

Honestly I don't think feminism can determine whether one's marriage can work or not, because marriage is about two people, not about one person (the men) and a society. Men need to stop thinking of feminism as the cause of their unsuccessful unions because they made the choice to get married to that woman and they placed unrealistic expectations on that same woman.

I agree with most of the things you posted, but I'm not really a fan of linear thought process.. I believe there has to be a balance in everything; anything that's linearly extreme is problematic...

, and the lack of morals in today's world

If you attribute moral decadence to women taking control over their sexuality, I'm afraid I don't agree. Sexual revolution was very very important. For the first time, women broke away from their roles of wives and mothers to become women, because that's what we are. We are people and we own our bodies.

Before I write more, can I know examples of these lost moral values?

Since women broke away from their roles of wives and being mothers, the family values have suffered.. Bear in mind that children are naturally more connected to their mothers, than their fathers - and once they're neglected, they become estranged... Hence, why we have a generation of children raised by music videos, video games, peer pressure - and other vices...

I think this link will give you a clearer picture of what I was talking about: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-30342/Working-mothers-risk-damaging-childs-prospects.html

shymmex:
Since women broke away from their roles of wives and being mothers, the family values have suffered.. Bear in mind that children are naturally more connected to their mothers, than their fathers - and once they're neglected, they become estranged... Hence, why we have a generation of children raised by music videos, video games, peer pressure - and other vices...

I think this link will give you a clearer picture of what I was talking about: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-30342/Working-mothers-risk-damaging-childs-prospects.html

I understand what you mean, but at the same time, there is a problem in the way you view this issue and women in general. When you see a woman, immediately you see a potential wife, a potential mother and a potential mummy. In your mind these four figures must always come together in one way or the other. You don't believe a woman can be complete without being a wife, a mother and a mummy; as a wife she must be a mother and a mum to her kids; as a mother and a mum she must also be a loving wife to her husband; and most times these three entities of herself just over shadow her feminine nature.

If you, when you look at a woman, saw the person (woman) she is first, and then the wife, the mother and the mum she can/could become through the choices she makes in life, you'd be able to understand her and why she also makes mistake. From your posts I have learnt that women are not allowed to make mistakes. They have been over idealized and placed upon a huge responsibility, such as the lives of their kids, so much that their womanhood becomes a secondary matter, which is very wrong. If a woman does not take awareness of her womanhood, she'll never be a good wife and she'll never be a good mum. The fact that a woman can bear kids (motherhood), doesn't mean she can also grow these kids ("mummyhood".

Women give birth and later give those kids out for adoption but they are still mothers, but they are not mummies. Women become surrogates for rich couples, they become mothers but never mummies to these kids.

If you stopped to observe how the female psychology has evolved and is evolving, you'd see that woman are now trying to separate these fours parts of their nature so that they can choose which one to be, because not every woman born into this world can be a mother, a wife and a mum. There are some women who'll never become mothers because of infertility yet they are some of the best mummies a child can ever have.

Women are choosing and you can either accept the choice and respect it or reject it but still respect it because you can do very little to change things.

I believe the growth into womanhood is more complex than we have always thought. Somehow we've been taught that it's only natural for women to one day get married, give birth and love their children with all their life. And that is so false.

Some women don't want to get married, neither do they want to give birth or when they give birth. they are not interested in taking care of their kids. Are they less of a woman?

You can call them irresponsible mothers or wives but they are and will always remain women.

I'm a woman, and maybe one day I'll become a wife and a mother. And if I become a mother, I'll also work hard to become a wonderful mummy to my kids but that doesn't mean that I'll stop being a woman that I am. For my husband to have chosen me, it's because he liked the woman in me and that's why he said: this woman will make a fantastic wife and mum to our kids.

If we didn't try to force the idea of "natural" on women, I strongly believe, less kids would be unhappy today. But no! Every woman must become a wife and a mother. Fine, but when she decides she doesn't want to take care of these kids, what are you going to do?

ti-ebe:


are you kidding? under what rock have you been living that you've not seen this?




I kinda agree with you.




the man who wants to be worshipped by his wife must do things that are worth worshipping. He cannot be a fake guy and expect his woman to lick his shoes soon as he steps into d house. In the days when husband worshipping was the ish, it was cos the husbands were the all in all of the house. the man goes out all day, works himself to the ground in the farm or where ever, comes back home sweaty, provides her with yams, provides her with a few cowries for that wrapper she's been asking for, still has time to mend the leaking roof and even goes to mend a broken wall in his parents place and when the day was over, he still had time to give 'it' to her! of course he was worthy of worship! no be now wey after working 8 - 4 (same hours she's worked) he comes to sit home and expects the worship his fathers got. you wanna be worshiped? earn it like yo daddy did!

Now, i have to be careful how i put my views here. I believe men and women are equal. . . but not in the way women think. for instance, a woman cannot have the physical strenghth of a man. even elementary science will show u that. so, in that, men win women 1-nil. however, not many men can beat a woman in her managerial skills! that's why women are 'home makers'. If women are allowed to use those same home making skills in d office. . . so in that, women are better. now, by the time u sum up the weaknesses and strengths of men and women, they kinda even up. so, I think instead of fighting for equality ( and then still expecting the man to hold open d door for u or stand up for you to sit), know your strenghths and roles as men and women, rock them well, and know you're not less or more than anyone.

are you a woman or a man? cant tell from your post. . .

Gender equality was created for woman who were abused before. Its not meant to kill the nation but its meant to help. A real woman will always know that no matter how eqaul she is with her man, she is still a woman. A woman can do it all. Be excellent at work and at home. Ladies to make things easier, you can work 9 to 5. Get a house help and a nanny. But make sure no one cooks for your boo. We can do it sisters but please never ever make that man of yours feel useless because man's ego bruise easly

I don't want to sound like a male chauvinist, but what nature did not make equal, NO Beijing conference can. I stand to be corrected.

Some times I listen to people and I wonder! Its no doubt that some women are more intelligent and cerebrally gifted than most men yet it doesn't mean that the womanis equal to the man! Equality here doesn't mean the man is superior, it just depicts roles in d gender strata! Reverse this roles and see how weird the world would get! Maybe the ladies should start holding the door open for the man to pass!(Just saying) obama is the president of america doenst mean he is the most intelligent in the whole country, of course in naija we knw GEJ is not even close to average intelligence yet he is the head! Same goes for the babe talking about despising a man because he isn't on the same IQ level with her is just plain demonic! Nature gave the man leadership role in the family whether u like be albert einstein! U are supposed to use ur big head to build him nd ur home and use stealth in making him buy into your ideas! Don't ever assume u are d head in d home wen the man is alive. The man is the head yes the woman is the neck, the neck turns the head. If women understood this wahala for no dey! Problem is dey want to become men!

cycober:
Here is one for the feminists. According to one no nonsense person, "if all men died and only women remain on earth, life as we know it will grind to a halt. The world will literarily turn to stone age era over night.
But if all women died and only men remain on earth, "men will simply invent artificial pu.ssies (already invented), and artificial wombs, and move on with life :

2. As another no nonsense person said, "every block/brick, great building, road, bridges, cars, train, planes, ship, e.t.c e.t.c we see around are designed and built by men"

So to feminists, stop deceiving yourselfs with this equality bul.sh.it, common logic should tell you its totally crap. I will believe in equality when i see women start to work in coal mines, on the front line (army), construction workers (labourer) e.t.c

Though since ur post was in 2012,i hope you are still alive. Men caused the problems we are having in this world.

cycober:
Here is one for the feminists. According to one no nonsense person, "if all men died and only women remain on earth, life as we know it will grind to a halt. The world will literarily turn to stone age era over night.
But if all women died and only men remain on earth, "men will simply invent artificial pu.ssies (already invented), and artificial wombs, and move on with life :

2. As another no nonsense person said, "every block/brick, great building, road, bridges, cars, train, planes, ship, e.t.c e.t.c we see around are designed and built by men"

So to feminists, stop deceiving yourselfs with this equality bul.sh.it, common logic should tell you its totally crap. I will believe in equality when i see women start to work in coal mines, on the front line (army), construction workers (labourer) e.t.c

who knows whether women invented and have been investing things, and men forcefully took it from them through oppression. Una weh done ooo

How can you compare extreme feminism with the abolishment of slavery?

I'm trying to help women out, and proffer a solution to the high stress level they go through... I'm not the enemy here, I'm trying to help.

Help by telling your fellow naija men to buckle up... women are not complaining. QED

tiebe:


are you kidding? under what rock have you been living that you've not seen this?




I kinda agree with you.




the man who wants to be worshipped by his wife must do things that are worth worshipping. He cannot be a fake guy and expect his woman to lick his shoes soon as he steps into d house. In the days when husband worshipping was the ish, it was cos the husbands were the all in all of the house. the man goes out all day, works himself to the ground in the farm or where ever, comes back home sweaty, provides her with yams, provides her with a few cowries for that wrapper she's been asking for, still has time to mend the leaking roof and even goes to mend a broken wall in his parents place and when the day was over, he still had time to give 'it' to her! of course he was worthy of worship! no be now wey after working 8 - 4 (same hours she's worked) he comes to sit home and expects the worship his fathers got. you wanna be worshiped? earn it like yo daddy did!

Now, i have to be careful how i put my views here. I believe men and women are equal. . . but not in the way women think. for instance, a woman cannot have the physical strenghth of a man. even elementary science will show u that. so, in that, men win women 1-nil. however, not many men can beat a woman in her managerial skills! that's why women are 'home makers'. If women are allowed to use those same home making skills in d office. . . so in that, women are better. now, by the time u sum up the weaknesses and strengths of men and women, they kinda even up. so, I think instead of fighting for equality ( and then still expecting the man to hold open d door for u or stand up for you to sit), know your strenghths and roles as men and women, rock them well, and know you're not less or more than anyone.

I love this. A true Man has spoken not all these men blinded by hate.

I agree with most of the things you posted, but I'm not really a fan of linear thought process.. I believe there has to be a balance in everything; anything that's linearly extreme is problematic...




Since women broke away from their roles of wives and being mothers, the family values have suffered.. Bear in mind that children are naturally more connected to their mothers, than their fathers - and once they're neglected, they become estranged... Hence, why we have a generation of children raised by music videos, video games, peer pressure - and other vices...

I think this link will give you a clearer picture of what I was talking about: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-30342/Working-mothers-risk-damaging-childs-prospects.html

so absentee fathers don't?