patches689:


Casspir Mk6 is from 2011
http://survincity.com/2013/10/south-african-mrap-casspir-mk-6-chassis-ural-2/

First post on this forum: Aug 6, 2013

I am refering to a 2016 Denel variant.

Henry240:


This is not a nice thing to say. He's also not Croat, i know this. You are now deliberately sabotaging this thread by some of your actions.

Sorry, I am not sabotaging this thread. Patches is Croat, everybody here knows that and you should not support deliberate deception of identity on this thread. Patches is insulting the intelligence of all of us by creating a fake Croatian citizen moniker to fool the rest of us here, and its a unfortunate that you are supporting that just to have 'peace' on this thread...some integrity of character does not seem to matter to you?

Why should a South African continue to post comments here claiming falsely to be a Croatian and nobody has the courage to tell him to stop the deception? Have we all lost our sense of decency?

It's dissappointing that you Henry will support open dishonesty. If I have to stand up to you on this, trust me I will. Better watch your personal integrity and don't let Patches stain you.

Denel is taking product development advise from us on this thread without giving us credit for it.

patches689:


The trend amongst NATO is towards one Universal Cammo.

I think its safe to assume they know what they are doing

They dont. American soldiers rejected the first camo because they realise it will make them easy target in jungle and desert. It worked only in urban city. The NATO uniform planners are idïots

patches689:


I am not Croat, I gain would gain nothing from creating a fake account.

You are a born liar, a chronic fraudster, nobody on this thread belives you....fake Croatian.

jln115:

Im not talking about Identification, you don't like a universal camo pattern.

I like it, but not one camo. Must be two or three. One jungle green camo. One desert beige-cream-brown camo. One unnecessary grey urban city camo like the former universal camo favoured by US home based force called National guard. If what you mean by universal camo is one single camo for all terrains, I hate it, because it will never be effective to blend with all environments.

patches689:



No,

I was discussing the Badger.

You were the one who dropped to level of insulting and arguing. Not me.

Now, where is that apology?

You are the one to apologize to me. Your weblinks do not say you have the most modern mortar in the world because the Americans have the most modern mortar 81mm with 15 km range and guided shells. Your main gun fires linkless ammo, the American 30mm chain gun has been doing it since 1970s. So what apology do I owe you? You also lied that Badger os Green Demon of Afghanistan, but Green Demon is Rosomak IFV. You keep lying more by using a second moniker claiming to be a Croatian citizen who stumbles on internet and with no reason begins to defend South Africa like a madman as if his body, soul, spirit is 100% South African, yet you claim it's not you.


You Patches = Croat .....everybody here knows it !!!!

Explain why a random Croat man in a white race non-english speaking nation of Croatia in far Eastern Europe is ready to die defending black race ruled South Africa on nairaland.
.

chkil:
a documentary on some algerian special force


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqL9W5xg4yI

Are you a soldier? Just curious to know.

patches689:


Im not doing any arguing.

Just posting pictures and links, as the thread suggests

Thats a big lie, you and I were both arguing about Badger IFV and the whole world can see that clearly. Now you deny it, why do you tell clear lies like a shameless man? Honestly, I wonder who you really are in real life, are you an ex-con? Your level of lying amazes the world.

croat:


Badger/Patria AMV is one of most modern APC in the world and its after all nicknamed The Green Demon by the Taliban.

.

O brother Patches please stop stop stop ALL THESE LIES, please.

Badger IFV/Patria AMV have never seen war action anywhere, the Green Demon of Afghanistan war is the KTO Rosomak M3 a very differently empowered variant with ANTI-RPG NET protection, polish COMPOSITE ARMOUR protection and 40MM AUTOMATIC GRENADE LAUNCHER as offensive area weapon....your Badger IFV has no composite armour and no auto grenade area weapon.

Please stop loading lies upon lies on this thread, pleeeeaaase stop it Patches !!!

Patchesagain:


What are you going to do when i post links for every single claim?

Are you going to aplogize?

Ps: look up the NATO definition before i am forced to embarras you

Go ahead sir. I am waiting for proofs of your wild claims. Thanks.
.

MikeCZAR:


Non..sense.

Exactly ! For $5 million per vehicle the Badger IFV has only a 30mm cannon and one tiny size light machine gun, I agree with you sir, the Badger is nonsense.

Henry240:


These are Air Force guys, not army.

The new camo service I.D. confusion that I worry about is already happening

jln115:

guessing you're not very happy about this?

Only worried about confusion. When all servicemen put on bullet proof vests it will cover the chest service-arm I.D. Troops can't identify who's navy or who's army anymore. I think the I.D. should add two more, upper arm band and frontal head gear/helmet. See that officer briefing his men, bullet proof vest covers his chest I.D. but upper arm and shoulder I.D. visible.

Henry240:


I'm referring to gun mounts, not hatches. Your question was on gun mounts, it can carry a GPMG and a secondary armament. Hence i said similar to the GAZ Tigr. It's also the same height as the Tigr.



This variant has a much higher ground clearance than the old model. Aesthetically, it also looks very nice, importantly, it provides protection against Armour Piercing rounds. The company should have gone for the VN-4 type tires, with that size, this vehicle could serve both Police & Military.



Nigeria is a very huge market. If each state, including the FCT purchases 10 each for local police, that's 370 vehicles. FG complements with a sizable order of 50, 420 vehicles. There's also Immigration, Customs, Prisons.

Thanks for the update.Even the older variant has two roof hatches as in pic below, you are correct. Roof gun mounts for new variant in militarized mode, one small PKM 7.62 LMG forward, one super small AGS-30 AGL rear, will be good firepower combo.

Those extra grade tyres you mentioned above will be added later this year, Proforce is reading your comment. Have you noticed Denel is taking product improvement advice from this thread?

Patchesagain:


What are you going to do when i post a citation for each of my claims?

Badger is the most advanced, simple undeniable fact.

You need to move beyond your anti-South Africa obsession.

You need to move beyond your obsession with telling lies and deceiving innocent readers on this forum.

Post your citations' website names not weblinks to clutter this thread, thats what I did with defenceindustry daily. Give name of source, people can google it.

One single T-72 tank will destroy one hundred Badger IFVs in two hours, and the Badger cannot fight back or defend itself. Badger IFV fails to meet NATO standard of basic modernity.
.

jln115:

I agree with 99% of your post, but just one correction, the Ingwe can penetrate 1000mm of RHA even after a single layer of reactive armour, which in other words means it can basically penetrate any Tank on the planet.

Ingwe ATGM penetrate composite armour Abrams tank? You cräzy?

T-72 with Kontak ERA amour is not penetrable by even the nrw tandem warhead ATGMs, talk less of the old Ingwe that will probably miss target like Mokopa.

Nigerian army has 52 Palmaria artillery with 155mm gun having dual purpose, it has both direct and indirect fire mode and range 24 km, then has target image high powered magnification sights. Any Ratel with 5 km range Ingwe will be demolished 7 km away by Nigerian Palmaria in direct fire mode.

You think Nigerian army is same as Lesotho army?

"With the new uniforms, all arms of the Nigerian military would now wear the same camouflage uniform and have a common system of identification.

What would differentiate soldiers now would be the tags on the left side of the chest, signifying whether the soldier is an airforce, army or naval officer."

-CAS, NAF HQ.

Guys, anything new or different from our photos already seen here? If yes, please post the new photos, especially the left chest service arm I.D.

Henry240:


It actually does have 2 gun mounts. It's hatch is built similar to the GAZ Tigr.

I see only one roof hatch in the photo. Did you notice improved ground clearance in this new variant? Use double size of current rim and tyres, you get even more ground clearance. Use heavy thread mud-terrain tyres. Minimum roof gun mount should be two, big enough for one forward 12.7mm HMG, one rear 30mm AGL. Militarize its looks and armaments if you want more sales, Congo DRC is a huge APV market unexplored.

patches689:


Ok, so you are still talking about firepower?

What does that have to do with modernity?

Project Hoefyster started in early 2005 - making it just over 10 years old

Configuration is a question of doctrine, nothing else. Our doctrine is developed for African wars, based on African war experience... those imports are designed for Russian and Chinese wars based on their war experience

And in terms of modernity:

- 30mm CAM-GUN is the most advanced in the world
- 60mm mortar is the most advanced in the world
- MCT turret is amongst the most advanced in the world
- flat-floor mine protection is a cutting edge technology
- No other African country has BLUFOR trackers
- MATIS thermal imagers are cutting edge

Finally: BTR = 2006 (prototype)
BMP-3 = 1987
Type-07P = 2006
Badger = 2010 (prototype)

So, my statement remains correct: The Most Advanced in Africa

Stop starting arguments for the sake of it, the one you are making now does not even relate to my original post!!

Stop attaching lies to your comments and stop trying to force false information down our throats.


Which source says Badger 30mm cannon is the most advanced in the world? Show us the source and stop making up things.

I could also claim the newly developed Ukrainian ZTM-2 is the most modern 30mm cannon in the world because it came into market around 2014.

BMP-3 model 1987, nobody buys that anymore, its no longer produced. The current modern variants BMP-3F and BMP-3M is what buyers are now getting.

Badger, 2010 ? Badger is based on Patria and the Patria project started in Finland in 1995...that is 21 years ago.

Project Hoefyster started in 1997.....google it on defenseindustry daily website, the Badger IFV is a 20 year old obsolete concept design, there is nothing modern about a 20 years ago concept.

The extra floor protection is basic MRAP technology and nothing is cutting edge about it, it actually made the Badger to lose it's amphibious capability, how is that for your fake 'cutting edge tech' claims?

Badger 30mm cannon has low rate of fire per minute and is incapbale of rapid fire at a high rate.

Your 60mm mortar is the most advanced in the world? Mortar is mortar dude, or your own Badger mortar fires nuclear shells? Which source proves your mortar is better than all other mortars in the world ?

No other African country needs to have your own exact type of trackers and thermal imagers, their IFV is made in a different country and have their own electronic instruments, why must they have your own type?

Badger mortar carrier is not an IFV, it has no cannon, NATO standard says IFV must carry cannon at least 20mm.

Badger missile carrier is not an IFV, it has no cannon, and fails to meet NATO standard of 20mm cannon minimum.

Only the Badger with 30mm cannon and 12.7mm machine gun is an IFV, all other Badger types or variants are not IFV.

Firepower has to do with modernity just like onboard equipment/instrumentation. NATO standard says 20mm cannon minimum for IFV and it says for modern IFVs, anti-tank missiles to defend itself against enemy tanks. So the lack of combined cannon + missile capability has removed the Badger from the NATO standard definition of a modern IFV.

One single T-72 tank will destroy one hundred Badger IFVs in two hours, and the Badger cannot fight back or defend itself. It's one of the worst IFVs in Africa for the price of almost $5 million per Badger.

Sorry to burst your bubble. No offence intended. Just wish you stop posting lies upon lies. Thank you.

Henry240:
Nigeria LAPV


Very beautiful vehicle.

How many gun mounts on the roof hatches?

ssaengine:


Sadly for you its not soldiers who decide that they want to fight. They have been ordered to do so because Nigeria faces the problem of Boko Haram. No Boko Haram such groups are running around in SA. So until that day the majority of SANDF pics will be training based.

SANDF has near ZERO war experience. FACT.....and your army can be easily robbed with bread knife.

Msauza:



South African ratel at work. They couldn't choose any other MRAP but the mighty ratel

Ratel is obsolete 1980s tech and design

Msauza:



Look at this stupidd? Do you know what is a pepper spray? I know that in Nigeria you don't use such things that's why you wouldnt know what are they. It doesn't matter how huge and well built you are but when it comes to a peper spray you will fall and ask for mercy.

Okay, now you are telling us SANDF soldiers armed with rifles are stüpid enough to open their two korokoro eyes for thieves to spray pepper inside while they watch the spray like mumus

kizfaz:
you are still far from d explanation i need ooo.... why did yhu pple give up d battle ground for home to have good times with your wives.

Fear of armed robbers, SANDF fears ordinary bread knife, talk less of guns. So much for their so called training....LOL....they claim training is > experience....so where is the training now?

can now be confirmed that the incident happened in Darfur, Sudan. A platoon of SANDF soldiers were on their way to relief another platoon on deployment when they were ambushed by unknown attackers. The soldiers were robbed of their bullet-proof jackets, all their rifles and other equipment, as well as three 4X4 vehicles. Luckily the attackers did not make off with their RG-32 (Mamba) armoured vehicles. A technical team of the SANDF has been sent to Darfur to investigate the incident.

What is worrying is that this is the second time that this has happened and if they were ambushed, the question is asked what happened to their counter-ambush immediate action drills?

http://www.aafonline.co.za/news/sudan-sandf-patrol-%E2%80%98robbed%E2%80%99-questions-asked

.

[size=15pt]
.
SANDF soldiers robbed with knives...

Lose rifles, ammunition in their own army base inside South Africa...

Tied up with their own army boot laces, no need of ropes !!!

South African army defeated on homesoil by knife armed robbers

https://www.enca.com/south-africa/knife-wielding-attackers-rob-rifles-free-state-military-base

[/size]

.

croat:


Koji si ti pacijent... Provokator.

Patches, you live in Gauteng where you are "grasping for straws".

Patchesagain:


Irrelevant.

In terms of ships seized and pirates arrested NATO has plenty more experince

You personally counted how many pirate/oil thieves vessels Nigerian navy siezed in the last 10 years?

Patchesagain:


- 60mm mortar area weapon
- 30mm is an area weapon

- ingwe atgm, variant armed with 12.5mm

We have a different doctrine which calls for specialization over versatility - a doctrine developed over 25 years of AFRICAN warfare

I also fail to see how firepower relates to modernity

My statement was that it is the most advanced is thus still correct

60mm mortar Badger variant has no cannon .

A 30mm cannon is not an area weapon, it is a point weapon. Stop telling lies to confuse readers.

Missile variant with 12.5mm has no cannon, 12.5mm is a machine gun not cannon. By NATO standards, an IFV must carry minimum 20mm cannon.

Too many things wrong with Badger IFV weapons configuration and obsolete design concept of 20 years ago under project Hoefyster. Nothing modern or modernity inside that Badger that you wont find in the new generation IFVs in Africa like the Type 07P, BMP-3, BTR-4. Stop misinforming people my friend.

Patchesagain:


Yeah, lets just ignore all the ops they have had off somalia

The whole world was involved in anti-piracy ops off coast of Somalia including many non-NATO navies like Sweden, Australia, Cyprus, Malta, Ireland, China, India, Iran, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, Russia, Thailand, and Saudi Arabia etc , navies of the whole world. NN is almost alone in the Gulf of Guinea/ Atlantic ocean. Angola is buying Su-30 Flanker jets instead of buying OPV.

Ghana

patches689:


most advanced in africa

Nope.

Badger IFV has no area weapon, no automatic grenade launcher, no missiles, and the missile version has no cannon. How is that most advanced in Africa when Equatorial Guinea is buying latest version BMP-3 and others have BTR-4E that combines cannon + auto grenade + missile launcher on one single vehicle?

Stop misimforming people for the sake of your personal ego.