@Dankol

The last part of your 'write up' and where is Dankol sef

5. The Fallacy of Equivocation: If we assume that everyone has the same definition of such words as God, Jesus, revelation, inspiration, prophet, miracle, etc., we are committing a very simple logical fallacy.

Na for this write up. That should go to you and Muslim has nothing to do with the above.

       #1 When a Muslim says, "Christians and Muslims worship the same God," he is committing the fallacy of equivocation. While Christians worship the Triune God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Muslims worship a Unitarian deity. Obviously, they are worshipping different Gods.

Yes we all know that we do not worship same God as long as you worship three in one God which has not been preached by ANY PROPHETS IN BOTH OT and NT. Jesus in the gospels differentiated himself from God, told us that God sent him and even prayed to God to save him. He even said plainly that he was sent and that he came to do the will of the creator that sent him and that the person that sent him is greater than him.

Also since you are equating Jesus to God, how did Jesus not know the Dday when he is God and even why is sin against Holy Spirit has no forgiveness but that of son of man has no forgiveness? You should also be bold enough to tell me why the person you called God that is Jesus is unaware of season to the the extent that he went to a fig tree expecting to see fruit on it but was quite unfortunate that he could not see and had to curse the fig tree

You could still tell me why Jesus prayed to God more than two times, begging God to waive the cup of death for him

Hope you are aware that they wanted to kill him someone and when he learnt that, he didnt walk openly again.

Make I rest small sef because tori too much


       

#2 When a Muslim says, "We believe in Jesus too," he is committing the fallacy of equivocation. The "Jesus" of the Qur'an is not the Jesus of the Bible. Islam preaches "another Jesus" (II Cor. 11:4). The Jesus of the Bible is God the Son who died on the cross for our sins. But the "Jesus" of the Qur'an is not God the Son and he did not die on the cross for our sins. Thus it is erroneous for Muslims to tell Christians that they believe in Jesus too.

Thisis the verse you are trying to quote:

2nd corinthians 11 v 4: For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Now, christianshave been guilty of that because they have been portraying another Jesus different from the one known. Jesus made it plain that he didnt come to die but to preach but you claimed that he came to die for your sins.

Jesus made it plain that you must keep the commandment in order to gain paradise but you twisted it that one must be born again by believing that he is the only begotten that died for your sin thereby being your personal savour and lord.

Jesus said that God is greater than him and its God that sent him and e could not do anything without God's permission but you turned it and claimed that he all knower, all doing and that he is God.

Jesus made it known that he didnt come for you but to the house of Israel but you turned his message that he came to save you when he was not even a christian.

He was also sent with a revelation/gospel but you corrupted his message, dividing it into gospels.

wetin again sef, ok I remembered. He claimed to have been son of man but you errrorneously claimed that he is the only begotten son when we have other begotten sons as well.

So tell, who is following the real Jesus?

       #3 When a Muslim assumes that Christians have the same concept of revelation as Muslims, he is guilty of the fallacy of equivocation. According to Islam, the Qur'an was written in heaven by Allah and has no earthly sources. When we prove that it comes from earthly sources, this threatens the inspiration of the Qur'an.

Haba, may God forgive these authors. It was revealed but compiled by man and no verses were missing. Everything happened to be intact 1400 years ago till now. and can that be said of the bible?


   

    On the other hand, the Bible does not claim that it dropped out of heaven one day. It openly quotes from earthly sources. It uses pre-existing sources without any difficulty whatsoever. Thus while the Qur'an is threatened by historical sources, the Bible is actually confirmed by them.

Does that proves divine inspiration of the bible? Quran still stands test of time and Allah challenges all of you.


     

  #4 When a Muslims tells you that the word "Allah" has only one meaning: "the one, true, universal God," he is assuming a fallacy. The word "allah" has many different meanings.

Okay

           

a. It can be used as a generic term like the English word "God." Thus it can be applied to any god or goddess regardless if if a true or false god is in view. (ex. The "Allahs" of Hinduism.)

Nope. Not any god or goddess but the term "Allah"was used for God.

The same word can be found in Rigveda Book 2 Hymn I verse II in Hindu scripture and also in Sikhism, Gurunanak Sahib is being referred to God as Allah.

It has been even been established that northenr christians call Allah God and even Allah exist in Arabic bible.

           b. The Nation of Islam uses it to refer to Wallace Dodd Ford, Elijah Muhammad, and Louis Farrakhan as "Allah" and teaches that all black people are "Allahs."

We have known the fact about NOI just like you have Jehovah witness, catholic etc.

           c. It has been used by some Christians in Arabic speaking countries as a generic name for the Holy Trinity.

It could not be true. It is being used for a unitarian God called Allah. Ask them and they would tell you that Allah means God as it being used in the bible.

         

  d. It was used in pre-Islamic times by pagan Arabs to refer to the moon-god whowas the father of al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat.

I have corrected this couple of times. The above mentioned are idols in which Allah made it know thatthey were devised by you people.

53:19 Muhsin Khan: Have you then considered Al-Lat, and Al-'Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs).
53:20 Muhsin Khan: And Manat (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the other third?
53:21 Muhsin Khan: Is it for you the males and for Him the females?
53:22 Muhsin Khan: That indeed is a division most unfair!
53:23 Muhsin Khan: They are but names which you have named, you and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow but a                          guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to them the Guidance from their Lord!

e. It is used by Muslims to refer to their god.

Point of correction God or Allah and not god. Do you want us to go to John 1v1 and see the God used therein?

       Islam and Christianity do not worship the same God. The Christian worships the Holy Trinity while the Muslim worships a unitarian deity.

Early christians do not worship trinity and do not believe in it because prophets never preached that.

6. The Fallacy of Force: The Qur'an commands Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims and apostates (Surah 5:33; 9:5, 29).

The above happened during warfare when muslims were oppressed, banished from their homes and when the oppression was too much, Allah ordered them to fight but not to trangress limit and that if they seek peace, they should make peace wit the enemies as Allah does not like transgressors.


       

Some Muslims use a false analogy to answer this argument. They respond by saying, "Well, what about the Crusades? You Christians use violence just like Muslims."

You may ponder on that and OT killings, mass murder etc

       It is logically erroneous to set up a parallel between Muslims killing people in obedience to the Qur'an and Christians killing people in disobedience to the Bible. While the Qur'an commands Jihad, the New Testament forbids it.

This is being unfair as both sides have been experiencing killings in disbedience to the books. Allah values life and told muslims not to kill.

7. The Fallacy Of Confusing Questions of Fact with Questions of Relevance: Whether something is factually true is totally different from the issue of whether you feel it is relevant. The two issues must be kept separate.

Like?

Examples:
       #1 When a Christian argues that some of the beliefs and rituals of the Qur'an came from pre-Islamic Arab paganism, the Muslim will deny it at first. But as more and more evidence is given, the Muslim will often do a flip-flop and begin arguing, "So what! Didn't you Christians get Christmas from the pagans?" The Muslim has now committed three fallacies:

I have talked on this now, why the repetition?  Islam has no link with paganism but yours was establshed on same and most of your festivals attests to that.

           a. The "So what!" argument is dealing with the issue of relevance, not fact. You must stop the Muslim at that point and ask him, "Since you are now dealing with the issue of whether the pagan origins of the Qur'an are relevant, does this mean that you are now agreeing to the fact of the pagan origins of Islam?"

Quran has no pagan and you could provide if you have. I am disagreeing to the lies that it has pagan origin.

           

b. The Muslim has also committed the fallacy of equivocation. The Bible is not threatened by historical sources. It freely refers to them and even quotes them (Acts 17: 28). But the Qur'an denies that it has any earthly historical sources (Surah 25:4-6).
           c. He also committed the fallacy of false analogy. The Bible and the Qur'an are two totally different books. The inspiration of the Bible does not depend upon the fate of the Qur'an because what Muslims claim for the Qur'an is not what Christians claim for the Bible.

I tire o. Repetition. Yes they are different books because Allah revealed the Quran and a Gospel but not revelations/gospels

8. Phonic Fallacies: The phonetic sound of a word should not be used to twist its meaning. For example,
       a. Some Muslims try to prove that the word "Allah" is in the Greek New Testament because of the Greek word alla. But while the word is pronounced "alla," it only means "but" in Greek. It has nothing to do with the Arabic "Allah."

Repetition. I have settled that of Allah. Read again please. my fingers dey pain me
Could you provide the verses and we read your 'but'?


       

b. Some Muslims have claimed that the word "Allah" is in the Bible because the Biblical word "Allelujah." They then mispronounce the word as[b] "Allah-lujah!" [/b] But "Allelujah" is not a compound Arabic word with "Allah" being the first part of the word. It is a Hebrew word with the name of God being "JAH" (or Yahweh) and the verb "alle" meaning "praise to." It means "praise to Yahweh." The Arabic word "Allah" is not in the word.

How did you arrive at this?
     

c. The same error is found in the Muslim argument that the word "Baca" (Psa. 84:6) really means "Mecca." The valley of Baca is in northern Israel.

Are you sure of your quote? Do we need to go into that? Goread your book well and would want you or any of your folks to provide rebuttal and we go into details.


     

  d. Some Muslims have tried to go from "Amen" to "Ahmed" to "Muhammed!" Such nonsense is beyond belief.

Very UNTRUE.

9. "Red Herring" Arguments: When a Muslim is asked to defend the Qur'an, if he turns around and attacks the reliability of the Bible, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the Crusades, etc., he is introducing irrelevant issues that have no logical bearing on the truthfulness of Islam. He is trying to divert attention from Islam to other issues.
       Furthermore, he is assuming that if he can refute the Bible, then the Qur'an wins by default. If he can refute the Trinity, then Allah wins by default. But this is logically erroneous. You cannot prove your position by refuting someone else's position. The Bible and the Qur'an could both be wrong. Muslims must prove their own book.

The assumptions here are wrong. Have you been able to prove the contradictions, parallel passages, irrelevant words, missing verses in your book?

10. Straw Man Arguments: When you put a false argument into the mouth of your opponent and then proceed to knock it down, you have only created a "straw man" argument. Muslims sometimes either misunderstand or deliberately misquote the arguments Christians give them.
Example:
       Some Muslims have built a "straw man" argument that claims that we teach,

    "The Qur'an teaches that Allah is the Moon-god and that Muslims knowingly believe in and worship the Moon-god and his daughters."

It has been debunked times without number. If Muslims worship the moon, what would they worship in daytime when the sun is up. There are verses where Allah talked about sun, moon etc and they are not godssssssssss

   

   They then knock down this "straw man" argument and claim victory. Of course, we never said such nonsense. What we have said is that while the Qur'an claims that Allah is God and Muslims think they are worshipping the one true God, in reality they are worshipping a false god preached by a false prophet according to a false book.

Read your post up and use that for your faith and book.

Conclusion

At last. My fingers dey pain me sef

The average Muslim has been deceived by Muslim apologists who use such logical fallacies without regard to reason, fact or honesty. But there are many Muslims who want to be rational in their religion and thus have an open mind to rational discourse. Once they see that their arguments are based on logical fallacies, they will be open to the wonderful news that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for our sins on the cross.

Wetin I go talk again sef. You would have seen that the write up happens to be a hogwash as most of the stamenet are lies and couldnt be proven.

A word is enough for the wise. Spend your time to read about Islam and Quran and educate yourself rather than ferreting lies.

@Noetic2

Is ANY part of islam contradictory to ur beliefs, conscience and convictions?

If it does, I would not have turned to Islam when 'others' failed.

I never meant to be disrespectful to babs, that was just my way of teasing him

.


Yeye dude. You are my friend along with Davidylan. I am not bothered at all

Salam brother. I cry anytime I listen to Surah Ar-Rahman. Allahs tells How man has been ungrateful despite proving everyting FREE and which of His signs would you deny?

@Noetic,if your guy has taken time to peruse that write up,he would have been that his accusations hold no water as it couldnt be accepted with a pinch of salt. Most of the statement go to you and ur folks in which you have been displaying when answering or debating in which good example is where one of you asked 'why did Allah allow His book,the bible to corrupt,y cant he guide it'? The point is that his copy and paste is all ruse that was not substantiated and some parts exposed the relationship between christianity and paganism. My rejoinder to the last part of his post would come SOON

i hereby nominate olabowale as the one and only:

baba JIHAD of nairaland.

Yeye dude

@Dankol

Thanks so much for the 'informative' write up from:

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/fallacies.asp

and

http://www.upholdingtradition.com/apologetics/islam/logic.htm

Christians must be prepared to answer the typical objections made against the Gospel. Most of the objections are based on simple logical fallacies. The following is a list of some of the most common fallacies used by Muslims.

Okay bros

     

  Note: The average Muslim does not know that his arguments are logically erroneous. He is sincere in his beliefs. Thus you must be patient and kind in sharing with him why his arguments are invalid.

Yes, patience just like David, Todak, Noetic etc has been displaying here

1. The Fallacy of False Assumptions: In logic as well as in law, "historical precedent" means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been verified. The old tests the new. The already established authority judges any new claims to authority.
       Since Islam came along many centuries after Christianity, Islam has the burden of proof and not Christianity. The Bible tests and judges the Qur'an. When the Bible and the Qur'an contradict each other, the Bible must logically be given first place as the older authority. The Qur'an is in error until it proves itself.
       Some Muslims violate the principle of historical precedent by asserting that Islam does not have the burden of proof and that the Qur'an judges the Bible.

Tell me why the Bible must be given first place when it was not REVEALED to non of the prophets? Since it must be given first place, who was it revealed to and the proof?

2. Arguing in a circle: If you have already assumed in your premise what you are going to state in your conclusion, then you have ended where you began and proven nothing.

Circle               If you end where you began, you got nowhere.

Examples:
       #1 Proving Allah by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Allah.
       #2 Proving Muhammad by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Muhammad.
       #3 Proving Islam by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Islam.

Christians are very fond of that. They keep going in circles, starting and stopping in the same spot.

Now let us analyse your post here:

1. Christians prove Jesus as god, one of the three (ideas none of them has been able to support logically) by the New testament and then proving New testament by God Jesus.

2. Proving Jesus as the only begotten son of God by the New testament and then proving the New testament by Jesus as the only begotten son

3. Proving christianity by the new testament and then proving new testament by christianity

3. False Analogy: Comparing two things as if they are parallel when they are not really the same at all.
Examples:
       #1 Many Muslims erroneously assume that Muslims and Christians share the same concepts of God, revelation, inspiration, textual preservation, the Bible, prophethood, biblical history, conversion, etc,

Well, for your information, we only share same God if it is unitarian God and not a three in one God, God that changed to human being, was punished by his creator and died.

Muslims dont share the same concept with regards to revelation with you in the sense that you believe that God revealed the bible whereas it is not so.

Also the bible has no textual preservation as no two versions are the same. It as suffered lots of edition, reprinting reversion etc and that is nit applicable to the Quran.

There is nowhere God revealed bible but it was compiled by people after the demise of Moses and Jesus. The bible has no history as no two stories of its compilation are the same.




     

  #2 Because a false analogy is drawn between Islam and Christianity, some Muslims think that any argument which refutes the Qur'an will likewise refute the Bible; any argument which refutes Muhammad will also refute Jesus Christ, etc,

Muslims have not been refuting Quran nor Muhammed but the bible because God didnt send the bible.

       #3 For example, many Muslims claim that Muhammad and all prophets were sinless. They even deny that Abraham was an idol worshipper. Thus when a Christian points out all the wicked things that Muhammad did (mass murder, child abuse, lying, etc.), the Muslims will say,

Oga, Abraham was not an idol worshipper. You may google his story and read. He asked his father why they worshipped what couldnt talk nor eat and had to destroy them leaving one ad was punished by marking a furnace in which he was thrown inside to be burnt to death.

You have not been able to substantiate your accusation of mass murder, child abuse, lying with facts. Your peeps have been graping at straw all these while.

    "If you are right, then you must also reject your biblical prophets for doing wicked things as well."

Muslims have not been saying christians are right but you should back your allegations with facts in which they have not been able to and thanks for the pointer with regards to biblical stories. BTW,  there has never been any christian prophets as Jesus never was and would never be.

       What he is really saying is, "If you reject my prophet, then you must reject your prophets as well. If Muhammad was a false prophet, then your prophets are false as well."

Muslims have not been saying that, so get your story right.

The root problem is that the Muslim concept of prophethood is not the same as the Christian concept of prophethood. We teach that prophets sin like anyone else. Thus while Islam is refuted by the sins of Muhammad, Christianity is not jeopardized at all. The Muslim is guilty of setting up a "false analogy."

Oga, you are even shooting yourself in the leg. Muslims did not say Muhammed never sinned or sinned or the prophets guilty of that, as its only Allah that knows that but christians do say Jesus never committed any sins, was sinless likewise other prophets. Even Paul said that whoever sins is a slave of sin but I dont know how you arrive at your story that prophets sin?

       Whenever a Muslim responds to a Christian attack on the Qur'an, Muhammad, or Allah by flipping the argument around and applying it to the Bible, Jesus or the Trinity as if Islam and Christianity either stand or fall together, he is guilty of the fallacy of false analogy. Islam can be false and Christianity be true at the same time.

Islam is the truth while christianity would always be false. Go read it yourself, read about contradictions, compilation, irrelvant stories, pornographies, love poems, incest, raping, mass murder etc. authors have revised different versions having missing verses here and there but Quran stands and Alla even challenged you to that.

4. The Fallacy of Irrelevance: When you introduce issues which have no logical bearing on the subject under discussion, you are using irrelevant arguments.
Examples:
       #1 Some Muslims argue, "The Qur'an is the Word of God because the text of the Qur'an has been preserved perfectly." This argument is erroneous for two reasons:
           a. Factually, the text of the Qur'an has not been preserved perfectly. The text has additions, deletions, conflicting manuscripts, and variant readings like any other ancient writing.

I disagree with this but would support it if you could supply me the additions, conflicting manuscripts etc
         

b. Logically, it is irrelevant whether the text of the Qur'an has been preserved because preservation does not logically imply inspiration. A book can be perfectly copied without implying its inspiration.

You are perfectly referring to the bible with regards to 2nd timothy 3 v 16. The Quran was inspired and preserved as well unlike the bible having different versions with verses missing and contradictions

       #2 When Muslims attack the character and motives of anyone who criticizes Islam, they are using irrelevant arguments. The character of someone is no indication of whether he is telling you the truth. Good people can lie and evil people can tell the truth. Thus whenever a Muslim uses slurs such as "mean," "dishonest," "racist," "liar," "deceptive," etc., he is not only committing a logical fallacy but also revealing that he cannot intellectually defend his beliefs.

That goes to David, Noetic, Todak etc. They have not been able to hold any intelligent discourse with Muslims with regards to Islam while threads have been created for their doctrines especially, that of deification of Jesus in wich they couldnt provide who jesus was begging and why he cried to God that why has thou  forsaken me but quick as saying mortal cannot understand it like that and forgot that same bible said there is NO SECRET INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE.

   

   #3 When confronted with the pagan origins of the Qur'an, some Muslims defend the Qur'an by answering,

Pagan origin ke, just hearing for the first time

    "But Christians celebrate Christmas and it was originally a pagan holiday! Thus both Muslims and Christians get their rites from the pagans."

Muslims did not get any rite from pagans or you could tell which one they got unlike you that got easter, xmas, new year etc in which you unknowingly agreed to above

This argument is erroneous for several reasons.
           a. It is a false analogy to parallel the pagan origins of the rites commanded in the Qur'an with the present day holidays nowhere commanded in the Bible. What some modern day Christians do on Dec. 25th has no logical bearing on what the Qur'an commands Muslims to do (eg. the Pilgrimage, the Fast, etc.).

Na wa o. I tire oo. No Muslim parallel that as christian rites have been established/culled from pagan rites and has no relationship with that of the muslims which has been ordained by Allah.

           b. It is irrelevant that some Christians choose to celebrate the birth of Christ. Since the Bible nowhere commands it, it is a matter of personal freedom. But Muslims are commanded in the Qur'an to believe and practice things many things which came from the paganism of that day.

Like what sir? Did Jesus even die on 25th and did you study the season then (maybe we need to dig deep into this sef) ?

         

c. The Muslim by using this argument is actually admitting that the Qur'an was not "sent down" but fabricated from pagan sources. This means he has become an unbeliever (Surah 25:4-6).

Firstly, muslims do not use the argument so your analogy up is false and should be accepted and lastly, muslims do not say that it was not sent down/fabricated from pagan sources.


   

   #4 Some Muslims argue that the Qur'an is the Word of God because it contains some historically or scientifically accurate statements. This argument is irrelevant. Just because a book is correct on some historical or scientific point does not mean it is inspired. You cannot take the attributes of a part and apply it to the whole. A book can be a mixture of true and false statements. Thus it is a logical fallacy to argue that the entire Qur'an is true if it makes one true statement.

Fact please and you should apply that to the bible as well please.

     

When a Muslim argues that history or science "proves" the Qur'an, this actually means that he is acknowledging that history and science can likewise refute the Qur'an. If the Qur'an contains just one historical error or one scientific error, then the Qur'an is not the Word of God. Verification and falsification go hand in hand.

I deal with facts and not story telling please. Could you provide the rebuttal and we read from you?

       

#5 The present meaning of a word is irrelevant to what it meant in ancient times. The word "Allah" is a good example. When confronted by the historical evidence that the word was used by pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times to refer to a high god who was married to the sun-goddess and had three daughters, some Muslims will quote dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc. to prove (sic) that "Allah means God." They are thus using modern definitions to define what the word meant over a thousand years ago! What "Allah" means now has no bearing on what it meant before Muhammad.

1. Your folks have presented the lie about the goddess and have been shown verses umpteen times showing where Allah said that they are idols devised by your very self in which you had no knowledge of. Enough of that hogwash please and would do you good if you could serve where Allah differs from the one worshipped then?

I would continue from #5 when less busy.

@Fhad

1. Lagosboy, Asiwaju musulumi of Nairaland

2.Olabowale, Baba Adini of Nairaland

Salam brother, please dont tell me that you are a party to all these Otun Adini, Osi adini, Adini this, adini that,

I am in suport of giving them another title/ role but not this adini of a thing and you should know how that is being bastardised in Nigeria.

How is Jesus not accorded respect?

@my good friend Tudor,could you show me where I hauled insults?

@Dankol,quite a nice post from one of your sites but promise you that I would refute all you posted using verses from Quran,Bible (both old and new testament). My response may be late but would definitely reply you. Takia till you hear from me

@Noetic

Start by telling me why EXACTLY you are a muslim?

Did you read my post at all? I was like you before accepting Islam, my siblings follow suit, my father did as well but still praying for my mother.

I was born a christian but learnt that it cannot offer salvation and most of Jesus' words have been twisted. Christianity no longer follow Jesus' teachings but that of Paul.

I have tasted christianity (once a christian) and others but found no salvation, joy, happiness, peace of mind as I have in Islam.

@Uplawal


Salam, please check here

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-146578.0.html

BTW, did you see my mail?

@Todak

I am not ready for immatured, unintelligent discourse. When you are ready, let us flow with this:

You dont expect me to waste my time with you while other important issues are still there. When you are ready, furnish me where creation of earth alone took more than 2 days or creation of heaven and earth took more than 6 days.

@Noetic

CAN U JUST TELL ME WHY EXACTLY YOU ARE A MUSLIM? JUST LIST THE SALIENT REASONS WHY U ARE A MUSLIM. . . . .LIKE AN EDUCATED PERSON.

I have tasted christianity (once a christian) and others but found no salvation, joy, happiness, peace of mind as I have in Islam.

@Abuzola

Salam brother. It has been happening and it formed part of my reversion to Islam. I am a living witness and apart from myself moving from christianity to Islam, I have witnessed some doing same in public lectures and Allah has touched some people through me as well. There was an instance where one tore the bible when shown some things in the bible and I have witnessed one between one Pastor Isang and Jamiu Adegunwa where most of the christians accepted Islam there before parting and it happened at Law school in Victoria Island, Lagos. Ishaq Akintola from Lagos State University was there as well and the pastor when conrned had to voice out by saying ' You Jamiu again'?  I have witnessed where a pastor told a questioner (sending someone) not to ask questions because it happens to be the foundation of their faith that if there is no dying and resurrection of Jesus, then there is no christianity. I don witness many self, se na pastor that wanted to open eyes or made leapers walk I go talk or those that divert topics like Noetic, Davidylan do here. They would have been given the topic to discuss but when they come, they would start saying another thing and that is the more reason I am not surprised at those two friends of mine

BTW, are you referring to formerly pastor Matthew Oyewole now Masud Oyewole? I have all his certificates signed by late Idahosa then and the pastorate school he attended then?





@Noetic & Davidylan

Oga, what facts do you need apart from that have been tendered so far ranging from:

Deification of Jesus --Is Jesus God?
Was Jesus sent to the whole world?
Did Jesus die for your sins?
Was Jesus a saviour?
Was he crucified?

etc

Choose one and we discuss with facts from your bible and Quran

@Tudor

Sorry blabs,you too far gone.no school can help you now not even allah.
You're doomed to remain a slowpoke for life

I am happy for being a slowpoke that being from the generation of apes that couldnt be verified. Evolution my foot .


You could refresh your memory where a geologist found a tooth thinking it was human tooth, gave it Nebraska Man but the same geologist found out that it was a pig tooth.
Also Charles Darwin admitted his discovery being a hoax and couldnt be evidence to the missing link in the evolution of apes to man when he thought his dscovery was a Hominid

Sorry that you granny be apes

@Tudor

You fail to realise that for your own god to be the ultimate creator,the concept of an allah( the supposed creator according to the islamists) should be non-existent. Your religion stands based on the fact theres no OTHER god except yours. If allah hypothesis does exist (since you don't deny its existence) ,it means your god is bullshit coz we can't have two creators,[/b]two most powerful and all loving beings.your faith makes no room for that possibility.

But i find it funny though you expecting me to [b]provide evidence for the islamic hypothesis and in essense yours.

Someone's response made me to come and I dont have the intnetion of doing that, so pardon me for coming to this section.You have Islam section to tender whatever you have. You should know the stand of Muslims with regard to Allah, God, Trinity etc

Just passing by

@Gloriuus

Its because of the TRINITY, God the FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT. Jesus is God and the SON of God. In his flesh form He was the SON of God, but HE is also God. 3 in 1!!!

Are the questions too hard for you too?

Ok, if he is God, who did he shout to that 'myGod, why has thou forsaken me?
Who did he pray and beg more than two times and his sweat were like thick blood?
Why did he say God is greater than him?

Ten things people should know about Islam


1. Allah is God. The great majority of the non-Muslims I meet believe that Allah is a kind of personal name for some kind of small-"g" god, perhaps like Jupiter or Vulcan (gods of the Roman pantheon). I've even heard people refer contemptuously to the God of Islam as a "desert god," as if Judaism and Christianity originated in Yankee Stadium or something. The fact is that Allah is simply a compound word made from the Arabic words al (the) and lah, (god): the God. Monotheism -- the belief in a single, supreme, divine creator -- is the central and most important aspect of Islam. (And it's pronounced uh-LAH, not "Al, uh?" Even most English translations of the Qur'an I've seen do not translate the word. I believe it is really problematic and misleading not to translate such a key word for which there is an exact English equivalent.

Along these lines, I've taken several Muslims to task for using the Arabic term for God when they're speaking in English: all it does it serve to confuse those for whom it's never been made clear that Allah is the same God worshipped by Jews and Christians. Muslims may differ on various points with Jews and Christians, but this is not one of them. You'd never know, though, from the way these groups act with each other much of the time, that they each hold dear the same belief in the God of Abraham, Moses, and of Jesus (for Christians and Muslims) and, for Muslims, of Muhammad. (Muslims accept all the prophets prior to Muhammad, including Jesus.

2. The biggest sin in Islam is shirk: "associating partners with God." Shirk may be generally defined as polytheism, but also includes such things as the Christian concept of a triune God, or the worshipping of anything other than God, whether it's a human being, any natural/human creation or phenomenon. This tends to create quite a theological abyss between Muslims and polytheists, but also with Christians and certain other religious groups.

You can imagine from this that expressions such as "Holy Mother of God!" give most observant Muslims the theological willies.

3. Muslims don't believe that Jesus was the son of God. As mentioned in #1, Muslims accept Jesus (in Arabic, "Isa" as a prophet, and an extremely important one at that. Following from #2, however, they do not accept the Christian belief that Jesus was the son of God (literally or metaphorically), although they do believe he is the son of Mary (in Arabic, "Maryam". They further believe that at the time of the Crucifixion, another man was substituted for Jesus and made to look like him. Jesus was then raised up, "body and soul" by God into heaven.

This is probably the most significant point of difference between Christians and Muslims. Some Christian theologians and clergy believe that Christians err by placing too much emphasis on Jesus and elevating him to God's level, but that's an argument for another time.

4. Muslims don't worship the Prophet Muhammad. This naturally follows from #2, but, I suspect because of the extreme emphasis on Jesus in much of Christian practice, many assume that Islam parallels this with Muhammad and Muslims. While the Prophet is considered by Muslims to have been the human being with the best character, he is still regarded as a human being, albeit an exceptional one. And while he is regarded as the final prophet of God, he is not the only one. He does not have divine status, although Muslims hold him in the highest regard and are expected and encouraged to try to emulate his habits and characteristics, those being of the highest quality.

Muslims were for years incorrectly referred to as Mohammedans (spelled variously). This has generally become archaic, but you still see it now and then. It's actually profoundly offensive, since it implies shirk. (And while we're on it, it's Muslim, not Moslem, and Qur'an or Quran, not Koran.)

5. Translations of the Qur'an are not the Qur'an. It's well-known that something is always lost in translation. For those English speakers who don't ever expect to read the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic, and whatever other languages in which its component texts originally appeared, it seems to be accepted that translations of the Bible are all more or less equally valid, although one may have a preferred translation. But only the Qur'an in its original Arabic is considered to be the Qur'an; translations are treated with great respect but are simply not equally valid. Muslims believe that the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad (who was completely illiterate) by God through the angel Jibril (Gabriel). Muhammad memorized the passages as they were revealed and recited them and shared them with his family and followers. Pre-Islamic Arab culture was predominantly oral, and others ultimately learned and memorized the entire Qur'an; it was not completely written down until after the Prophet's death.

There have been many, many translations over the 1400-odd years since it was first written down; plenty of them are bad -- a few of them deliberately so in order to discredit Islam. Many poor translations offer little more than the bias and ignorance of the translator. But it's imperative to remember that any translation is at best an approximation, and it can be very dangerous to make sweeping judgments based on translated verses, especially in isolation.

6. Not all Muslims are Arabs; not all Arabs are Muslims. There seems to be widespread confusion about this. I suppose that, on some level, it's understandable: the Qur'an was revealed to an Arab speaker in Arabia, and two of Islam's holiest sites (the Holy Mosque in Makkah and the Prophet's Mosque in Madinah) are in what is now Saudi Arabia . But Arab people live in many countries, not just Saudi Arabia , and subscribe to many different religions, not just Islam: Christianity, Judaism, and Druze among them. The most populous Muslim country in the world is not even an Arab country: it's Indonesia . Only about twelve percent of the world's Muslims are Arabs.

Muslims are nationals of many countries, from India to Sweden to Australia . Anyone who wants to can convert to Islam, and it's actually only a minority of Muslims who are also of Arab heritage. Also, not all Arab customs are Muslim. All Muslims do not speak Arabic, although prayers are to be said in Arabic, and Muslims are encouraged to learn to read Arabic so that they can understand the Qur'an. And while I would really, really like to believe this doesn't even need to be said, recent events have proved me wrong: not everyone with brown skin or wearing a turban is a Muslim or an Arab.

7. Culture is not religion. So much of the oppression and misogyny (female illiteracy, "honor" killing, female genital mutilation, forced marriages, physical abuse, etc.) we hear about in quasi- and pseudo-Islamic countries such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran stems from patriarchal cultural customs and baggage and not from Islam, although it's always "justified" sixty ways to Sunday with supposed religious dictates and self-serving interpretations of scripture.

If any of these countries actually thoroughly implemented Islam as intended and honored the spirit as well as the letter of the "law," women, for example, would not only have far more rights and freedoms than they currently do in any of these countries, but the behavior of men and the actions of governments would have to change so radically that you would probably not recognize these countries at all. Islamic concepts and requirements are that different from how these countries currently operate.

8. Islam is not a monolith. It is a large, widespread, rich, and complex religion, with an extremely intricate and sometimes enigmatic scripture, and an estimated 1.2 billion followers worldwide. There is overwhelming diversity within the Islamic world, beginning with the major Islamic subgroups: Sunni Muslims (accounting for around 85-90% of Muslims), Shi'ite Muslims, Sufis, Ismailis, and other small splinter groups. Within these groups there are schools of legal thought; there are four major ones within Sunni Islam alone. Muslims might be born into the religion or convert to it, and this contributes to the diversity within its adherents. It's absolutely essential not to see any one Muslim, genuine or otherwise, as representative of all Muslims.

The very diversity of Muslims worldwide is one reason the annual pilgrimage (hajj) to Makkah, the birthplace of Islam, is so compelling: every year for over fourteen hundred years, millions of Muslims have united for a few days, putting aside all differences of race, ethnic background, class, gender and language, to participate in a ritual established by the Prophet Muhammad.

9. Jihad does not mean "holy war." This has to be one of the most damaging, most persistent myths about Islam. The Western media have helped perpetuate this, but there are plenty of benighted Muslims who insist on misapprehending and incorrectly using this term. Jihad, (which comes from the Arabic root word jahada, meaning "to toil, to exert oneself, to strive for a better way of life" is correctly translated as "struggle" or "endeavour," and can easily apply to such things as a student working to earn a medical degree or a group of people raising money to build a mosque. It can apply to the struggle to control one's temper, or to learn to read and write. Part of my husband's jihad as a Muslim is the effort it takes for him to get up in time to offer the first prayers of the day, which occur before dawn. It encompasses the idea of struggling or fighting for good or against evil, but that does not necessarily mean with violence, and it certainly does not mean that any crackpot claiming to be Muslim and waving a Qur'an around can decide who is good and who is evil, and start killing people.

There are certain extreme circumstances under which the notion of jihad might encompass aggression or armed conflict, but these are only to be engaged in as a last resort, when all legal, political, economic, social, and diplomatic attempts to defend Muslims and their right to worship, or to combat other severe oppression (and not only against Muslims), have failed. Any kind of military action is, at best, a subset of the concept of jihad. In fact, there is a well-known Islamic saying indicating that any kind of military conflict is the "minor jihad"; the "major jihad" is the struggle to control and improve oneself. Some of the passages in the Qur'an describing battle and aggression (the passages militants often quote out of context to support their agendas) are narrating actual historical events, not advising them as a course of action or a religious duty. They are also offset by many other passages enjoining peace, mercy, goodness, tolerance, patience, forgiveness, compassion, restrictions in warfare, etc. It seems the bin Ladens and "Muslim" militants of the world just haven't gotten to those parts of the Qur'an yet.

10. Islam does not promote, sponsor, condone or encourage terrorism or murder. The smear campaign against Islam (during the twentieth century in particular) has been extremely thorough and successful.

Salam, I received this from a brother and felt it would benefit all.

Principles of Success

According to the Quran, Prophet Muhammad was the most excellent example for all of humanity. Even non-Muslim historians recognize him to be one of the most successful personalities in history.

In 1946 Reverend R Bosworth-Smith in "Mohammed & Mohammedanism." wrote about the Prophet:

"Head of the state as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but, he was pope without the pope's claims, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue. If ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by a right divine It was Mohammad, for he had all the power without instruments and without its support. He cared not for dressing of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life."

I[b]n 1978 Michael Hart in his book " The 100 Most Influential Persons In History", [/b] selected Prophet Muhammad as the most influential person in history and had this to say about his choice:

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level,  It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history."

The Prophet's words and actions show us the way to achieve success, not just in this world but in the hereafter as well.

In short, the Prophet of Islam was a positive thinker in the full sense of the word. All his activities were result-oriented. He refrained from all negative elements of behavior that are counter-productive to achievement such as hate, envy, arrogance, greed, etc.

All the actions of the Prophet were solely based on a pure intention to please God.

By studying the life of the Prophet we can identify some of the principles of success.

The First Principle:

Take the easier path. This principle is well explained in a saying of A'ishah. She said:

Whenever the Prophet had to choose between two options, he always opted for the easier choice. (Bukhari)

To choose the easiest option means that you should evaluate your options and choose the most feasible. One who begins from this starting point will surely reach his goal.

The Second Principle:

See advantage in disadvantage. In the early days of Makkah, there were many problems and difficulties. At that time, a guiding verse in the Quran was revealed. It said:

With every hardship there is ease, with every hardship there is ease. (94:5-6).

This means that if there are some problems, there are also opportunities at the same time. The way to success is to overcome the problems and avail the opportunities.

The Third Principle:

Change the place of action. This principle is derived from the Hijrah. The Hijrah was not just a migration from Makkah to Madinah, it was a journey to find a more suitable place to put Islam into action.

Physical migration and perseverance is an important element in establishing Justice and Peace. This also planted the roots of intellectual migration from the subjugated minds to an awakened spirit.

The Fourth Principle:

Make a friend out of an enemy. The Prophet of Islam was repeatedly subjected to practices of antagonism by the unbelievers. At that time, the Qur'an enjoined upon him the return of good for evil. And then, as the Quran added: 

You will see your direst enemy has become your closest friend. (41:34)

It means that a good deed in return of a bad deed has a conquering effect over your enemies. And the life of the Prophet is a historical proof of this principle.

The greatest example of amnesty was shown by the Prophet after the blood-less conquest of Makkah. All enemies of Islam were granted pardon including Hinda, the wife of Abu Soofyaan who had disemboweled the martyred body of Hamza, the Prophet's uncle. In spite of her detestable mutilation of Hamza's body, the Prophet forgave her.

The Fifth Principle:

Education is central to success. After the battle of Badr, about 70 of the unbelievers were taken as prisoners of war. They were educated people. The Prophet announced that if any one of them would teach ten Muslim children how to read and write he would be freed. This was the first school in the history of Islam in which all of the students were Muslims, and all of the teachers were from the enemy rank.

The Sixth Principle:

Don't be a dichotomous thinker. In the famous battle of Mutah, Khalid Ibn Walid decided to withdraw Muslim forces from the battlefield because he discovered that they were disproportionately outnumbered by the enemy. When they reached Madinah, some of the Muslims received them by the word 'O deserters!' The Prophet said: 'No, they are men of advancement'.

Those Madinan people were thinking dichotomously, either fighting or retreating. The Prophet said that there is also a third option, and that is to avoid war and find time to strengthen yourself. Now history tells us that the Muslims, after three years of preparation, advanced again towards the Roman border and this time they won a resounding victory.

The Seventh Principle:

Do not engage in unnecessary confrontation. This principle is derived from the treaty of Hudaybiyyah. At that time, the unbelievers were determined to engage Muslims in fighting, because they were in an advantageous position. But the Prophet , by accepting their conditions unilaterally, entered into a pact. It was a ten-year peace treaty. Until then, the meeting ground between Muslims and non-Muslims had been on the battlefield. Now the area of conflict became that of ideological debate. Within two years, Islam emerged as victorious because of the simple reason of its ideological superiority.

The Eighth Principle:

Gradualism instead of radicalism. This principle is well-established by a Hadith quoted in Bukhari. A'ishah says that the first verses of the Qur'an were related mostly to Heaven and Hell. After some time when faith had taken hold in peoples hearts, God revealed specific commands to desist from unjust and self-deprecating social practices that were prevalent in the Arabian dark ages. This is a clear proof that for social changes, Islam advocates the evolutionary method, rather than the revolutionary method.

The Ninth Principle:

Be pragmatic in controversial matters. During the writing of the Hudaybiyyah treaty, the Prophet dictated these words: 'This is from Muhammad, the Messenger of God.' The Qurayshan delegate raised objections over these words. The Prophet promptly ordered the words to be changed to 'Muhammad, son of Abdullah'. This simple change placated the Qurayshan delegate.

These are just some of the principles by which the Prophet of Islam conducted his life. His achievements have been recognized by historians as the supreme success. We would be wise to live by following his example.

You have indeed in the Messenger of God a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in God and the Final Day ,  (Quran 33:21)

@Bawomolo

what was your original religion

My parent were/are christians.

@Todak

babs, i don't know all, but you were once the pythagoras of NL but you fell blatantly, you know and you know how much you criticize my arithmetic, so why call me "Mr. Know All",

Oga, are you Tudor ?P . The post was meant for my professor, Tudor and would not know how that affects you Todak Always remove that your christianity googles when rerading my post .

With regards to your post, I deliberately ignored you because you were not making sense at all. Muslims explained to you and even Backslider that happened to be knowleable than you accepted after explanation but keep displaying lack of understanding despite repeated explanation.

You dont expect me to waste my time with you while other important issues are still there. When you are ready, furnish me where creation of earth alone took more than 2 days or creation of heaven and earth took more than 6 days.

@Todak

And if i tell you will your islamic brain fluid make you accept or see "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God", so tell me where is Abraham?

Are you aware of what you quoted above?This is the verse:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The above is in King James Version authorised in 1611 and formed the strongest evidence for the Doctrine of the Trinity. But now this part, 'the father, the word and the holy ghost; and these three are one' has been expunged in the Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971 and in many other bibles as it was a gloss that had encroached on the Greek test.


I john 5 v 7 and 8 in the New American Standard Bible read as follo[/b]ws; 'and it is the spirit who bears witness because the spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness, the spirit, and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement[b].


Also in the New World Translation of Holy Scriptures used by Jehovah Witness, you will find 'for there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement'.

Trinity is not biblical, it is not even in the bible, not in bible dictionaries, Jesus never taught trinity nor mentioned same. There is no basis or proof in the bible for the acceptance of trinity.

@Todak

Hmmmmmmmm. muhammad really tried o, so all these story of Jesus and his coming back again and the perilious time, dey quran. and yet Jesus no be God, why did muhammad not come back. cos i'm baffled by this too. heh

Na you wan make me talk again o.

Ok, if he is God, who did he shout to that 'myGod, why has thou forsaken me?
Who did he pray and begged more than two times and his sweat were like thick blood?
Why did he say God is greater than him?

@Horus

Did I said he should come in 2009?. No!!!, but he is not there.

Ok sir. Time of his coming is not specified sir but he would definitely come.

@Bawomolo

my position is a simple one. Most people are compelled to follow the religions of their parents (whether it be hinduism or islam).

I didnt follow th religion of my parent sir.

are you arguing we are born to be muslim? I just find that hard to believe.

We discussed this here:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-246849.0.html

@Horus

Both religions are wrong, because we are now in the Year 2009 and the Jesus of the muslim and Christians of 2000 years ago hasn't appeared in the clouds yet.

Did they say he would come in 2009 Na wa for this my atheist brother 

@Uplawal

@babs
am sending my email addy again, its titialayo25@yahoo.co.uk, thanks

I have done that and I am sure you would receive it this time.

@Tudor

Babs787 should be banned for being deliberately senseless. Do you really want us to mention the flaws?

The intelligent one . I have told you to tell the school I can enrol to broaden my knowledge since you have turned to mr. know-all. My good friend SIR TODAK

That girl eh
all the junior girls knew her own prayers didn't go far
The farthest location they reached was probably Abakaliki since she was facing East

osisi no kill me with laughter oooooooo. A very good comedian evn than myself

Sir,can we have the fundamental flaws?

Alhamdulillah for this post and I am and would ever be grateful to Allah for making me a Muslim. I started as a christian and faced lots of temptations, obstacles etc from my parents an church member but here I am today, a Muslim. Ever since my siblings and myself reverted, Allah has been usig us to touch lives. My happiest day was when my father accepted Islam months to his death!! but still praying for my mother to do same. I didnt go Arabic school to learn Arabic arabic and how to pray but did that on my own and and at times with the assistance of one Ustaz good in Tajweed and Fiqh and Sudais.

I got everything I want in Islam lacking while a christian and I am not afraid of death because I know that I am on the right path and following the purpose of creation as said by Allah that he didn't create man and jinn but to worship Him.

Alhamdulillah and am grateful to Him for showing me the truth and i pray that he would do that to my friends on the other side here.