shdemidemi:


and what stops me from asking again, if you still won't grasp the whole idea of the advent of the Messiah.

I don't need digression from that my question. Create another thread for your question.

shdemidemi:


Is this the new slogan or did you just come across this part of scripture?

Is Jesus God?

Trinity does not exist...show me with scriptures if it does.

God is the head of Christ...Read your bible to see it.

Is God Jesus?

shdemidemi:


Did Jesus ever refer to her as his mother? He calls her 'woman'. There is certainly a reason for that.

Smh.

So there is a reason for that and there is no reason for "God the son" not been mentioned anywhere? This is when someone's belief is shrouded in hypocrisy.

Oh! She is not his mother because you did not see where he called her mother?

Jesus is God. Mary is the mother of God. Why not prove it wrong instead of giving us unfounded reasons.

shdemidemi:


grow up..

not every one is here to win arguments... point out substantial points and not all of these tenuous arguments you are putting forward.

You need to grow you understanding.

I asked a simple question that need simple answer. This is why people insult Christians anyhow. You practice something different from what is written.

My point is in the question. Answer it the way i asked it without digression. If no one can answer it, then it beyond their understanding or they have chosen to put their faith in a teaching they don't understand.

jnrbayano:


Since we are both in agreement as suggested by the bold, why is there a debate then?

Trinity does not exist. The Father is the head of Christ.

shdemidemi:


Is it in your bible that any god that did not create heaven and earth shall perish?

Digression! I thought we discussed this before?

shdemidemi:


I think coming across as though one is evading your questions seem to boost your confidence. There is nothing to hide or to be evasive about. If Jesus is called God and at the same time called the son, what is the crime in calling him 'God the son'?

You will need to dismiss a whole lot of scripture if you insist on basing Jesus' divinity on the understanding that He prayed to God, He has a God et al.

When we get to those other things we discuss them. As for now Trinity Does Not Exist. And again those things you are talking of depends on how you understood them.

God is the head of Christ, The God of Gods, the God of all flesh, the Father of all.

Can you call Mary the mother of God?

shdemidemi:


You flatter yourself my friend. Contradict what exactly! It is you that need to do so much bible twisting to refute Jesus as God and not the other way round.

As for your questions:
. Adam or Jesus, who was the first to become a human?

Stop asking profane questions like one in a science or maths class. The bible calls Him the first begotten of the father, my friend, I believe the bible account.

If you cannot tell between Adam and Jesus who came first as a man, then what they are teaching you from the scripture has no meaning. This is we are arguing. Teachers teach people to have faith in what they don't know.

.Was Adam not a son God before women started giving birth(virgin birth inclusive)

The relationship between the son and the father is such that the son is the expression of who the father is. He did not become a son because he was made of the dust as man after Adam or by birth via Mary. John 14:9
Heb 1
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Na wa o!
Why was Adam said to be a son of God, Luke 3:38? Did Jesus become the begotten Son of God because a woman gave birth to him?

Keep dodging my question with your digression.

Ukutsgp:
so u think dat if i am speaking igbo to someone now then i am speaking in tongues? Is it the holyspirit giving me utterance then? I dnt think so.

So how are you going to start speaking igbo when you have not learnt it?

I can make the noise...zatazozozobababa! Does it mean i am speaking in tongue?

One is impossible, the other is very very possible.

jnrbayano:


Good you admitted it was Jesus Isaiah referred to in that verse

Would Isaiah as directed by the spirit of God (The Holy Spirit) Isaiah 9:6 call Jesus the names which he is not? Is the Holy Spirit confused?

Again, how many "Mighty Gods and Everlasting Fathers" do we have?

Who said Jesus is not what he was called?

We have one Mighty God and his God is the Almighty God. We have one Everlasting Father and his Father is the Almighty God, the Only True God. Jn 17:3, the Father of spirits, Hebrew 12:9.

So you next question?

Bidam:
Why is it,that whenever a cult attacks christianity, they always attack the deity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

Jesus Christ is God is not a contest but a statement of REALITY.

This God became flesh( 1 tim 3:16).

Paul said it is beyond all question and a mystery...anyone who wants to argue this should take it up with Paul and the Holy Spirit.

Where is the Cultist?

If you cannot defend what Paul taught, then you should keep silent, learn and ask questions. I have always told you to start afresh but you wouldn't listen.

Please tell us why Christ (deity) has a God (the Father), Rev 3:12, the same way we do, Jn 20:17 and remained subject to his God, 1Cor 15:27-28?

The question is still on, wanna try?

jnrbayano:


Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Who is Isaiah refering to here?

Its say, "His name WILL BE CALLED..." before that time, God is already know as Almighty God and Father.

That you Will be Called a father tomorrow does not mean you Papa will resign from fatherhood.

The verse refers to Jesus who will be call Mighty God, Everlasting Father on a Future date when he will be born.

shdemidemi:


Just because femi threw quotes bountifully with ease without proper understanding, one should see Jesus that walked the face of the earth like just another Tom, right?

Femi get sense. Had it been he wrote a different thing, that question of mine will make him to think again.

He understood that when we have 2 Toms is school, it would be very wrong for a teacher to refer to the 2 Toms as one just because the bear the same name, Tom. Tom A is not Tom B but they are both Toms.

shdemidemi:


If you want to go by logic, I won't even attempt going into a debate with you. There are a flurry of events that does not agree with logic in scripture, if we must go by just logic we can as well dismiss the entire faith.

God is not Tom so that makes your analogy misleading in this matter.

The same way God is not Jesus.
You know the details of what i mean.

shdemidemi:


I completely disagree, Adam was not the first human son. God in the person of Jesus was said to be the first begotten of the father.
Hebrews 1:6.

1. Adam or Jesus, who was the first to become a human?
2. Was Adam not a son God before women started giving birth(virgin birth inclusive)?

Answer these things and contradict yourself. Your Hebrew 1:6 did not tell us how God(the Father) begot Himself and why God(the Father) should die as Jesus? God forbid bad thing!

Now, whenever Jesus refer to His father or His God, He presents Himself as God the son. However, this does not take away all the divine attributes predicated on Him like none other.

Error! Error! This is how preachers keep deceiving people to prove their man-made doctrine. Did Jesus present himself as God the Son or as Son of God? Where did you get that?

Nobody is taking his qualities away. So despite all these powers, why does he have a God the same way we do and is subject to His God, 1Cor 15:27-28.

The question is still being dodged like tomorrow no dey.

shdemidemi:


It is a mystery, yet the truth to those who will take time to understand the setting of scriptures.

Jesus is God.

Before you tell anyone that you must also make the person understand that Jesus is not the Father. Unless you and sisterme are one.

The son of a lion(Tom) is a lion(Ginger).
Tom is a lion
Ginger is a lion
Tom is not Ginger.
Tom is the head of Ginger
Tom is greater than Ginger

dein77:
Oh God, You know I don't know how to prove the Trinity. It's an heavenly arithmetic that surpasses my intellectual prowess.
I simply have enough faith to believe it.

Enough faith to delete the truth in those bible quotes and hang onto what you did not fully? I see.

shdemidemi:


I will pose a similar question to you-

Does God really have a son in Jesus, if he does who is His wife?

God constantly took counsel by and within himself, how logically comprehensible is this?

That is like asking me, "how can you make fire without matches?" i will bring out 2 stones and show you. I believe you will still continue to wonder what am doing with stones.

Adam is the son of God, Luke 3:38. God does not need a wife to make a son. This is the original thing. This is how the first human son was gotten....without a wife. Settled or Do you disagree?

The question about Counsel is an attempt to lure me away from paying attention to my question. You can bring that up after and i will give an answer to it.

I want my question answered without digression. I want answers.

Please tell us why Christ (deity) has a God (the Father), Rev 3:12, the same way we do, Jn 20:17?

^There it is again. If i should link another chapter to the above, na deep trouble.

jnrbayano:
A classic trash!!

keep reading the holy bible like a novel...

How do you read your own, blindly or without understanding?

Please tell us why Christ (deity) has a God (the Father), Rev 3:12, the same way we do, Jn 20:17?

Hope you know those verses? No classic fumbling, no digression, no running away. Just the reason why it is so.

Ukutsgp:
how true is this.

Very true, Acts 2:11. They spoke and praised God in languages of different nations. Zototatatata! Is not a language.

Assuming they want to praise Peter by saying, "Peter thank you" and they chant, "pee pee pee ta ta ta tan tan thank oo you." those hearing this will say that these people are professional stammerers of only 3 words cos that is what they continue saying for hours.

Speaking in tongue first took place at the tower of babel. A shadow of something to come.

henrijin:
Because it's blabbing. What does it mean sef? Someone will tell me it's heavenly language. If u speak Portuguese to me who only understands English, you're speaking in an unknown tongue to me. Meanwhile, tongue means "language".

Beauriful!

Noise making is not speaking in tongue. Latin is not speaking in tongue(unknown language) for those who speak and understand Latin but it is, for those who don't understand Latin.

Hmm...Interesting and saddening.

Bidam: a JW fellow who doesn't accept the deity of Christ...Who is the guy never ever learning here? I believe folks that liked your posts don't even know the meaning of 'ever learning'. Religious folks like you would rather believe what watch tower tells them rather than what scripture is saying. Posterity is your judge not me.

Never ever wanting to accept that am not a JW. I know you will still call me that again sometime in the future to attract sympathizers. Why do you like the truth to always elude you? Like you have been programmed to run away and start afresh when your getting close to grabbing a single truth.

A religious fellow who could not tell me why Christ (deity) has a God (the Father), Rev 3:12, the same way we do, Jn 20:17.

Thinking faculty must have disappeared by now, brace yourself.

spywareczar: i hve sum ebooks dat could help though

The promise is long overdue. Still waiting....

Bidam: wise words

Never ever learning since 1050 AD. Smh.

BERNIMOORE:

bolded above, talking about common sense and scriptural doctrine you allude to wisdom through the use of sense

here is what bible says about that and why we cannot solely rely on wisdom;

1 corinthians 1:20,21

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe

Bro i should be the one using that scripture to preach. It is the wisdom of man that made Moses hit the rock twice when he was asked to do it one, Saul gathered animals for burnt offering thinking he will please God, when he was told not to spare any. The same with people adding transfusion when they are commanded not to Eat. You see how men add their wisdom?

wait, you are trying to differentiate humans blood as superior (scriptural) from animals blood, but yet you could not provide a scriptural basis if the blood is the life of animals(according to the bible), and people of isreal are directed NOT not to eat the life(blood) with the meat according to the bible (note that i am not saying that eating is same as transfusion, but i am building my own argument from what scripture says about human and animal lives, humans and animal blood)
Deuteronomy 12:23
But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat.

striking similarities between human and animal life(spirit)

Eclesiastes 3:19,20

19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?[/size]

taking your blood out and putting it back in the face of scriptural evidence above, Deuteronomy 12:23 'because the blood is the life'

Eclesiastes 3:19,20 they(man and animals) all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals[/b], for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 [b]Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth[/size]

you can see that they are still very consistent with the bible dictates! and i think doing everything within the scriptural rules to be 'found spotless' in Gods eye matter most.

Now that animal and humans have the same/equal life, why would you kill an animal for food but you can't kill a human? Since what happens to Man happens to animal.

You didn't tell me if it is wrong to draw your blood out and put it back.

CANTICLES: ....... U ar mistaken, bcoz u dont know d scriptures ;Act 15:29 Says " Keep Abstaining from blood, .... Sexual immorality " ! Wait , does dat min a person sud not play wit ladies again or wont g near women, isnt ur mom a woman? a reasonable person knows dat he doesnt commit sexual immorality until he had intimacy( sex) wit d opposite sex ! When d scripture says abstain from blood, u violate that law... Not by avoidin a bleedin person BUT by consumin blood into ur body system, wich may be in d form of transfusion or thru mouth

Blood=blood
Sexual immorality=Sexual immorality.
sexual immorality is not equal to women.
It never says, abstain from women.

So it means, "stop consuming blood into your SYSTEM?" Where did u get this your System explanation? I want to see SYSTEM and Transfusion.

Ukutsgp:

Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine allows a
liver transplant but not the blood that is
in it.
Jehovahs Witnesses DO take blood
products now.
They take all fractions of blood.This
includes hemoglobin, albumin, clotting
factors, cryosupernatant and cryo-poor
too, and many, many, others.
If one adds up all the blood fractions the
JWs takes, it equals a whole unit of
blood. Any, many of these fractions are
made from thousands upon thousands of
units of donated blood.

Where do they get the enbolden from? Do they manufacture it or they get it from the blood that must be poured like water and covered with sand? And again, whose blood, animal or human?

RikoduoSennin:

Very sick people and People in coma are FEED through I.V which is done how? **intraveinously**

That is not even the point, The scriptures say ABSTAIN, and that means more than eating. Unless you still don't understand what "abstain" means.

Blood Covenant are no joke, why is that? Because blood is Sacred, when you view it like that, you will get what "abstain" means.

Yes, blood transfusion like every medical procedure has its risk. Bloodless surgery is still the one with lower risk and it is a growing field in the medical world.

Very nice point at the bolded. Why not tell us how.

So is it the same thing to eat egusi soup and also to feed it intravenously?

let us leave alcohol and use cowbell milk, Can you put this into your blood?

BERNIMOORE:

you cannot provide a basis for this in the scripture (bold in your quote)....and i can say that is what you think!

i think this topic is one of those i am still not fully clear about, but i think those who chose not to take blood transfusion are still acting within what the scriptures says and directs about blood, and their decision should be respected

for example, Lets start by what was written about how to treat blood in the bible:

when i was discusing this topic with the jehovahs witneses, they pointed out Gods direction to the isreal as to what to do with blood, that is he directs the blood to be poured out like water and cover with earth

Deuteronomy 12:16

16"Only you shall not eat the blood; you are to pour it out on the ground like water.

Leviticus 17:13
"'Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,


apart from avoiding eating of blood, God directs how it should be treated......cover with earth!

nothing was further said about storage of blood of anykind! man or animal

The greek word used for 'abstain' Acts 15:29

; to hold oneself {off} that {is} refrain: - abstain.http://www.newjerusalem.org/Strongs/G567?from=Chapter(Acts.15).Verse(Acts.15.20).Strongs(G567)

and moreover i think they are trying to rely on 2 peter 3, vs 13,14

2 Peter 3: 13,14

13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

My brother it is common sense that taking ur blood out and putting it back doesn't change anything.

It is also common sense that the blood you are going to pour out like water is not Human blood but that of animal.

It is also stated that your not going to be killing a Human being but Animal.

Nothing was written against taking your blood out and putting it back.

CANTICLES: A certain man was disgnosed wit a typical disease at d hospital .... And d doctor asked " hav u been drinkin alcohol? " the man answered " yes sir" .. The doctor continued " from dis moment, even u want cure; Abstain From Alcohol" ...But The Man Reason " If i know drink am thru mouth, den fit transfuse am to my body now!" ! Is he keepin d doctors advice ? Has he truely abstain ? .. therefore, true christians! Once again i say true christians who want to folow Gods Command In Act 15:29 " Abstain from blood" will refuse blood transfusion even if it meant sacrificing their lives! In d future" there is goin to be a resurection of the righteous and the unrighteous" act 24:15! Blood transfusion is not for true christians.

Only if some certain men would know that taking out their blood and putting it back into the blood stream is different for eating or drinking their blood.

Pour alcohol into another alcohol and nothing will happen. Pour it into ur stomach and something will happen. Let alcohol go where it belongs and nothing will happen. It affects the blood and does not belong there.

Acts 15:29
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

To abstain from blood would mean and include not having anything to do with blood and TOUCHING of blood. But we (JWs inclusive) kill and touch the animals we kill. So abstinence from blood here is pointing at, "do not eat blood."

Eating blood is not the same as transfusing blood. Two different things. One disintegrates blood and pass some of its components as waste, the other preserves it. Of course we must obey Jehovah's commandment to pour out the blood of the animal we kill and not eat it. This does not speak of blood transfusion.

Since we know that we all have the same Spirit (life) ie one spirit, a matching blood from another person would be like the same blood i have. Transfusion from the blood of a living person (not dead body) would mean CONTINUITY of the same life in another.

With this in mind, there still remain the abstinence from blood as Jehovah commanded.

Well done Ukutsgp.