Ubenedictus: it is interesting that God didn't didn't show moses the faces of the cherubs he asked him to mould. At least people saw Jesus and could describe his features, i could imagine moses telling an artist to mould a cherub the artist had never seen only height and width, that was the specifications!

Besides tell me what you understand by the term "in spirit and in truth".
That aside the main variation in the ancient artworks i know are mainly of art not mainly of features.

"I can imagine Moses writing things he never witness." these are the words of unbelievers. When you say you believe in the Holyspirit, is it for mouth or mere recitation of nicene creed?

With regard to Christ,The apostles said "we regard no man according to the flesh" those who take this advice will never make an image of him. Those who can possibly do that are the type that worshiped Paul, calling him god despite his warning. This is where you borrow what you practice.

Your assumption that people saw and described Jesus is faulty. You don't assume in this kind of thing cos it might turn out that you are bowing to an ordinary man.

italo:

Thats where you miss it. We dont refer to the images as one person. We refer to them as images of "one person."

An image is not the person and is not supposed to be the person. It is only made to resemble the person as much as possible.

The same way your pictures are not you and can look different from one another. They are only pictures of you, not you.

Also using images does not mean that we are not worshipping in spirit and truth. Otherwise the woman with issue of blood could be said to worship Jesus' garment.

The difference is very clear. Different persons whose images you refer to as one person. My pictures might differ but whoever looks at it will say that this is still boomark.

But this is like the case of the images of Boomark and Obasanjo referred to as the images of one person. How i wish someone can post the different pictures of Jesus. Who authorised the making of such images.

The woman exercised faith in Jesus and does not know what is means to worship God in spirit and in truth.

Ubenedictus: unfortunately galatians doesn't has any reference to genesis 2.
Sarah isn't the woman who gave birth to the messiah. Sorry she of genesis nor of jeremiah or isaiah.

And this how you debunked the bible verse i gave you out of your own imagination?

All you want someone that will say it is Mary whether true or false. With Sarah and hagar in mind, read Gal 4:25-26 and see how Sarah corresponds to the free Jerusalem which is the mother of us all and how Hagar correspond to the Jerusalem in bondage. Jerusalem is the woman.

You should be thanking me No! Thank God for me.

Ubenedictus:
have you seen the real thing without it shadow before? I bet you have a shadow too, right?
Christ fulfilled the old covenant and rendered it void, but the new covenant will be an illusion if it was something without a shadow. That is why you have both old and new covenant in your bible.
If the old covenant had images i'm not shocked the new covenant has both images and a better understanding of it.

I am actually shocked that the images have different/random faces which you guys refer to as one person.

In God's standard, things are made to His specification not by human imagination. Besides in the new covenant, Christ said true worshipers must worship God in spirit and in truth. Don't you know that?

Ubenedictus: the bible wasn't written in english my dear! So go and learn a little greek.

I don't practice lawlessness. Adding, remove and making things null and void as it pleases me.

Syncan:

I decided to leave you with your conscience after saying that Jesus stay at the right hand of the father is temporary. Just as I left you with that terrible lie that a woman who laughed at Gods promise of a son, a woman who Abraham had to hide his intention on isaac from, etc, is your woman of Gen3:15. I state my points and discuss when people talk honestly. I have gone through pages with you in honest discussions, not when cheap lies come to play, just for the purpose of argument.

You just labeled me a liar when you don't have any fact to back up what you believe in and i have not even started to off load what i have.

Truth is light and cannot be covered. Should i give you a hint of what you would have been up against because of your believe that the woman is Mary. Erm! No. I really want to see how the woman is Mary.

Reasoning from the scripture, that is my style.

chukwudi44:

I have already told you we do not practise bible alone doctrine of martin luther.We existed before the bible and had the privilege of hearing from some of the people who witnessed this events.

If you have the privilege of listening to those that Paul described as false teachers during his time, you will be in trouble, not to talk of those who live long after his death.

I don't know Martin Luther. By reading the bible you will understand the importance of basing your doctrine on bible alone. That is why everything goes in catholic. They cannot separate falsehood from the truth and they believe everything that comes their way.

chukwudi44:

Did u not see this

"And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made."

And this

"And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets"

E be like say u know sabi read.

The problem no be to read, na to understand wetin you dey read.

New International Version (©2011)
"Therefore let all Israel be assured
of this: God has made this Jesus,
whom you crucified, both Lord and
Messiah."

voilà! Did you see who made him Lord? All Israel knew their God but they did not know Jesus who God made Lord over all.

Lord over all? Does that include God Himself who made him Lord? No! If you have understanding, Read 1Cor 15:27-28. Do you now see the beauty of having understanding?

italo:

The people that wrote the creed are the ones that included 1Corinthians and discarded Acts of Peter from the Bible they compiled.

If the Trinity is wrong, the Bible is wrong.

Even with the wayo of removing and adding, One God still remains the Father. May be they forgot to remove that one.

How can you be telling me that in the public? What they compiled was what others wrote so they have no say in what was written and cannot modify it. Trinity was nowhere found in what they compiled. Even the "the 3 person in one God" they want us to believe by force is at large. they cannot squeeze lies into what they compiled.

Ubenedictus: hehehe, so sarah is the young woman prophesied in genesis, isaiah, jeremiah, to bring forth the son of God?
You disappoint me.

Your brothers could not confidently correct me. They don't like things that comes with questions.

The woman in Rev 12 is what i desire to know from you. Have you been able to know who she is?

Have you read Gal 4:21-31? It solved the issue of the woman in Genesis and Rev.

Ubenedictus: a shadow is the imitation of a particular reality. It is not the real thing but it gives us an a replica of the reality. The old is a shadow of the new.
Can you now figure it out?

So how is this different from what i wrote above or is it because i used the word "something"...that is not the real thing.

Go for the real thing, that is where we are now not the shadow. The real thing came in its fullness(Christ fulfilment of the old) not half half or with some missing part that you can patch with the shadows.

chukwudi44:

Bros leave that matter for mathias.You are merely speculating.The fact of the matter is that the bible did not tell us whether that marriage was consumated or not.

And your church went about spreading false belief that she remained a virgin. Where did they get that one? That was why Mathias told me that you have been believing a lie.

Do you want the bible to explain HOW their marriage was consumated before you believe they did what God prepared for the enjoyment of husband and wife?

Una dey tight corner, no escape.

What our brain should be giving us is that there is "One God, the Father" as it is in the Nicene creed which is according to 1Cor 8:5-6. Not that there is 3 persons in one God which is not written anywhere. May be those who wrote that creed never understood what they wrote.

italo: Maybe boomark or one of the other anti-Catholics will see it. They have a way of seeing what is not there...and not seeing what is there.

See what? Syncan failed with his proves. Do you have any other one? What is written is very clear.

chukwudi44:

You talk as if you were there when the marriage was consumated!! Do you have any prove to that?

I believe the word inspired by the Holyspirit. if you don't, its not my fault. This is the English meaning, if that is the problem.

Main Entry: until
Function:conjunction
Date: 14th century
:up to the time that:up to such time as
<play continued until it got dark>
<never able to relax until he took up fishing>
<ran until she was breathless>

preposition&conjunction
up to (the point in time or the event mentioned):
[as preposition]:
the kidnappers have given us until October 11th to deliver the documents
he held the office until his death
[as conjunction]:
you don’t know what you can achieve until you try

Up to the time of his birth, they never had intercourse but they(Mary and Joseph) did it after his birth. God did not prevent them from enjoying their marriage.

It still stands as truth.

italo:

The man showed you Bible passages showing the manner in which "until" was used...

And he asked a simple question in his post.

Are you capable of answering it with honesty and clarity?

I think not...

that twist can bamboozle an honest man. He did not fully understand the passages he quoted.

She was a virgin untill they had intercourse after the birth of Jesus. You can't twist it.

Syncan:
!


Do compare with this and see the use of until

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until[b] I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Does it mean Jesus will cease to be at the Father's right hand after the enemies are made His footstool?


Also look at:

Genesis 8:7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, [b]until[b] the waters were dried up from off the earth.

[b]The raven never came back, which led to the sending of the dove in verse 8.

Did you not see that it goes "to" and "fro"(going and returning). That was even when the water have not yet dried up. Did it drown? Smh This has canceled you reason.

concerning Heb1:13 read my favourite, 1Cor 15:28. God will be all in all. For now He has a representative who mediate between Him and men, who ask for the forgiveness our sins. By that time all these thing will no longer be there cos there will be no sin etc. This has canceled your reason cos you never proved that he will continue to sit at His right hand after his enemies have been defeated.

It still stands that Joseph had intercourse with Mary after the birth of Jesus.

^of course. See more proof here.

Matthew 1:25
New International Version (©2011)
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. AndJoseph named him Jesus.

English Standard Version (©2001)
but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

You must not believe everything in the bible cos you were coached not to believe the truth.

What we are doing is for those that might not know before they enter. Those who are there already, man cannot help. I have proffered solution and a way out for them. Dissociate yourselves from all man made idols and God may be merciful.

Sal C: Those who are arguing if Jesus had other brothers or not should consider the following Bible portion, hopefully it will give us an insight into our quest.

Matt13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren James and Joses and Simon and Judas?
The above verse shows that the four people mentioned are Jesus' brethren or say brother.

Another verse of the bible to look at is..

Gal1:19 But other of the apostles saw I non, save James the Lord's brother.

This shows that James the Lord's brother is also an apostle of Jesus Christ.

Now a quick glance at the list of the 12 apostles to confirm who is actually the Lord's brother.

Mark3:16-19 And Simon he surnamed Peter.

17 And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James, and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is The sons of thunder.

18 And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Mathew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite.

19 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.

Here we can easily observe that there are two apostles named James. One is the son of Zebedee and the other the son of Alphaeus, surprisingly non is mentioned as the Lord's brother.

Now the question is, Which apostle James is the Lord's brother and how?

Mark 6:3 KJV
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

benedicta0: go and pray for wisdom to understand if u like quote verses to match ur claim

here comes ubenedictus' wife.

chukwudi44:

We are on the 14th thread and you are yet to convince even a donkey!! I really feel for you.

Go and ask your brother frosbel.After more than 400 threads and 4000 posts against the RCC he is yet to convert even an ant.His level of frustration after all this years are driving him mad.You think the RCC is like all this mushroom and apron wearing churches whoose members lack conviction of their faith.

delusion unstoppable. That is what it is.

Boomark: Abraham's seed. Sarah is his wife. They are husband and wife. Sarah is the woman not Mary.

Those who think otherwise should prove it otherwise from the scripture. Waiting...

This goes to show that they have been believing a lie for more than 1000 years.

I also debunked their claim that Mary is ark of the covenant. Another lie of more than 1256 years 3 months.

Smh!!!

@4everGod
Good work.

When i say all those who have been purposed to be deluded(2 thessalonians 12:11) cannot be helped by men, they thought i hate them.

Christ is the Angel/messenger of the new covenant, malachi 3:1. He is not the covenant that is carried by the Ark. To say that Mary is the Ark of the covenant is sheer ignorance and the works of delusion(ie believing a lie).

Hebrews 9:16-18
16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.17 For a covenant is validonlywhen men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood.

could you believe that most/all the catholic church fathers and their scholars never knew that the covenant was made 1st, Ex 24:8 before the Ark, Ex 25. That without shedding of blood, there is no covenant. How can Mary be carrying a covenant that does not exist? And the follow follow people believe these things sheepishly.

The 1st step to remove themselves from this delusion is to do away with all man-made images(idol) they kneel and bow to. No body will slap you Catholics if you worship God in spirit and in truth. For now, reading is not the 1st cos you will read and still believe a lie.

SMH Small small.

Can't view the document. This is not about doing what you convincingly think is right but having knowing the truth.

You will always be taught what you want to hear and be shocked by the truth you never knew. About the blessed trinity, You need to study again.

Syncan:


Hahaha, Bookmark! Only the truth shall set you free. I shall wait for my friend shdemidemi to help you out on this. Lol.

I believe demi saw it and he is also waiting for you people to say the truth of the matter.

So for now, this is the truth. Sarah is the woman not Mary.

Syncan:


"All scripture", even the love song of God, the songs of song is profitable for me. Well, I guess its not same for you. Sorry then, I love every thing about my beloved, I am not ashamed that He condescended to dwell in a mere "Woman", hence, making her, His mother. Nor do I deny that my God took a form that I can see, touch, draw and paint.

Is not good you know your beloved according to the truth? I have no problems with your songs. The problem is when you bring it up to cover what you don't know, don't want to know and cannot teach.

So you have seen God and can draw him?

4everGod: I was using one of my IDs "naijadeyhia" right now and because of this expose i got banned and now i switched to my other ID "4everGod" and I just received an anonymous phone call from a male who warned me that I risk harming myself and my family if i do not desist from my deep probing of the catholic church!!! MY GOD!


So the truth is getting to some people. Well if that person who called me is reading this note. I WILL NEVER STOP UNTIL JESUS COMES!! SO YOU CAN TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT!!!

make the person call me na make i see? The truth must be told as it is. It is always difficult to defend lies.

Pastor kun easy o. Bidam you too are guilty of insulting people too. Should we continue like this?

Pygru:
I did

we can never disagree to that. The 2nd daft person should signify. I nominate(suspect) OL......u.

Abraham's seed. Sarah is his wife. They are husband and wife. Sarah is the woman.

Those who think otherwise should prove it otherwise from the scripture. Waiting...

Bidam: Have you lost your sense of reasoning? Stick to post,what do you understand by the word shadow.

Something that is not real. Shadow of something: something that is not the real thing.

I hope you will not sing love songs to me like syncan as we proceed?

ekenedegreat: @ boomark and shdemidemi, u guys re wonderful in scriptures and I luv u guys for dat.
@italo and sync, why do u catholics luv beating around d bush when captured in a tight coner? Or,is it becos of d so called delusion? It is a pity dat d bible u ve been bragging of being compiled by ur church/fathers is now strange to u and ur cohorts to understand. otherwise, where is d scriptural backing of ur idle worship,rosary, worshiping of saints?
Another question is can u tell/show us in d bible where jesus introduced d hail mary prayer or dat mary is d right person to intercede for us (humans) I mentiond jesus becos he is d father of christianity we re suppose to follow his foot steps and not dat of roman empire. D same jesus said dat he is d only way 2 d father dat no one comes to d father except through him.
Pls can u and ur cohorts answer dis question witout beating around d bush dis time?

Thank you bro. It always gladden my heart to put them in tight corner for the world to see their delusion clearly.