ayoku777:

The jews know that the scripture called people Gods, but no one was ever Jehovah except Jehovah. By the way judges that were called elohim and even Moses too, did that amount to blasphemy?

You need to calm down. You linked the name of God to Jesus from "I and my are One." by that you want us to believe that:
Jesus is Jehovah

now that we are one with Jesus as he is one with the Father, does that not mean we bear the same name?

So the Jews that knew that they have one God did not even they are Gods and wanted to stone Jesus out of ignorance.

We are one with Christ just as he is one with the Father. So what do you call us then? Don't give God's name to any other because of what the Jews are thinking.

Chibuebem: i think it came from John chapter 1: verses 1 to 5. And then verse 14.

Error!
I don't assume. We are talking about the qualities of the invisible God(which He gives) in verse18 not sitting arrangement or who was with who.

DrummaBoy:

This is something I am not about to rush into believing or not. Remember I still consider myself trinitarian but I appreciate the argument that emphasizes the Father as the Almighty God more from this discourse. Those threads can be difficult to peruse but I would make time for them. But you could chip in your own thoughts too on the theses "Jesus is Deity but not God (the Father)".

Thanks.

You're welcome bro. At your convenience, just go through them. I posted the page link to where i explained them so you don't have to go through the thread searching for them.

Understanding Godhead as it is in the scripture is the solution to your question. This is not the full details:

Boomark:

Godhead is the divine nature of God ie something like his qualities. You don't go into His nature to look for any spirit. He owns the Godhead and He gives it to whomever He wants.

Romans 1:19-20
King James Version (KJV)
19 Because that which may be
known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him
from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by
the things that are made, even his
eternal power and Godhead; so
that they are without excuse:

Col 2:9[b]
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.[/b]

Do you see how wrong your trinity doctrine is. Jesus did not step out of Godhead in the flesh. Its fullness dwelt in him bodily(in flesh). have you ever wondered who told the trinitarians that Godhead consist of 3 persons? where did that come from?

@Drummerboy

I like the way you stuck with knowing the truth even when philosophers are here trying laugh/convince you.

If you don't know the meaning of Godhead, you will not understand what this means "Jesus is a deity but not God(the Father). Non has ever countered it since i started showing them the true meaning of Godhead(the nature of the Father) which they erroneously believe consist of 3 persons.

Even when put on your trinity nature, you will be just helpless against it. It is a solid rock not philosophy of men. You will be surprised to also know those who are in Christ have the fullness of the Godhead in them through Christ. Just go and see them below.

www.nairaland.com/1318987/trinitarian-disrespect-god/9

www.nairaland.com/1127181/jesus-christ-servant-god-trinity/12

talk2chichi: what do you know about the truth, you know nothing about the truth, Nnatom stop because your questions don't deserve an answer.

And you can't say something about the truth. Little little questions they answer.

Is Jesus Lord over Mary? *i can see her shivering*

I have always known dishonest people can't answer my questions. Are you now representing nnatom?

SMH!!! For chitom.

Ubenedictus: and you are telling me that jerusalem above gave birth to a son! Try again.

Are you the one that made that post? Try again.

That is what they say when they have no say. Delusion at work.

.

Enigma: A little fun in the interregnum of waiting for the protagonists.

Argument: because Jesus is a "mediator" between God and men, then he himself cannot be "God".

Pretty obvious counter: On above argument, if Jesus is mediator between God and men, then he himself cannot be "man".

Biblical revelation: Jesus is God eternally; Jesus incarnated as man.

Conclusion: Jesus is God-man, therefore he is most apposite to mediate between God and man.

Error! You will jubliate but not when am here.

Don't you know the difference between the man Jesus and men. The man Jesus is without sin while men are sinners. Son of God and sons of God no be mate.

Why he is mediating is to plead for sinners. If the mediator is a sinner, then you can put him in the category of men as you are happily doing.

If Jesus is the mediator between God and men, does this God include Jesus? How many persons are in this God? A question all trinitarians can afford to dodge.

striktlymi:

Did Christ teach that people do not need to be circumcised? Did he approve the 'relics' of St. Paul before people used them to gain their healing?


Yes! His Apostles teach that! Unlike you, I do not believe that Apostleship ended with the twelve...even Judas was replaced. Christ did not build his church only for it to go extinct after the death of the 12.

I also do not believe that the holy spirit has stopped directing the present day Apostles.

...and this is supposed to mean?

I can see that the wave of delusion has already caught up with you. Look at the question i asked.

So Christ taught people to bow and kneel before his image? Did any of his disciple teach that?

You answered YES without evidence. Is that what they teach you in church?

Who was the 13th disciple? Concerning the relic, i don't want to go into the issue of people that keep and worship a dead man's meat as a relic. So disgusting.

Paul was lucky, if it were these days some people would have cut off the hands he use in healing people and keep it as relic cos they believe there is power in his hands.

talk2chichi: you should be the one to change your church, I don't think they are teaching you the right thing, discard all that you believe and start afresh as a catholic. Thanks

make una see chichi o! You are just good at telling people "i pity you, i pray for you, go and read your bible" but you actually have nothing to offer in the sense that you don't want to believe the truth and cannot offer it.

Nnatom bolted away because of my questions. Can you help him since they are teaching you the right thing?

Syncan:

Hahaha, Which new truth have you revealed? that Abraham is the woman of Gen3:15? Or that the covenant was not with Abram but with Sarah? Your post at best serves as comic relief.

And where did you see me write these things? Una love for twisting the scriptures and people's innocent words is unfathomable. Smh!!! For those that don't know how to face the truth.

In Gen3:15, God was clear, "the woman" He said also "her seed". The particular woman even as a thought, a dream of God, has already entered into enemity with the devil. Such a woman can only be described as having the fullness of grace. Sarah was not, she laughed at the angel's prophesy, which was actually more than what caused Zechariah his speech. Even Abraham had to hide his intention on Isaac from her. Mary was called "Full of grace".

Its obvious you don't know what to say. "as a thought, a dream of God" when did God dream dreams about the woman being already in enmity with the devil? You are just imagining what you want.

Even after sarah was long dead, the prophets continued to wait for the woman and her seed. See Is7:14

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a
sign. Look, the young woman is with child
and shall bear a son, and shall name him
Immanuel". NRSV

Aha did he just identify the seed? And "the woman too? you didn't see that, did you?

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Therefore the Lord himself shall giveyou a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

"A virgin shall conceive" you just identified a virgin that will give birth to a son. We are looking at the woman and the seed according to the promise. You cannot fix Mary in Rev 12. You are also telling the world that Mary is not part of God's children cos the seed includes Christ and all the children of God.

Is there any need talking about Jesus himself, Who continued calling her "Woman" in order for you not to be in this folly? Yet you will not hear. You'll rather prefer to have a disrespectful Jesus as a model for your children.

What about Gal4:4, further identification of the seed and the woman.

Jesus is a seed of sarah just as absolom, ahab etc are as well. When we talk about Jesus and Mary, we talk of the woman and her only seed, who is God Is9:6.

Indeed false prophets and teachers shall arise in the last days.

Eve was referred to as the woman, Gen 3:13. Adam called eve the woman v12. Does this make Eve the woman we are looking for? No! Of course Christ will come out of a woman not out of a man. Women give birth to children. Did you not see how i connected everyone involved in the promise? Do the same or you have nothing to offer.

Mary is not the woman, Jerusalem above is our mother and she is the woman.

italo:

So you dont know that the camera is just an advanced technology of making images?

That is why it is closer to perfect, unlike sculptures.

Do you know that there are now machines that can take your dimensions and produce sculptures that are exactly like you?

If these were available in the time of Jesus, all the sculptures would probably be alike.

They are all imperfect images. Period.

Open your mind.

And who commanded who to make the image of Jesus? Paul said we don't know him anymore and should not regard him in the flesh. Catholics disobey this admonition by making images which they are not even sure who it is.

Have you not heard that those who do that are in the category of those that worshiped Paul as god out of ignorance.

My mind is very very sealed to idol worship.

chukwudi44:

I was just wondering if rebuke has found a new meaning in the dictionary.Here is what I found

re·buke - /riˈbyo͞ok/
Verb:
1. Express sharp disapproval or criticism of (someone) because of their behavior or actions
Noun:
1. An expression of sharp disapproval or criticism

The last time I checked nothing of such happened between Jesus and Mary in the bible.

rebuke/correct, that's how i wrote it. Why not look up for "correction." Jesus corrected her on matters concerning his ministry which she did not understand. Abi?

nnatom:

my brother stop dis thing u say. Have u heard any body saying she is greater dan christ.

And for d first commandment u quoted, i hope u understand English very well. We don' worship her, neither hav we called her our God cos if we do we'll nt ask for her intercession rather we ask her for our need straight.

Note this, we are never and will never worship her, pls get dat into ur head and stop missing up the honour and worship thing. After all u bow and even lie down for ur kings and obas, does dat mean u worship them.

This not what i expect from you. I asked you some questions and expect you to either agree or disagree with me.

This is a cheap way to dodge my questions. I don't cut corners. If you cannot answer me then it is worthy that you discard all that you believe as a catholic and start afresh but not as a catholic. I don't like throwing words here and there. Answer me or we end the discussion knowing fully well that you can't offer anything.

CAMEROONPRIDE: ^^^ u are a fool ... ur trash doesn't prove anything .

try this

She was the first to be rebuked/corrected by the 12 year old. Follow Christ in spirit not molded images.

nnatom:

read it carefully again, luke1:43. Why am i so favoured dat d mother of my lord shld come to me.
Listen to dat, THE MOTHER OF MY LORD SHOULD COME TO ME.
If this doesn't sound clear to u, let me put on a clear note.

Is she nt highly blessed for her to be given dat great opportunity to carry and nurse our lord and saviour for d purpose of our redemption.

To crown it up, in luke1:48 she said and i quote, Henceforth, i.e from now on, all generations,including ours o,shall call me BLESSED.

My brother, let stop dis ranting and give her dat honour, she deserves it. Even God honoured her by giving her d opportunity to carry his only begotten Son.

My brother shey e easy? No, no be moi moi.

Have you seen anyone that says Mary is not blessed? Mary is blessed. Have i not called her blessed?

Jesus also said that all who do the will of the Father is blessed. Therefore i am blessed too. Do you disagree with him and me?

Do you agree that our Lord is Lord over all including Mary?

It is a sin to make the image of an unknown persons whom you call Mary to honour her(kneeling and bowing to it) and call her blessed through man-made images. Who gave you that command?

It is either you agree with these things i have written or you disagree with them. Don't just go and start quoting what you think you know as a reply to these things.

ayoku777:

Nice and on point!

Thanks bro.

The truth is been revealed these last days. Let all weigh what they have been believing for soo long.

The Woman is Jerusalem(Sarah) Not Mary

Genesis 3:15
New King James Version (NKJV)
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

the seed(not seed) of Satan are those who live according to the flesh. The see of the woman is Christ and all the children of God.

Galatians 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.

Galatians 3:29
New International Version (NIV)
29 If you belong to Christ,then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As a result of being one with Christ, we too are Abraham's seed. I once showed my friend that we have the fullness of Godhead in us through Christ due to oneness with him. I and my Lord are one.

Romans 9:7-9
King James Version (KJV)
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Galatians 4:22-26
New International Version (NIV)
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave womanand the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to theflesh,but his son by the free woman was born as the result of adivine promise.
24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women representtwo covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: Thisis Hagar.25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.26 But the Jerusalem that is aboveis free,and she is our mother.

Galatians 4:31
New International Version (NIV)
31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

Hagar is the slave woman and she corresponds to Jerusalem here on earth. Sarah is the free woman and she corresponds to Jerusalem above. Jerusalem above is free and she is our mother(the woman and mother of the children of God and Christ). This things were spoken, relating Jerusalem above to the SEED.

Rev 12:17
American King James Version
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, whichkeep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The woman is the mother of her seed. The remnant of her seed are the children of God and Galatians made us understand that Jerusalem is our mother, ie mother of the seed. This shows that Jerusalem above is the woman not Mary as Catholics erroneously teach.

nnatom:

u sound like an illiterat,whats ur point. Pls read luke1:43 and clear ur eye.

Ok...my eyes are shining.

Luke 1:43
New International Version (©2011)
But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

How does this translate to mother of the Most High God? Does it mean you people always favor twisting than saying things as they are. You enjoy giving rat a cow leg.

I repeat, who is the father of the Most High God. With Bible references please.

striktlymi: ^^^

Quite true!!!

Some of her teachings are very unpalatable, just like some of the teachings of Christ but yet she still continues to teach this very difficult truth.

So Christ taught people to bow and kneel before his image? Did any of his disciple teach that?

SMH!!! For the hard truth.

striktlymi: ^^^

Quite true!!!

Some of her teachings are very unpalatable, just like some of the teachings of Christ but yet she still continues to teach this very difficult truth.

So Christ taught people to bow and kneel before his image? Did any of his disciple teach that?

SMH!!! For the hard truth.

Ubenedictus: sorry my dear, the catholic church isn't one of those protestant churches where they tell u what u want to hear.
What we teach is the truth, and if he studies again i'm confident that if he is sincere he will arrive at the same conclusion.

Yes that because he studied what he was given and believe it as true. Let him study with me and i will ask him one question for you to see him stam....

I will start with Godhead and it will end quick quick.

talk2chichi: don't compare Mary the Mother of the Most High God with yourself ok, she is far honoured than you or every other person are.

One of the worst i have ever seen. The Father of the Most High God nko?

Tufiakwa!

Ubenedictus: a cheap insult, i choose to ignore.
It seem you could takle my response so you had to resort to this.
You were unable to show how the woman in genesis 2 relates to sarah and your response to that failure is d above.
Weldone.

Sorry my brother. I was just waiting for you to show me how it was Mary is the woman but you were just giving me genesis 2, Isaiah, Jeremiah and i could not see anything.

I will try and link them up for you later today. From genesis to Revelation if possible.

Cheers!

Ubenedictus: are you saying the holyspirit described the cherub to the artist? Please be clear.
Beside my belief in the person of the holyspirit personal and communal, that means i believe it and share that believe with other christians. The last time i check u guys said d holyspirit is 'God's active force.

I see you guys are doubting God with powerful wave of unbelief. God said it will be made according to his specification, do you doubt that? How did they know what a cherub is and its features? Or you think it was made out of mere man's imagination? Don't you believe that God can guide them in making the Ark which is special to Him?

The Holyspirit is the power of God. Haven't you seen that before.

ofcourse a man is regard according to the spirit and that isn't a prohibition my dear, against images. Your insinuation on type of people are simply your ill informed opinion.

it is not an assumption, there are images of christ dating to the earlier times of christianity, that christ was described isn't an assumption but a conclusion based on historic and archelogical facts.

2 Corinthians 5:16.
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth we know him no more.

Delusion has caused more harm than good. Catholics don't heed the truth. Do you think that the apostles that knew about this will go on describing how Christ is so that people will make his image? No!

You don't regard Christ according to the flesh through images which you now use to connect and get closer to him. Those who do this are in the same category with those who worshiped Paul as god. They can easily make his image, saying to themselves, "this is god with us." these are people that have affinity for idol worship.

the images you all make is not that of Christ. If you go on looking for his skeleton and wrapper to use and form his image, then you are not obedient to his words through the apostles.

Ubenedictus: sorry my dear sarah is an allegory, a symbol of the new jerusalem, that doesn't in any way mean that the woman in genesis 2 is sarah. Your explanation of scripture is flawed, my dear.

Ok...i will wait for you to ask Rome what to say on the matter.

Ubenedictus: it is interesting that God didn't didn't show moses the faces of the cherubs he asked him to mould. At least people saw Jesus and could describe his features, i could imagine moses telling an artist to mould a cherub the artist had never seen only height and width, that was the specifications!

Besides tell me what you understand by the term "in spirit and in truth".
That aside the main variation in the ancient artworks i know are mainly of art not mainly of features.

"I can imagine Moses writing things he never witness." these are the words of unbelievers. When you say you believe in the Holyspirit, is it for mouth or mere recitation of nicene creed?

With regard to Christ,The apostles said "we regard no man according to the flesh" those who take this advice will never make an image of him. Those who can possibly do that are the type that worshiped Paul, calling him god despite his warning. This is where you borrow what you practice.

Your assumption that people saw and described Jesus is faulty. You don't assume in this kind of thing cos it might turn out that you are bowing to an ordinary man.

italo:

Thats where you miss it. We dont refer to the images as one person. We refer to them as images of "one person."

An image is not the person and is not supposed to be the person. It is only made to resemble the person as much as possible.

The same way your pictures are not you and can look different from one another. They are only pictures of you, not you.

Also using images does not mean that we are not worshipping in spirit and truth. Otherwise the woman with issue of blood could be said to worship Jesus' garment.

The difference is very clear. Different persons whose images you refer to as one person. My pictures might differ but whoever looks at it will say that this is still boomark.

But this is like the case of the images of Boomark and Obasanjo referred to as the images of one person. How i wish someone can post the different pictures of Jesus. Who authorised the making of such images.

The woman exercised faith in Jesus and does not know what is means to worship God in spirit and in truth.

Ubenedictus: unfortunately galatians doesn't has any reference to genesis 2.
Sarah isn't the woman who gave birth to the messiah. Sorry she of genesis nor of jeremiah or isaiah.

And this how you debunked the bible verse i gave you out of your own imagination?

All you want someone that will say it is Mary whether true or false. With Sarah and hagar in mind, read Gal 4:25-26 and see how Sarah corresponds to the free Jerusalem which is the mother of us all and how Hagar correspond to the Jerusalem in bondage. Jerusalem is the woman.

You should be thanking me No! Thank God for me.

Ubenedictus:
have you seen the real thing without it shadow before? I bet you have a shadow too, right?
Christ fulfilled the old covenant and rendered it void, but the new covenant will be an illusion if it was something without a shadow. That is why you have both old and new covenant in your bible.
If the old covenant had images i'm not shocked the new covenant has both images and a better understanding of it.

I am actually shocked that the images have different/random faces which you guys refer to as one person.

In God's standard, things are made to His specification not by human imagination. Besides in the new covenant, Christ said true worshipers must worship God in spirit and in truth. Don't you know that?

Ubenedictus: the bible wasn't written in english my dear! So go and learn a little greek.

I don't practice lawlessness. Adding, remove and making things null and void as it pleases me.