Polls upon polls, studies upon studies and facts upon facts shows that Christians are the most persecuted religious group in the world today. Christianity is facing elimination in its Biblical homeland. Between a half and two-thirds of Christians in the Middle East have departed or been killed over the past century. Short attributes the intolerance and violence towards Christians to the rising Islamicization of Middle Eastern countries. Some of the oppression is government sanctioned and some government permitted; most is government ignored

Take a look at this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytdMUddGe-U

Tunjasko: why are dey treating d B.ASTARD....dey shuld have scatter hiz brain wt a bomb.....

OPERATION KILL BOKO HARAM!!!

They need intelligence

bakandow11

I think i can come in now, my brothers it goes a long way when you sit down and ask yourself some questions which will lead to a good research. WHY MUSLIMS LIKE THIS? WHAT DOES QURAN TEACHES, after being born as a muslim i had to at a certain time sit down and ask myself WHAT IF MY DAD WAS WRONG ABOUT RELIGION. i believe each and everyone of us should do thesame, then you will learn and find out the truth about islam (peace) ....then why war.

I agree with you. I think everyone of us should do an objective research about their beliefs. I used to be a Muslim but I am no more for several reasons

please am on the research WHY XTAINS EAT PORK despite wat leviticus 11:7-9 says. so to round up pls sit down do some research abt the concept of islam then you will foundout if all dis boko haram and iss stuff is political or not.

If you understand the Christian teachings of Jesus then you will understand how the laws of the old testament fits into Christian lives. The laws in Leviticus and Deutoronomy were the laws of Moses and the Jews couldn't live up to it. For example, the laws of Moses taught that if you commit adultery, you should be stoned to death. The law of God - 10 commandments doesn't issue a punishment but tells us not to commit adultery.

Christians look at Jesus teaching on the subject; instead of obeying the law of Moses that encourages stoning of adultery, He set a new precedence - don't do it again, you are forgiven. Christians take the same approach to the issue of pork - Jews were under the law of Moses and restricted with certain food laws, as a Christian; you can decide to eat pork or not; it's up to you. However, the teachings are clear on the subject:

[b]Matthew 15:17-20
"Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." KJV

Mark 7:15-19
"There is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. [" If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."] When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.) NASB[/b]

Personally I don't eat pork for health reasons but if it was the only food in the world and I had no other choice, I would eat it. However, eating it isn't sin

Abdulsalam20

AS I HAVE SAID MUHAMMAD WAS NEVER POSSESED BY SATAN I GAVE U ENOUGH EVIDENCE IF U READ THE VERSE NEXT TO IT I WILL SEE THAT ALL THESE IDOL ARE CONDEMNED BUT YOUR PROBLEM IS U ALWAYS REPEAT ONE POINT YOU SEE I CANT BLAME YOU MAN BY NATURE IS A POLITICAL ANIMAL EXCEPT FEW.........I DONT ARGUE WITH GOONS AFTER GLARING EVIDENCE PROVIDED FOR YOU U STILL DENY IT............. I LAUGH AT U BECAUSE U SAID NO PROPHET RECEIVE A REVELATION FROM GOD THROUGH ANGEL I PROVED YOU WRONG AND YOU WENT AHEAD TODENY YOUR STATEMENT.........YOU SAID CHRISTIANITY EXIST BEFORE ISLAM THEN OBIOUSLY YOU ARE WRONG EVEN JESUS NEVER KNOW WHAT IS CHRISTIANITY ALL THE PROPHETS PREACH THAT THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE GOD U SAID IT IS THREE

Your problem is that you do not know history. You are blinded by religious dogma. I employ you to do personal research and find out if Christianity existed before Islam. You come here an talk but provide no reference. Christianity is over 600 years older than Islam. The Bible existed over 600 years before the Quran was compiled - idiots like you will refuse to believe that but unfortunately for you; history is not on your side.

I won't engage in the doctrine of the Trinity with you; you have formatted your brain and chosen not to understand. We Christians believe in one God compare that to Islam that bows down to a stone in Mecca every year. Mohammad kissed the black stone when Allah told you guys in the Quran that you shouldn't venerate or bow down to any image or stone. Yet you have the audacity to open your mouth and call others pagans.

You have provided no evidence, you copied and pasted the commentaries from early Islamic sources. However, those same historians made it clear that Mohammad endorsed the Satanic verses to have the favor of his tribe. You can't hide from history Bros

i even follow jesus more than u think jesus condemn payment
of interesr when we try to establish islamic banking with
interest free loan CAN OPPOSED IT reference l- Imran
{3:130} “O ye who believed! Devour not usury, doubling and
quadrupling (the sum lent). Observe your duty to Allah, that
ye may be successful.” Another message is repeated in:
Surah, Al-Baqara {2:188} “And eat not up your property
among yourselves in vanity, nor seek by it to gain the
hearing of the judges that ye may knowingly devour a portion
of the property of others wrongfully.” What does the Christian
book has to say concerning Interest and Bribery? Is it really
there in the Bible? Yes! Why is C.A.N against it? I don’t
know……….. Then, they are the Biggest Anti-Christ that I have
ever seen…………..

Look at this malu, who is talking about banking here? Jesus gave the golden rule Bros - treat others as you expect to be treated. That is found nowhere in the Quran. Please stick to the subject and start talking about rubbish

Exodus 23:8 "And thou shalt take no bribe:
for a bribe blindeth them that have sight, and ruins the cause
of those who are the righteous.” Warning against Bribery!
What about Interest? Let’s examine this verse again: Exodus
22:25 “If thou lend money to any of my people with thee that
is poor, thou shalt not be to him as a creditor; neither shall
ye lay upon him interest.” Similar message is also repeated
in the Book of Deuteronomy: Deuteronomy 23:19 "Thou shalt
not lend upon interest to thy brother; interest of money,
interest of victuals, interest of anything that is lent upon
interest.” THE BIBLE SAID U SHOULD COVER UR HEAD U
OPPOSE IT( 1 Corinthians 11:5, says that “Every woman who
prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her
head, for that is one and the same as if her head were
shaved) WHEN AREGBESHOLA RAISED THE ISSUE OF
COVERING HEAD IN OSUN CAN OPPOSE IT WHAT AN ANTI
CHRIST i know u will said it is only when they want topray
pls dont children pray in school on assembly ground.....dont
they pray before eating?......all christians nowadays are anti
christ THE BIBLE SAID WOMEN SHOULD NOT TALK IN
CHURCH U PEOPLE WENT TO ORGANISE CHOIR EVEN NOW
WOMEN ARE NOW PASTORS( - I Corinthians 14:34-35: Let
your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not
permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be
under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn
any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a
shame for women to speak in the church.) JESUS PRAY U
NEVER DID THAT INSTEAD U CRITICISE MUSLIMS FOR
BOWING THEIR HEAD( DISCRIPTION OF SOLAT IN THE
BIBLE "Ezra the scribe stood on a high wooden platform
(ready for solat) that had been made for the occasion. To his
right stood Mattithiah, Shema, Anaiah, Uriah, Hilkiah, and
Maaseiah. To his left stood Pedaiah, Mishael, Malkijah,
Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah, and
Meshullam." (Nehemiah 8:4)."And Ezra opened the book in
the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people
(imam) and when he opened it, all the people stood
up:" (Nehemiah 8:5)."Then Ezra praised the LORD(takbiratul
iram), the great God, and all the people chanted, "Amen!
Amen!" as they lifted their hands. Then they bowed down
(rukuh) and worshiped the LORD with their faces to the
ground(sujud)." (Nehemiah 8:6).......DID U DO THIS? WHAT
AN ANTICHRIST....

Your problem is that you are not coherent. You probably have read the Bible or try to but you are doing so from an imam or youtube . Since these are not related matters to this post; I will ignore you.

Here is evidence from your Hadith that Mohammad was possessed and under a witch spell:

Narrated Aisha:
Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400)

Narrated Aisha:
Magic was worked on Allah's Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not (Sufyan said: That is the hardest kind of magic as it has such an effect). Then one day he said, "O ‘Aisha do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other, ‘What is wrong with this man?’ The latter replied he is under the effect of magic. The first one asked, ‘Who has worked magic on him?’ The other replied, ‘Labid bin Al-A’sam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.’ The first one asked, ‘What material did he use?’ The other replied, ‘A comb and the hair stuck to it.’ The first one asked, ‘Where (is that)?’ The other replied, ‘In a skin of pollen of a male date palm tree kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan.’" So the Prophet went to that well and took out those things and said, "That was the well which was shown to me (in a dream). Its water looked like the infusion of Henna leaves and its date-palm trees looked like the heads of devils." The Prophet added, "Then that thing was taken out." I said (to the Prophet) "Why do you not treat yourself with Nashra?" He said, "Allah has cured me; I dislike to let evil spread among my people." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 660)

I employ you to read your Islamic history. It is clear from Islamic sources that Mohammad was bewitched and influenced by devils. I didn't make it up

tola9ja

MATTHEW 10:34
I HAVE NOT BRING PEACE BUT SWORD THAT MEANS IF U ACCEPT WHAT JESUS BRING U WILL PERISH SEE HOW U ARE CON CONTRADICTING YOURSELF

Jesus didn't marry and 6 year old child and slept with her. Jesus didn't rob caravans. Jesus didn't kill anyone. Read the Bible back to back and show me anywhere Jesus killed anyone. Compare that to Mohammad. He killed and asked his companions to rape because Allah endorsed it. He stole and sold slaves.

DID U LOVE THE BOKO HARAM ARE U PRAYING FOR THEM

I pray that God will intervene with Boko Haram and I pray for them but don't mistake my prayers and love for stupidi.ty or passiveness. As Christians we must loathe war but we also had to defeat Hitler, the lover of war. We are taught to be as harmless as doves but as wise as serpents. Because I am a Christian doesn't mean I leave my door open and don't lock it when I go to bed at night. The same God that told us to love is the same that will judge the wicked and evil people.

THESE SHOWS THAT YOUR LORD IS SANGO SMOKE CAME OUT IS NOSTRIL [INA LOJU INA LENU]

Perhaps you need to go to school and again and learn realize when a text is figurative rather than literal - I can't help you with that one . You have displayed your understanding of the Bible and honestly, all I can do for you is hope you had a good college degree. More enlighten Muslims don't debate with such arguments but since you discovered youtube and imams who rather find violence with Jesus to justify the craziness happening in Islam today; all I can do is pray for you.

Please go and figure out why Sunnis and Shias are killing themselves in Syria, Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Go figure out why someone can convert from a Muslim to another faith in a Muslim dominated country. When you have figure those out - then come to me and discuss violence in the Bible.

Empiree: may God of Abraham deliver us from the shackles of ignorance and deceit from among jinnkind and mankind.

May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob give you the guts to be honest

tola9ja

i accept ur fabrication oya fabricate this 1 - Matt 10: 34-35

. Fabrication, you don't say. You raised an ignorant point, I disarmed it and provided the historical and traditional context of the subject matter in Luke. You failed to do the same in Matthew 10:34-35. Your problem is that you don't read the Bible, you listen to imams who want to justify the violence in Islam by comparing it with the teachings of Jesus. Apart from the fact that Jesus never killed anyone nor did he marry and had intercourse with a 9 year old child; we can truly say that Jesus taught concepts that resonates generations later.

Read Matthew 5:43-48:

43 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

That is the teaching of the Messiah. Moving forward, what did Jesus do when one of his disciple drew his sword and cut of the ear of a temple guard, it is recorded in Matthew 26:51-54:

51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. 52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

The same event is recorded in the gospel of Luke 22:49-51:

49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? 50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. 51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.

Again, the gospel record that Jesus forbid violence and rebuked it several times. Since you want to justify it, you wouldn't see that. I will do justice to your question in Matthew 10:34-35, when I am done, you can go to your imam and ask him again:

'''''At first glance it indeed appears that Jesus encourages violence and calls his disciples to practice it, presumably righteous violence. But appearances can be deceiving. A text without a context often becomes a pretext, as the old saying goes. Once this verse is read in its historical and literary contexts, the meaning will change. It is time to set the record straight about that verse

The historical context, we should recall, is Jewish culture, as Jesus ministers to his own people. He sends out the twelve disciples to the "lost sheep of Israel," not yet to the gentiles, who will be reached after the Resurrection. It is not surprising, historically speaking, that he would spread his word by proclamation to his own, by Jewish disciples. Second, he predicts that some towns may not receive the disciples and that the authorities may put them on trial and flog them. In that eventuality, they should shake the dust off their feet, pray for them, and flee to another city. Third, it is only natural that first-century Jews may not understand this new sect or "Jesus movement" (as sociologists of the New Testament call it), so they resist it. Does this mean, then, that Jesus calls for a holy war with a physical, military sword against his fellow Jews—say, against his own family who wanted to take custody of him because they thought he was "out of his mind" (Mark 3:21)?

Next, those cultural facts explain the immediate literary context, which shows division among family members. The context must be quoted in full to explain the meaning of "sword" in Matthew 10:34 (bold print):

32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. 34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

-- a man against his father,
-- a daughter against her mother,
-- a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household [Micah 7:6]

37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

The one key element in this lengthy passage is the word "sword," and its meaning is now clear. It indicates that following Jesus in his original Jewish society may not bring peace to a family, but may "split" it up, the precise function of a metaphorical sword. Are his disciples ready for that? This kind of spiritual sword invisibly severs a man from his father, and daughter from her mother, and so on (Micah 7:6). Given Jesus’ own family resistance early on (they later came around), it is only natural he would say that no matter what the cost, one must follow him to the end, even if it means giving up one’s family. But this applies only if the family rejects the new convert, not if the family accepts him in his new faith; he must not reject them, because the whole point of Jesus’ advent is to win as many people to his side as possible, even if this divides the world in two, but never violently.

Now we can appeal to even a much larger textual context. The non-literal interpretation of the sword is confirmed by a parallel passage in the Gospel of Luke.

Luke 12:49-53 reads:

49 "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo [my death], and how distressed I am until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

Whatever the case, the proper way to interpret Scripture is to let verses clarify other verses, particularly parallel passages. And now Luke 12:49-53 confirms our interpretation of Matt. 10:34. Jesus did not endorse physical violence against one’s own family, but he warns people about possible family division.

History demonstrates that Jesus never wielded a sword against anyone, and in Matt. 10:34 he does not order his followers to swing one either, in order to kill their family opponents or for any reason. But a true disciple who is worthy of following Christ and who comes from a possibly hostile family has to use a sword of the will (never a physical sword) to sever away all opposition, even as far as taking up his cross—another metaphorical implement for the disciples. It is true that Jesus divides the world into two camps, those who follow him, and those who do not, those in the light, and those in the dark. However, he never tells his followers to wage war on everyone else, and certainly not on one’s family.

It is true that the Roman Emperor Constantine, Medieval Crusaders, and Protestants and Catholics have used the sword against unbelievers and each other. However, none of them is foundational to Christianity—only Jesus is, and he never endorses the sword to spread his message. Also, Christianity has undergone Reform (c. 1400-1600) and has been put under the pressure of the Enlightenment (c. 1600-1800), which demanded peace. Be that as it may, Jesus himself never calls for military holy war, and only he sets the genetic code for his movement.

There is not a single verse in the New Testament that calls the Church to commit violence to spread the gospel or to plant churches or to accomplish anything else. Rather, the New Testament hands the sword over to the State (Rom. 13:1-6). In any case, Jesus says a spiritual sword, not a physical one, may sever family ties, so his disciples must be ready for that.

So, do yourself a favor and study the Bible for once in your life, it will do you some good.

2 Samuel 22:7-9

So, how does this verse teach Christians to kill non-Christians?

Abdulsalam20: INDEED ISLAM HAS BEEN PERFECTED

You bet it has - if I have to use sand to clean myself before I pray - it has definitely been "PERFECTED"

Abdulsalam20

We used to consider miracles as Allah's Blessings, but you
people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with
Allah's Apostle on a journey, and we ran short of water. He
said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people
brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his
hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the
Blessing is from Allah." I saw the water flowing from
among the fingers of Allah's Apostle , and no doubt, we
heard the meal glorifying Allah, when it was being eaten
(by him).

So food can sing praises . 7th century illiterates can believe such fairy tales but it shocks me that in this day and age one can believe such

We were one-thousand-and-four-hundred persons on the
day of Al-Hudaibiya (Treaty), and (at) Al-Hudaibiya
(there) was a well. We drew out its water not leaving even
a single drop. The Prophet sat at the edge of the well and
asked for some water with which he rinsed his mouth and
then he threw it out into the well. We stayed for a short
while and then drew water from the well and quenched
our thirst, and even our riding animals drank water to
their satisfaction.

So, why didn't the Quran record any of these miracles?

Once we were traveling with the Prophet and we carried
on traveling till the last part of the night and then we
(halted at a place) and slept (deeply). There is nothing
sweeter than sleep for a traveler in the last part of the
night. So it was only the heat of the sun that made us to
wake up and the first to wake up was so and so, then so
and so and then so and so (the narrator 'Auf said that Abu
Raja' had told him their names but he had forgotten them)
and the fourth person to wake up was 'Umar bin Al-
Khattab. And whenever the Prophet used to sleep, nobody
would wake him up till he himself used to get up as we did
not know what was happening (being revealed) to him in
his sleep. So, 'Umar got up and saw the condition of the
people, and he was a strict man, so he said, "Allahu Akbar"
and raised his voice with Takbir , and kept on saying it
loudly till the Prophet got up because of it. When he got
up, the people informed him about what had happened to
them. He said, "There is no harm (or it will not be
harmful). Depart!" So they departed from that place, and
after covering some distance the Prophet stopped and
asked for some water to perform the ablution. So he
performed the ablution and the call for the prayer was
pronounced and he led the people in prayer. After he
finished from the prayer, he saw a man sitting aloof who
had not prayed with the people. He asked, "O so and so!
What has prevented you from praying with us?" He
replied, "I am junub and there is no water. " The Prophet
said, "Perform tayammum with (clean) earth and that is
sufficient for you."

So using sand to clean yourself instead of water is a miracle? How does sand make you clean? Can you put sand in your nose?

There is nothing you are saying that is new. Please show me one miracle Mohammad performed in the Quran and compare the same to Jesus in the same Quran

Abdulsalam20

Christians often ask what miracles the prophet
Muhammad performed; many of them even
make the claim that the Quran and the hadiths
record no miracles done by the prophet.
However so, it seems that I am reading a
different Quran and hadith then, because you
would have to be blind, or a big liar to claim
that there are no recorded miracles of the
prophet found in Islamic sources.

Can you show me one place he raised the dead or healed the sick? Also, don't confuse magic with miracles. There is a reason no miracle events are recorded in the Quran and that is because Mohammad didn't do any.

For example, it is recorded in the Hadith that when Mohammad was about to eat, his food sang praises to him. Ignorant fools will believe such tales but such can't merit the title of miracles.

Jesus raised the dead, healed the sick, cast out demons, make the lame to walk, healed the leper. Miracles bring substance and add value to other people lives. Even at that, at the name of Jesus today people are healed, they can walk, talk, people are raised from the dead. Mohammad name is powerless Bros, it wasn't able to save him or any Muslim

My question to you is this - if Mohammad did instead heal people and caused rain to fall, why did he die from the poison of a Jewish woman?

Abdulsalam20

THE FACT IS THAT ISLAM IS WELL DOCUMENTED NOT LIKE CHRISTIANITY..........I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION TWICE NOW........U QUOTE SURATUL NAJM TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM .......DID YOU READ THE NEXT VERSE NEXT TO IT?.........
I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR FIRST QUESTION GBAM SO CONCERNING THE SATANIC VERSE THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THAT IN ISLAM

But it is - it is clearly stated in your Quran. You are trying to explain it away. Islamic historians recorded it hundreds of years before you decided to give a response to me and their conclusion was as the same as mine: Mohammad was deceived by Satan

Bros, Christianity existed 600 years before Islam was even thought about. Go and read up on your history lessons. The Quran is not a history book; it's a compilation of events and sayings of Mohammad from a supposedly heavenly creature that tried to kill him. God's angels don't attempt to kill God's prophets.

SECONDLY YOU SAID PROPHETS RECEIVE DIRECT REVELATION FROM GOD THEN U WILL EXPLAIN THIS PROPHETS IN THE BIBLE WHICH GABRIEL APPEAR TO THEM MAYBE THEY ARE POSSESED BY DEVIL
ABOUT GABRIEL: His name means 'strength of God,' a fitting title
for the angel appointed to deliver the words of
God. Gabriel waited for instructions from God,
and obeyed Him without question. " For the word
of God is living and powerful, " and who better to
deliver it than one of God's most devoted angels. (Hebrews 4:12).

Another problem of yours is that you don't know how to read. I specifically mentioned Moses and Joshua. God talked with Moses directly and didn't use Angels. God's voice came from Heaven and said about Jesus - "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased". In Islam, you claim that Mohammad was greater than all the prophets and he is the seal of the prophets. If that is the case, God would have communicated with him directly, no?

Also funny is that you are using the Bible to defend your claim. You said Islam has no history than Christianity but yet most of the Islamic events can't be explained without the Torah and the Bible. You are truly pathe.tic

Whereas the mighty warrior angel Michael has incredible strength and power, Gabriel is obedient and sensitive to the will of God.
Throughout Scripture, Gabriel was assigned to deliver specific and time-sensitive messages to God's people, regardless of content.
Whether it was to announce the conception of a much-longed-for child, or to prophesy the destruction of an entire city, God entrusted
Gabriel to deliver the entire message, nothing more or less.

Which scripture are you referring to? Are you referring to the Bible?

SO EXPLAIN THIS:
To Hagar, Sarai's maidservant, to encourage her to return to her mistress.(Genesis 16:7-12)
To Abram, to prophesy the birth of Isaac and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Genesis 18)
To Lot and his family, to help them escape from Sodom. (Genesis 19:1-29)
To Hagar, a second time to promise the preservation of the life of Ishmael. (Genesis 21:17-20)
To Abraham, to prevent the sacrifice of Isaac and to confirm God's covenant. (Genesis 22:11-19)
To Jacob, to instruct him to return to his own homeland. (Genesis 31:11-13)
To Israel, to judge them for their incomplete conquest of the Promised Land. (Judges 2:1-3)
To Gideon, to encourage him to stand against the Midianites. (Judges 6:11-23)
To Minoan and his wife, from the tribe of Dan, to prophesy the birth of Samson. (Judges 13:1-24)
To Elijah, to strengthen him for his long journey. (I Kings 19:5-
SO LEARN BEFORE YOU SPEAK

Try and grow some sense, I mentioned Moses as compared to Mohammad. I never said God doesn't use Angels to minister to his people and prophets. You have so far been successfully in displaying your grammar comprehension

Abdulsalam20

There is no greater lie than the Satanic verses lie. The Prophet never said those verses. To sum up, the story basically says that when the Prophet was leading the prayer one time near the Ka’bah, he was reciting Surah 53:19-20 and then he said a verse 'those are the high-flyingcranes and indeed their intercession is to be hoped for' so the Quraysh got happy that the Prophet spoke so positively about their Gods
and then also prostrated with the Muslims when they prostrated in their prayer. Then Allah sent down a verse rebuking the Prophet Muhammad
(Surah 17:73-75)

It's in your Quran, it clearly mentions Mohammad calling on pagan goddesses that were worshiped by his tribe. If he wanted to rebuke them, he should have rebuked them right there but instead he wanted to appease them and spoke positively about their gods. Why didn't he tell them that their gods and Allah are not the same? Didn't he know Allah is one and can't be compared to other demi-gods?

It's glaring that your prophet wanted favors from his tribe and encouraged their pagan beliefs to make atonement. Secondly, you didn't answer me - how was the devil able to convince and influence Mohammad? So, Mohammad was possessed by the devil?

and also sent down a verseabrogating the ‘Satanic revelation’ (Surah22:52).

Almighty God is not arbitrary, He doesn't change His mind when He feels like it. God is eternal and when and if He says something - THAT'S IT - He doesn't change. So, if Allah is telling Mohammad something at one point then changing His mind another time, it means that Allah wasn't sure about what he said in the first place. So, it's either Mohammad that is lying on Allah or Allah can't be God Almighty as God Almighty doesn't change.

Lets see if this could make any sense…
Surah 53 was revealed in the 5 th year of
Prophethood…
Ibn Sad says that before this, in the Rajab of the
5th year of Prophethood, a small group of the
Companions had emigrated to Abyssinia. Then,
when in the Ramadan of the same year this
incident took place the news spread that the Holy
Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon
him) had recited Surah An-Najm publicly in the
assembly of the Quraish and the whole assembly,
including the believers as well as the disbelievers,
had fallen down in prostration with him. When
the emigrants to Abyssinia heard this news they
formed the impression that the disbelievers of
Makkah had become Muslims. Thereupon, some
of them returned to Makkah in the Shawwal of the
5th year of Prophethood, only to learn that the
news was wrong and the conflict between Islam
and disbelief was raging as furiously as before.
Consequently, the second emigration to Abyssinia
took place, in which many more people left
Makkah.
Thus, it becomes almost certain that this Surah
was revealed in the Ramadan of 5th year of
Prophethood. (Maududi Commentary on the
Quran, Commentary on Surah 53, Source )
The verse that came rebuking the Prophet was
sent down years later…
The very first verse indicates that this Surah was
revealed on the occasion of Mi`raj (Ascension).
According to the Traditions and books on the life
of the Holy Prophet, this event happened one year
before Hijrah. Thus, this Surah is one of those,
which were revealed in the last stage of
Prophethood at Makkah. (Maududi Commentary
on the Quran, Commentary on Surah 17, Source )
And the verse that supposedly abrogated the
‘satanic revelation’ came in 1 A.H, which is
approximately 8 years after the incident…
The sudden change of the style from v. 25 shows
that probably vv. 25-78 were sent down in the
month of Zul-Hijjah in the very first year after
Hijrah . This is indicated by vv. 25-41 and
confirmed by the occasion of the revelation of vv.
39-40. (Maududi Commentary on the Quran,
Commentary on Surah 22, Source )
Are you trying to say that Muslims believed the
Satanic revelations were true revelations for
eight years? That would mean that the Quraysh
would have believed that the Muslims were
pagan worshippers. So if the Quraysh did, then
why did they keep on persecuting the Muslims
for their beliefs, which is the reason why the
Hijra took place anyway?
Obviously, one should also continue reading the
remaining of the Surah…
Surah 53:21-25
What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the
female? Behold, such would be indeed a division
most unfair! These are nothing but names which
ye have devised, - ye and your fathers, - for which
God has sent down no authority (whatever). They
follow nothing but conjecture and what their own
souls desire! - Even though there has already
come to them Guidance from their Lord! Nay,
shall man have (just) anything he hankers after?
But it is to God that the End and the Beginning (of
all things) belong.
It clearly condemns the deity of these idols, so
why need a verse abrogating it?
Surah 22:52 is only a general statement…
Prophets and messengers (the distinction is
explained in n. 2503 to xix. 51) are but human.
Their actions are righteous and their motives
pure. But in judging things from a human point of
view, the suggestion may come to their mind
(from Satan) that it would be good to have power
or wealth or influence for furthering Allah's
cause, or that it may be good to conciliate some
faction which may be irreconcilable. In fact, in
Allah's Plan, it may be the opposite. Allah, in His
mercy and inspiration, will cancel any false or
vain suggestions of this kind, and confirm and
strengthen His own Commands and make known
His Will in His Signs or revelations . (Yusuf Ali
Commentary on the Quran, Commentary on
Surah 22:52)
(Never sent We a messenger or a Prophet before
thee) O Muhammad (but when he) the Prophet
(recited (the message)) or spoke (Satan proposed
(opposition) about that which he recited thereof)
such that he does not act upon it. (But Allah
abolisheth) but Allah elucidates (that which Satan
proposeth) on the tongue of His Prophet such that
he does not act upon it. (Then Allah establisheth)
then He clarifies (His revelations) for His Prophet
in order that he acts upon them. (Allah is
Knower) of that which Satan proposes, (Wise) He
decrees to abolish it; (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min
Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs, Commentary on Surah 22:52,

I have given you an ample explanation above. All you are doing is repeating yourself. If you agree that Mohammad said the satanic verses because he was influenced by satan then you have to admit that nearly anything and everything Mohammad said could have been influenced by satan - THAT IS A SHOCKING REVELATION for Islam. Go and ponder over that

BossTtdiamonds:

I actually cannot believe I just read all the trash you posted above.

You just posted BS you know...
You say he performed miracles. Where are the Quran verses to backup your claim.

You don't just come here and write bullsh*t to us from some hadith.. You have to use the Quran to backup your claim.

Anyone could have lied he performed miracles..

Evidence, Proof; does this mean anything to you.. I wonder if you read at all.

Here's the Part that really pissed me off..


Like WTF??

His problem is that he has no historical basis for his claims. Debating him is laughable. He doesn't know his own religious history

boykas:

U can lie!!! Most of u hyprocrite will die like dis and God almighty wnt forgive u even if u ask for forgivenes, I was posted to kaduna br,kano rd by my company and all muslims in d bank were d most happiest people in d world cuz of thebad tribulation d man caused to d muslim. U r a beast nd belive me, u will die in dis mess.

There is no denying that some Muslims celebrated when 9/11 took place. I am not claiming that all Muslims were happy or had no resmorse but some Muslims celebrated in the face events like 9/11.

Here you go:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k

[quote author=Empiree]

@bold, really? and what's stopping you from accepting it if you "fully understand" it?.

The topic is not about accepting Islamic theology. You are bringing that up. I asked you a simple question and you have been running around in circles to provide a simple answer

As for answer you want, your question is technically stupi.d.

That is all I wanted - you don't have anything to say or your religious leanings makes you ashamed on the violence Islam is perpetuating among-st it's adherents and toward non-muslims as well

Why dont you take flight to Iraq and ask those fellas who they really are and what their mission is rather than bothering innocent people here?.

Do I need to go to Iraq to see the atrocities muslims are committing against themselves. Do I need to go to northern Nigeria to see that Boko Haram is killing, raping and robbing?

I actually chose to not answer arsenalwenger on purpose. He seems to make sense than you but I wanted him to take a "tour search".

Then sit down and shut up since you don't have anything to say.

tola9ja: WHAT DID YOU WANT WE MUSLIM TO SAY ABOUT THESE TEACHING OF THE BIBLE


Matthew 10:34-35King James Version (KJV)

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace,but a sword

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

LUKE 19-27King James Version (KJV)

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Another ignorant baffon who learns the Bible from his imam and who has refused to read the entire chapter to understand what is going on. Since you are too lazy to try or too stupi.d to read, I will help you:

The passage in Matthew and Luke 19 are the same. Here is goes from Luke 19:1 - 27

1. And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.

2 And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.

3 And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.

4 And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.

5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

11 And as they heard these things, HE ADDED AND SPAKE A PARABLE, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.

19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.

22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.

25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Please open your eyes and read verse 11 very well. The passage clearly states that it was a parable. Jesus always taught in parables so people could understand what he was saying. Verse 12 also clearly states that the parable was about a certain noble man or king.

People like you who can't see the spiritual violence that is wrecking Islam always wants to justify such 7th century cave-man like behavior with other religions. In the future, do yourself a favor and read the text before you make yourself look stupi.d on a public forum

Empiree: cloudstar, I see, you are truly elementary. This subject is beyond your thinking capacity. So let's leave it here because dragging me back to how your mom and dad perceived religion while you growing up really too elementary for me. When you grow up, then you can learn this subject. For now, I guess you should keep dreaming in christian god is diff from muslim god. That's just too childish for me.

Bros, some of us fully understand Islamic theology and traditions. To come here and start using an excuse to give an answer is at best cowardly and border line stupi.d. I told you earlier, if you don't have anything to say - please sit down and shut up

All we need to know about Islam is in the Quran, the Sunnah of Mohammad and the Sira - FULL STOP!. Any other idea, introduction of modern theories or explanation falls short. If you can't provide an answer for these - take a chill pill and sit down

Abdulsalam20

IF U CAN READ THAT MY POST ABOVE I HAVE PROVED YOU WRONG WITH SOPHISTICATED EVIDENCEPLS READ I WILL ADVIDE U TO READ IT BECAUSE U MIGHT END UP SHARING THIS FALSE INFO TO OTHERS

All you have proven is to confirm that Mohammad was influenced by devils. If you are admitting that the supposedly "greatest of all messengers" can be controlled by devils and demons - then you have proven the satanic verses was possible. Historically, the earliest Muslim scholars confirm the events that happened - Mohammad did in fact say those things to get the sympathy for his tribe. In other words, he pretended or lied - IT IS SHOCKING

this is just a smal extrct frm d writeup........because u quoted the verse but u didnt quote d verse next to it
Obviously, one should also continue reading the remainder of
the Surah:

Surah 53:21-25
What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold,
such would be indeed a division most unfair! These are
nothing but names which ye have devised, - ye and your
fathers, - for which God has sent down no authority
(whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what
their own souls desire! - Even though there has already come
to them Guidance from their Lord! Nay, shall man have (just)
anything he hankers after? But it is to God that the End and
the Beginning (of all things) belong.
It clearly condemns the deity of these idols, so why would we

I have responded to the above in your earlier post, read it for reference

PLS READ THE WRITEUP IF I AM WRONG U CAN STATE THE PLACE I AM WRONG

You have proven several things:

1. That Mohammad did say the Satanic verses
2. That he said it because the devil influenced or changed his speech
3. That his prophet-hood should be question

You have opened a can of worms for Islam and yourself my friend. I am await your response

Abdulsalam20

2. Imam al-Baghawi (d. 510) said in his commentary of the Qur'an entitled Lubab al-Ta'wil fi Ma`alim al-Tanzil (Dar al-Fikr ed. vol. 3) concerning the story of the cranes (qissat al-gharaaneeq):
[p. 293] Ibn `Abbas, Muhammad ibn Ka`b al-Qurazi and others of the commentators of Qur'an said that when the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - saw the turning away of his people from him and it bore heavily on him to see the distance grow between them and what he brought them on Allah's part, he desired in his soul (tamanna fi nafsihi) that there come from Allah something that would bridge the gap between him and his people, for he was deeply concerned that they should have faith. As he was in a gathering of the Quraysh one day, Allah revealed Sura al-Najm (53), whereupon Allah's Messenger - Allah bless and greet him -- began to recite it, until he reached His saying:

19. Have ye thought upon Al Lat and Al Uzza?
20. And Manat, the third, the other?whereupon the devil interjected upon his tongue (alqa al-shaytan `ala lisanihi) in connection with that of which he spoke to himself and was hoping for:

Why would the devil interject Mohammad tongue? Mohammad is supposedly the greatest of all the messengers i.e. Moses, Jesus, Joshua etc. None of these other prophets in anyway were influenced or their speeches influenced by the devil. How come it is only Mohammad words that got influenced by the Devil?

When the Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced greatly. Allah's Messenger proceeded with his recitation until the end of the Sura, at which point he prostrated, and the Muslims prostrated with him as well as all those of the pagans that were in the mosque. There remained no-one in the mosque, neither believer nor non-believer, except he prostrated, but for al-Walid ibn al-Mughira and Abu Uhayha Sa`id ibn al-`As who took a handful of earth and applied it to their foreheads, prostrating on it, for they were aged old men who could not prostrate. Then the Quraysh dispersed in elation at the way they had heard their gods mentioned, saying: "Muhammad has mentioned our gods in the best way possible." They also said: "We definitely know that Allah gives life and gives death as well as creates and sustains, but these our gods intercede for us before Him, so if Muhammad gives them their share, we are with him." When evening came, Gibril came to Allah's Messenger - Allah bless and greet him - and said: "O Muhammad! What have you done? You have recited to the people something which I never brought you from Allah Exalted and Almighty." Hearing this, the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - was deeply grieved and feared much from Allah (swt). So Allah revealed to him the following verse in which he consoled him , as He was ever merciful towards him:

You have proven my point Bros. Mohammad cared for his tribe and he wanted to harmonize with them. In order to do so, he had to either act that their gods were okay or that it appeared that they could worship it. The problem with this is that God prophets are not controlled by the devil. If you are saying that Mohammad was influenced by the devil here then it's possible that he was influenced by the devil in so many other places. This is SHOCKING, really SHOCKING for any and every muslim. Your prophet was at some point in his life controlled by devils!!

{ Never sent We a messenger or a Prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise} (22:52)

In the Bible, their is a prerequisite for being a prophet of God. It goes like this:

PREREQUISITES:

1.A prophet typically receives direct revelations from God
2.A prophet usually does just that—prophesy, usually about the future
3.A prophet’s claim to prophethood is usually supported by miracles

As for receiving direct revelations from God, there are several examples from the Bible, such as Exodus 3:10, where God not only directly communicates with Moses, but also sends him out on his mission. Likewise, the Koran confirms this, by saying that Allah spoke directly to Moses (Surah 4:164).

"So, what about Muhammad, Did God speak to him direct?" Not at all; instead, he was visited by a creature [that is, a created, lesser being], who Muhammad himself was convinced was a demon or Jinn.

As for the second prerequisite, prophecy, there are several provided several examples from the Bible of prophets prophesying, such as Psalms 22: 16, which Christians believe foretells the sufferings of Jesus, by nearly two millennial.

"So, what prophecy did Muhammad bring?" The Quran plainly indicates that Muhammad had no inkling of the future (see Surah 6:50 and 7:188).

To the third prerequisite of prophet-hood: miracles. There are miracles of Moses (e.g., Ten Plagues) and Jesus (raising the dead), which are recorded in both the Bible and Koran.

So what miracles did Muhammad perform? It is at this point that Muslims tell us that the Quran itself is the greatest miracle - How is that possible when it can't raise the dead or heal the sick? The claims of the “divine” Koran are manifold—linguistically, contextually, grammatically, etymologically

Meanwhile those of the Prophet's Companions who were in Abyssynia heard the news of the prostration of the Quraysh and the rumor that the Quraysh and the Meccans had accepted Islam, so most of them returned to their kindred. But when they neared Mecca the news reached them that what they had heard of the Islam of the Meccans was false. So no-one actually entered Mecca except under protection or stealthily. When the above verse was revealed, the Quraysh said: "Muhammad regrets his words about the status of our gods before Allah and has now changed them." The two phrases that the devil had interjected upon the tongue of Allah's Messenger - Allah bless and greet him - by then were in the mouth of every idolater, and their hostility increased in intensity against those who had accepted Islam.

I have discussed this above. If the Satanic verses are not true as you claim then Mohammad prophet-hood should be in serious doubt.

Abdulsalam20

By Bassam Zawadi

There is no greater lie than the lie of the Satanic Verses. The Prophet (peace be upon him) never uttered those verses. To sum it all up, the story basically states that when the Prophet (peace be upon him) was leading the prayer one time near the Ka'bah, he was reciting Surah 53:19-20 and then immediately after he recited those verses, he said "those are the high-flying cranes and indeed their intercession is to be hoped for" so the Quraysh tribe were so thrilled that the Prophet (peace be upon him) spoke so positively about their Gods that they also prostrated with the Muslims after he recited those verses. Afterwards, Allah sent down a verse rebuking the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) (Surah 17:73-75) and also sent down a verse abrogating the "Satanic Revelation" (Surah 22:52)

Hold on, why should Allah send down a verse to rebuke Mohammad if Mohammad never uttered the Satanic verses. Allah is supposedly the 'Almighty God', doesn't he know when he sent the first verse down before Mohammad recited it that He would have rebuked Mohammad? One of the holes in your argument is that Allah is arbitrary - God Almighty is not arbitrary, He is the same yesterday, today and forever. God doesn't change His mind to favor only one person.

Secondly, it is recorded FROM ISLAMIC THEOLOGY THAT CAN BE TRACED TODAY that Mohammad succumbed to the pressure of his tribe and did confirm Muslims can bow to the Arabian goddesses: al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat

The Qur'an, as it now reads, obviously rejects these deities. But—and here comes the issue—did the Qur'an and Muhammad always reject them?

While Muhammad was in Mecca, his followers were few, his movement grew painfully slowly and he, too, felt the pain of estrangement from his tribe. According to early and treasured biographical and historical accounts of Muhammad, authored by competent Muslim scholars (such as writings of at-Tabari and Ibn Sa’d), Muhammad longed for better relations and reconciliation with his community. Thereafter, the accounts continue, God revealed Surah 53 to Muhammad up to and including vss. 19, 20. These two verses read:

Have ye thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza And Manat, the third, the other? These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.(Surah 53:19,20)

The cranes whose intercession was recognized were, of course, the three deities. The same accounts tell us that after this revelation was completed, Muhammad, his followers and the pagan Arabs all prostrated. Tensions eased, reconciliation was at hand, and all were delighted.

I urge you to go read up on your Islamic because it shows you know little of it.

Let's see if this could make any sense. Surah 53 was revealed in the 5th year of Prophethood...

Ibn Sad says that before this, in the Rajab of the 5th year of Prophethood, a small group of the Companions had emigrated to Abyssinia. Then, when in the Ramadan of the same year this incident took place the news spread that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) had recited Surah An-Najm publicly in the assembly of the Quraish and the whole assembly, including the believers as well as the disbelievers, had fallen down in prostration with him. When the emigrants to Abyssinia heard this news they formed the impression that the disbelievers of Makkah had become Muslims. Thereupon, some of them returned to Makkah in the Shawwal of the 5th year of Prophethood, only to learn that the news was wrong and the conflict between Islam and disbelief was raging as furiously as before. Consequently, the second emigration to Abyssinia took place, in which many more people left Makkah.

Can you please tell us which year Ibn Sad wrote this account

Thus, it becomes almost certain that this Surah was revealed in the Ramadan of 5th year of Prophethood. (Syed Abu-Ala' Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur'an, Commentary on Surah 53, Source) The alleged verse that was revealed rebuking the Prophet (peace be upon him) was sent down years later: The very first verse indicates that this Surah was revealed on the occasion of Mi`raj (Ascension). According to the Traditions and books on the life of the Holy Prophet, this event happened one year before Hijrah. Thus, this Surah is one of those, which were revealed in the last stage of Prophethood at Makkah. (Syed Abu-Ala' Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur'an, Commentary on Surah 17, Source)

And the verse that supposedly abrogated the 'satanic revelation' was revealed in 1 A.H, which is approximately 8 years after the incident:

The sudden change of the style from v. 25 shows that probably vv. 25-78 were sent down in the month of Zul-Hijjah in the very first year after Hijrah. This is indicated by vv. 25-41 and confirmed by the occasion of the revelation of vv. 39-40. (Syed Abu-Ala' Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur'an, Commentary on Surah 22, Source) Are they trying to say that the Muslims believed that the Satanic revelations were true revelations for approximately eight years? That would mean that the Quraysh would have believed that the Muslims were pagan worshippers. So if the Quraysh did believe this, then why did they keep on persecuting the Muslims for their beliefs, which is the reason why the Hijra took place anyway?

It shocks me that you as a Muslim are depending on commentaries written centuries after the event as defense to the Satanic verses. The Satanic verses are in the Quran. The author that brought it to light has been threaten with death up to this very day - if it was indeed not as you say it is - why does the Muslim world threaten to kill someone with an "alternate" view?

Obviously, one should also continue reading the remainder of the Surah:Surah 53:21-25

What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! These are nothing but names which ye have devised, - ye and your fathers, - for which God has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire! - Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! Nay, shall man have (just) anything he hankers after? But it is to God that the End and the Beginning (of all things) belong. It clearly condemns the deity of these idols, so why would we

Again, you display your ignorance and rely on commentaries as defense - it is truly pathetic. For many Muslims it is simply inconceivable that Muhammad, even under the severest pressures, would (perhaps even could) compromise with his Meccan enemies, and still more that Satan somehow could "whisper" his thoughts into the substance of God's holy Word, the Qur'an. That is why even the idea of satanic verses in the Qur'an shocks some Muslims.

I didn't invent the Santanic verses nor did Jews, Christians or other non-Muslims. Our information about the satanic verses and the circumstances surrounding their revelation stems from the reputable Muslim accounts of at-Tabari and Ibn Sa’d. Muslims today who simply dismiss the account of these writers as fabricated and unhistorical must at least answer the question why such reputable persons would report it. The question is not new. But, it seems, a serious Muslim response is hard to find.

Abdulsalam20

HOW MANY TIME DID I WANT TO DO THAT?!.......U QUOTED VERSE OF BEATING IN THE QURAN I REMEMBER IT WAS 3 I DEFENDED IT U SAID MUHAMMAD BEAT HIS WIFE AND I PROVE U WRONG AM NT SUPRISE U NEVER ARGUE ON ANY OF THE VERSE IN THE QURAN AND BIBLE I QUOTED......PLS HOW MANY TIME DID I WANT TO POST

You didn't give me a coherent reply. I quoted two narrations, one from Al-Bukhari where Mohammad hit Aisha and from the Quran where it states that men are possessors of women and men in Islam can beat their wives. If you gave a response, it never came across. If you don't mind, please respond

......PLS AS I HAVE ALWAYS SAID DEFEND ANY OF THE VERSES I HAVE QUOTED..PLS CHOOSE ANY UR SELF........U SAID I AM ALL OVER THE PLACE YES!......BECAUSE U PEOPLE LACK SIMPLE KNOWLEDGE AND WE NEED TO EDUCATE YOU........I REMEMBER U QUOTED THAT MY POST IS TOO LONG SMH!......THAT IS WHAT TRUTHMAN2012 ALWAYS FIND AS AN EXCUSE AS I HAVE ALWAYS SAID I POST TO EDUCATE SO IT HAS TO BE COMPREHENSIVE AND IT IS AN ACT OF HYPOCRACY FOR U TO SAY THAT JUST READ IT AND PROVE ME WRONG......AND DONT FORGET WHAT I SAY JUST CHOOSE AMONG ANY OF THE VERSE I HAVE QUOTED UR SELF AND JUSTIFY IT

Hypocrisy is when you ignore the obvious. This is a simple matter, if you want to discuss women rights in Islam and Christianity, we can do that. In order to do that, you have to stick to the subject. I am willing to engage you if you are honest about confining the topic to the subject matter.

Empiree: You are not that smart. If you are, you would know this is admonition, and perhaps, proverb. Subject of ilm Akhir zaman is sensitive one. Care must be taken while studying it. The thing is many of you christian people only intend to mock. I knew that from day one and that's exactly what you've being doing. So i better just mute.

You fail to realize that some of us where born Muslims and part of our families where Arabs that have their lineage deeply rooted in Islam. I am not one to play with words and try to be politically correct when it comes to issues of faith. My mother was a Catholic and my father is a Muslim, so before you assume you know what I am thinking - pause and wash your face.

When I left high school, I was faced with the question that had been bothering me most of my life - Is the God in the Bible and the God in the Quran the same. I decided to find out for myself using historical method of both Islam and Christianity. Most importantly, I asked God Almighty to reveal Himself to me.

As a kid, my father taught me that Islam is the one and true religion and all other religions are false. As a Muslim, I was to submit to Allah and be his slave. On the other hand, my mother taught me that the God in the Bible doesn't want me to submit, He wants me to freely choose.

I will stop here for now but don't assume to you know others just because they have a different point of view. All we need to know about Islam is in the Quran, the Sunnah of Mohammad and the Sira - FULL STOP!. Any other idea, introduction of modern theories or explanation falls short.

The same way, all one needs to know about Christianity is to look at the teachings of Jesus the Christ and His Teachings main in the New Testament and the Bible.

Abdulsalam20: IN ADDITION SEE HOW U DISGRACE WOMEN
Deuteronomy 22:28-30 "If a man happens to meet a virgin
who is not pledged to be married and Molests her and they
are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of
silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He
can never divorce her as long as he lives."

I asked you to choose one subject matter so we can discuss. Your problem is that you are all over the place. If you decide to keep the debate coherent, I will engage you. So, pick one subject matter in the Bible and let us discuss it. Pick one verse and I will respond to you. I will do the same with the Quran

Empiree: I do not expect "one eye" folks to understand subject of ilm Akhir zaman (eschatology). It's a subject that requires internal intuitive. Those with "internal eye" are men of understanding. Many people are secularized today. They go to secular school, secular learning, secular texts and then graduate with secular certificate. It doesn't matter if they have Phd in physics, they will never understand mystery of modern secular world or civilization. It's secular world that destroyed thinking capacity. They destroyed our internal intuitive, the 'internal eye' (i:e eye of the heart) to the extent that secular folks do not believe in what they dont see. It's will unwise on my part to talk to you about it bcus you just not ready yet. Our old parents back in the day used to think. They would say things that came to pass. This doesnt mean they played God. Secularism makes one dump, deaf and blind (spiritually). Secular people do not believe in anything beyond material reality. Qur'an speaks of people like these. It doesnt matter if those people are Christians, muslims or anyone. (Rough translation) "they have eyes but they can not see. They are just like cattle....". In another word, many are cattle in the world today.

All this just to explain the actions of ISIS/ISIL? NA Wa!

arsenalwenger: It is the Judeo-christian alliance (quran 5:51) that made the sunnis (ISIS finances by saudi arabia and qatar) slaughter the shia in iraq (finance by iran).

Empiree: Judeo-Christian alliance are the ones terrorizing the world. They are the ones creating and funding terrorist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvkJXVYz6X0
I haven't even start with you guys yet on eschatology. You not ready for that. Eschatology is mind blowing. Clearly, you guys have no idea. Orthodox Christianity and Islamic eschatology have a lot in common. But you guys (western Christians) are so brainwashed. There is a lot to learn from Qur'an and hadith.

Go and sit down Bros - your religious leanings does not make you objective. So, it is the Judeo-Christian alliance that cut off the head of the two American journalist abi? Or they are ones responsible for the mass executions ISIL and Boko Haram are responsible for? Pathetic!

Abdulsalam20: U NEVR DEFEND THE ONE I POSTED ABOVE NW... ATLEAST I HAVE DEFEND THE VERSES AND HADITH YOU QUOTED FOR ME........... ABI U DIDNT READ IT SO OYA I DEY WAIT

You were posting the entire Quran, it was hard to read. Pick one point and we can tackle it together

Abdulsalam20: I HAVE ANSWERED IT NW.........READ MY EARLIER POSTS BUT AT LEAST THE VERSES U QUOTED IN TTHE QURAN U NOW UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE U MISQUOTED THE VERSE WELL! I DONT NEED U TO DEFEND MY EARLIER POSTS BECAUSE I KNOW U CANT DEFEND IT
THIS IS JUST AN ADDITION TO WHAT I POSTED ABOUT HOW WOMEN ARE TREATED IN THE BIBLE
.

You still haven't quoted one verse from the Bible where men are instructed to beat their wives. I am still waiting for you oh

Here is a Muslim i.e. Hamas Politician that summarize the situation: His words: "ISIS Doctrine stems from the Quran and Sunnah of Mohammad"

http://www.memritv.org/embedded_player/index.php?clip_id=4471

feedthenation: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/indian-shiite-group-puts-huge-bounty-isis-chief-105920735.html

An Indian Shi'ite group has announced a huge bounty on leaders of Sunni Islamist organisations across the world including Isis (now known as Islamic State), which is wreaking havoc in Iraq and Syria.
The All India Shia (Shi'ite) Hussaini Fund (AISHF) has said a reward of 10 million Indian Rupees (£100,000) will be given to anyone who kills one of five men; Isis leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, Al Qaeda chief Ayman Al-Zawahiri, Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Saeed, Taliban chief Mullah Omar and Harkat-ul-Mujahideen chief Azhar Masood.
"At the meeting of our all India executive on 6 September, we discussed the matter of putting rewards on killing of these five persons heading five organisations involved in terrorism. The resolution was unanimously passed. We will give the reward to those who kill them," the secretary general of the Shi'ite group AISHF Syed Hasan Mehdi told the Press Trust of India.
The group had earlier offered to send thousands of young Shi'ites to Iraq in order to participate in the ongoing battle against the Sunni insurgents.
"We are putting posters across the country including Lucknow, Hyderabad and Jammu and Kashmir to announce the reward as we feel that these terrorists do not deserve to live. They are killers of humanity and innocent persons of all the castes," the secretary general added.
AISHF has claimed millions of Muslims across India are ready to contribute funds towards this cause.

I thought Muslims killing one another is forbidden in Islam - NA WA!

Abdulsalam20: Dr. Chris T. R. Hewer ‘comes from a background in
Christian theology, education, Islamic studies and inter-
faith studies and has worked in the field of Muslims in
Britain and Christian-Muslim relations since 1986.’ Dr.
Chris T.R Hewer who is of Christian faith, is another in line
of respected experts commenting on the Quranic passage

Can you show me in the Bible where men are taught to beat their wives or women?

Empiree: [/s]You dont get it. Bye

I get it Bro and here is my official response to you FROM THE QURAN ITSELF ON THIS MATTER. I will summarize the entire ISIS ideology in a few verses from the Quran

1. Surah 3:32 = Say; Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love unbelievers

Here is the Quran stating that only obedient Muslims are to be loved by Allah. Any wonder why ISIS/ISIL doesn't love non-muslims and other Muslims i.e. Shia/Shittes they consider heretics?

2. Surah 48:29 = Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against unbelievers, and merciful among themselves.

Any wonder why ISIS is so severe against non-muslims? Stupid Politicians come out and complain when they have no idea about Islamic teachings. Our muslim brothers on NL want us to believe that it's an interpretation problem - unfortunately for your likes, we know how to read and it's clear that this is a teaching from the Quran. Let us see ways true Muslims can be severe and how Mohammad taught Muslims

3. Surah 4:24 = Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your right hand possess.

This Surah wouldn't make sense until we put it in it's historic context. Read the context in Abu Dawud 2150. When Mohammad won the battle of Altas, Allah had already revealed that Muslims were free to rape their female captives i.e. Surah 23:1-6, 33:50, 70:22-30. In Altas, the Muslim army captured certain women along with their husbands. Some of the Muslims wondered if it was adultery to rape these women since their husbands where there and they were married. So they approached Mohammad and asked him. It was at this juncture that Surah 4:24 was revealed. Allah said as long as they are your captives you can rape them all you want and it's not adultery, Allah couldn't conceivably care less if they were married. Have you heard about any groups raping their female captives? Ah Ha - ISIS/ISIL

What about people that try to stop the Islamic state from establishing Sharia? Here is what the Quran says:

4. Surah 5:33 = The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

Notice that there are several penalties such as murder, crucifixion and disembowment. Since the crime is "vague", Muslims can choose any punishment they want. Making mischief can be a common as being of another faith and not believing in Allah. ISIL/ISIS crucify and decapitate people all the time - do we see any similarities here?

5. Surah 9:5 = When the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters where you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful

So kill them unless they convert to Islam - sound familiar? Since idolaters have to convert or die, you might be wondering why ISIS gives Christians a 3rd option, the option to pay jizyah - tribute money. The explanation is below

6. Surah 9:29 = Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay they Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

So the benefit of been a Christian or a Jew is not necessarily that you will be slaughtered for refusing to convert, you have the option of paying tribute/protection money in acknowledgement of your inferiority. Is it just me or is ISIS following the Quran to the letter?

Moving forward, ISIS/ISIL also attacks "muslims" as well not only non-muslims; why is that?

7. Surah 9:73 = O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination

In arabic, "Strive Hard" if a form of Jihad. So muslims are commanded to wage jihad not only against unbelievers but also against hypocrites i.e. people who claim to be Muslims but aren't going what Allah commanded them. The punishment of hypocrisy varies but can well be considered Apostates when they deviated from core Islamic beliefs. We all know the penalty for apostasy is death in Islam. So, when ISIS kill Muslims who are not adhering to the true form of Islam, it shouldn't come as a surprise as it is a commandment of Allah

But what about all the peaceful, westernized Muslims who condemn killing in the name of Allah. Sadly, Islam is not created by westernized muslims, it is created by Allah and this is what he has to say:

8. Surah 9:111 = Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden, they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain.

Allah defines believers as those who slay and get slain. They keep killing until they get killed. Doesn't sound much like our peaceful Muslim neighbors but sounds heck like a lot similar to ISIS

We all hear that Muslims are peaceful and have several Muslims posed questions to groups like ISIS "How can you call yourselves Muslims when Islam says there is no compulsion in religion"

The "peaceful" verses were revealed before Allah commanded his followers to slay or be slain, to subjugate Jews and Christians, to rape and carry away war booty, to fight hypocrites. So, to understand ISIS and Islam in general, we need to understand the laws and instructions of abrogation. Peaceful and co-existance verses were abrogated or cancelled by later verses. So, version of Islam and that goes for some of our Muslim brothers on NL that opposes the violence of the Islamic State are now OBSOLETE.

9. Surah 2:106 = We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

Again, the action of radical Muslims is and has always been clearly defined in the Quran. I haven't even touched the Hadiths because I know Muslims are quick to claim that some Hadiths are weak. All I have asked you is to be objective and give an objective answer