THE THREE LIGHTS

When my mother, Shirey Marsh , was young she lived in Waterford,Pennsylvania. Three of her cousins-triplet girls-died when they were three years old.

When their mother came home from the burial services, she fell asleep in her living room. As night came on, she was awakened by the laughter of small children in the yard. She crept out on her porch and looked out.

She saw three blue lights lingering near the swings. Then she recognized the voices as those belonging to her girls. They were laughing and having a good time together.

Then the lights swung out toward the corn field and headed to the cemetery, which was not far from her home-

OLGA KEEPS HER PROMISE

Let me abride the background of this story; After lots of pondering over the subject of death, two college friends agree to tell each other about it,who ever dies first.

, Story:Once school let out for the summer vacation, I had no further communication with Olga because our farm homes were miles apart. In June 1926, I had a remarkable experience. I retired rather l;ate, and it seemed I had just dozed off when I found myself walking along a familiar street in Chanute. Olga was with me.

Olga was more serious than usual but looked quite natural as we sauntered along arm in arm. Then she said, : "I've come back to keep my promise"

Her tone was quiet, to prevent startling me, I think. I turned to her unbelievingly. She seemed just the same as always. There was something a bit more profound about her manner, erhaps but otherwise she seemed perfectly real.

"What do you mean,Olga?" I asked.

"Dont you remember our promise to each other?" she questioned. " I am dead! I have come back to tell you."

"No,no"I cried. "You cant be dead!why, you are here walking along side with me. You look so well!" I puzzled over her words, yet I knew she spoke the truth.

Olga was patient, but at last she seemed to think that nothing short of a shock would make me understand."Look atme!" she said. "I am dead; I died today!" Then an unearthly expression came over her countenance, turning it from youthful health to a cold palor! Her eyes lost all expression and her hands were chill to the touch.

This alarmed and horrified me, but when I looked again she was her old familiar self.

"Now you know," she said softly. I am dead! I cannot tell you what it is like, for it is not permitted, except to say that everything is alright. Never be afraid to die! Everything is alright"

Hey everyone, having a good week I trust?
I have just recently visited a thread about 'what happens when we die' and I left a question there. I have recieved very weird replies and I am not really interested in the exchange with these other religions. However my curiousity is still here with me and I wondered if we could have our own little in-house discussion on the matter.

It's like this; I have recently read a book titled 'Strange but True' and it's really making me ask what happens inbetween death and judgement. Do we get to float around,see our relatives,etc or what?

Will paste some entries that particularly got my attention in this book soon.

Blessings!

@Kunle Oloye

Touching story,thanks for sharing.
May God help us all to walk worthy of this calling. Amen.

Blessings!

our soul leaves our physical body

straight to the throne of judgement

heaven or heell

Mnh, I think its this kinda thing the poster means do we go straight or what?
I have been reading this book, Strange but True - incredible true stories from around the world: Paranormal ppl, miraculous healings, ghost and apparitions,

It got me asking, is there an intermediary? Does one really get to float around- that's sounds scarry and lonely.
Anyone??

I'D so sooo love to be gone from here, at least for a while. However-
@Pilgrim.1

Why did I do so? Because in absolute terms, the Levites had no income, and that which they offered was merely 1% of the value of Israel's heave offering (both Israel and Levi had heave offering - and the part that was Israel's was simply 1% when it was waved, and not 10%).

Understand this, the Levites were obligated to pay a tithe out of their "income". Only, their "income" was the tithes of the Isrealites.
please look at this:

Numbers 18:26-27 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, when ye take of the children of Isreal the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe 27 And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshing floor, and as the fulness of the wine press.

Nehemiah 10:38-39 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God,to the chambers, into the treasure house.39 For the children of Isreal AND the children of Levi shall bring the offering of the corn, of the new wine, and the oil, unto the chambers-
Levites never offered 1%, what they offered was 10% of the 10% they recieved from the Isrealites ( being their own income, so to speak)
Do you see that?
I think am gwanna takei that brakk naw.
Wisdom to all minds.

@JeSoul,

lol,    discussions are good for your spiritual health. Doctor's orders!

Anyways I am fine jare, thanks to God, I have a huge presentation to make & impress all the phD's in attendance . . . nervous to the bone, but confident in God, so if you have a minute, pray for me!

Dear, you have an excellent spirit, not the spirit of fear,- but of a sound mind.
So, just do it.
Praying for you too.

Blessings!

That was why I asked if 1% was the same as 10%? We may say that they could be the same; and so we would be making the mistake of assuming that it was either 1% or 10% . .   or we are not sure. Ah, someone might say, it was 1% when considered from Aaron's point of view - my question would be: would Aaron be counting that as Israel's tithes or as the tithes of the Levites?

I dont assume it's any thing other than 10%. You know you first raised the issue of 1% and I had to go and check it up and this is how I understood what I read:

*Isreal gave God 10% tithes
*Levite gave God 10% tithes (c/o Aaron)
*No one gave God 1%
 1% comes up only in relative terms.

No matter how one slices it, where exactly is the 1% and 10%?

A tithe means, not is,ten parts of something, or 10% of something. 1% is relative,and was actually originally raised by you. we have only tried to reply you on that ppoint.
As per the word "mandatory", I think what everyone is saying is that it is not a must that we must pay tithes.
1. Pay tithes, under the law of moses
2. Dont pay tithe, under the law of liberty

However we look at it, there will be a trying of how we have handled it, rightly or wrongly.
So those who dont believe in tithing are like " why tell us we must?- why make it mandatory?"

And those who believe in tithing any sum are like "its not mandatory to give any particular sum"

That's where it seems like everyone is saying the same thing in a disturbingly different way.
Blessings!

@JeSoul

I'm doing just fine, &you?

Actually, all that I have tried to do is to grapple with some points raised at some earlier part of this thread, the way I see it now.I think I skimmed over those to arrive at my first conclusion. The point being that those who wish "to tithe" must not make a discretion call.
I see I am on my own now,  no offence taken though.
Maybe at anor time, in anor place, put differently you may see it too? or not?
Learning is a continous thing.

And I'm glad I got you in the midst of the storm, ah ah

@Pilgrim.1
my dear Sista, thanks for that. You see, I was getting worked up by the sacarsm I felt coming from yours.You see, we don't all have to agree on ALL points, or even disagree on ALL points, unless we are arguing for the sake of arguments only.

Without an iota of pride, I think I have been first to admit that these discussions have been shaping my views on "tithes". At one point I tried to sum up what I was learning from the two major views and I put that here because I believe this is a place to share.
Nevertheless, as I  continued to weigh the arguments and turn to the Bible,I found my understanding changing. You see, I am here to learn from, and share with everyone else. So, I also took the priveledge to share my Thoughts as they evolved.
No shame in saying, "look, I was at such-and-such a place but now I am here"??

Please always remember that when we put out our arguments, its for others to see, reason and come to a conclusion which we usually hope aligns with ours- not to win the arguments but because we believe our stand is corrrect and we're trying to share it for others to benefit.

No games here, we I am learning.

1% V. 10%
Not the same at all. You are not following me then? My point was that they're not the same, which is why nothing else qualifies as 'tithes' in my view, whether it be more than 10% or less. Only 10% is a tithe. (that is, assuming any one wants to follow the law of tithes, then there's no question of discretion.)

Now, I personally don't think this thing is a life and death, heaven and hell issue but that of works- see, 1Cor 3:13-15*
Under the law, do it wrong and you would have been 'robbing God'. And thats the problem with allowing discretion in because by and large, while it would be safe to give more, in that 10% would still be tithes ( as in old testament palance, I think that after giving a tithe of 10% they could also give freewill offerings in addition.) giving less would be more tacky.
The ultimate argument is that since 'tithe' is of the law, the rules of the law should apply.

Heb 18:26-27

I really thot I'D included v.28 which explains further how the tithe they gave to God was supposed to get to him c/o Aaron***

But you could have been kind enough to simply correct that, at least for the sake of someone who may want to check it out for them selves.

Anyways, Blessings!

@ TV01

Did Jesus pay tithes? Valid points you raised there. Many thanks, I didnt see that that way before. But if money was simply not in contemplation then Jesus did not pay tithes as such. The pharisees in Luke 11: 42, Matt 23:23 were rich and probably owned farms of mint, etc. The rich man too had 'estates' and possibly farms and could pay tithes of these too.
No wonder I had trouble understanding what the "best part" of my N100,000 income was!

Having reached this conclusion, then Jesus did not refuse to pay tithes, because he wanted to disobey the law of moses but it just did not apply to him. Thanks again for that insight.

Blessings!

@JeSoul

Sista, follow? Or, am I on my own now?

Blessings!

@KunleOshob

Bros, I see your point better now. The church indeed fell into a lot of error. No wonder that era has been called "dark".
But dont loose sight of your arguement now, whatever we give is not a tithe!

You two, the issues you've provoked has not ended, don't shake hands just yet.

Look at this:

1.Tithe can be any amount: Guys, that's the first and biggest problem here.
As someone pointed out earlier, (& my Bible confirms it, AMP Gen 14:20), tithe is     means one-tenth, not 1%, not 35%, not even 100% is a tithe. Fullstop.
In fact, the isrealites paid 10% tithes,levites paid 10% tithe to Aaron, which was 1% of what the isrealites gave to him (Num 18:26-27), but ultimately no one paid 1% tithe to God.
So, exponge the word tithe, unless it is the 10th part, or 10%

2. Best part: Question; what is the best part of my N100,000 income? 10% cannot be the best part. 90% sounds "bester" to me, better still even 99%
Okay, lets adopt a different approach, say use ratios of 70:30,20:80,60:40, etc,etc then again the higher sum still looks best to me.
Lets consider further, what makes the bigger part the "best part" any? clean notes, or highest denomination of notes, or what? In O.T palance, where the giving was to be effected in kind, "best part" meant unblemished, spotless, never came under yoke,etc of the produce or animals.
Get it?, so a tithe had to be given of the best part( as was indeed required of all other offerings) but all the "best part" was not automatically tithe.

3. Freewill Offering : All offerings were regulated. So, freewill offering can only mean offering given freely rather than compulsorily required of God (this freewill offering had also to pass the "best part" test, by the way.)
So,again the tithe is not a freewill offering. So tithing was not done with a will of your own,you know,whatever quantity we please.So, insistence on calling it a tithe means it cannot be anything but 10% of the best part.

4. Heave Offering: This heave offering thingy, which I have looked up is explained in the AMP as 'whatever is taken out and kept of the offering made to me.' (Num 18:8.) Meaning all that was not literally burnt to God,or 'reserved from fire'(Num 18:9,17-18)Thus where they burnt the right breast, & right shoulder and fat, etc,etc that which was left and was permitted to Aaron and sons was a 'heave'. Also see where heave part was 'the first part of dough' from the cereal offering (Num 15:19,20,21*)
In anor sense, the part which was called a heave in the hand of isrealites was so called in the sense of " that part that is to be set apart to God, (whether as tithe or whatever other offering), or consecreted, or sanctified to God.
So, heave is not a tithe, though a tithe is a heave.

5. Hallowed part: Again, meaning removed from the bulk,set apart, etc,etc,etc

6. Justification for using the terms interchangeably?: None. There were so many diff offerings;burnt offering,drink offering, freewill offering,sin offering, wave offering (by the way, is that where they got 'give Jesus a wave offering'? lol
Okay, there's also cearal/meat offering, tresspass offering, peace offering,etc!
Point here;besides all these, a tithe had to be given.
See Deut 12:6 where they are listed out seperately.

*Even if these terms could be used interchangeably, why single out the word "tithe" to brand all offerings, including those given freely?

And  now someone will say: But tithes came before the law!

True, but like Jesus would say: "what is that to you(follow me)"
Translated in naija, "how e take concern you,do your own"

Abraham paid tithe without being obligated to, and jacob his grandson even did too. Okay,so what if Isaac did not pay tithes?? we're not told whether he did or not.
Maybe he just did not feel 'led'? Was that a problem?

How about if say,Joshua decieded that he did not feel 'led' to pay tithes? that is, after God gave moses the laws including tithing? what then? I vote trouble for joshua.
See my point? Anyone who insists on paying a "tithe" does so necessarily under the law.

So,
-Abraham to moses, no law of tithing, no promise of blessing, no curse for withholding.
-moses to Jesus, law of tithing, promise of blessing,curses for withholding
-After 'the entering of Jesus into a new priesthood and mediating of a new covenant', promise vanished, curses vanished, blessed by nature.(No, not old testament promises but "far better" promises which we can begin to fathom by reference to the old testament)
*Ugo 2u

Having said the above, next question: Did Jesus pay tithes?
Agreed, we are not told so expressly, but we can suppose that he did in all probability pay tithes.
1. Jesus was a jew and not a christian
2. Jews obey the law of moses. If anyone had the ability to keep that law inside out, that would be Jesus.
3. If Jesus paid taxes to Ceasar, wouldnt He "give to God what was God's"?
4. If Jesus did not pay tithes, I tell you, the pharisees would not let us hear the end of it, yet we see nothing of their many accusations relating to tithes.

Next question:If indeed Jesus paid tithes, why did he?
1. Because Abraham did (by faith)?
2. Because the law of moses required it?

To answer,remember that Jesus was a jew by natural descent. Jews obeyed the law of moses. So, Jesus paid tithes because-----

Next question: If Jesus indeed paid tithes why not just shut up and pay it? After all we are in the 'Isreal of God" because of our spiritual descent through Christ.Right?

" For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" Heb 7:12

                                                   NOT MY WORDS.

NEW TESTAMENT TITHING

All the mention of people actually doing the act of tithing is found in the synoptic gospels, that is before the entering of Jesus into a new priesthood and our entering into the new covenant. Matt 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18: 12

Frankly, I too never could see this subject further than Luke 11:42 & Matt 23:23 and I used to think that it meant Jesus was sanctioning tithes. Yes, the fact that he mentions it must mean that tithe was the reality of those times, afterall he must have been paying his tithes regularly, but he was doing more than that in these particular scriptures. He was condemning their hypocrisy in paying tithes and leaving other matters of the law undone. That is, selective obedience.

As for Luke 18:12 , Pilgrim 1, how could he condemn the young man if he himself was paying tithes? Friend, this infact only strenghtens the arguement that Jesus himself did pay tithes. For, why did the rich  young man think him good otherwise? If Jesus didnt obey laws which even he (the young man) did?!

Now, in Hebrew, tithes is mentioned only in relation to Paul's arguement showing how that Jesus was a kind of ' Priest of priests', and that his priesthood was far superior to that of Levite. Heb 7:v.5,6,8,9

Come to think of it, who did the Apostles pay tithes to AD, the authorities trying to kill them? Who did the early christians pay tithes to? the apostles who were not of the priesthood and couldnt take holy things?(read about Korah, Dathan and Ahiram in Num 16:27)

Mnh, I wonder if anyone makes sense of these too? Whatever we give should not be called tithes. Fullstop.[/b]This is not just a quarel with the wrong application of the word,as I have tried to show here, but it is simply recogniising that the term is not applicable to us [b]at all anymore than we can bring in our sin offering,tresspass offering, burnt, or cereal offering, or whatever!
Afterall, Malachi 3:20 talks about robbing God in 'Tithes' and 'Offerings'.

Can anyone see my point? I'm just saying that if we dropped the concept of tithes all together, (not to please people, but because it has lost its relevance long ago) we'D be moving on.
As for giving to God, its the nature of the christian.

Hi ppl. What a week its been here.

Blessings!

@P & K
Let me confess that I am astounded by how swiftly I have had to change my mind,then back & again all in 24hrs, , Haba you two, allow my spinnin head to rest now?!  please
Lol, I have learnt something here, have you two?I wonder.

@KunleOshob, she said:

Beloved, it is a simple matter: there are many names that tithes are called - don't be stuck on just the one term "TITHES"; you will lose the value by so doing.

That's why they did not preach on "tithe", cos they may have used some other term to refer to "giving"??



@Pilgrim.1

But seriously, if we neednt say "tithes", why insist that what we give is a "tithe" which should not be a given %. Why not just say "giving" then it wouldnt matter how much it is, periods, what substance(cash, or kind) etc.

If you want me to elaborate on where Jesus taught about the tithes, I shall gladly come back and share.

Really,Please do tell?

@KunleOshob

Bro, whats that translation you have've been using? It's beautiful.

A New Law

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" Heb 7:12

"In that he saith, A new covenant he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth & waxeth old is ready to vanish away" Heb 7:13

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Isreal after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:" Heb 8:10

These show us that a new law was always on the plan of God. Because the old one could not make men perfect before God.

What then is this new law? I show you the law of liberty.

"Who is made(Jesus), not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endlesslife"[/[/b]i] Heb 7:16

[i]"For the law of the [b]Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" Heb 8:2

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Gal 5:22-23

"Now the Lord is that Spirit:and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" 2Cor 3:17

These scritures show also that the Spirit of the Lord and that new law are inseperably linked. This makes further sense when we consider the promise in Heb 8:10 above, together with the reality of having recieved the Spirit of God 'poured out on all flesh' found in Joel 2:28. We can then say that we have recieved the Spirit of life in Christ also promised in Heb 8:2, also quoted above.

"But whosoever looketh into the perfect law of liberty, " James 1:25

There is yet a judgement according to this new law.
Mnh, sobering thought.

"So speak ye and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty" James 2:20

Under the law of liberty, the foremost obligation is love-love for God and love for man. Jesus reiterieted it in Matt 22:37-40 and again he hit upon these while adressing the pharisees in Luke 11:42

Under this law too, there are principles;Faith without works is dead, Grace over works, Mercy over judgement,give and it will come back to you,walking by the Spirit, Remission of sins by One, Love in deed and in truth, etc

How may we observe this law?

One may say that love is a weak, directionless,all-comers commandment to guide us,but not if we have recieved the Spirit of God which inscribes the laws of God in our hearts.

Paul further calls it the law of the mind,Rom 7:23 Here he shows how this law struggles for  preeminence with the set ideologies of the old law.
But the law of God triumps; It has the ability to make us become, by an instinctive knowing placed there by the spirit of God.

As they understood and were faced with making  daily judgements based upon the law of liberty, here's how they observed the law of liberty:

"Whoso hath this world's good, and seethh his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him" 1john 3:17

"All things are lawful but not all thing are expedient, edifyeth(build up,us or others)"[/i]1Cor 10:23

[i]"If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food and one of you say: Depart in peace,be warm and filled, what doth it profit?" James 2:15-16

"But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak, " 1Cor 8:9

"Brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty as an occassion to flesh, but by love serve one another" girl 5:13

",  or for maliciousness" 1 Pet 2:16

People, this law is not greivous, because the love of God has been shed abroad our hearts by the Holy Ghost. We have both the will and ability to do the pleasures of our God.

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God" 1 John 4:7

Read more: Blameless in love Eph 1:4, 1 Thes 3:13, Love edifies the body(church) of Christ[/i]Eph 4:16, 1 Thes 5:13, [i]Our works measure our love 1 John 4:16-21, Love is the nature of God, our nature 1 John 5:1-4, Covers offences and sins 1 pet 4:8, Greatest commandment(again!) 1 Cor13

Have a happy weekend,ya'all.  

Blessings!

@KunleOshob

my problem is that church which is morally oblidge to tell us the truth is misleading millions of people on this issue of tithes

My pastors still say every sunday " If you need a tithe envelope-" I havent heard much said by way of teaching about tithes lately but I take the above to mean that they are not yet aware of the implications of the shift in laws. I know you said that means they have no business being there but lets really be frank, there were so many errors in the history of the church which it is coming out of slowly. We have only come out of the dark era.So,I dont begrudge my pastors. The fact that we here in this forum have seen the light indicates that something is changing and one day soon the "error" of forced, or compulsory tithing will be in the past. Trust me, there will still be other new issues - until we come to the fulness of the stature of Christ.

@Pilgrim.1

For the other arguments advanced, my simple point is this: if we all agree that there is nothing wrong with tithing, then WHY is it making some people so bitter after admitting that nothing is wrong with it?

Simple reason. People feel betrayed by the wrong doctrines they have been taught by the very people  they trusted to nurture them. If I was in the church where a pastor proclaimed a curse on his members for failing to pay tithes, boy I would be pissed! I bet any one would too, even if they did not know what we here know. Afterall, who goes to church to recieve a curse? I dodge!

@ Sarmy,Pilgrim 1

I think we can see from all passages submitted earlier, no DIRECT use of the name TITHE as new testament church form of giving.

No direct use of the term "freewill offerings" either.

I think these are also very legit submissions, but does it really matter what we call them?
Okay, how about love offerings, giving by the Spirit,keep them coming-

Blessings!

cup of blessing!!!

Halleluya to that!

Blessings!

even the matthew 23:23 and the luke 11:42 fraudulently used to confuse christians that Jesus okayed tithing was not directed a christians but pharisees who were under the law

.  

@KunleOshob

Indeed. Jesus was condemning the hypocrisy of the pharisees in keeping part of the law, the part they favoured, and leaving out others, especially judgement and the love of God. Remember Jesus said elsewhere that these two are the "great" and "second greatest" commandments.

by the time you browse through the listed sites you would realise that tithes as always had a history of corruption, abuse, extortion, manipulation and deceit. which is still happening today

You seem however to have a problem with what men have done with the princile of tithing. I see your point there. Still, Should we trow the baby out with the bath water?


@pilgrim.1
If I understand your point, tithing is a principle older than law but incorporated in the law. Abraham gave tithes instintively, or shall I say by the leading of God's Spirit. We should not feel compelled to tithe but as  Paul argues, it is good to give it since we understand that it is useful to the church as it was to the priests of the old testament,,  am I getting you right??

Honestly, do you two realise how much the rest of us (me at least!) are benefiting from these discussions?. I appreciate all your points and I am forming a whole new perspective on the subject. Thanks to you two!  Please don't let anger and rancour in now.

The way I see it now, I will never feel guilty about not tithing(or giving) , but when I can i will being mindful of the needs of the church underwhich I recieve instructions.

I like the way  Paul would say it:

"All things are lawful for me, but not all things are expedient: all things are lawful but all things edify not " 1 Cor 10:23


12 So speak ye, and do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.



Finally,

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith christ hath made you free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" girl 5:1


Blessings!

@Obinna5000

Thats what I couldnt get.,thanks for clearing it up for me.
Temerance.

Blessings!

Am I permitted to quote my self then?

@FifiO
May God shower his blessings on you in Jesus name. AMEN!

I have noticed a trend in this religious section.
Someone that is an aethist can come and talk about condemning God and the non-existence of Jesus Christ, and we as Christians will be supprting such statements.
Men, this thing just pisses me off (God forgive me). Instead of us speaking against such anti-christ remarks, we are supporting it.
That means we do not believe or doubt in the existence of Jesus Christ or God.
I believe there is God and I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins and resurrected.
I don't care what Church you attend or what denomination of Christianity you belong, I will stand for what is the truth and not follow the bandwagon of lies and deceit


Hi there,I do not get your point. What are you talking about bro?

Hellooo!, can anyone see my ID right there at the top of your post, or is it just  me? And should I not get what it is you are saying, & precisely why you are addressing it to me on this thread, should I not ask?

Blessings!

My grouse really is the manipulation of the word of God for material benefit, it makes me feel betrayed as a christian that our "trusted" christian leaders can be deceiving us.

Lets give them this-some of them do not full understand the word of God in certain matters. But again the church is not for perfect men but for perfecting the saints. We can only pray that that day when the earth will be full of the knowledge of God should come speedily. We all need to know the truth. It is our liberty.

That deceit is the real issue, I had similar experience where pastor personally cursed those that did not pay tithe for that week

That's truely sad and can be challenging to one's faith. What can I say? Grace & Peace.

Blessings!

Matt 22:37-*40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets"

Let this scripture not be an offence to anyone. It is explicit enough. Infact , allow me to show you more:

James 2:10

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultry, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultry, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Now, whoever cares to, please read the whole of Deut 21-25. And oh, the whole of the old testament of course.

Acts 13:39

"And by him all that believe are justified[b] from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses[/b]"

girl 3:11

"But no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for the just shall live by faith"

When you put all this together what do you get?

girl 5:1

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewit Christ hath made us free & be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage"
Amen.

Blessings!

@FifiO
May God shower his blessings on you in Jesus name. AMEN!

I have noticed a trend in this religious section.
Someone that is an aethist can come and talk about condemning God and the non-existence of Jesus Christ, and we as Christians will be supprting such statements.
Men, this thing just pisses me off (God forgive me). Instead of us speaking against such anti-christ remarks, we are supporting it.
That means we do not believe or doubt in the existence of Jesus Christ or God.
I believe there is God and I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins and resurrected.
I don't care what Church you attend or what denomination of Christianity you belong, I will stand for what is the truth and not follow the bandwagon of lies and deceit

Hi there,I do not get your point. What are you talking about bro?

@JeSoul , lol. Bless ya

Every1,

Though you are not all you are expected to be,
nor what you wish to be, nor even what you hope to be,
But you can truely say

" I am not what I once was,
but by the grace of God I am what I am"

Blessings!

@Pilgrim.1 Mnh, , I hear you,sista.
Abeg, try mail me now

Matt 22:37-*40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Blessings!

@JeSoul

when taking communion, we are solely reflecting on Christ, His death, His sacrifice

I'm smiling as I read yours, do you mean that's the only one time you reflect on His death,His sacrifice ? I find I do that all the time.

So while I do solemnly remember Christ's suffering and death on the cross, and His resurrection importantly, I think it good sense to keep my mind not only on why He  did it but what is the result  of His action. I don't believe thats how Jesus wants us to remember all that He accomplished by His death and ressurection

.

Now, I am beaming(& this sista has a mighty big smile)!

My friend, the very fact that you have an opinion, or stand on this matter means that you have thought about what the scipture in question says, and what it doesn't say, came to a certain conclusion which reflects your believe, and have gone ahead to act or desist from acting, based on it. Shouldn't everyone do same?

If you note, I have shown how I direct my mind to recieve this doctrine. It would be a different thing if I said, why not yam and palm oil instead of bread & wine? that would be using my thinking to change/ colour the doctrine.

Jesus said, it is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.

That's what I like about this new life, it allows us the use of our faculties and our spirit to recieve, its not "A million Commandments and a Whip!"

so, when we study God's word we are looking for insights, illumination, not just the letters of the words or religious forms.

One of the ministries of Jesus was showing us how to think,for instance,

He summed up the Mosaic commandments in two sentences: love for God and love for fellow human beings. That's what God was saying to the Isrealites all along: Whatever you do, do with LOVE, and you wont go wrong. But they couldn't handle it because the Spirit had not yet been poured out on all flesh. Today someone might say, and indeed then too, they said Jesus was coming to them with new doctrines apart from that which they recieved from Moses. Jesus said to such people, "Moses himself will judge you".

In another place He told the samaritan woman by the well, it doesn't matter where you set your face to pray or worship. Do it in spirit & truth.
Today there are people who still insist on form and turning the act of worship into a series of religious rites with only ritualistic significance (and I don't mean that in the wrong way or as a dig- what's that sciptural saying?? far be it from me?!  )

Again, when Jesus taught us to pray, He said, when you pray say,
imagine if the apostles before and we ourselves refused to say any other prayer because Jesus specifically gave us those words?

Friend, after hearing about the Lordship of Jesus, I had to believe it. That involved a thinking, reasoning processes & I must quickly add, the influence of God's Spirit.
Moreso now, it's impossible for me not to exercise my mind, seeing that I have the mind of Christ. 1cor.2:12-16

All I'm saying is that a person taking communion for the purpose of healing or material or financial blessing is not taught in the bible

.

Hmn, I agree with you,that is not the purpose of taking communion nor is it expressly writen in the Bible. However, all I am saying is that communion time is a good time to recieve these blessings because while our minds are fixed on what He has done,the implications of the sacrifice,etc there is a great awareness, the kind that causes our faith to rise up within us to meet our challenges.At such a time (or,some other time with such awareness,as you may already have) you can actually say to that mountain,"move"
That was why I said the other day, and I quote:

Perhaps if all people had such awareness, there would be no need for the pastors to elaborate because every one would go home just as blessed from the communion service

.

Finally, I pray for you also " That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places," Eph 1:17-20

Thanks though for ur point of view, its been intresting to read.

oh no, it's wonderful for me exchanging views with you.

@ All, this is how I am feeling today:

Happy, happy, happy
happy in the Lord,
Thank God I'm born again,
I'm happy in the Lord,
One thing I have come to know,
my Lord is good,
that's why I'm happy,
happy in the Lord!

Blessings!

@Pilgrim.1
You are still standing!

Blessings!

The foremost significance of Christ's death is to save us from our sins - not our sickness or pains or financial troubles.

I understand how one can think that,and you are right that sin is the  but I need you to see the big picture. Of sin, that is.
You see, sin is a nature, and sickness and all the others are like baggage that comes with it.  Why do you think the Bible calls satan "the accuser of the brethren"? or why does it say that sin shall not have dominion (the rule) over a believer? these are the things one needs to read into the lines,  there is a result of sin which salvation has removed- the accuser has no grounds to afflict our bodies with sickness, the devourer has no right over our finances, with his strips we are healed,  thats how I personally relate to the things I read in the Bible.

Consider the following scenerio,
Imagine inheriting so much in estate from a rich uncle and you live and die without ever knowing it. Nothing gained.
Or, think about buying something at a very costly price and you just left it in the packet, with its price tag and all, and admire it and think about the price you paid for it. That simply wont do.!

So while I do solemnly remember Christ's suffering and death on the cross, and His resurrection importantly, I think it good sense to keep my mind not only on why He  did it but what is the result  of His action. I don't believe thats how Jesus wants us to remember all that He accomplished by His death and ressurection.

When I take communion, it is solely to remember what Christ did, if after that I want to pray for my needs and desires that's fine.

I really really get your point. Perhaps if all people had such awareness, there would be no need for the pastors to elaborate because every one would go home just as blessed from the communion service.

Nevertheless, I would like you to consider further what exactly Christ did. Ask yourself, why did Christ take away the sin,? think about what God said to Adam & Eve before sending them out of Eden and try to relate that to what Jesus wanted us to remember (keep our minds on). To my mind it was like " Remember that I have accomplished this, remember that you dont have to bear the result of the fall cos I have borne it, "

Dont forget that the fall/disobedience had consequences. Its not just that it was a sin- that's not the whole story.
So, Christ's work had reinstatement in its purpose. You see, its not like we are trying to fill in the gap with "our inclinations" but we try to understand that there was a plan from the beginning and to key-in to that plan. An informed christian is truely" an overcomer".

Think about it.

@sistawoman , It is how you[i] feel[/i], but is it what you know? don't trust your feelings. It's going to be alright.

@obinna5000, I praise God for you.

Blessings!

@Pilgrim 1, whats this about your thread being removed and all that?
And, where is Daruche

@Pilgrim 1, whats this about your thread being removed and all that?