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Religion / Re: The Problem Of Believing Morality Comes From A God Or Gods. by hiddendude: 11:16pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:Again, assuming from little or no evidence at all. What moral theory I subscribe to is of no relevance to this thread. It is a thread on the problems with the divine command theory that demands a possible resolution. Haba, think straight na! |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 11:13pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:Ok |
Religion / Re: The Problem Of Believing Morality Comes From A God Or Gods. by hiddendude: 11:03pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker: My opinion on morality matters less. This is derailing the thread. |
Religion / Re: The Problem Of Believing Morality Comes From A God Or Gods. by hiddendude: 11:03pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker: You're poised to answer but you have not. |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 11:01pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker: A fallacy is simply a flaw in reasoning. It undermines an argument. Where you got your own definition of a fallacy is simply beyond me. And Natural Truth, like the ground under your feet does not make a person Fall. Okay I am just giving you a warning about who you are engaging with and how soul damning his works are which are plainly recorded here in nairaland. This is a fallacy known as "poisoning the well" or a smear tactic. You want me to feel a particular way about a person without giving me the opportunity to relate with such a person to know if I'd like them. |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 10:56pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
truespeak:Errm, it actually is an ad hominem and how else am I meant to respond? My response is very valid given his claims. |
Religion / Re: The Problem Of Believing Morality Comes From A God Or Gods. by hiddendude: 10:47pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker: *sigh* You bet? How did you arrive at the conclusion that I do not know what morality is? My guess is I'm in for a crappy argument with no logical basis but I'll give you the benefit of proving me wrong. |
Religion / Re: The Problem Of Believing Morality Comes From A God Or Gods. by hiddendude: 10:44pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker: It is one thing to know what a number is, it is another to know that there are numbers preceding or succeeding said number. I can know the number 7 or 10 if I am taught what they look like on a surface (say a board or surface one could write on) but learning to count to 7 or 10 is a different thing altogether. Your second question is a loaded question fallacy. Being a Christian myself, I would throw in a bias by saying God made the laws yet it doesn't solve the problem I have highlighted. It only begs the question over and over. |
Religion / Re: The Problem Of Believing Morality Comes From A God Or Gods. by hiddendude: 10:35pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:What is the history of morality? How is that relevant to this thread? |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 10:34pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker: This is just ad hominem! Everyone that isn't philosophically aligned with your beliefs is diabolical? Dude, this is the era of information, no more backwards thinking. I've debated atheists since God knows when, yet I haven't become one myself. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Religion / The Problem Of Believing Morality Comes From A God Or Gods. by hiddendude: 10:29pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Disclaimer: I'm a theist and this thread isn't to say morality isn't objective, it aims to highlight problems with the divine command theory. A long surviving philosophical quandary (problem) to believing in God-dictated morality is the Euthyphro problem. It was posed by Socrates to Euthyphro in a discourse and it goes thus: "Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious or it is pious because it is loved by the gods?" Simply put: "Is something right because it is commanded by God or God commands something because it is right?" While this doesn't seem like it is a problem, it poses a huge one regardless of what your answer is. To explain how, I'll take each horn of the problem and explain why it is a problem. 1. Something is right because God commands it: You might be compelled to think God only commands appealing things like "do not kill", "do not commit adultery" e.t.c. but those of us who know our Old Testament, would agree that God does command killing when he feels like it. Now, imagine a hypothetical scenario where God appears to you and says he's reversing the 10 commandments and you can now do their opposites and not obeying this instruction would be a sin. Would you? 2. God commands something because it is right: This implies that there is something above God. How? God commanding something because it is right means he cannot command what is wrong, hence he is obliged by such circumstance. If God could never at some point command what he pleases, it means God like us is obliged to a moral standard and is thus below it. It means morality is what God has just discovered and uses. It is not right because he commands it, he commands it because it is right. This makes God superfluous or unnecessary with regards to the grand scope of morality. It means if God did not ever exist, morality would still exist because it is independent of God's command. Your thoughts? |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 10:04pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
LordReed:Experience! But I do not use my experience in arguments because the other party has no way of verifying whether or not my experience is true. 1 Like |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 9:51pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Hashabiah:I did point out that I believe in an objective moral standard. Immanuel Kant believed same but according to him, morals take root in intellect. To know what is moral according to him, is to envision what it would be like for an action to be universalized and if it produces a conceptual contradiction, then it isn't moral. He states this formally as: "Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction" Take stealing as an example. If one has the urge to steal, they should first consider the maxim of stealing (i.e the rule behind the concept of stealing or what stealing assumes or presupposes). Stealing is a concept that presupposes that there is such a thing as a private or personal property and if one intends to make a thing their own by illegally obtaining it, then they're universalizing stealing (saying there is no such thing as private property) and if there cannot be private property, there cannot be such a thing as stealing because it begs the idea of private property to be a thing. Hence, stealing is self-contradictory and cannot be moral. This way Kant said, we'd realize moral truths without God. The objective moral standard in this case, is logic or intellect. Ps: Kant actually believed in God. 2 Likes |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 7:29pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Hashabiah:While I agree that there is an objective standard for morality, there are other moral theories that do not beg the existence of God. 1. The Categorical Imperatives put forth by the philosopher Immanuel Kant, precludes God as a dictator of morals. It is derived from various formulations that are quite intuitive. The most popular of the four formulations that make up the categorical imperatives are the principle of Universalizability and the formulation on humanity. 2. Utilitarianism also precludes God. It grounds morals on the desire for happiness and the achievement of the ultimate good. 3. Contractarianism is a theory that claims that morality doesn't exist in nature but it is borne out of the need to survive in a harsh world. Moral codes exist according to the specific needs of an era according to this theory. |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 7:21pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
XXXXTENTACION:This is a Bifurcation fallacy. God existing and creating threads to prove so are not mutually exclusive. Using your logic, it could also be argued that if God didn't exist, you wouldn't have to say it, we'd all just realize it. 1 Like |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 7:11pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
Hashabiah:Actually, if there were no God there might still be atheists. Atheism is a response to the belief in God or claims about God and not a response to the existence of God. There are atheists because there are people who believe in God and talk about said God. PS: I believe in God but I had to drop this because your reasoning is flawed. |
Religion / Re: God Exists- This Is Why Atheists Keep Attacking & Going Against Christians. by hiddendude: 7:01pm On Apr 06, 2021 |
BecaciaBarbie: Not an atheist but this argument is flawed. It implies God couldn't have created life on a planet with an atmosphere that isn't of the same composition as earth's. The argument from fine-tuning is flawed in that it binds God to precision. There would be no need for a fine-tuning if God is perfect. If God had to make the earth's condition to suit a particular cause, then he is bound by said cause and is hence not omnipotent. To say God made the earth a particular way so life could thrive on it, is to say God couldn't have created life in a different situation. 1 Like |
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