MaxInDHouse:


All i'm trying to say is "stop admiring me if you're not ready to embrace the source of my wisdom"
We are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES you can't be a worshiper of our God if you're not with us.
You may be with any religion in INTERFAITH worship but we are not taught that way! Matthew 16:6, 12

So if you're not with us you will be our neighbour {Mark 12:29-31} only those with us are our brothers in the faith! Matthew 12:46-50
Thanks!

Dear MaxinDHouse
You are beyond this...don't restrict ursef...but no problem...I bliv at least we had a reasonable and mature discussion and dats okay...it was a pleasure and thank u

Maynman:


Why should I have this?
Is it a prerequisite to something?

U bliv in nothing then?...an atheist?

Maynman:


From a revision right?

Dear Maynman
Can I ask?
Who or what do you believe or is ur belief?
Cos I don't just like talking for d sake of it...I love precision and not argument

Maynman:


Manuscripts? That’s a lie.

Thank God I never said Original manuscripts...
But cut the chase... everyone understand wat am talking about...if u wanna confirm...u can go online and check if u can have a copy(not the original) anyways

Maynman:


You are reading a version why not read it as it is?

Dear Maynman
I really do not get u...I stated it that I am privy to manuscripts and also privy to the English versus...
Or is it me that don't understand ur point?

Maynman:


You are reading a version, not a translation.

Dear Maynman
I thought I stated it clearly that "VERSION" I never said translation...did I?...pls if I did...I would correct it immediately but I can't see anything of such... thank u

johnw47:


hi, i would be interested in knowing which bible you prefer
what do you think is the best translation

a tough question, i know

Dear johnw47
Thank God for technology and phones that had made it possible to read all versions in one app and even manuscripts written in the original languages.
I use all scriptures but I most times quote from the New Living Translation (NLT)

johnw47:


says lost mad max, so funny



your not mad because your beliefs aren't agreed with
you are mad because you say you can defeat 6 armed combatants single handed
and you can make someone eat and drink through his anus

you tell everyone how your wife loves to play with your dic etc. etc.

saying you are mad is very lenient, you are as crazy as hell




job 15:12 Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at



lost false jw mad max

of course you don't believe God's word that Jesus pre flesh name is
"the Word of God" even though He is called "the Word" even in the beginning of creation

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


you do however believe the devil and his lies:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.


Jesus is called many names, but not michael, of course

Dear johnw47
I believe u av gone through my reply on this thread...please I beg u don't be abusive or defensive while convening ur thoughts...no one is an Iceland of knowledge but I believe in our discussion we could be more polite.
Thank u

MaxInDHouse:


Jesus commanded some to TEACH others in the midst of his disciples {Matt 28:20} which means some sacred secrets will be revealed only to these chosen few {John 14:26} in order for all his disciples to have the same line of thought {John 17:20-23 compare to Hebr 13:7, 17} that's the only way PEACE can reign in the gathering of his disciples! John 14:27 compare 1Corin 14:33

So many have found this little flock {Luke 12:32} of anointed brothers of Christ and they are working with them to achieve what God promised {Isai 2:2-4; Zephaniah 3:9} whoever doesn't want to accept what Jesus revealed to them is not ready to worship our God. Period! 2John 10-11 compare to Romans 16:17

We have heard from Jesus' anointed brothers that he is the Archangel Michael and we have observed all the fine WORKS he's been doing with them {Matt 7:16-18} no JW showed me all the correlations i presented to you earlier, i only read a publication where they briefly mentioned Jesus as the former angel Michael but i searched the scriptures myself to be sure if it's so! Act 17:11

So you can continue worshiping your own God we know those with whom we worship our own God!

Dear MaxinDHouse
This is a conversation that I was so so cautious to no make it segregational or denominational but u av made it seem so from ur angel...
I was born Pentecostal but I am not Pentecostal...I am just notin but a follower of Christ...I am a Sunday school teacher and coordinator or two different denomination. At the start of all my teaching I do tell then...I won't teach u the teaching of men by consensus but I will teach u wat d Bible says and how it was bn said even if it against wat d denomination teach. Leaders of these denomination don't like it wen I conflict with their rule but still they can't just against it,or stop me...they love it but u know all these orders from above kinda thing. Thinks like "you are right truly,but u know these is how we do things in our church from the headquarters,these are wat we were told"
I stated the above for u to know that I am not lenient to denomination but the Bible...
You kept saying secret,secret,secret... revealed by our brethen,taught by them etc.. .forgetting that even Paul himself said if an angel,or any apostle or even himself reveal other things to us that has not been revealed we should not believe...even if they claim to even seen an angel or God...those things may or may not be true...even if they are...we were advised to stick to wat had been reveal so that we will not by any chance loose our strong footing due to not being vigilant enough.
Dear MaxinDHouse I never said u were wrong or right...I don't know myself because it wasn't revealed...my advice had always been let us always stick to wat had bn revealed extensively in the scriptures and not contemporary times with are debatable as I av shown to you.

MaxInDHouse:


Michael is an angel but Jesus is human so when John writes a letter to Christians he can't bring in unnecessary details that has little or nothing to do with what we need.
Jesus is the model we need to follow his footsteps closely {1Peter 2:21} as for Michael being Jesus in his prehuman existence that's a sacred secret that will be revealed later.

I have presented the correlations that's why i said it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not, those who knew it have the evidence and they're not forcing it on whoever doesn't know!

Dear MaxinDHouse
Like I always say to u...u are very wonderful...
I agree with u using the scriptural quote .."the secret thing is of the Lord but the one revealed is for us and our children". And "there is nothing secret that will not the revealed and there is nothing hidden that will not be seen and brought to Light". So,standing on this protocol I accept that there are things on God(the Father of Jesus Christ) knows that even Christ himself do not know, neither his angels...not to talk of we mortals. As revealed in;
Matthew 24:36
[36]“However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.
And
Revelation 19:12
[12]His eyes were like flames of fire, and on his head were many crowns. A name was written on him that no one understood except himself.

Using the above verses, let me state by exemplifying...we av numerous colours. An individual came said I hide some color that only I knows ..I won't tell u how many they are whether one,two,three or more but this I will tell u...in there is blue and white...whether there are other colors in there is known only to me,u don't need bother. That was the instruction.
When he left...we became curious and stated debating and permutating...few decided to be okay with the two colors,others stated guessing more colours...some may be right,some may be wrong,all may be right,all may be wrong. Nobody knows until d secret owner comes and reveal it...
Conclusion
The names revealed to us are;. Jesus the Messiah/Christ,the Word of God,the Son of God,the Lamb of God etc...others might be there but are not revealed.
Let's stay with the ones that are revealed expressly...they are more than enough for us and our salvation.

Thank u so much MaxinDHouse...keep it up

Janosky:

Oga, thanks for your response.

In Revelation 9,10 and 11, different angels blew trumpet according to the demands of the ssignment given them to perform.
Theirs is not the last trumpet.
1 Thess 4:16, the last trumpet, the Archangel's voice, raising the dead, it's actually the same person , Jesus Christ doing all.

In the holy scriptures, do you notice that Joshua 5:13-15, Daniel 10:13, 2 These 1:7-8 and Revelation 12:7-9 are similar?
Na Jesus be that, leading his Father's heavenly army.
Hebrew word for Angel ('malak') , the meaning is "son/Messenger" (someone sent of God), John 7:16 & 17:18, that's Jesus Christ and the disciples.
From Matthew to Revelation,who is referenced as " the son of man?"
Not Ezekiel ,not Daniel or David, only Jesus Christ.
.
From Matthew to Revelation,whose voice will resurrect the dead?

Only Jesus Christ of course!

Shalom.

Dear Janosky
Alot of errors u made but I discovered wat caused ur error...u were too quick to respond without proper and thorough research...
Let me point out ur three strong points which are total erroneous and at the end u urself will accept that u were too quick to reply
Firstly,u said "There is no last trumpet" (error)
U based ur inference totally on the letter of Paul to the Thessalonians without comparing scriptures with scriptures. Thank God it was Paul and not another author that wrote the same letter to the Corinthians maybe u wud av argued if it was a different author that he was mistaken and Paul was the one right but God so good it was Paul who wrote both...now in Corinthians;
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
[51]But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
[52]It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the *last trumpet* is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.
[53]For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

Secondly dear Janosky u said only Jesus was referred to as "son of man"...I will believe this is a typographical error...u don't mean it...because u must av read through Ezekiel. He was referred to as son of man more times than Christ himself...below is just one out if over 30 times
Ezekiel 37:3
[3]Then he asked me, “Son of man, can these bones become living people again?”“O Sovereign lord,” I replied, “you alone know the answer to that.”

Thirdly and lastly,u said whose voice from Matthew to Revelation will wake the dead...u answer ursef and said Jesus of course (error)
I told u to compare scriptures with scriptures.
We av Trumpet,Voice, descend.
Trumpet
Matthew 24:31
[31]And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.

Jesus said he will send his angel with the blast of a trumpet. Then 1 Corinthians 15:52 said last trumpet and Revelation 9,10 and 11 explain incidents of seven sounds of trumpet and after the last(seventh) the incident relating to Daniel 12 occurred. But it was not Jesus but a mighty angel that blow the last trumpet.

The Voice
In Daniel 12...Michael spoke by swear an oath with the name of the Lord of Host...In Revelation 10...a Mighty Angel spoke by swaring an oath with the name of the Lord of Host...can u see the correlation...but still it was not Jesus but Michael or Mighty Angel.

The Descend
In Matthew and Revelation it was explain that after the above...the lamb of God,Son of man , Word of God or Jesus will then be revealed for eyes to see.

Dear Janosky
Note the errors I pointed out and also note the role of the trumpets and the angels in charge,not the voice(sound or speech of oat) made by Michael or Mighty Angel to announce the conclusion,and then not the revealing of the Son of God...that is wat I mean by roles were being played

Janosky:

That expression "Jehovah ('the Lord') rebuke you (thee)" is in ONLY found in Zechariah 3:2 and Jude 1:9.
Peter quotes Psalms 16:10 @ Acts 2:31.
Jesus was inspired to quote Deuteronomy 6:4 @Mark 12:29, is Jude inspired to quote Zechariah 3:2?

Yes,of course I

Dear Janosky
U know u are not right with ur defense up der...av read many of ur comments over d years and ur indeed great but u urself knows that u miss this one...okay let me point d error up there out for u using the same author Jude...
U said the statement of Jude must av bn quoted from Zachariah even wen the reference were different.. u gave example of Jesus quoting Deuteronomy in reply to the devil's trial and Peter's quote at the first sermon on the day at Pentecost...if u look at Jesus and Peter's quote u will see that the quote was direct without distortion in both purpose and reference...but in the case of Jude the purpose were not the same as per both the angel and d devil in the two instance were fighting over a two different reasons in those two different passages and even the reference (Moses and Jeshua) were not the same.
Now the question is where is Jude quoting from? The answer to this is very very important. And dis is it.
Still in this Jude...Jude quoted a passage in verses 14 and 15 that is also no where is the Bible(canonized scriptures)...let's check it out...
Jude 1:14-15
[14]Enoch, who lived in the seventh generation after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said, “Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones
[15]to execute judgment on the people of the world. He will convict every person of all the ungodly things they have done and for all the insults that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
From the above shows that the scriptures are more numerous than they are now and even some av gone into extinction...the above shows that Jude must av bn making reference to an incident that was written down by an author between Archangel Michael and Satan over the BODY OF MOSES, and not the Zachariah story talk about an incident entirely different.

Janosky:

Jude 1:9 "Jehovah rebuke you" is a copy quote of Zechariah 3:2.
The angel of JEHOVAH ('the Lord' @ Jude 1:9 is Jehovah. The Tetragrammaton was removed from the New Testament by copyist because of Jewish superstition).
Zechariah 3:2 & Jude 1:9 is a verbal dispute between the Archangel (Jesus) & Satan.

Apostle Jude quoted from Zechariah 3:2.

Shalom.

Dear Janosky
U should not be clever by half...u know that Jude 1:9 was not from Zach 3:2...
Because Jude made reference to Moses and Zachariah was to Jeshua.
Thoughit could av bn Michael and I could av bn another angel in such capacity and do not be surprised wen an Angel use "I the Lord"...it is a delegated statement as in Exodus 3 and Genesis 18

Janosky:

Oga, your last sentence encapsulates my response to your comment.
Let me make some facts very obvious.

Point 1.
Oga,it was the popular belief in Christendom , acknowledged by Trinitarians and Bible scholars alike,that Jesus Christ is archangel Michael, (the Geneva Bible,1599 @ Daniel 12:1 & 10:13, confirmed this) before the Advent & proliferation of 1611 KJV Bible under the influence of the king of England who undermined the printing and proliferation of 1599 Geneva Bible .
To officially spread Trinity doctrine, the king James had to suppress 1599 Geneva Bible from the populace & English speaking world.
.
.
Point 2
Genesis 16:7 & Malachi 3:1, Amplified Bible & Geneva Bibles , both Bible translations of Trinitarians, proven that Jesus is an angel of Jehovah, his Father.
Numerous times, I have shared screenshots confirming the biblical evidence as well as church leaders (Catholics, Anglican etc. ) Confirmation of this truth.

Let me explain thoroughly the biblical evidence..


A)
Do you know God's prophecy of Genesis 3:15?
Who is that serpent of Genesis 3:15?
Answer: Satan the Devil, Revelation 12:9.

B)
Who defeated the serpent of Genesis 3:15?
Answer: The seed, Jesus Christ (@Gal 3:16), the Archangel Michael @ Revelation 12:7-9, breaking up the works of the devil @1 John 3:8.

C)
Jacob is also called Israel, Peter is also called Simon, Dorcas is called Tabitha,Jesus is called 'the Word','the Messiah", why not the archangel Michael he is?
D)
Why is Jesus the Archangel Michael ?
Answer:
Because Jesus is the son of God leading other sons (Angels) of God in battle,glory & victory @Matt25:31, 2 Thess1:7-8, Daniel 10:13.
E)
Whose voice resurrects the dead?
Answer: Archangel Michael,1Thess4:16 & John 5:28.

F)
Oga, pls pay thorough attention to this point and know the Bible truth of Daniel 10:13 & 12:1.
Many persons do not understand the use and meaning of Hebrew word "Haa.hat" (Hebrew lexicon 259) translated "the one/one of" at Daniel 10:13.
Biblical evidences: Daniel 10:13, Genesis 4:19 and Genesis 10:25 "Haa.hat" (Hebrew lexicon 259) translated "the one/one of" at Daniel 10:13 means "First/Senior/Leader of the pack.
Matthew 25:31,2Thess1:7-8, Daniel 10:13,Jn3:16 ,is Jesus Christ leading the sons of God to victory & salvation of Daniel and mankind?
Resoundingly YES !!

Dear Janosky
I understand ur enthusiasm...the trinitarian issue u raised those I belong to a section that believes it but I personally do not because I cannot be clearly beyond reasonable doubt be affirmed.
If u had read my current reply to @MaximDHouse...I addressed it...if u notice me I av bn on nairaland since 2015 and most times I come in as guest without logging in because I don't just talk on any issue...I read,respect opinions and them give a reply if am interested.
In that comment,it is extensive the correlation between Daniel 12 and Revelation 10...
The last trumpet sounds,voice of an archangel,the son of man descend does not mean that it is the same person that blow the last trumpet was the same archangel that speak and was the same son of man that descend...wen u read Revelation 9,10 and 11...u will understand Daniel 12...and the role that were played...
Read my last comment to @MaximDHouse

MaxInDHouse:


Whenever JWs say the Son of God transformed into the womb of Mary is the Archangel Michael most religionists often feel like raising the roof as if we can't back it up scripturally.
Well i'm not saying you should accept it or preach it to unbelievers because that's the name he bears in the spirit realms before his life as a human and earthly ministry, after his successfully mission on earth {John 19:30} his name is now Jesus Christ the lamb that takes away the sin of the world.

So we don't have to call him by his prehuman name rather let it be known that at the mention of the name of JESUS all knees of those who wants to continue living must bow.

Thank you!

Dear MaximDHouse...
You know a good teacher if the word should not infer but only conmpare scriptures worth scriptures...u know this
So therefore the name Jesus bore was "the word of God"... He had no form...he lived in God John 1:1-14 talks about that and he will go back to that form after his mission ( 1 Corinthians 15:27-28) is fulfilled according to Revelation 19:11-13
[11]Then I saw heaven opened, and a white horse was standing there. Its rider was named Faithful and True, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war.
[12]His eyes were like flames of fire, and on his head were many crowns. A name was written on him that no one understood except himself.
[13]He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God.

His true name before his human manifestation is THE WORD...that is the only name that can be scripturally backed up without controversy

MaxInDHouse:


According to Jude 9 only Michael is the ARCHANGEL but some interpreters confused the word FOREMOST for ARCHANGEL:

Daniel 10:13

But the prince of the royal realm of Persia stood in opposition to me for 21 days. But then Miʹcha·el, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; and I remained there beside the kings of Persia! ~ NWT

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia! ~ Holy Bible

But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia! ~ NIV

The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, so I left him there with the prince of the kingdom of Persia! ~ RSV

So it was misinterpretation, there's just one ARCHANGEL but many angels after Michael became princes in heaven!

Dear MaximDHouse
My compliment still stand but u and I know ur wiser than wat u just highlighted...I won't like to talk much on that but u know their Hebrew word and phrase for all is the same...so,let's just stop the jab...I don't want us to start chasing clout...I believe u understand.

So,let me continue from where I stopped.
Having through Daniel 10 stated that Angels are greater in rank and there are group and for a purpose. You may wonder why Gabriel's role throughout the scriptures is to deliver messages. Not only him,so Angels whose name were not mentioned also delivered messages to Moses, Zachariah,Mary,manoah,John etc. Since in all this roles they seems to hard fight and know how to war...little did Gabriel was detained until an Angel of war came...little wonder wen even a mortal like Jacob could detain an Angel and the angel even had to beg Jacob to free him but Gabriel seems to be leader of this fold because he said himself that he always stood in the presence of God(not all angels have that opportunity).
Some angels seem to be master of war little wonder an Angel could detroy thousands of able men in less than a day according to 1 Chronicles 21:15-16
[15]And God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But just as the angel was preparing to destroy it, the lord relented and said to the death angel, “Stop! That is enough!” At that moment the angel of the lord was standing by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
[16]David looked up and saw the angel of the lord standing between heaven and earth with his sword drawn, reaching out over Jerusalem. So David and the leaders of Israel put on burlap to show their deep distress and fell face down on the ground.
But Michael stands out amongst this fold little wonder the Bible said in Revelation 12:7
[7]Then there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels.
The Bible call those angels who forth his(Michael's) angel because he leads. Now the point I just made is to explain Daniel 12.
When u read Daniel 12 and Revelation 10...there are clear cut similarities I will like to point out and link then I trust ur wisdom in this regard to look into those similarities.
In Daniel 12:4
[4]But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end, when many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase.”
And in Revelation 10:4
[4]When the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write. But I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Keep secret what the seven thunders said, and do not write it down.”

These two verses shows that (since wat was revealed was to happen in future and they av bn keeping note without restrictions) sometin must not be revealed which they saw.

In Daniel 12:7
[7]The man dressed in linen, who was standing above the river, raised both his hands toward heaven and took a solemn oath by the One who lives forever, saying, “It will go on for a time, times, and half a time. When the shattering of the holy people has finally come to an end, all these things will have happened.”
And in Revelation 10:6
[6]He swore an oath in the name of the one who lives forever and ever, who created the heavens and everything in them, the earth and everything in it, and the sea and everything in it. He said, “There will be no more delay.

I don't need to talk too much on this...u can see the similarities...it's so glaring.

In Daniel 12:1
[1]“At that time Michael, the archangel who stands guard over your nation, will arise. Then there will be a time of anguish greater than any since nations first came into existence. But at that time every one of your people whose name is written in the book will be rescued.
And in Revelation 10:1
[1]Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, surrounded by a cloud, with a rainbow over his head. His face shone like the sun, and his feet were like pillars of fire.
The major thing here is that in Daniel the identity of the angel was revealed and not the description but in Revelation the description was given but not the name...but that description was powerful to show that he is a powerful angel,another angel that was given such rare description was the fallen morning star in Ezekiel 28...

The Bible told us in 1 Corinthians 15:52
[52]It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.

In Daniel 12:2 told us after Michael stands All the dead wIll rise.
But I Corinthians 15:52 said at the last trumpet meaning there is going to be more than one trumpet but precisely the last.
Now let's go back to Revelation. Since the Bible wasn't written in verses but like a letter..it mean a chapter is a continuation of the previous. In Revelation chapter 11 after chapter 10 ...in chapter 11 of Revelation 11:3 a reference was made to TWO witnesses but in Daniel 12:5 they were referred to as TWO men in linen but the similarity is the timing of there stay which is a time,times and half a time...
Revelation 11:15
[15]Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices shouting in heaven:
“The world has now become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
    and he will reign forever and ever.”
Revelation 11:18
[18]The nations were filled with wrath,
    but now the time of your wrath has come.
It is time to judge the dead
    and reward your servants the prophets,
    as well as your holy people,
and all who fear your name,
    from the least to the greatest.
It is time to destroy
    all who have caused destruction on the earth.”

Due to this numerous similaritieswe can see that Michael in Daniel 12 was the one John describe as the Mighty Angel in Revelation 10...
The question is will John knowing fully well who Christ is describe Christ as "a mighty angel"?

Pen down

cosiocan:

1 Corinthians 11:18-19 For first of all, when ye come together in the assembly, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

There ought to be divisions In understanding of the Bible so that the people that know the truth will standout, if we continue to follow those that we assumed understood the Bible, we will be yoked together in their errors.

Smile...it would av bn more clever if u had use debate instead of division because the is nothing positive in division in the long run and thank God u quoted from the letter to d Corinthians...if u check chapter 1 of that letter...1 Corinthians 1:10-13
[10]I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.
[11]For some members of Chloe’s household have told me about your quarrels, my dear brothers and sisters.
[12]Some of you are saying, “I am a follower of Paul.” Others are saying, “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Peter,” or “I follow only Christ.”
[13]Has Christ been divided into factions? Was I, Paul, crucified for you? Were any of you baptized in the name of Paul? Of course not!


Even in Chapter three Paul scold them the more by calling them babies
1 Corinthians 3:1-4
[1]Dear brothers and sisters, when I was with you I couldn’t talk to you as I would to spiritual people. I had to talk as though you belonged to this world or as though you were infants in Christ.
[2]I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren’t ready for anything stronger. And you still aren’t ready,
[3]for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn’t that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren’t you living like people of the world?
[4]When one of you says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you acting just like people of the world?


I trust ur understanding to sort out the difference...I understand ur perspective if u had use debate (objective debate) instead of division

MaxInDHouse:


First of all Apart from the Almighty God other heavenly beings are God's sons (angels) and Jesus has repeatedly made it clear that he's not the Almighty God! John 17:3; 20:17

There are angels that are closer to the most high depending on their ranks in heaven so Jesus who was SENT by the Almighty must be one of them.

According to Paul's letter Jesus is the first born of all creations {Colossians 1:15} under whose authority all angels in heaven are subjected {Matt 25:31} no other loyal angelic son of God is mentioned as having his own angels apart from Michael {Revelations 12:7} Jesus couldn't have been the first born if he's not part of those been born!

Michael is the one standing for the salvation of obedient mankind {Daniel 12:1} his earthly activities will lead to a reshuffle of things and the dead will be resurrected {Daniel 12:2} many will gain insight to preach and teach others for their salvation {Daniel 12:3} some will understand all these things while selfish people will not understand! Daniel 12:10


The one and only prophet who told us he's from the realms above (heavens) is Jesus Christ {John 8:23 compare to Daniel 12:1} and he emphasized that his coming was for the salvation of obedient mankind {John 3:16 compare to Daniel 12:1} he taught people in parables which confused many but few grasp it {Matthew 13:13 compare to Daniel 12:10} due to his earthly ministry many became preachers as in fishers of men {Mark 1:7 compare to Daniel 12:3} lots of resurrection took place during his earthly ministry {Daniel 12:2} and he even promised that his voice will do more in the future {John 5:28-29} Paul made us know that it's the ARCHANGEL'S voice that will resurrect the dead! 1Thessa 4:16-17

Read and meditate thoroughly then respond!

Dear MaximDHouse
You are a very brilliant mind and I am very happy with wat u put up there,so simple and straight forward but I have this to point out to u...
Let's start with meanings and I know ur conversant with meanings
Angel means messanger
So the plural form Angels means messangers
Arch means command,lead
Archangel means commander of angel,or leader of Angels
Archangels then means plural Commanders of Angels
I will assume and believe u av read through the book of Zachariah and in the whole scriptures that is the book that detailed the roles,duty and hierarchy amongst Angels.
Let me get to the chase:
So,i started with Daniel 10:3 and the choice if words used by the angel named to be Gabriel referring to Michael as ONE of the archangels (plural)...showing that Michael is ONE OF the commanding or leading Angels in hierarchy.
Ezekiel 28:14 also prove that a particular angel called "morning star" (some people say the devil but u don't like to inference,I like staying within wat is revealed) was raised to that position of being a chief angel(though he misused is role) but this proved that God gave or elevated some Angels to Lord over others.
Now the question will be in what platoon of Angels are these Archangels lording over and which role is Michael playing as regards to this role?
My battery is red but I will continue from there tonight let's say 9p.m

cosiocan:

1 Corinthians 11:18-19 For first of all, when ye come together in the assembly, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

The reason for the division in understanding of the Bible is for those who know the truth to standout and without the division the truth and lies will be yoked together.

Dear Cosiocan...i really like ur reply and observation which are really correct
Heresy means "school of thought" and it was necessary then because the church was just having a structure at the time and those school of thought created council meetings starting from the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 to put to bed the mosaic law and circumcision...
But sir today...these school of thoughts are no longer necessary becos we now av a structure through the scriptures that has become our boundary...
I believe u understand even beyond wat I put up there...

LordReed:


Well anytime you are ready, gimme a mention.

Dear LordReed,I am ready wen u answer my one simple question...

MaxInDHouse:


Jesus is Archangel Michael!
Just ask for scriptural backings or ask question and i'll give you the answers.
I'm not out for likes but truth and Jesus never promised us that we will be liked for truth {Matthew 10:22} but one thing is sure we will be noticed and admired! Matthew 5:14-16

As for denominational issues, i'm one of JWs we are no part of any religion, we stand alone, so if you're not one of JWs it simply means you're not a worshiper of our God!

Like I said...I don't do division or denomination...but let's get to it...we both study the Bible and we both believe we av d knowledge of the scriptures...so,let's get to it
Below are the passages that made references to Archangel Michael...link them with Jesus Christ with biblical proof and I will distinct them with biblical proof
Daniel 10:1-21;11:1
Daniel 12:1-3
Jude 1:5-10
Revelation 12:1-18

LordReed:


I would rather you open a different thread for that. I would like to keep this thread free of back and forths. I only answered peggywebbs because it bordered on the topic which is evidence.

Thank u LordReed...
I keep it to myself then...thank u

LordReed:


I think I have found the balance, I am not eager to believe anything not supported by evidence while not begrudging those who choose faith. For me no truth is greater than the reality we live in.

Dear LordReed
I like u so much and u av raised a very crucial question but it's a very simple one and I av read some of the replies u av got and they don't do it for u...but I will do it for u and I trust u will be sincere with me...
I will ask u just a question then after u answer I will now tell u wat will change ur mind if u can be sincere...
The question is
Tell me all that u know about the illness called malaria...wat causes malaria,how it is bn transfer and so on...just anytin u think u know about malaria...
Wen I see ur reply I will den go on with my submission
Thank u

MaxInDHouse:


And who told you no creature can create living creatures?

Well Jesus was CREATED that's why the Bible referred to him as the "first born" of all creations {Colossians 1:15} you can't be the firstborn if you're not part of those been born!

Most of you do miss out the context of what apostle Paul emphasized on that Bible book of Hebrews 1:13 instead of correlating everything from verse 1-14 you just pick verse 13 and summed up the whole thing!

Well Jesus is also an angel (messenger in the spirit realms) what Paul is emphasizing here is that God never introduced any angel to humans as the one through whom we can gain salvation apart from the angel who was transformed into an embryo in the womb of a Jewish virgin who later grew up as Jesus Christ.
God spoke from heaven twice saying:

Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved" Matthew 3:17

While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5

This is in fulfilment of what God promised the Israelites that they shouldn't think it's the Mosaic laws that will give them salvation rather another PROPHET will be sent to teach them how to gain salvation {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} apostle Peter confirmed that Jesus is that promised prophet that Moses talked about! Act 3:22

So Jesus was surely an angel but his case differs from all other angels because God never introduced any angel to mankind as our teacher except Archangel Michael (Jesus) who stood for our salvation during times of distress for mankind! Daniel 12:1-3

May you have PEACE!

I like u alot and I know ur a JW...and ur right in some instances,I av bn following u and people from different backgrounds and I don't really talk but in few cases...u are at fault and d other guy is at fault...and I am gonna point dat and den correlate the two opinion...u always claim angel Michael is Jesus using Daniel 12:1-3 but forgetting that Daniel 10:13 clearly showed us dat Michael I just one of the unnumbered Archangels in heaven and there is no correlation between Jesus and Michael...even Jude bn a brother to Jesus would av linked Michael with Jesus if it were true but simply referred to him as Michael and notin more.
To the other guy...he was wrong and u we're right wen he said the Father who is the one and true God is not greater than Jesus is the first born (prototype) of all creation wen Jesus himself numeriosly stated it that His Father and His God is greater than him-John 14:28 and even Paul stated it that it was God dat delegated power and authority to Jesus to act until the assignment is done in-1corinth 15:27-28...
Here is my conclusion...
We will keep getting ourselves wrong if we start learning to denominational and doctrinal bais...it is time we start interpreting the Bible the way it is without trying to make a denomination or sect more Superior to another...and most importantly,we divide us more is when everyone start inferring meaning to scriptures...inference brings diversity and diversity potentially brings division...let's just keep the Bible simple and stay within it confines for interpretation and not inference

OGwales:



Religious bondage, that you have being or condition not to think properly for yourself. Religious slavery, the white and Arabs are controlling Africans through the major religions, while Chinese are enslaving others through economy.


Free yourself.

Thanks alot for ur observation
But please can I ask a question?...what is freedom and wat is bondage since u clamour more on that...wen a principle or guidelines want me to do wat is right to me and others or want me to make sacrifices for the greater good of others...do u call dat slavery or bondage or wat do u mean by freedom?

Kobojunkie:
Are you certain the one you believe in is the Christian God?

I ask this because according to Jesus Christ, the Christ in the word Christian

▪︎ Salvation is not free. In Luke 14 vs 25 - 33. It is meant to cost you everything you have in order to purchase heaven for yourself - Matthew 13 vs 42 - 44. He went further to stipulate that only those who loose it all for His sake will be saved by finding the Narrow gate which leads to True Life- Matthew 10 vs 34 - 39 , Mark 8 vs 34 - 35, Matthew 16 vs 24 - 26 & Luke 9 vs 23 - 25

▪︎ He is the Way - John 14 vs 6 - , God's New Covenant Law and Covenant in the Kingdom of God and it is imperative that you live every moment of your existence submitting to and obey every one of His teachings(and commandments) - John 14 vs 15 - 25 - , standing faithful in obedience till the end if you are to be saved - Matthew 24 vs 13.

▪︎ the work He calls His followers to do is believe in the one whom the Father has said, not continue working for perishable bread as this is the kind of work He came to redeem us from - John 6 vs 25 - 35

.... I can ofcourse go on but I believe from the above, you can see why I would, from your Op, urge that you dig a little deeper to figure out the God you are truly serving because the one you describes seems so much different from the Christian God.

Dear kobojunkie
I sincerely appreciate the write up and I must agree that you are right. But I want u to know the difference in Acts 9 and 10 which talked about the conversation of both Saul and Cornelius respectively. Cornelius was a good man even without him knowing Christ..Peter revealed Christ to him and his home and they were only asked to believe which they did...no further instructions and they still continue living the good live they have bn known for but I bliv with Christ surely they got better and happier doing the good. But in the case of Paul he was a fanatic and aside that nothing good was attributed to him except being a fanatic and a persecutor of the church...what happened when I encountered Christ...he became a changed person,became patient and lead a good life that people now speak good of...
What Is my point...Christ changes our lives from bad to good and from good to better and better to best...
Have u asked urself a question about SOME people who are unbelievers but they lead a good life and SOME supposed believers who live a life not worthy of the gospel? The point is when receive Christ as a good person,u never stop being good but Christ changes the bad to good over time and that is spiritual growth. We have to forget about the tradition of men that over burden people with rules that seems wise but has notin to do with he salvation of the soul Colosians 2:20-23
I trust ur judgement as regards the issue I exemplified above

Kobojunkie:
From your description, I don't know the exact God you claim you found is why I ask. So which one? The deity of the Muslims? The deity of the Hindus? Krishna? Which one?,

Thank u kobojunke
Just as language differs and some try to claim that there language is more Superior to the others maybe due to it's influence or acceptability...I won't like to claim such...but if I am to teach a language to someone else won't I rather I teach the language I know very well not because I claim it to be above all but because I accept and know it more than any other...in a nut shell I believe in the Christian God because of the above...thank u kobojunke

[quote author=OGwales post=113770299][/quote]
Yes..I do hate religion slavery and bondage myself...just that u av to separate believing in God from religion bondage...it's not d same...for instance,if believing in God deter people from murder...won't that be for our good? Will u tag that bondage? But if a man who professor himself as a religious leaders over u say u shud empty ur account to fund him or the church and u did it out of fear of the man or respect...that could be a kinda religion bondage...please I will like u to know the difference. SAY NO TO RELIGIOUS BONDAGE AND SLAVERY

Kobojunkie:
So what God did you decide to believe in after all of your findings?

At least in my decision,I read dat someone loves me enough to die for me...I believe in the God he came to announce...I hope u understand

musicwriter:
"Others may free the body but none but ourselves can free the mind".......Bob Marley, while quoting a speech by Marcus Garvey during a black gathering in London.

Dear musicwriter
I love people like you so much...people who don't want to be force to believe in wat they are not convinced or people who just agree with the popular things going on...I salute ur courage...and it seems u av learnt a lot and also have a lot to offer...now i believe u still av alot of research to make to proof the falsehood of the man Jesus but in ur research methodology it seems ur also believe in the word of a professor who was not an eye witness who lived around two thousand years ago...u av not also shown a man or woman who lived in Jerusalem around 2000 years ago who said Jesus never existed during his time. Secondly,u condemn d account of look because he was not an eye witness...on that...my dad was not old enough to know his father,his father died in a strange land and nobody could locate his corpse...I and my siblings never knew ur grandfather,no pictures...just his name and story about his job and a bit about his life...my fear is that if my children come of age and ask me about my grandfather or any proof of my grandfather...how do I convince them...I don't av a proof,not a picture,am not an eye witness and never seen him before...so,if I can't proof it does that mean he does not exist because he did not live in my time or contemporary time? Please ur answer will help me to convince my children when they come to age...
Thank u

FERNANDEZISBACK:

Thanks..

U are most welcome...keep doing great

Hismasterpiece:
I'm responding to this post https://www.nairaland.com/7162565/bad-people-burn-hell by gideonjeta

There is a common misconception that Hell doesn't exist and all references to this place in Scripture is actually a metaphor for the grave. This train of thought is common among a cult know as the Jehovah's Witnesses.

But the truth is that Hell is indeed a place where people are currently and the following Scripture makes it clear

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

Hell, based on the above Scripture is a literal place where there are literal Angels reserved in chains for the day of Judgement. Note that the Scripture makes it clear that they have not been judged yet. A parallel Scripture would be the one below

Jud 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Let me mention again that Hell is not the final abode of the wicked. The following Scripture tells us what will happen on the day of Judgement

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell gave up the dead in them. And they were each judged according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

Hell is a place that currently holds not only Angels, but humans also. The story of the rich man and Lazarus found in Luke 16 makes this clear.

Hell is a place bad people go to when they die. Man is a spirit and there several Scriptures that prove this emphatically. When man dies his spirit departs from his body and goes to either Heaven or Hell to await the day of Judgement.

Now one reason why people say that God couldn't have created Hell is because they believe that Hell paints God in a bad light. On the contrary, I actually believe that Hell actually makes God out to be a really awesome person! Why do I say that? For the following reasons

1. The existence of Hell shows that God hates evil and shows just how much He hates it. The fact that He is willing to let the wicked rot there for eternity shows that He indeed has strong hatred for evil and this, I believe, shows just how good He is.

2. God loves evil people and doesn't want them to go to hell. In fact, Scripture tells us that God is saddened by the death of evil people. God doesn't enjoy watching His creation suffer in Hell.

3. God has made it clear in Scripture that He doesn't want any human to go there. In fact, Scripture tells us that Hell was originally prepared for the Devil and his angels and when man rebelled against God, he too became destined to go there.

4. God has made a way for all to escape Hell through His Son Jesus. You don't have to go to hell. You can live forever with God. God has made a way for this to be so by placing faith in His Son Jesus.

Hell is real! Don't let the Jehovah's Witnesses and Annihilationists deceive you. Don't listen to people like Kobojunkie that have a twisted interpretation of Scripture.

Please lets all abide by the truth. God bless!

Dear Op
I want to appreciate ur desire to pass the message of Christ through this channel...ur intentions are God. I attend a Pentecostal church and a Sunday school leader and preacher but I love to be addressed as a believe with no affiliation to bias.
My take on ur submission. U were right wen u said "hell" is a place,u we're definitely right. But,which is where I want u to take not is the "hell" does not av just a single meaning in the original language used in composing the scriptures. Let me start with the Bible passages u quoted. The hell referred to by Peter and Jude are the same but not that place uses total darkness...it never mentioned fire. Also it said there were kept for judgement meaning the av not been judged until the day of judgement...now before I move forward...using the two verses that shows that this particular hell was a place of darkness and not fire,also it is a place where those involved as it were demons where locked and kept till the day of judgement.
Secondly u talked about the parable of Jesus about Lazarus and the rich man. Noted, Jesus said it was a parable and a parable means a proverb which in itself is not literally true but passes a strong message of wisdom...Jesus uses so many of such and thank God Africans av proverbs to like wen we were growing up about the story of tortoise etc. Secondly,Christ said Lazarus was taken to Abraham bossom...if Jesus was narrating a true story...Abraham was 1400 years from Adams death...from Abraham to Noah and the righteous people who walked with God before Abraham...in whose bossom were they? Was it Abraham's that had not even bn born until the next over a thousand years?
My conclusion
Hell is a phase and a transition from life to life which is death...when a man dies,he cease to exist until the trumpet sounds when righteous ones will rise first with the dead and the living...others who are alive will still live for a time and half a time...then they will die and all the dead will rise for judgement... remember those who witness the first resurrection will not pass through this judgement cos they av already bn justified. Then everyone who is not written in the book of Life will be casted into the lake of fire...whether that fire is literally or figurative...I don't know and I don't care...since I won't be there and I Don't hope to be der to confirm.

Say no to SUICIDE. u still available hope