Yeah circumcision predates the law but it was CLEARLY STATED by apostle Paul that it means nothing. Though almost every man that's born to this world still remove the foreskin because of cleanliness . I believe even you were circumcised despite that it was clear to your parents that we are not under law.They did it for health prpose. No scripture warned us against tithing. Malachi proves that it's of the law but Genesis shows it predates the law
You don't need to be warned against tithing Al you need is common sense
Since Levitical Priesthood was abrogated and all are priests you can't cling to some elements of the system to suit your state
While you can point out in the new testament on the continuation or otherwise of that by Apostle Paul, you cannot do the same for tithing.
Apostle Paul's position on tithing was that you don't have to be circumcised to be saved as the other apostles made it a matter of necessity otherwise salvation was incomplete. Yet, he Paul Never condemned it or set it aside. Paul's position on circumcision and the narrative of tithing today are totally different.
A believer can go to heaven without paying tithe, if he/she hasn't the means or opportunity to do so, just like the thief on the cross. However, if you have the means to do it, and you said no, it becomes a big snare to you. The bible says, he that knoweth to do good and refuses to do it, to him/her it becomes a sin. Then the question now is, does sin take one to hell?. Yes it does!. This is not because it's law or not. Today, circumcision is still being practiced, but that will not be a hindrance to say a matured Muslim from being born again. But you who have known about it from a young age, and refused to do it say, to your son, what is your excuse?.
Should we now start killing, because it's the law, and we're no longer in that era?. No!. You won't go to heaven because you didn't kill, no you won't. But you can go their for killing, but I thought it was the law and Jesus has done away with the law. We must be wise. There exist a thin line between deception and lie. There are rituals that where clearly written off, like animal sacrifices, eating this and that and some others. But not all were done awY with.
I pay my tithe not because it's law but because I know it's the right thing to do. For someone to come around to tell me to stop doing what I know I should do, is wicked to say the least. If someone doesn't see it as right, fine!, that's your choice. We should address the issue of fake men of God capitalizing on it to enrich themselves rather than throwing away the baby and the bath water.
Since both proponents and opponents base their argument on the scriptures, and since it was not categorically set aside in the new testament, will I be on the losing side if I do it not as law?. If I cross over into eternity, will God query me for not giving it, assuming He still demands it?. But if I by assumption refuse to give it, will any of my excuses save me at that point, seeing I had the means to do it, unlike the thief at the cross?.
Please, when making or taking decision on matters of faith we must be very careful. We should be wary of the deceptions of the devil. Do you know that if we all instantly stop giving tithes, many churches will shut down?. You may say yeah! In happiness, but is that what God wants or is that what the devil wants?. So should we do it because there are fake men of God?. The early church gave more than tithes, they sold and gave their all, so who will come up with tithes?. Please, let's be wise. If there's any confusion, fast, pray and ask God to personally tell you. Shalom.
Tithing was well set aside my brother. With the dearth of Levitical priesthood, you have no priests to tithe to. In fact we are all a kingdom of priests
It certainly is no sin to tithe but nobody asked you to. One can say the same of circumcision.
The fact that you can on one hand dispense with Levites while clinging to their support system is lack of spiritual/theological honesty.
Can I pick of other examples that were not set a side?
Deuteronomy 22:9 (KJV) Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled.
When was this set aside? Do you prescribe it to Farmers because it was never set aside?
Stop spreading fear. Paul teaches GIVING and not tithing.
I can't think of a better place to teach gentiles tithing than when he expounded on giving and supporting ministers in 1 Cor 9.
The fact that the church survived for years without tithing means churches can survive without.
The work of a minister is to mature his congregation such that they don't need threats of devourer to support him. Of course the immature congregation need such
pressplay411: Interesting. God knows who's working for Him. So many work for free but complain through out. What do you expect is their reward? Some get paid but the value and service they give far exceeds the pay, cos they would have charged more secularly. We're in no place to judge. Though it's obviously more rewarding to render your services and talents to God for free. I believe God and only God knows who's working for Him because only He knows our Hearts.
To add to your point, any activity carried out for the direct furtherance of the gospel is working for God whether it is free or paid for.
Work for God is not defined by the remuneration but the purpose
Most churches employ drummers and the likes so they can come work for them,most of the aren't church members.. They just come and work and get paid at the end of the month.
While working for God is when you do it voluntarily... You can decide to sweep/be an usher depending on which department you want to join.
Where did you get this idea that serving God is done 'voluntarily' by which I take it to mean without pay?
The laborer is worth his wages and the fact that he is not paid does not mean that he is not entitled to
McXponent: Difference between working for God and working for church, or does it means if you work for church,you automatically work for God? Pastors or church workers receiving salaries at the end of each months are said to be working for God.. How's that possible and meanwhile most of this pastors/church workers aren't on full time. To my own understanding, any work you do and earn salaries or wages, so far you're being paid.. You're working for your Tommy. If you're working for God, you shouldn't expect salaries or wages from anywhere, you give in all and wait till God rewards you massively on his own. Don't let us mix things up.. So far you're earning monthly payments of which you agreed on it means you're working for the church. However, anything you agreed on doing for the church growth without expecting a dime from anybody.. You're working for God.
Let's have people's views on this issue. I'll be glad if this could be shifted to the front page.. People really need to know the difference. Thanks.
Brother you are confused.
1 Corinthians 9 Paul sets out elaborate argument on why it is actually ordained of God that ministers of the gospel be supported.
God never comes down from heaven to pay them; this comes from men, from the hearers of the gospel. Supposing a minister is not an Evangelist but a pastor meaning they have a fixed locale for sharing the word to a fixed congregation. Then support should be coming from that congregation.
If the church pays the minister a salary, why is that not the support envisaged by 1 Cor 9? Because it is regular? Remember the pay is there as long as the offerings can support it so it may be fixed but subject to availability. That makes it uncertain. Your regular pay on the other hand is fixed come rain or sunshine, and in fact you may sue your employer nfor withholding or not paying you on time etc.
So a minister on payroll is still working for God.
Working for God and working for church are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It's not like you can't have both at the same time and that's where you are getting it bad.
What I may add is, oft times working in church comes with some sacrifices especially where the pay may be less than what the market would normally pay.
I'm talking about peripheral or administrative or support duties in a church.
Let's say you are a plumber and you offer your services to your church for less than what you'd otherwise charge. In fact you did it free. I'd be inclined to classify your work as being work for God because you sacrificed the difference between what you charged the church and what you normally charge.
But if you did plumbing for the church at your normal rates then you are working for the church.
ckc: Please does anyone know why all branches of MFM in Nigeria do not play drums in their services? It makes praise and worship uninspiring. I asked one of the workers in the church and they could not provide any reasonable answer which means they are just following a doctrine they don't understand.
MFM is a stupid cult. I know of a sister who prayed while the church burnt hoping their prayers would stop the fire
So I was rushing home from the office one faithfull Friday evening, I was such in a rush that I had to use the uber instead of the normal office bus that normally drop us off at our various bus stop, but I wasn't bordered paying for the uber as it was already 6pm and I had a very important champions league match to watch by 7:45, the taxi guy drove off from our office gate only to stop after some ten minutes after, he was like Oga no vex abeg my fuel don finish, abi u fit wait make I use gallon from my bout rush go buy fuel. I was like what da fvck Are U kidding me great devil u don win last last. I came down from the cab to flag down another taxi only to see this guy, neatly dressed in a sky blue t-shirt with a well ironed black pants and a versace lather belt Holden tight his sky blue shirt neatly tucked into his pant, looked at his shoes and as a shoe guy, I have good collection of shoes it valued more than 50k, and he was Holden a very big envelope that I assumed contains his vital documents. He approached me, introduced himself as a petro-chemical graduate from the university of Calaba, that he came all the way from port-harcourt to Abuja for a job interview with one of the oil firms here in Abuja, that unfortunately for him they prosponed the interview till next week, that he couldn't locate his uncle as he lost his Gsm and wallet earlier to pick pocket thieves, that he is stranded and needed a thousand naira to complete his transport back to port harcourt bla bla bla. At this point he was boring me with his sweet talks as all that was ringing in my head was 7:45 champions league, 7:45 champions league. But the guy looked responsible and Innocent and as a young dude like my self I decided, to be mr. Nice guy I gave him the 1k and thanked me with tears of relive in his eyes, eya I pitied his situation. Then on Saturday while coming back from the gym with my guys, I saw this same dude of yesterday on another different location. Note. This time with a change of cloth. standing and talking to some passerby, I was curious and I decided to approach and ask him why he have not gone back to port harcourt. And to know if he finally located his uncle, so I told my Friends the story he told me yesterday and they pitied him and decided to offer him some cash. so we approached him and he brought out a picture of lady in a hospital with a life threatening injury the spinal cord and claimed that the lady is his wife, that she was admitted yesterday and schedule for operation on Monday but he dosent have the money to finance the operation, God this dude was crying as he explains. But this time I wasn't buying his lies I confronted him, but he denied ever seeing me before, then I snatched the envelope from his hands and opened it an behold brethren, this dude have about 10 different pictures of accident scene and injured people with a different story, which he use to play his victim card, for sympathy and free cash. At this point the dude knew his cover has been blown, and he just started running like a mad man to the amazement of passerby and my friends. I was like what da fvck, so some lazy people can really go this far not to work but make free money? And since then I stopped giving money to people that ask for aid on the road or even beggars in the street either real or fake. It was funny experience with plenty life lessons. Cc Lala
It's easy to quote scriptures suit us, but that doesn't make it good and genuine. That a supposed man of God defends it, doesn't make it good either. The devil very accurately quoted the scriptures when he tempted Jesus Christ, but his intention was to deceive. Be careful people, not everything that appears real, appeals to the eye, sounds real is genuine and is popular is genuine.
Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
You give your tithe to the priest/pastor who brings to you the bread (word of God) and prays for you, who is also a representative of God. This is where tithing began. It predates the law.
Circumcision predates the law as well so what's your point?
6Yahweh created the heavens by His command, the sun, moon, and stars by His spoken word. 7He gathered all the seas into one place; He shut up the ocean depths in storerooms. - Psalm 33:6-7
I was walking with my friend , we were both gisting and laughing out loud, as we walked through a field, we then saw plenty eggs (uncooked ones) on D floor, the eggs was so much that we couldn't step forward without stepping on them, . that's how we started packing them, fortunately for me, I saw a bucket and I was putting mine inside, my friend was putting his own inside his clothes, thousand of people joined and was packing free eggs. after I've packed enough, I suddenly saw maggot coming out from my bucket, I called my friends attention who advised me to throw the eggs away and so I can wash the bucket and start all over since there are still plenty eggs to pack. I then threw up my eggs and went straight to wash the bucket, before I came back, I discovered that all the eggs are gone, I asked my friend what happened and he said FG (Federal Government) have mopped up the area . I was then left stranded without a single egg with me. that's how I woke up.
Nairalanders please who knows what this means.
forgive my Grammar Abeg.
Lalasticlala mynd44
You miss eggs. Fry two or so and you should feel better
hisinkship: Lord please forgive your son for his blasphemy. Listen son I am a Man of God that will send you to God not be an intermediary because nobody is meant to be a grand son of God, We all have access to the throne of grace.
He loves you so much okay, and i cant love you less
I had a testimony two days ago of a friend who told me He tried it out and saw 1. He saw in a revelation lots of Angels blowing trumpets in the sky and I was behind him when he was so amazed he brought out his phone and said He wants to take a snapshot of the Angels and I told Him in the revelation that the Pictures were already there, then He opened his phone and behold they were there in his phone.
- I don't care about revelation of pictures of Angels being in his phone, what i care the most is the Angels rejoicing over one real soul won back to heaven. - I must add that if you are a so called christian and you dont have similar encounters once in 2-3months pls kindly check your christianity its fake because God will always want to reassure you He is still with you. Most people only dream about winning contracts, blessings, money based revelations. Your God is Mammon (The Spirit of Money) which has called many who think they are called by God .
No. 2 In another occasion He said he also saw a very bright light beaming close to him and he heard a voice behind the light saying open your mouth and thereafter the light entered into him through his mouth, which reminds me of a similar example in the bible where He was told to open his mouth to eat a book.
Just understand that God still loves you no matter what you say or think, if you don't understand or not interested just walk away.
I Love you also anyway.
I don't need forgiveness for calling other garbage
There’s an account in the gospels of a man who was possessed and did hurt himself. Jesus Christ healed him. The way the account is made, he is a victim of the demons even if he did hurt himself. I look at suicide as the extreme of hurting yourself. So I’d say if suicide was sin,the victim would not be held accountable for their actions.
Here’s the account; Mark 5:2-13 (KJV) And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.
hopefulLandlord: Our Nairaland Christians can wake Musa Asake up from the dead, after all Jesus said his believers would do "greater works" than he did and promised them they'll get whatever they asked for in his name so long they have faith Distance is no excuse as Jesus healed the centurion's servant from long distance
let's check the bible for those promises about faith and prayer
Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen. “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” (Matthew 21:21-22)
Jesus also reiterated it again
Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20)
and again
Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25)
and again
And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14)
and again
(Matthew 17:20 For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.) then whatever you ask for in prayer will be granted, there are obviously only a few options available.
if the above verses were true, there are obviously only a few options available for Christians to chose after watching their prayers fail over and over again to wake dead people up;
1) the Bible is wrong, Jesus never said these things
2) the Bible is right, Jesus said these things but Jesus was wrong
3) the Bible is right, Jesus said these things but Jesus lied
4) no one who prayed for anything that actually required god's intervention - like amputees - had any faith (Salamanders and Starfish grow back lost limbs all the time. And they never even heard of Jesus)
5) the Bible is just a collection of myths & fables & Yahweh, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Satan doesn't exist
Martinez19: No matter what tragedy a christian faces, other christians are fond of saying "God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you" seriously, let's take a look at some examples.
CHRISTIAN: I lost my whole family in a car accident. ANOTHER CHRISTIAN:"God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you"
CHRISTIAN: I have spent five years in jail for something I didn't do and I have seven more years to go. ANOTHER CHRISTIAN:"God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you"
THOMAS: the doctor said I have stomach cancer. ANOTHER CHRISTIAN:"God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you"
**** Four months later Thomas is dead ****
THOMAS'S SON: My dad died of stomach cancer ANOTHER CHRISTIAN:"God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you"
For logic's sake, the same can be made for gods of other religion and I am sure if all these happened to a Muslim, many christians will laugh at the muslim god's inefficiency forgetting that their's isn't better.
Can any christian on Nairaland tell me what, in this life, can happen to someone who god has abandoned that can't happen to someone who God hasn't abandoned?
Pastor T.B. Joshua has rebuked churchgoers who rely on their “dirty money” to pave way for them to receive God’s blessings.
The cleric, in a sermon, decried the level of ‘pride’ shown by church members nowadays.
“We are too proud – that is why we believe so much in money,” he told congregants at The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations (SCOAN).
“‘Money answereth everything’ – that is the voice of pride”, he continued in the sermon titled ‘Read The Bible With Forgiveness’.
“When you speak, one can hear the voice of money. When you walk, one can see the traces of money… But money is dirty; the journey of money is too far”.
The cleric advised that all genuine Christians should rather engage in an assignment in their various churches, stressing the need to set a day aside in the week for such purpose.
“Get interested in His plans and work with His projects. Go and work in the church where humility can come,” he candidly counselled, explaining this would afford the opportunity to work freely with people irrespective of their social class.
Joshua recounted how his own mother would regularly bring him to church at the weekends and he watched intently as she diligently cleaned the church premises and simultaneously prayed.
“When I asked her what she was saying in her prayers, she told me, ‘Lord, as I clean Your house, clean my life, future, family and children’. Here I am today.”
The cleric further added that people should stay within their respective churches to render their services, without feeling the need to join a ‘megachurch’.
“It’s not the size of the ministry that determines the strength of the ministry,” he explained.
“The strength of the ministry is the relationship of the ministry to God; it is not the population or crowd, fame or popularity. You can see just two members in a church that is more connected to God than the biggest church,” he added.
Joshua further encouraged the faithful not to lose heart when facing persecution, using his own ministerial experience as an example.
“When you look at my antecedents, you will see I have more degrees in persecution than praise. I am a professor when it comes to persecution but I am just a first-degree holder in praise.
“Well, I am not expecting praise because my reward is over there,” he concluded.
Did you just call me silly..cant you make you point like a civilised person..without insulting your father.. Confused daft A-hole..Gerrahia..go look for your mate to argue with..
Civilized people don’t play dumb.
Where’s proof he actually prophesied these events?
My entrance into the investigation of faith-healing began long ago. For more than four decades I have been looking into claims made by psychics, water dowsers, astrolo- gers, and every sort of flim-flam artist ima- ginable. In fact, I established an offer in 1964 which applies to all such claims. The rules are simple, and the document that I send to all potential claimants can be found in Ap- pendix I of this book.
While investigating paranormal claims, I had put all religious claims on a back burner to await my possible attention at a much later date. The recent intense interest infaith-healing, largely brought about by the announced possible candidacy of faith-healer Pat Robertson for the presidency of the Un- ited States, captured my interest. Upon be- ginning my investigation, I quickly became aware of the very sordid, sad, and frighten- ing nature of the entire business, and real- ized that my knowledge of conjuring tech- niques could be put to good use in the quest, since faith-healers were using quite recogniz- able magicians’ methods— both technical and psychological— to accomplish their per- formances. This book can cover only the first stages of what will surely be a difficult and never-ending endeavor. Regardless of the book’s effect on the trade, faith-healers will always be with us. The small but irreducible fraction of humanity that will believe any- thing, no matter how ridiculous, will contin- ue to support the fakery and the fakers well into future generations.
It is impossible to give any sort of an es- timate of how much money is extracted yearly from the victims of faith-healers. In these pages, I will try to outline the financial excesses of several of the leading figures in the field, who bring in fortunes that can only begin to suggest the vast sums generated by the entire industry. The political influence, the attempt to control public morality, and the human suffering that are part of the faith-healing business are factors that are even more difficult to assess.
Until I began receiving the cooperation of some of the workers who were either still in- side the operations or had recently left them, I had little notion of just how large the faith- healing business was and how much misery it produced. The data I have gathered in the form of computer printouts, photocopies of letters and documents— and some origin- als— along with the more than 200 video- tapes directly relating to this investigation,now occupy eleven file drawers in my office, and only representative samples have been included in this book. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HWbqTFGwZHEGr2-VBMV0FLgQulDRk632
"From January to July is battle - the whole world; economic battle, leadership battle and this battle will continue 'til July. By July, we'll begin to see some flame of difference. You have not seen anything; this is just February. Like my country (Nigeria), by May 16th, write it down. I will tell you what will happen. From May 14th, I will tell you what will happen."
Oh if it didnt come to pass..you question his spiritual credilibility..now it came to pass..you are like were did he even prophesy that..when you find it..you still question it as mere guess work..una funny sha.
Don't be silly. What we have is a claim that he prophesied certain events
It is true these events came to pass
What we don't have is evidence that he spoke of these events BEFORE they happened.
It is one thing to claim that he prophesied, and another to prove it
Religion / Re: Preacher's Kids Syndrome by M0ron: 5:19am On May 15, 2018 
and were choked in the sea.
Are U kidding me 
eya I pitied his situation. 
I confronted him, but he denied ever seeing me before, then I snatched the envelope from his hands and opened it an behold brethren, this dude have about 10 different pictures of accident scene and injured people with a different story, which he use to play his victim card, for sympathy and free cash.