TroGunn:

True, Trinity finds no support in the scrptures.

Article is right about Jesus not pre-existing as Almighty God Yahweh.

But article is wrong in deny Jesus preexisted at all - it just opted to ignore scriptures that confirms he preexisted. You need to face up to and explain such verses, like the few below -

ohn 1:1-3 -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made".

John 1:14 -- "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 6:62 -- "Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending TO WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?"

Prov 8:30 -- "Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence"

Matthew 22:41-46 -- "While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
The LORD (Yahweh) said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions"".

You can't just ignore scriptures that go against your personally held beliefs. If you do, you are really no different from Trinitarians, because that's what they do.

Frosbel i would love to see how you explain these scriptures. They seem pretty clear to me. I really need to start studying the bible again. This is interesting

pastormustwacc: I even went as far as to define the meaning of Angels, from a biblical point of view, but. . . .CBB (Confusion Break Bones)

i am confused as well. For those who say d "angel of d covenant" is'nt Jesus who is it then?

true2god: Jesus christ is many occassions regarded himself as the 'son of man'. He is right since he was in the flesh, in a human form, therefore he was regareded as a 'son of man'. All man born of a woman is a 'son of man'. But christ asked his disciples who he really was and Peter replied: 'u r the son of the living God'. Jesus is the 'son of the living God'. But as many as receive him he gave power, right, or privilege to become 'a son of God'. That is to say all human beings are 'sons of men' but not all human are 'sons of God'.

To put ur question right, let me say: is it right to worship the 'son of God'? My straight ansa is YES. This is because the father commanded it (Heb 1:. This is a topic for another thread but if my pple insist im wrong we will equally trash it out on dis thread. R u forbidden frm worshippin an angel? Yes.

Now the issue here is this, virtually most bible translation rendered Heb 1:8 as 'worship' except the NWT. The new word translation rendered the verse as 'obeisance'. There is a difference bw 'worship' and 'obeisance'. U worship a deity while pay obeisance (or pay homage as the case may be) to someone u respect or of a highly authority dan u, not necessarily a deity.

Now lets look at this scenario, during the 'cuba missile crisis of 1962', the americans imposed a naval blockade around cuba in order to avoid an in-flow of nuclear arms to cuba. Blockade in an international relation is an act of war. So in order for the american to remove any legal 'quabble' that might result as a result of their action, called 'blockade' Quarantine, so that their action would not be seen as a direct declaration of war against cuba.

Now back to the issue of 'worship' and 'obeisance', if the watchtower's NWT renderes Heb 1:8 as worship, the will be indirectly acceptin the didvinity of Christ, but if rendered obeisance it will read an entirely different meaning and provide a breathing space on their stance on the person of christ. But u can read the book of psalms 45: 6-7 and compare it with wat u hav in hebrew chapter one and draw ur independent concusion. Angels are not to be worshipd, not even angel michael. The 'son of God' can be worshipped.

Thank u.

sorry for d questions but i'm still a bit confused from your end. From your explanation, Jesus as a man can be worshipped even if we are not to worship mortal man because he is the son of God, but cannot be worshipped as an angel? Pls put me through.

true2god: Barrister 'the genius', the bible is not confused about the person of christ but Jw do. Can u pls compare the person of christ in Isaiah 9:6?

Ok lemme help u in ur personally induced confusion as taught u by watchtower organization:
1) Jesus was 'prophetically' called mighty God, which means he might not truly be a mighty God in real sense (isaiah 9:6)
2)Jesus was also called an messanger, the bible cant and did not give a conflictin account on a person of christ( malachi 3:1). Remember the accounts or activities of angel gabriel heralding christ coming
3) Heb 1: 8, ALL angels ar ask to worship the son compare this to isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, psalm 45: 6-7).

My question to u in the above verse is dis, as a genius u r and i, olodo, accordin to u, was the son directly called God or not? Did the father ask ALL angels to worship the son or not? Are angels made to be worshipped? If God forbade the worship of angels either by man or angels, will God ask the angels to worship the Son? Is there anywhere in the bible an angel refused worship, cos an angel, no matter hw highly placed, is not meant to be worshipped?

My guy if u cant ansa this questions dat shows u r a clown, followin the watchtower's bi-monthly hand-outs without doing ur independent assessment? If u can ansa those question i can take u a bit serios.

i have been following this thread, and i find it interesting. I am not a JW, but until today, i didnt know there was a scripture where Jesus is referred to as an angel..but Malachi quoted above makes it clear. Jesus is referred to as the "son of man" in d bible at least i have seen that before, dnt knw where. Is it ok to worship the "son of man"?