infolekan:
And that is why they are called madmen. Religion does not follow logic the same way science does not.
Logic is the science that governs reliable inference....meaning deducable endpoints. A man without a naira in his pocket who tells you he'z rich definitely does not follow logic cos he can't explain it.
Science doesn't explain logic cos all our education and studies are based on things we can't see....how else do you explain a round world and the fact that we're not falling off? Gravity right? Like you can actually touch it. . And we could all argue about space and matter and molecule but the imple explanation for a mobile phone & how it works still eludes us. God will Bless Us

gbadexy: Sure you can. I am not an islamic scholar and I haven't personally read up to a third of the whole english Quran, but I came across an interesting verse in the Quran.
The Quran has many revelations that scientists
of today can relate to.Q 32.v 5
In a chapter titled prostration in the Quran,
God said the he directs all the activity of the
world from heaven and all the affairs of the
world come up to Him every day. He said that
one day that it takes for the affairs of the world
to reach him is a thousand years in man's
time!
Talking of speed of light! Imagine the number
of hours in a thousand years and see if any
spacecraft can ever travel it.
This concept wouldn't mean anything to a
novice, but to anyone or scientist that is
familiar with astronomy understands that due
to the vastness of space, distance is measured
in light years, imagine the speed a light travels
in a second! Scientists say we are looking at
the past anytime we look at the stars because
they are so far and some have been traveling
for over 400 years to reach us.
Our own sunlight reaches us in 8 minutes, and
yet the Quran states that all the affairs of the
world come up to him daily, that means in
8760 hours multiplied by a thousand and yet
its an instant for God over a huge space.
This shows a revelation that acknowledge the
existence of vast space and time travel, not
some fable or believe that heaven is in the sky
like we were meant to believe about people
building towers to reach heaven.
I'm sure NASA wasn't in existence in
Muhammad's time so he couldn't have thought
that up, and I know if any western scientist
have access or is persuaded to read this verse,
he definitely would look at islam in a new
perspective.

Delafruita:
first,what is religion?it will be a misconception to assume that all religion is basedon faith.there are over 15,000religions in the world and not all of them are illogical.buddhism existed for many years before christ and with the help of king Asoka,it became a state religion.that religion isnt just based on faith in the buddha.itsbased largely on practicing goodand eschewing evil.it has its own tenets which adherrents are expected to believe in without questioning just because the buddha said so but one fact is that the compilers of the tipitaka admit to been the compilers.
the aztecs have one of the weirdest judgement methods ever and according to them,judgement isnt based on if you're good or bad,its based on how you die.
egyptians believe in reincarnation based on how you are buried.
simply put,different religions have different tenets and not all of them are based on blind faith.some of then actually combine a lot of logic such as our traditional religion

Ubenedictus: It seems u are trying to bait me, that is not a good way to make meaningful discussion my mind is open, it seem u have shut urs to d posibility that a soul or spirit exists.

i will discribe it using these two words: satisfaction, fulfilment.

i think u need to see a dictionary.

no it is also intellectual.

dear im very sure i didnt ridicule be for a discussion to begin we need a common ground, you are clearly against anything spiritual and faith is both intellectual and spiritual. It is almost imposible to discus spiritual thing with one who doesnt believe in d spiritual.
I noticed you had no comment about the link i gave.

adetunrayo: dont start another war dudes

Failed predictions

The beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are founded on the basis of its teachings about the second coming of Christ, the Millennium and the Kingdom of God. Watch Tower Society publications have made, and continue to make, predictions about world events they believe were prophesied in the Bible. Some of those early predictions were described as "established truth", and "beyond a doubt". Witnesses are told to accept such teachings without question[4][5][6] and face expulsion if they oppose them.
Failed predictions that were either explicitly stated or strongly implied, particularly linked to dates in 1914, 1918, 1925 and 1975, have led to the alteration or abandonment of some doctrines. The Society's publications have at times dismissed previous statements, asserting that members had "read into the Watch Tower statements that were never intended."[9] or that the beliefs of members were "based on wrong premises."[10] Other failed predictions are ignored; in the book, The Finished Mystery (1917), events were applied to the years 1918 to 1925 that earlier had been held to occur prior to 1914. When the new interpretations also failed to transpire, the 1926 edition of the book altered the statements and removed the dates.[11]
Raymond Franz, a critic and former Witness, has cited publications that claimed God has used Jehovah's Witnesses as a collective prophet.[12] Critics including James A. Beverley have accused the religion of false prophecy for making those predictions, particularly because of assertions in some cases that the predictions were beyond doubt or had been approved by God, but describes its record of telling the future as "pathetic".[13][14][15][16] Beverley says the Watch Tower Society has passed judgment on others who have falsely predicted the end of the world (he cites a 1968 Awake! that says other groups were "guilty of false prophesying" after having "predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date".[17][18]
The Watch Tower Society rejects accusations that it is a false prophet.[19][20] It says its explanations of Bible prophecy are not infallible[21][22][23] and that its predictions are not claimed explicitly as "the words of Jehovah."[19] It states that some of its expectations have needed adjustment because of eagerness for God's kingdom, but that those adjustments are no reason to "call into question the whole body of truth."[24] Raymond Franz claims that the Watch Tower Society tries to evade its responsibility when citing human fallibility as a defense, adding that the Society represents itself as God's appointed spokesman, and that throughout its history has made many emphatic predictions. Franz adds that the organization's eagerness for the Millennium does not give it license to impugn the motives of those who fail to accept its predictions.[6]
George D. Chryssides has suggested widespread claims that Witnesses "keep changing the dates" are a distortion and misunderstanding of Watch Tower Society chronology. He argues that, although there have been failures in prophetic speculation, the changing views and dates of the Jehovah's Witnesses are more largely attributable to changed understandings of biblical chronology than to failed predictions. Chryssides states, "For the Jehovah’s Witnesses prophecy serves more as a way of discerning a divine plan in human history than a means to predicting the future."[25]
Predictions (by date of publication) include:
1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven.[26]
1891: 1914 would be "the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men."[27]
1904: "World-wide anarchy" would follow the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.[28]
1916: World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints".[29]
1917: In 1918, Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions." Church members would "perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy." The dead would lie unburied. In 1920 all earthly governments would disappear, with worldwide anarchy prevailing.[30]
1920: Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth. Those who showed themselves obedient to God would never die.[31]
1922: The anti-typical "jubilee" that would mark God's intervention in earthly affairs would take place "probably the fall" of 1925.[32]
1924: God's restoration of Earth would begin "shortly after" October 1, 1925. Jerusalem would be made the world's capital. Resurrected "princes" such as Abel, Noah, Moses and John the Baptist would give instructions to their subjects around the world by radio, and airplanes would transport people to and from Jerusalem from all parts of the globe in just "a few hours".[33]
1938: In 1938, Armageddon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[34]
1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[35]
1942: Armageddon was "immediately before us."[36]
1966: It would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time.[37] Time was "running out, no question about that."[38] The "immediate future" was "certain to be filled with climactic events ... within a few years at most", the final parts of Bible prophecy relating to the "last days" would undergo fulfillment as Christ's reign began.
1968: No one could say "with certainty" that the battle of Armageddon would begin in 1975, but time was "running out rapidly" with "earthshaking events" soon to take place.[39] In March 1968 there was a "short period of time left", with "only about ninety months left before 6000 years of man's existence on earth is completed".[40]
1969: Human existence would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years." Young Witnesses were told not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[41]
1974: There was just a "short time remaining before the wicked world's end" and Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service."[42]
1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century.[43]

A five-year-old girl is thought to have become the UK's youngest victim of forced marriage.

She was one of 400 children to receive assistance from the government's Forced Marriage Unit in the last year.

The figures have emerged as the public consultation into criminalising forced marriage in England, Wales and Northern Ireland comes to an end.

Deep Sight:

Oh, ok, i thought you were making a definite assertion.

deandavid: my religion christianity can be logical to some EXTENT or level, there are levels where you cannot logically/rationally or scientifically relate with religion,thats where FAITH comes in. I believe in christ, not because i'v seen him physically or because people believe in him, i didnt chose christianity, God chose me to be a christian, how can u logically explain that?

~Bluetooth:


You sound like an atheist even though okeyxyz is trying hard to defend religion as being logical. . . .From my little understanding,Religion has its own ethics which is not subjected to any logical reasoning.

These ethics cant be disputed and its obligatory on those that abide by the standards of every religion.If scientific theories cant be questioned or modified,should we now assume that science itself is illogical since it's not based on sound reasoning.I'm sure you know that not all scientific theories are really valid !

domiron: Can i have your number?. What are the specifications, terms of payment etc?. U can call me on 08025156269

okeyxyz:
But people of faith do have a reason for believing, don't they? The subject of their belief must meet a set of criteria/logic before they decide to believe. You cannot say it's without logic simply because it's a different system from yours. Hell!, Even a mad man has a reason for his thoughts & behaviours, though best known to him alone, Which is why psychiatrists study, analyse, categorize and treat them.

Ubenedictus: dear friend i dont have a special word for what transcend reason, but i have an experience it. do u want to help me. I never mentioned superiority i talked about transcended. It is imposible to explain spiritual matter to someone who doesnt believe he has a spirit. We need a starting point.

better still i can give you a link to pope john paul documents on faith and reason. It is a christian perspective and to be specific a catholic perspective. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html i would be happy to discuss with anyone on the points he raised.
Peace

okeyxyz:
Okay, would you be happier if i rephrased as: logic is a pattern of reasoning & behaviour? Is there any behaviour without reason?
Your dictionary references has not contradicted me, Just used different words to say the same things.

Deep Sight:

A little learning is a sad and terrible thing. You display gross mis education here. Please its not by force. If these concepts are beyond you, e sha fi le.

okeyxyz:
There's no difference. Logic is a pattern of behaviour. each entity/group has it's own logic/behaviour.

log·ic (ljk)
n.
1. The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.

a (1) : a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning

mkmyers45: If you see good price enter EJ for rise till 3:03

okeyxyz:
So what makes a christian different from moslem/bhuddist/atheist? is it not his principles/values system? Once you can identify an entity/group and can describe it's characteristics and predict it's behaviour, then theres a logic behind such behaviour/predictions.

okeyxyz:
So if 100 percent expected reaction is not guaranteed does that invalidate logic? Even scientific outcomes are not 100 percent guaranteed and that's why there continues to be researches to understand the variances. That's why every scientific fact is defined within parameters/conditions, which means these outcomes are not universal.
Regarding christianity, If a typical christian has se.x with a woman he's not married to, it considered fornication and it continues to be fornication as long as such woman is not married to him. So what's not predictable about that?

SimonAndal: Say what??

okeyxyz:
Faith/religion is a logic, it may not be your cup of tea but it is for somebody else and that's why he practices it. What is logic? Simply put: logic is a principle or manner of thought/action. Religion operates on the principle of morality, It has it's definitions of right/wrong, as long as it's consistent, then it's logical. Period. Just as there are principles of accountancy & finance, Principles of law, democracy, communism, etc. You cannot declare a discipline as illogical just because it's not your choice. You observe religious people and you expect them to behave in a certain way because of their faith, That proves the logic of their faith because you can predict their reactions to certain events, Does that not demonstrate a consistency in their manner of actions? Thus logical!!

okeyxyz:
Faith/religion is a logic, it may not be your cup of tea but it is for somebody else and that's why he practices it. What is logic? Simply put: logic is a principle or manner of thought/action. Religion operates on the principle of morality, It has it's definitions of right/wrong, as long as it's consistent, then it's logical. Period. Just as there are principles of accountancy & finance, Principles of law, democracy, communism, etc. You cannot declare a discipline as illogical just because it's not your choice. You observe religious people and you expect them to behave in a certain way because of their faith, That proves the logic of their faith because you can predict their reactions to certain events, Does that not demonstrate a consistency in their manner of actions? Thus logical!!

Ubenedictus: as far as im aware religion is very logical, it uses logic and reason, it is not opposed to reason or logic but it trancends reason and logic. I think a google search will reveal pope benedict's ideas of faith and reason.

mkmyers45:

i don enter sha

wiegraf: What are you asking, can a faith based system work in tandem with logic/science? Obviously no. Once it can be tested, verified etc it stops being labeled 'faith' and levels up to a tag like 'fact', 'science' etc.( When ppl claim some dogma from a faith based system is a fact you have to wonder what the hell are they talking about. They're called 'faith based' for a reason for f#*k's sake,, they are not based on fact.)

Religion on the other means a lot of things, so you'll have to clarify.

tpia@:
religion is very logical, imo.

if you disagree, that's your own opinion and no need to jump up in frenzy, thanks.

Korrection: This is really getting serious...are there still people in the north....just a clear term that we are no longer together.....divided we stand united we fall...I weep for naija

MacDaddy01:



Impossible.

Belief in God is not logical, it is based on faith