I've spoken to a few Nigerians andyou can't imagine that most of these ppl either male or female went through something deeply disturbing as child. The sad truth is they never tell their parent and will never tell their parent because of their parents style of parenting. So if parents do not even know, this means the police will never know and these people cannot be prosecuted. By the way the veil i'm talking about is sexual assault either as a child or as an adult.

Is it high time we spared the rod and employ the western style parenting? i.e have an open door relationship with our kids so they are not scared to talk to us and we can quickly take actions especially by not allowing them to visit that uncle or aunty that always wants them to visit.

It seems to be working for the familie employing this style. Or is it still the case of spare the rod and spoil the child

It's about time followers of backward African cultures recognize their backwardness. We've been practicing child abuse in the name of "discipline" for too long. It's time to get smart and do things right.

For More Information:
- Best Way to Punish Kids?
- My Views On Corporal Punishment
- Non-violent Child Discipline

You can still be close to your child without sparing the rod. Parents need to know what's going on in their children's lives, be open enough to discuss anything but at the time ensure proper discipline when necessary.
Children should be taught to take responsibility for their actions or inactions.

Spare the rod and soil the child. (Proverbs 13:24) It doesn't get more accurate than that. How do you expect a 7 year old to understand the difference between right and wrong in its totality without the help of a cane once in a while?

It is the failure to adhere to this simple injunction that is leading to the decay of western society as we know it.

Chxta, our society is more corrupt than the western society, so what are you saying.

Bleh. As losers, we Africans are trying to redefine the meaning of success to make ourselves winners. We are trying to define the meaning of corruption and decadence to make ourselves morally superior. Shame on us!

We are treating our kids with cruelty and they in turn treat their kids the same way saying "that's how my parents did it and I turned out right". But if we had truly turned out right, we wouldn't be doing this. Pfft.

One of my step-Aunts is a real mean woman and Her sisters are real Angels.
She slaps me around when I visits her and sometimes she curses me out
She forgets, I'm from a different Race, generations and culture from hers.
I tell you if she keeps on abusing me, I will report her to the Cops.
I know she is an illegal immigrant, I could get her deported back to Nigeria ( if I wanted to )
But I love my Step-Dad too much and I don't want to hurt Him.
Anyway, I've stopped visiting Her and whenever she visits my house, I always hide

Beating a child doesn't give them a sense of morality. It just teaches them how to duck and to fear. It also tells them that all wrong things deserve the same punishment so it's counter productive. A lot of kids get so used to being beaten that it has no effect and just makes them aggressive and non-communicative. I don't plan to hit my children when I have them but that doesn't mean that they won't have good home training.

@lunafish: Now, that's an enlightened African woman! Please make sure you marry a man who feels the same way or so your knowledge won't be wasted. You may not be able to stop daddy from beating them.

Very interesting thread.

When kids are beaten, people often say it is for their own good and when they grow up they will
realise it and be appreciative for the discipline. Well, I'm all grown up now and whenever I recall
how my dad used to beat us as children, I feel bitter.

Parents need to find ways to discipline their children without resorting to beating them. Saying "that's
how I was raised and I turned out okay" does not warrant continuing this behavior.

I don't have kids yet, but I know I won't turn them into punching bags all in the name of discipline.

Chxta:

Spare the rod and soil the child. (Proverbs 13:24) It doesn't get more accurate than that. How do you expect a 7 year old to understand the difference between right and wrong in its totality without the help of a cane once in a while?

It is the failure to adhere to this simple injunction that is leading to the decay of western society as we know it.

A 7 year old child goes to school not so so they know wrong from right.
Even a 3 yearold knows wrong from right. But they still test how far they can go.
My answer is try talking to Them I mean take time for them . to explain.
You are quoting the OT ?. Did Jesus not say let the children come to me for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven. Dis he not say something about turning the other cheek.
Parents are taller than children and the children have to look up to them.
When my kids and i had some thing serious to tell them , i used to bend down so that i will be on eye level with them. Then i will tell them what i have to say eye to eye, ,
And make sure they listen,

I think the issue here is, parents over beating their kids. That is, not knowing when to stop. If your child misbehave, spank him/her. It will put a lil fear of God in them. Moderate fear is a good thing. It makes you aware of the your surrounding. The US Marine use to say  'pain is nothing but weakness leaving the body'.

A quintessential Nigerian mom/dad will beat the leaving daylight out of their kid - leaving series of mark on them. Thats where the problem starts. Once they get used to the beating, the effect will be lost like lunafish said.

Always giving your child a time-out no matter what he did ain't helping either. It will eventually give him the notion that he can get away with anything and you will agree with me, there is no time out in real life. Some parents don't know how to 'talk' to their kids. Some kids will even prefer you beat them than take the crap thats coming out of your mouth.

Adopting western style is not the solution. If them western country wants to spare the rod, they should let a murderer, robbers go free - give them a time-out. Thats sparing the rod, ain't it? Of course, you can always prove me wrong.

The point is, do everything in moderation. Parents, as well as their children should learn to take responsibility of their action.

Always giving your child a time-out no matter what he did ain't helping either. It will eventually give him the notion that he can get away with anything

Since when did non-violent child discipline become reduced to just "time-out"? There are so many methods you need to be aware of. Denial of privileges is probably the most versatile system, so "time out" is not the issue here. You can deny them of TV. You can deny them of unecessary snacks. You can withdraw phone privileges. Duh!

There are so many methods we refuse to even consider because of our brutality mentality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-violent_child_discipline

If them western country wants to spare the rod, they should let a murderer, robbers go free - give them a time-out.

Isn't the prison system itself a form of "time-out"?

there is no time out in real life

There is no beating in civilized society either. If you offend against your boss, your university lecturer, your president, your husband or wife, and they are civilized, will they beat you? No. Unless of course they have beaten as kids to the point where they now think it's appropriate to go around beating people that piss them off.

What is bad is bad. It is not a question of degree. I can't lay a hand on a child of mine unless the offence is that such a child was caught beating someone else. Even in that scenario, beating might not be the answer.

I think the point is the meaning of ROD in this context.
Rod here stands for anything that could induce pain or discomfort. Take away the tv, phone, games or allowances from some children and they cry(with or without tears). What if you deny another child these things and he sleeps in his room all week without being bothered?
I think for punishment to make any sense, it's impact/effect must be felt.
I believe children should be disciplined with love.

There are so many methods you need to be aware of. Denial of privileges is probably the most versatile system, so "time out" is not the issue here. You can deny them of TV. You can deny them of unnecessary snacks. You can withdraw phone privileges. Duh!

The problem we have in Nigeria is copying what other 'civilised' nations are doing without checking how they got to where they are and the system they put in place to get them there. Take for instance in America, if they think you are not taking good care of your kids or that you beat them, they will take and put them in foster care. Good. Is there such a thing in Nigeria? You said denial of privileges is the most versatile system. What privileges can you deny an average Nigerian child?? How many ordinary Nigerian parents can afford to buy 'snacks' for their kids? have phone at home? what program on Nigerian TV network can you possibly deny a kid that will make him cry?? How many kids in Nigeria even consider TV a privilege?

It might work in the so called civilized world but not in Nigeria, yet. Not until the complementary systems has been put in place. Because somebody wrote them in some website does not make it the universal guideline in all situation.

Isn't the prison system itself a form of "time-out"?

The reason for the time-out or denial of privileges as you mentioned is to avoid physical or body harm right? Yet convicted prisoners are molested, raped, sodomized in prison everyday. Does that justify putting them there? Can you say that the government, prosecutor or even the judge that sent him there is not 'civilised'? However you look at this, the price you pay for doing wrong will always result in pain. How painful that is will justify the effect.

No one in their right mind will brutalize his/her kid but there comes a time you need to put your feet on the ground and act as a father/mother - here i go again, in MODERATION

I agree with ynot on this issue. He knows exactly what he is talking about. The western society's way of bringing up their children has failed totally. They are now trying to go back to the old style parenting. Our parents did beat us, yes, no question about that but it has not made us social misfits or are we dependent on anti-depresants. We did not turn out to be child molesters or serial rapists. Take a look at the children in the UK and you will be amazed at how sorry those childrens morals are. They do not respect even their own parents, they tell their mothers to shut the f***k up in public. Now that is what you want us to copy? Please be serious!!!

The Royal Family still practices the old style family values, why don't we keep to that as we have always done? Why do we have to copy the illiterate white family and practice their nonesense. I admit that some parents take it OTT (over the top) but we should get a balance where we do not abuse our children but to correct them.

The topic is not too focused too much om if we should spank our kids or not. Personally i think it can be a neccessity just in moderation and explain to the kid why they deserve the spanking. Obviously the spanking has to come as a last resort after warning, talking to the kid and taking away a priviledge which can even be playing with their friends(just to answer ynot's question about what priviledge an average Nigerian has).

However, the topic is more focused on our parenting style. Kids are too afraid of their parents and cannot approach them on anything and even when they eventually get through, the replies from some parents is so absurd that the kids fears intensifies. At the beginning of the topic, i gave an example. When kids happen to tell their parents of such an uncle or aunt, they tell the kid to shut up, take the side of the relative and the case will be swept under the carpet,

My question is are they doing this because of a priviledge they receive from the relative, or are they scared of what it will do to the family or do they just not believe,care or trust their kids. As a kid you will be confused and if your parents did nothing to help, i'm sure it will have an after effect later on won't it?

i have four children and i have had this discussion on here before however sexual abuse has nothing to do with parenting.

My mother went over the top in todays society it would be seen as abuse and i was petrified of her because she would beat and then ask question when i was raped at 6 years old i told no one, i know she would have been there for me but i was just to scared to tell her, however every parent knows their children and i am telling you if my mother never beat the shit out of me i do not know where i would be today more to the point i would not slap my kids on the head with a pot, but our parents did what they thought was best.


i slap my kids not for every thing, they know the rules if my kids do anything to put there education or life at risk  I WILL TAKE THE BELT AND SLAP THEM, if they disrespect me in anyway i will slap them, anything else i talk to them. My boys can ask mummy anything from sex to education what i do not know  i look up on the net, but i will not westernize my kids hell no.


all those who think we should westernize our kid should be carefull what u ask for, look at what happen last week in Manchester the boy is 15 years old shot dead, what the f u c k is he doing in a park at 2am in the morning that is western society. It is not easy being a parent and i will not stop slapping them until they are all teenagers.

Kudos to you but just like you said

Coco29:

My mother went over the top in todays society it would be seen as abuse and i was petrified of her because she would beat and then ask question when i was raped at 6 years old i told no one

You are still implementing the old system but with changes i respect that and hope others follow through. I'm sure you read everything i said i never said don't beat just don't beat the shit out of them that they will be too scared to approach you which is exactly what you are doing.

It's also not only about sexual abuse, you often see kids doing a lot of things in order to keep their parents in the dark. I wated the manchester one but same goes gor Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman and they A level kid that was killed with an axe in Birmingham last year whilst escorting his white girlfriend home. I'm not justifying what they did to him but don't walk around that late in the night. Saying that though. i didn't get back home until 1.30am last night. So it's gotta be done sometimes.

do u honestly believe that a 15 yr old should be on the streets at 2 am ?? in England

Men i am actually getting tired of Nairaland. The discussions here and the replies are just getting weirder and weirder. I mean, seriously, take a look at the so called utopian western culture, and see how the kids behave, you see kids, small childern, cussing out and beating their parents, and all the parents say is, ' Oh Johnny, i'm so sorry', or , 'Johnny, u cant do that!', and just trash like that.
How else can a child learn right from wrong. I am not an advocate of over beating to the extreme, BUT, i strongly believe that children have to be discipled WITH the rod once a while.
I remember, as a child, my dad used to beat me sometimes, and i hated him for that, but now, i really appreciate him, cos of what i am now. The thing is that he always called me back and explained to me why he beat me, and jus talked me thru the whole thing. Men, i really appreciate my dad for that.
So yea, ya'll who think that the western method of raising up kids is ideal, think again, go into the western society and observe, childern are soo unruly, and grow up to be, yea, worse off. Ask any Nigerian living abroad.

@comechop

Stop being extreme on this issue. Non-violent disciplinarian parents are still parents and disciplinarians. Their expectations for their childrens' behaviour is the same as any other parent. Being non-violent will give your child a wonderful life skill called self control. This requires being able to behave well in any environment without having to be forcefully coerced e.g. beaten. Many beaten children are violent and become bullies because they feel like a powerless underdog/victim. They then steal their power back by bullying others or their own children. Pass down something more useful to your kids han how to be "handy" wiith a belt or a slipper. Communication as a part of discipline allows a child to learn about reasons and repercussions so it's an actual lesson. By the way, has it ever occurred to you that when you felt bitter towards your father (when you were beaten) the emotion of bitterness clouded your vision to the lesson your father was trying to teach you. How many years did it take for you to understand what he was trying to teach you?

@ Seun
Thank you. I know that when I have children no-one will have the right to lay their hands on my children besides my own mother (that wouldn't happen - she loves kids too much.) I would never allow their father to hit them; he'd hit me first (can you say Divorce?)

People- you can raise respectful children without hitting them: it just takes some actual effort. You get out of your children what you put in them. So if you want some passive-aggressive, intimidating, withdrawn and non-expressive children keep hitting them.

am I the only Nigerian who wasn't hammered by their parents growing up? My dad only hit me once in my life and that was when I endangered my own life and I wasn't offended because I knew he was just terrified. I turned out OK and have never disrespected my parents. Sure we disagree from time to time but I know my limits. I live on my own now and am pretty successful and if I ever have children, hitting them is not an option. I didn't have a perfect upbringing but at least I know something of what works. And yeah, I know a lot of Western kids who are perfectly polite to their parents while I've seen some Nigerian kids (in Naija no less) cursing out their parents to their face

In short, don't generalize. It's becoming really irritating. All this morality bla bla bla and saying how immoral the Western society is is boring and just a smokescreen to hide the vast imperfections in our society.

Sparing the rod, that's why America is so messed up morally, my dad (God bless his soul) spanked me evrytime I came back from FEGO w/o my books and clothes. Thank God he did, otherwise I won't be where I am today.

Waoh!!!!!! This thread is kinda interesting.

Considering that for some days now this issue has been bugging me and now i see it in the forum. The truth is dat the family system is gradually fading and that is what is spoiling every thing.

You can spank a child and he will turn out well, you can also NOT SPANK A CHILD AND HE WILL ALSO TURN OUT WELL. But i think every child should be treated on a case to case basis if we are to be realistic.

You can spank a child with so much love especally when the child knows he/she has done wrong and they will be so ashamed and sorry that they will try as much as possible not to do it again.

I and my 3 brothers grew up with our mum after we lost our dad, she worked real had to give us her best. And were we close?

She spanks us when we did wrong. But she was always there for us. We could see how much she loved us she was never too busy.

Love is the solution not OVER COMPENSATING which most parents do now, give a child every thing she wants and never be there for her, compensating with money toys etc.

If parents are close really close to their children then there will be communication and you get to know your child so much that we she says she was molested by an Uncle then you will know that she can not just fake it.

Even in the western world some kids suffer the same thing, and yet not all of them can complain you only hear of it when they all grown.

CLOSENESS AND LOVE IS THE ONLY WAY OUT

Nice topic here , am not one to encourage violence of anykind but when i see the way kids behave in london.or anytime i watch the program super nanny.i see the need for a bit of the rod, while growing up my mum was the harsh 1 my dad belived in talking sense into a child though i am closer to my dad now cos of that, u know wat kept me good those days, was not even the rod.it was the tot of em.cos my mom use to buy em from some darm mallams and never failed to remind us they were handy.then u know those killer looks when u misbehaving in presence of visitors and in public that say more than words.believe me i truned out good.respect elders,no stealing,no talkin back at elders.u know the works, belive the rod helps sometimes.

I stumbled on this discussion which is on a topic I have very strong opinions about. What we are talking about is this: what is fair treatment for a child who has done something (which children do) wrong. Forget what happens anywhere else in the world because the conclusions I see here are quite shortsighted. For example using examples from super nanny to argue that it is good to beat children does not really talk to why the children behave the way they do. It could be because of a complete lack of discipline e.g. deprivation, scolding, beating, time out etc. In fact it could easily be because the parents have beat the children to the point where they become disfunctional. We don't know why the children behave the way they do on the streets of London, so we should not say because they do not get beaten.

I will tell you this, the use of violence to get a child to behave one way or the other is the easiest and laziest approach. If a child is too young to understand scolding words, deprivation of privileges, reasoning then that child is definitely too young to understand why violence is being visited on him or her. Even animals are no more trained with the use of violence. Parents who visit violence on their children in the name of discipline sometimes do so out of their own frustration. I can tell you that for the same misbehaving a child will get a slap on the hand on the day the dad is very happy and a thourough beating on the day the man is frustrated by work, his wife, the police or his relations.

To beat your child as a way to vent your frustration is nothing less than barbaric. The only thing worse than beating your child is to sanction other people to beat your child. So a teacher who was deprived sex by his wife the night before can walk into class and give all students 2 strokes of the cane. Your sister will come home from work find your child and his child being naughty and might decide to punish your child by beating him or her. Of course your sister thinks that your child is the bad influence.

So I think, if you have the time and patience and common sense to bring your children up well with love and dedication, you will not need the so called rod. Because some of my most disciplined friends when I was growing up where the ones whose parents lived abroad for a while and who did not get beaten by their parents, but had such close relationships with their parents that they did not want to do anything to hurt them. For me and the ones who got beaten, the question of not hurting our parents never came up. We were more concerned with not getting caught so that we don't get beaten.

owen, thanks for being an enlightened person. Your (future) wife and children are to be envied.

hehe like superman always say we never appreciate what we have when we had it! too bad. wha cha yall on about hmm.

that nigerian society is more corrupt than the western well hahha ,  to be contd

that africans should copy the westeren styl in bringin up their kids well it depends on measures u are refering to i guess . but take note they just had a survey here in london and 90% believe smackin kids is cool for real and even tony bair wife smack her kids! o boy no one is saying u shuold or not smack your kids but i think it should be with minimum force strictly minimum! and some common sense when necessary might do the job when needed! shoutin on top of your voice always doest help.

god bless nigeria!

I was just looking at some of those non-violent punishment methods on Wikipedia.

So what happens if:

Time-outs
You want tell the naughty child "time out", and he disregards your time out by running away from the designated time-out space?

Distraction
You try to distract the child but he continues to be disruptive?

Reason
The child is not at an age where he can clearly understand your reasoning (i.e. 12-24 months), or he doesn't want to listen?

Consequences
The child wants to put his hand in fire?

Modelling
The child simply ignores the example you're trying to set?

Scolding
The child doesn't care - after all, he's receiving attention?

Face it - sometimes, Mr. Koboko needs to get involved.

Here is a powerful one:
- Feeding him with protein-rich goop instead of normal food.
If you're feeding someone, you can control the person without violence.

What if non-violent methods don't work? Call the police. Duh. Or sometimes, you may be wrong

From my experience, most people that are saying that Koboko is necessary have not even tried the alternatives. If you have been bringing your child up consistently and nonviolently he won't suddenly become a goat that needs to be beaten with koboko. If non-violence can succeed, only a wicked parent will use violence.

This so called seun or whoever you are, i must say i notice that in as much as you always try to make people talk in the context of an issue, you have always been myopic just like a lawyer asking a geologist to answer yes or no in court when there are no yes and no in geology as a science.(sorry for the digression). My Dad beat me when i was growing up and its only today that i appreciate the beatings. he never raised the cane out of malice but to make me see what i had done wrong, such that i think twice before trying that sort of a thing again.When it comes to comparing the spanking with the western way of upbringing, please take a walk into a school in the UK and nobody will tell you where to draw the line. When i was growing up, my last brother received less or no cane cos he was gentle or even sensible wheres me and my immediate younger one were the die hard always trying to prove a point of exploit and as such we got the whooping which has made us the better. A child is only disciplined with the came out of necessity Pareant also have to talk to a child always. BUT i stand to say BOLDLY, under no circumstances should you eliminate the cane. the cane should always be a standby.Denial of privileges does more harm. it turns some children into recluse cos it is a way of escape to cope with the deprivation. But on the other hand, the thot of daddy's belt makes you think twice before you go ahead with that wrong move. Parents don't use the cane for the fun of it, so please don't get confused on that

My mother beat me far more than my father ever did.  As a matter of fact, my dad beat me just twice while I was growing up, whereas my mum beat me 'uncountable' times.  While my dad would talk, lecture, sermon, shout and scold, my mum would only shout a few times, before eventually bringing Mr. Koboko into the scene.  While my father used a leather belt which I barely felt the impact, my mother would apply force using a very strong fat cane.  Yet, I'm closer to my mum, and I prefer my mother to my father anyday, anytime.

The thing is; it works differently for different children.  There is no universal/standard way of dealing with children, and there should never be any.  Otherwise, things will only turn out the way we don't expect.