the joke is funny sha. u can't lie. theist or not, it was funny. Even though I think the idea of a atheist asking for a holy day is kinda ridiculous.

Kay 17:

@ deep sight, i have indicated many times my leanings, i do not BELIEVE in any religion or in PINK unicorns and religion is incapable of standing on truth. or do you want me to write a treatise on it?

Kay, this is becoming embarrasing.

You are yet to answer my questions. It matters little to me what you personally believe. I asked those questions because i suspect from your posts that you hardly understand the words "atheism" or "agnosticism."

Let me simplify the question -

Define these words -

1. Athiest

2. Agnostic

And state if you would categorize yourself as either.

@topic

- An yet the self delusion continues . . .

-  Is he not going to bring court case against islamic days also or is her scared that those ones do not mind chopping off his head or something . . . 

I laugh in Gluons . . .

mesings:

@ all the atheist in the house

i always wondered, how does it feel to live without hope?

It feels horrible and bad . . .I am not an atheist and I have been in situations where it feels like there is no hope and trust me . . . it is horrible.

That is why you see that the issue of suicides is rampant in the West cus . . .the sense of hopelessness and purposelessness becomes so overwhelming that death seems to be the only way out.

Unfortunately, suicide is not the way out cus killing yourself itself is also not permitted cus you do not own yourself hence you are not even permitted to kill yourself . . . hence its double jeopardy for those that comitt suicide.

davidylan:

1. We know what atheism is about - a cowardly way of refusing to take moral responsibility for your life.

2. We know why you "despise" christianity . . . (funny since none of you ever despises islam, scientology or sango worshipers) its because you hate the moral discipline it forces on you. It has nothing to do with what christianity has done to you.

David are you serious? Atheists refusing to take moral responsibility for their life?. Are you playing with paradoxes?.

Because that statement applies to Christians than any other world view. It is a cardinal doctrine of Christianity not to accept responsibility for ones actions. The cardinal doctrine which i find absurd, is that once you are born again, you are no longer responsible for your sins, Christ by dying on the cross has carried all our sins - past and future, you only need to ask for forgiveness and your are as white as snow. The only problem is that the cycle of since and asking for forgiveness is limitless.

They also have numerous other catch phrases to escape taking responsibility for their own actions. Like;

1. The devil made me do it.
2. The flesh is week.
3. It is the will of God.
4. I was guided by the holy spirit.
5. The devil is a lair.
6. We fight not against flesh and blood but principalities.

And hundreds of others.

Most moral people i have come in contact with are either Atheists, Agnostics or liberal Christians and Muslims. The religiously fervent Born again Christian or fundamentalist Muslim almost always end up being morally bankrupt including most of your General Overseers, pastors, and reverends.

Even if you study the world corruption index, you will find a direct correlation between corruption and degree of religiosity of the countries.

@ Wirinet and Toneyb

You guys should stop assuming that davidylan knows what he is talking about. He talks about moral values as if there is any to be found in the myth he subscribes to. His evidence to show that christians are more morally responsible for their lives than atheist is?. . . . i laugh in greek. . .By the way what kind of morality is it that is entirely predicated on a self-interested desire to escape some imaginary damnation? This seems to bypass the very core of what we mean by morality, which is an actual concern for the welfare of other human beings. Clearly it is possible to teach our children to form such a concern and to grow in empathy and compassion without lying to ourselves or to them about the nature of the universe,without pretending to know things we do not know.

Which is more moral?Helping the poor, feeding the hungry, defending the weak,out of a mere concern for their wellbeing, or doing so because you think the creator of the universe wants you to do it and will reward you for it?, . . . .The truth is people do not need to be threatened with damnation to love their children, to love their friends, to want to collaborate with strangers, or indeed to recognize that helping strangers and not hurting others can be one of their greatest sources of happiness. . . . .

mesings:

@ all the atheist in the house

i always wondered, how does it feel to live without hope?

It depends on what you mean by hope, If by hope you mean that we wake up hoping to see a better day with less challenges then, it will be very difficult to live without that kind of hope, but if by hope you mean having faith in the fantasies and myths that others have written which have been demonstrated to be lies then I will tell you that we don't have that kind of hope. Can't you see that what you tag as hope requires FAITH?. . . .I always defined faith as a belief held in the absence of evidence or even despite contradictory evidence. Because at some level everyone realizes that believing on faith means nothing more than believing it because you have an emotional bias for believing it and they also realize that wanting to believe that something is true is in no way evidence for and doesn't even have any logical relationship to whether that thing is actually true. . . . . .

People only believe on faith when they are forced to,due to a lack of evidence for the thing they want to believe. Only when and where they are forced to rely on faith due to lack of evidence, do they then proclaim that faith itself is a virtue. This is merely a post-hoc attempt to con themselves into thinking that faith might actually have evidential value and to lessen the shame they feel for the self-delusion and abandoning or their own reasoning mind that faith entails. The idea that some god would reward faith based belief is senseless, and even theists realize it on some level. Theists do not have faith because they think their god will reward faith. They have faith because they want to believe in a god and an afterlife but have no rational basis to do so, then they make up the notion that having faith is itself a good thing. . .We choose to accept reality it as it is and do not need false hope. . . .

wirinet:

David are you serious? Atheists refusing to take moral responsibility for their life?. Are you playing with paradoxes?.

Because that statement applies to Christians than any other world view. It is a cardinal doctrine of Christianity not to accept responsibility for ones actions. The cardinal doctrine which i find absurd, is that once you are born again, you are no longer responsible for your sins, Christ by dying on the cross has carried all our sins - past and future, you only need to ask for forgiveness and your are as white as snow. The only problem is that the cycle of since and asking for forgiveness is limitless.

They also have numerous other catch phrases to escape taking responsibility for their own actions. Like;

1. The devil made me do it.
2. The flesh is week.
3. It is the will of God.
4. I was guided by the holy spirit.
5. The devil is a lair.
6. We fight not against flesh and blood but principalities.

And hundreds of others.

Most moral people i have come in contact with are either Atheists, Agnostics or liberal Christians and Muslims. The religiously fervent Born again Christian or fundamentalist Muslim almost always end up being morally bankrupt including most of your General Overseers, pastors, and reverends.

Even if you study the world corruption index, you will find a direct correlation between corruption and degree of religiosity of the countries.

I entirely agree with this. The vast majority of people in Sweden and Finland are not concerned with religion at all. . . atheists, agnostics, humanists etc. Yet those nations rate amongst the best in terms of transparency, absence of corruption and general crime.

Nigeria, by contrast, the most religious country in the world, is also the most corrupt.

Religion really has no relevance to the modern man's ethics.

Anyhow David has clearly stated in the past that "Christianity has nothing to do with eithics," so we should not be surprsied.

mazaje:

@ Wirinet and Toneyb

You guys should stop assuming that davidylan knows what he is talking about. He talks about moral values as if there is any to be found in the myth he subscribes to. His evidence to show that christians are more morally responsible for their lives than atheist is?. . . . i laugh in greek. . .By the way what kind of morality is it that is entirely predicated on a self-interested desire to escape some imaginary damnation? This seems to bypass the very core of what we mean by morality, which is an actual concern for the welfare of other human beings. Clearly it is possible to teach our children to form such a concern and to grow in empathy and compassion without lying to ourselves or to them about the nature of the universe,without pretending to know things we do not know.

Which is more moral?Helping the poor, feeding the hungry, defending the weak,out of a mere concern for their wellbeing, or doing so because you think the creator of the universe wants you to do it and will reward you for it?, . . . .The truth is people do not need to be threatened with damnation to love their children, to love their friends, to want to collaborate with strangers, or indeed to recognize that helping strangers and not hurting others can be one of their greatest sources of happiness. . . . .

Again i wholly agree. People should to be good because goodness springs naturally from their hearts, and not because they have been promised a carrot in heaven or threatened with a stick in hell.

Deep Sight:

Again i wholly agree. People should to be good because goodness springs naturally from their hearts, and not because they have been promised a carrot in heaven or threatened with a stick in hell.

I want davidylan to tell us if the only thing that is stoping him from becoming a serial rapist, a drunk, a murderer or a bugler is because he believes that he will be punished when he dies. . . .What system of morality is this that is based purely on the self-interested desire to escape some imaginary damnation I ask again?

I like this Idea and concept of hell, It really is the basis of morality for the christians and moslems. It keeps them in line. Its funny that these same people talk about morality since they believe they are moral only because they believe they are trying to escape some imaginary damnation not beause they actually believe that morality it self is good. . . .deluded people. . .

Very funny but is the truth

mazaje:

I want davidylan to tell us if the only thing that is stoping him from becoming a serial rapist, a drunk, a muderer or a bugler is because he believes that he will be punished when he dies. . . .What system of morality is this that is based purely on the self-interested desire to escape some imaginary damnation I ask again?

The believers are behaving the way they do mostly through indoctrination. That's the reasons they're so quick to assume atheists are all immoral savages  the religion teaches them that atheist(Those that do not believe in their hypothesis) are degenerate animals. This same lie is being told over and over and over and over again throughout their lives that the atheists are walking embodiments of lust, violence, jealousy, anger, sin, etc They spend their lives living under the weight of that twisted accusation (some crack heads amongst them and blow up abortion clinics, etc), but they're all secure in the knowledge that they will be saved despite it. But since the atheists,  and other non believers  etc. don't have Yahweh to make us feel guilty and terrified about all the stuff THEY feel guilty and terrified about, it's easy enough for them to point the finger and assume that while we're all equally bleeped in the head, WE (the non-Christians and atheists especially) are the ones with the problem, because we lack the proper "controls". Pure delusion I must say.

toneyb:

The believers are behaving the way they do mostly true indoctrination. That's the reasons they're so quick to assume atheists are all immoral savages the religion teaches them that atheist(Those that do not believe in their hypothesis) are degenerate animals. This same lie is being told over and over and over and over again throughout their lives that the atheists are walking embodiments of lust, violence, jealousy, anger, sin, etc They spend their lives living under the weight of that twisted accusation (some crack heads amongst them and blow up abortion clinics, etc), but they're all secure in the knowledge that they will be saved despite it. But since the atheists, and other non believers etc. don't have Yahweh to make us feel guilty and terrified about all the stuff THEY feel guilty and terrified about, it's easy enough for them to point the finger and assume that while we're all equally bleeped in the head, WE (the non-Christians and atheists especially) are the ones with the problem, because we lack the proper "controls". Pure delusion I must say.

In full agreement. Wwell said.

@toneyb:
I do agree that many Christians come to Christ out of fear of damnation in hell, but that is not true for everyone. Some of us are Believers because we love God. And, at my young age, I have already met many VERY MORAL (as well as many really immoral) Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Jews, Ifa Worshippers (I'm not kidding), Christians and a really great guy, a Buddhist; and as such I do not consider people's moral values short-sightedly as a function of their belief-system. What I consider as a function of their belief system is their spiritual status, and that is all.

Speaking for Christianity, when a person gets saved by confessing Christ as Saviour, it's the spirit that gets saved. The mind/ soul is not saved YET, but will be eventually renewed as you walk with God. It's like a baby learning how to walk. As such, it is very possible (and it happens often) to see young Christians who carry over the same immoral values they used to have before Christianity INTO Christianity. at least until they KNOW better.

The truth is that at the end of the day, human beings are all the same, physically and soul-wise. Some people have learnt to control their souls via Yoga, others via various forms of magic, and others by living as a devout Muslim. There is no argument about that. But as for the spirit? In Christianity there is only ONE way to worship (serve, obey, live for) God, and it is in SPIRIT and in TRUTH, as guided by the Holy Spirit.

I hope my point is clear.
Cheers.

mavenbox:


Speaking for Christianity, when a person gets saved by confessing Christ as Saviour, it's the spirit that gets saved. The mind/ soul is not saved YET, but will be eventually renewed as you walk with God.

Before i point out the tragedy of this unfortunate remark, please address it yourself. You're a bright girl, i am sure you see what's wrong with this statement. Go ahead. I am waiting.

In Christianity isn't there a dualism or body and mind/soul?

By the way soul is not the same as spirit if what I learnt in philosophy is true.

I suggest that believers in Atheism should take and manage the day that might be given to the "Flying Sphagetti Monster" believers as the day of their own Holy Day . . . i.e. Holiday.

@DeepSight: Sincerely, I'm just seeing this! I don't follow through with all Nairaland notifications immediately. They're often too many 

mavenbox:
Speaking for Christianity, when a person gets saved by confessing Christ as Saviour, it's the spirit that gets saved. The mind/ soul is not saved YET, but will be eventually renewed as you walk with God.

Deep Sight:

Before i point out the tragedy of this unfortunate remark, please address it yourself. You're a bright girl, i am sure you see what's wrong with this statement. Go ahead. I am waiting.

To clarify before I continue, the spirit and the soul are not the same thing, as michelin89 correctly said:

Heb 4:12  For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.

1Th 5:23  And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you through and through [separate you from profane things, make you pure and wholly consecrated to God]; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved sound and complete [and found] blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah).

The spirit is what communicates with the divine. The soul is what controls the "gates" of the physical realms (5 senses) and the vast human experience, including emotions, logic and imagination, by virtue of those sensations. The body is the visa for the human being to stay on earth until the visa expires.

Man is essentially a spirit. He owns a soul, and he lives in a body.

I do not see the error you are referring to here, DeepSight. I was speaking in reference to these verses:

The "renewal" of the mind is in the present-continuous tense, and it's purpose is to appropriate God's perfect will.

Rom 12:1  I APPEAL to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties] as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.

Rom 12:2  Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].

One can "preserve" the soul by faith and reliance on God through Christ Jesus

Heb 10:39  But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Heb 10:39  But our way is not that of those who draw back to eternal misery (perdition) and are utterly destroyed, but we are of those who believe [who cleave to and trust in and rely on God through Jesus Christ, the Messiah] and by faith preserve the soul.

One can "torture" their own soul by experiencing and/or participating in unholy things.

2Pe 2:8  For that just man, living [there] among them, tortured his righteous soul every day with what he saw and heard of [their] unlawful and wicked deeds--

Before Christ (the last Adam), the human spirit was not active. The spirit was dormant because it is the vital connection to God, and God sought to have that vital connection restored.

Joh 4:23  A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.
Joh 4:24  God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).

So Christ came, and he had the vital connection that enabled life to be restored to the spiritually-dead

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Co 15:45  Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life]. [Gen. 2:7.]

The spirit is saved BY the life-giving Spirit (Christ), but the soul isn't (yet). many people say "I have saved 10 souls" after they have proselytized to 10 new converts. But in truth, they just saved 10 spirits, which is more important.

So how does the soul get saved? By dwelling upon God's Word with a patient disposition to learn (i.e. meekness) and having heard it, doing what it instructs as well. By walking with God.

[size=13pt]Jas 1:21  So get rid of all uncleanness and the rampant outgrowth of wickedness, and in a humble (gentle, modest) spirit receive and welcome the Word which implanted and rooted [in your hearts] contains the power to save your souls. [/size]
Jas 1:22  But be doers of the Word [obey the message], and not merely listeners to it, betraying yourselves [into deception by reasoning contrary to the Truth].
Jas 1:23  For if anyone only listens to the Word without obeying it and being a doer of it, he is like a man who looks carefully at his [own] natural face in a mirror;
Jas 1:24  For he thoughtfully observes himself, and then goes off and promptly forgets what he was like.

And then, on the other hand, it is evident that the soul is what commandeers knowledge, right? The Bible teaches that we can never know in full for now, the way God knows us too; but we grow in our knowledge until the end of time.

Thus unlike the spirit which has obtained a perfect 100% reconnection with God, the soul needs to be continually nurtured by looking into the "mirror" (the Word of God, see Jas 1:21-24 above).

1Co 13:12  For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [by God].

So the spirit gets saved, but the soul needs a constant renewing. Let me finish up with an analogy (yeah, I know I can't really do without them  ). The analogy is a little weak because it places the major emphasis on the body,  rather than the spirit. But it will serve my purpose here. 

Imagine the human being is like a computer system, say, a laptop. It's body is the laptop computer box. It's soul is the operating system installed on it, together with the attendant software packages. It has no internet connection, because the wireless internet access, even though all around it, requires a security key to access the internet. So, it's one of two cases: the laptop may detect the internet connection if it searches for it, but it cannot benefit from it because the access codes in use are wrong (those that have heard the Gospel of Spiritual Salvation but they have not yet received Christ). Or maybe the wireless adapter is even OFF so the internet access is not detected (those that didn't even hear the Gospel at all). When the CORRECT access code (Christ) is supplied, the computer can access the internet (when someone gets born again, there is a rich introduction to the Godhead), and at that time it is possible to update the operating system software from the manufacturer's website, and all vulnerability bugs can be fixed with the available patches (the soul can thus be saved).

But for those laptops without an internet connection, you may install software via the USB port or the Optical drive (CD/DVD-ROM) and you may also contact viruses thereby. When those "ill" laptops get connected to the internet eventually (they get saved), they can update their antivirus databases. Then the user won't need to enquire about the deadliness of the viruses, the viruses will be dealt with by the updates. i.e. when some people come to Christ, they may still have some vices in their souls (sins that they regularly commit and return to ask for forgiveness) but as they keep updating their virus definitions from God, the vices will drop off. As a friend once joked, "Jesus said: I will make you fishers of men. You catch them, I will clean them".

e.g. Peter was guilty of hypocrisy in the early church because in his mind (soul), he was concerned with what people would say. He had to be reprimanded by Paul. That is probably an offshoot of Peter's character before the move of the Spirit: he was always very forward and assuming, he didn't ever want to be caught with his pants down (he feared men with respect to his amount of faith, recall his denial of Christ?)

Gal 2:11  But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I protested and opposed him to his face [concerning his conduct there], for he was blameable and stood condemned.
Gal 2:12  For up to the time that certain persons came from James, he ate his meals with the Gentile [converts]; but when the men [from Jerusalem] arrived, he withdrew and held himself aloof from the Gentiles and [ate] separately for fear of those of the circumcision [party].
Gal 2:13  And the rest of the Jews along with him also concealed their true convictions and acted insincerely, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy (their example of insincerity and pretense).

And what happens when the laptop battery dies or the hardware experiences a terrible unreconciliable fault? The laptop dies, like man's body dies. At that point in time, the records of the soul's (operating system and software's) actions have been logged from the internet service provider, and it is too late to do anything about it. The operating system and the software are judged for their actions with respect to the unique IP address and computer MAC address e.g. a pirated version was used or illegal sites were visited (the soul is judged with respect to the spirit).

Job 7:9  As the cloud is consumed and vanishes away, so he who goes down to Sheol (the place of the dead) shall come up no more.

Thus ends my analogy. I am ready to clarify any yet-unclear points; and also ready to hear what you consider my logical error. 

i  always  wondered, how does it feel to live without hope?

i never knew atheism meant living without hope.   

That is why you see that the issue of suicides is rampant in the West cus . . .the sense of hopelessness and purposelessness becomes so overwhelming that death seems to be the only way out.

aww man live in the west is so hopeless that we are flocking to it and lining up at western embassies begging for Visa.

Look at all the hope in Christ embassy and RCCG that have made Nigeria the power it is today.

bawomolo:

i never knew atheism meant living without hope.

aww man live in the west is so hopeless that we are flocking to it and lining up at western embassies begging for Visa.

Look at all the hope in Christ embassy and RCCG that have made Nigeria the power it is today.

. . . .I bet you that if Nigerians were to trade places most will leave behind their families and come to the "godless" Europe. . .

I am even surprised David said something so ignorant.

With all his obodoyinbo exposure.

@Deepsight: I am still waiting for your response, sir

My Darling Mavenbox -

Many apologies. The Universe is my favourite subject and as you may have noticed i was thoroughly (though frustratingly) engaged in a thread about the demise of the universe elsewhere.

How could i have ignored my one true love for so many hours. I apologize!

Now speedily to business.

The remark i took umbrage at -

Speaking for Christianity, when a person gets saved by confessing Christ as Saviour, it's the spirit that gets saved. The mind/ soul is not saved YET, but will be eventually renewed as you walk with God.

First off: let me say this: i have no problems whatsoever with the concept of spirit, soul and body that you laid out. I feel sometimes so alien within my own skin, that i possess a healthy and lively awareness of the fact that i am an immaterial being. I am also able to draw a distinction between my mind and emotions on the one hand, and the purity of essential spirituality on the other hand.

So no problems there. My problem is with your description of salvation.

Without making reference to the details of your response let me simply set out my thoughts, and perhaps therein you might see why i did not take nicely to your assertion above.

Let me ask you what you understand by the word salvation. And specifically what it entails to attain salvation.

In your perspective, it appears that salvation is attained through belief in Jesus Christ and the sacrifice at Golgotha.

Yet we are both aware that Elijah was supposedly taken up into heaven ever before that "sacrifice" occured. And without espousing any belief or knowledge about that "sacrifice" Same with the principle in the parable of the good samaritan. Same with the thief on the cross at Golgotha. Same with the scripture in Acts 10:34 - 35. Same with various statements of Jesus regarding people who "believe" in him, and many who supposedly knwe him not.

We are both aware that the inner condition required of a human spirit inorder to attain the living light has always remained the same, and never changed. We are both firmly aware that God is the same yesterday, today and forever, being a permanent and perfect primordial entity. We certainly agree that there would be no reason for a perfect being such as the Almighty Uncaused Cause to ever "change" the requirements or criteria for communion with him, and it is my positive conviction that that criteria remains love, love and only love. Love of God, love and wonder at creation, and love of fellow man.

In everything that i read in scripture, i am positively convinced that this is the standard only: and that millions of humans who lived and died without ever knowning of the carpenter from Nazareth called Jesus, still stand firmly in the love of God, and in that very salvation that Jesus preached, on account of their inner disposition and attunement towards love.

In this respect i am at odds with the claims of fanatical and fundamentalist christians (such as Noetic and Davidylan) that persons such as Mahatma Ghandi, who have devoted their entire livies to love of fellow man, and made unspeakable personal sacrifices in their life-long drive to spread peace and human brotherhood, must still stand condemned before God because they did not "accept" Jesus as their personal lord and saviour.

I am of the view that even if such an acceptance of christ is necessary, the definitive mode of "accepting" him - is only through the inculcation of the principle of love. This i believe is open to people of any religion and culture, and if you are interested i can refer you to much scripture even within the New Testament that supports this worldview.

I despise dogma.

Now, apologies for the lengthy opener. I meant only to set the background to that which i saw as wrong within your statement.

You stated that -

when a person gets saved by confessing Christ as Saviour, it's the spirit that gets saved.

First off: as explained above, i do not believe that "confessing" Christ as saviour leads to salvation. And if at all it does, then the mode of confession is not by stating that Jesus is lord, or even by knowing of his existence at all, but by living according to the principle of love that he taught: whether or not one ever knows or acknowledges Jesus of Nazareth the man.

Secondly - and this is the core of my problem with your statement -

  1. What is salvation?

  2. What does it mean to be saved?

  3. Why is it the case that after the "acceptance" of christ, sin continues?

  4. Is the above persistence of sin not clear evidence that the "acceptance" of christ as saviour is meaningless?

  5. Cardinally; what distinguishes between the pre-acceptance state of the spirit and the post-acceptance state of the spirit?

I am of the view that there is only one thing that could menaingfully distingusih between either state. And that is perhaps the inculcation of the principle of love, and nothing else. Thus rendering any "confession" both unnecessary and spiritually meaningless.

Now it is apparent that the inculcation of this principle is something that permeates spirit, mind, soul and body. It is a living thing, the entire disposition of the collective man, such that your distinction between a salvation of a spirit that continues in sin through the soul, mind and body, appears preposterous to me. For i do not mean to suggest that any man should be perfect, but that the permeating love which a good person has is something that sinks through all fibres of his being, and renders him favoured in the sight of God.

In this your very own words show my case -

The mind/ soul is not saved YET, but will be eventually renewed as you walk with God[/

Thus indicating that renewal comes through walking with God - through love - and regardless of any confession! In other words the "salvation by confession" that you talked about, you yourself have admitted to be useless unless one is able to walk with God! So what kind of salvation is that? Is it not clear from your very own words that the confession is meaningless and that "walking with God" is the real thing to strive for! Get my gist now?

Thus the idea that your "spirit" is saved by a mere "confession" (which any slowpoke can muster) is certainly in my mind dogmatic and reeks of a slavish adherence to an external ritualistic myth. I cannot see that such a "salvation" should take place, and the human being should, to be "saved" (again?) continue in the path of seeking the light: which has always been the true path: namely the path of seeking love. Particularly to make myself clear: i can see that the state of the man pre-confession and the state of the man post-confession are nothing; and spiritually meaningless compared to the state of a man pre-love, and the state of a man post-love; and this latter state has nothing at all to do with knowing the man Jesus, and remains open to people of every race, religion and culture.

Nuff. If you are interested in scripture that supports this worldview, i will oblige.

@DeepSight: Interesting views you have here. I will have to return to post my answer, probably by updating this post, cos it may be a really long post. Thanks!

Well, after salvation comes sanctification which is a process which starts with the new convert purposefully separating his or her life from former carnal ways.
In order to maintain the salvation a period of sanctification is necessary.

OLAADEGBU:

Merry Christmas to our Christian friends, happy Hanukkah to our Jewish friends, and to our atheist friends, good luck.

It is alright to wish your atheist friends Merry Christmas and a happy new year. Christmas is a universal Holiday (except in some Muslim countries) and  people have been celebrating the 24th and 25th of December before Christianity. Also the new year is universal.

We (your atheist friends) also wish you a Merry Christmas (tone down a bit on the merriment though) and a very happy new year.

Wwirinet, why did you take off from the thread on the dialectics of spirituality where it was conclusively shown that you believe in the existence of non-physical things - but contradictorily slam others for believing in spirituality?

@DeepSight: You are not forgotten. I am trying to relate my views concerning your post to you in a way that will afford great understanding without reckless verbosity. I have some free time now, so you will get it in a short while. Cheers.

patiently waiting. . . i'm a good patient dog. . .

@DeepSight: LOL. Funny picture. That we may not derail the thread in our conversation, I created a new thread on the rudiments of salvation. Please meet me there.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-365895.0.html

P.S> Sorry for taking time, I dislike typing 'cos I'm rather slow at it and since I like making myself very clear, I tend to type long posts. LOL.