Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? - Religion - Nairaland
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| Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Joagbaje(m): 11:49am On Jan 22, 2010 |
A pastor is a man that forsook everything to answer the call of God, Some resigned from great positions turned their back on offers and opportunities so as to answer Gods calling. They changed men lives for the better , heal the sick cast out devils and brought the best out of people by the teaching of Gods word , He labours in prayers and intercession for the members and others. Several attacks have come against them in the execution of their priestly ministry. especially in the area of finances. Tithes Offerings, Prophetic Seeds etc. firstly the church money does not belong to the pastor, He has his salary or allowance and also he receive other gift of appreciation from those who have been blessed by him. Galatians 6:6-7 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. [7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 1 Tim. 5:17-18 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. [18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. When a pastor ask people to give , Is it not for their own prosperity? We receive by giving as Jesus taught us Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. That's why a pastor is anointed.His anointing cause people to be blessed by giving through him or to him. Numbers 18:8 And the Lord spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever. [color=#990000[b]]Philip. 4:15-19 [/b] Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. [16] For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. [17] [color=#000099]Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.[/color] [18] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. [19] But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. [/color] 2 Cor. 6:10 , "as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things. Jesus received money from people.How was he able to take care of12 men and their family, chatter boats etc Luke 8:2-3 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, [3] And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance. Our pastors can't do the work of God well without the funds. Jesus was criticised also for receiving money from people. [b]John 7:12([/b]Living Bible) There was alot of discussion about, Some said "he's a wonderful man" while others said, No, he's duping the public I am not aware any pastor will force anybody to give.They only teach us the word of God. we have the choice to obey or not. SO IS IT REALLY RIGHT TO CALL THE MEN OF GOD THIEVES? |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Tudor6(f): 11:54am On Jan 22, 2010 |
Do pastors have two heads? |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Annunaki(m): 12:00pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
Mr agbaje, the bible calls some of them "frauds" in jeremiah 8:10, which is similar to calling someone a thief. I asked you a question on the other thread b4 you scampered off. Kindly go and address the issues raised there. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by PastorAIO: 12:01pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
Joagbaje: This is a very simple question and it's answer depends on one thing and one thing only. Has the said Pastor stolen anything, Is the said pastor in the habit of misappropriating what doesn't belong to him? If the answer is yes then the pastor is a thief, if no then he isn't. This is the way we do it with everyone else. But I get the dangerous idea that you are trying to tout here. That simply because someone is a pastor we should not evaluate whether they are thieves or not the way we do with everyone else. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by rotimy(m): 12:04pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
I don't really think the pastors forsook everything to answer God's call! Are they Catholic Priests? Anyway, a man that is call coconut head and he is protesting, must be very sure that his head is not like a coconut! |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by aletheia(m): 12:19pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: Exactly. . .Mr Joagbaje, I think worships his pastor rather than look to Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Joagbaje(m): 12:23pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
Annunaki: Jeremiah 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely. This does not refer to pastors of Churches. but Old testament priest |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by aletheia(m): 12:30pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
Joagbaje: 1 Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one. 2 Pe 2:1-3 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Annunaki(m): 12:37pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
@agbaje Likewise tithes and first fruit is for old testament levites and not pastors. I guess they are just picking and choosing what favours them in the old testament. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Azibalua(f): 1:01pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
aletheia: pastors have been given to us by god for our edification and perfection, they are ordained to nurture our lives, of course the church finance does not belong to the pastor as well as to any other member of the church, pastors live by their own faith as well. but then how can we preach the gospel we have without money anyone who sugests that is just a hypocrite, in this day and age one sure way of ensuring the gospel reaches the ends of the earth is thru the media and this costs mega bucks not chicken change, you cannot buy airtime with a piece of paper ,you do it with hard currency jeremiah 3:15 says and i will give you pastors according to my heart which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. thus a pastor is anointed to teach the members to prosper and one sure way of doing that is thru giving, a pastor who askes his members to give is surely right and not a fraud he is only causing them to work in laws of prosperity, giving is a principle of the scriptures that cannot be overlooked. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Joagbaje(m): 1:13pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
aletheia: So did he say they are church pastors ? Did Paul say you should call every church pastor thieves for recieving money? . Is it unscriptural for them to receive Besides Paul is talking about apostates here. who will deny the lordship of jesus Christ. Does it mean If a pastor teach on giving, he has enter error? . |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Azibalua(f): 1:14pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
Annunaki: pls go back and study your scriptures properly was melchisedec a levite bible states that abraham paid tithes to melchisedec and levites paid tithes in abraham so how come melchisedec collected tithes. heb 7:9 -10 |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Nobody: 1:46pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
@poster I think the question should have been Is it right to label crooks as pastors It is an open secret that more than 70 % of people who call themselvs pastors are armed robbers in suits. pls go back and study your scriptures properly mister waht is melchizedek that asked abraham to pay tithes to him? How many times did Abraham pay tithes to melchizeek ? Is there any instruction for the melchizedek tithe be continued ? Any body can pay any money to anyone but it must be done out of one's own free will . |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Zikkyy(m): 1:52pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
Joagbaje: What if he called himself? chukwudi44: Seconded. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by mabell: 2:28pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
Joagbaje:@joagbaje the anointing upon a pastor is not for himself but to minister to others. my giving of any sort be it tithing, seed offerrings and firstfruits is God's system of protection for me Annunaki:@Annunaki the scriptures states in ezekiel 44:30 that " and the first of all the firstfruits of all things, and every oblation of all, of every sort of your oblations, shall be the priests: ye shall also give to the priests the first of your dough, that he may cause the blessing to rest in thine house 31 the priests shall not eat of any thing that is dead of itself, or torn wether it be fowl or beast" firstfruits are freewill offerings given to the prophets( 2nd kings 4:42) so i think whether old testament or new testament, as far as it is befitting and of a great blessing to me i choose this part. let them choose, its not a problem but they have taught us this truth and and it has expanded my visions about giving. i give unconditionally, i have great results and testimonies in all i do |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Nobody: 2:41pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
@mabell was it only tithes and first fruits the only jewish rite practised in the OT,how come no one is talking about the non-lucrative portions of the jewish law like the compulsory celebration of the three important jewish feasts of shelters,unleavened bread or passover ? what about the rules about women menstruating. Complying with one portion of the jewish law while neglecting the other might attract the curse stated in Gal 3;10 The NT scripture were explicit ,that the jewish laws (both lucrative and unlucrative) have been abolished. The council of jerusalem in acts 15 was convoked just to tackle this issue,it came out wit a resolution.That the jewis laws are no longer applicable under christianity. Ant pastor who directs his members to give all part of his salary in the name of first fruits is simply heartless and worse than armed robbers. Honestly I can't beleive that people that call themselves christians could be so heartless |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by afiq(m): 3:10pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
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| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by KunleOshob(m): 4:28pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
Joagbaje: I am yet to see any pastor that forsook everything thing as you wrongly assert above. That apart pastoring as now become one of the most lucrative and easy professions in Nigeria and all it's take to get called especially in the pentecostal fold is to just wake up one day and claim God has "called" you. Besides nobody has said all pastors are crooks, but any pastor who willfully twists the word of God for the benefit of his personal greed is most definitely a crook. This categorizes all pastors who preach tithes, first fruits and seed sowing as big time crooks. Infact this would mean all pastors in the pentecostal business are crooks since they all preach one or more of these heresies. There are several warnings in the bible against false teachers and prophets who would use the gospel to make money from us and they were described as "wolves in sheep's clothing", Frauds, hypocrites and "destined for destruction" so if the bible already condenms them we are perfectly in order to describe them as crooks. That apart we owe it a duty to our true christian brethen to tell them the antics of these wolves in sheeps clothing cos they are very hard to detect. Most of them are really smooth talking and sweet mouthed like a$$himolowo and that bleached crook called oyakhilome so we have to continually warn christians against them less they destroy more lives. The bible even says that even the God's chosen ones, the very elect would almost be deceived by these criminals how much less the average Nigerian christian who doesn't study his bible and falls for such glaring scams like tithing due to lack of knowledge. Bros i would continue to call a crook a crook as long as the person in question shows the fruits of a crook be it pastor, bishop, G.O or whatever. a crook is a crook.  |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by PastorAIO: 4:41pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
A penterascal pastor is a man who forsook his career having graduated to find the job market a rough place. Forsaking what was quite possibly his God given mission in life he decides to become no better than a bandit robbing poor impressionable christians. Azibalua: Please, what happened to the tithe that Abraham gave to Melchisedek? Did he and his men not eat it there with Melchisedek? |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by newmi(m): 11:10pm On Jan 22, 2010 |
First, its amazing how people fail to recognize how that the church is not their family business, her ideals are not subject to their personal opinions rather on the guidelines enshrined within the pages of her Holy book (the Bible). The institution of the church as it were is spiritual and consequently runs on the dictates of core spiritual principles. why every so often the issue of money is raised with the church in view, people majority of whom are ignoramus and blantant enviable novices are quick to seize the opportunity to raise dust of fawl views. the office of the pastor in the body of christ is one great responsibility of immeasurable trust, its a CALLING, now l don't expect every tom, dick and harry to understand that anyway but its one of the ministry gifts spoken of in Ephesians 4:11-13 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, PASTORS and teachers, " and then interestingly, the verses following after clearly reveals to us the purpose of these gifts; ", for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of christ(the church), " one famous writter once said that people frawn at what they are ignorant of and they critize what they don't understand and issues that borders on the existence of the church is no different. why assume a responsibility God hasn't given you, its not in the trust of any man to judge a said "man of God" or pastor a crook, No! didn't you hear that its a calling, explicitly implying that theres a caller which in this case is God as it were? how then can you label a "man God" a crook, no you don't give a man a name that God has not given him. this verse of scripture might be of immense interest to those who sympathetically are less spiritually inclined -Romans 14:4 Question"Who art thou that judges another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: fro God is able to make him stand" (KJV) but lets view it from another newer translation- " Who are you to condemn Gods' servant? They are responsible to the Lord, so let Him tell them whether they are right or wrong. The Lords power will help them do as they should" (TNLT) finally for now, its a calling, IF NO BE YOU CALL AM THEN SHORT UPYOUR MOUTH AND WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING (philippians 2:12), well thats if you understand what a calling is at all. tanx |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by PastorAIO: 1:29am On Jan 23, 2010 |
newmi: Apart from the fact that I didn't understand the greater part of what you said above, possibly due to the fact that it is just incoherent gibberish, I disagree with what seems to be the conclusion that we should just let them be. It reminds me of what people used to say about thieving in nigeria. If you catch a thief out and try to raise a fuss, the thief can ask you if the goods are your own. "Na you get am"? and if not, then you should just mind your own business. I'm sorry but that is not how civilised society works. That is not how the church body should work. We are our brother's and sister's keepers and as such we should speak up when they are being deceived and robbed. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Joagbaje(m): 10:56am On Jan 23, 2010 |
KunleOshob: Has God made you a monitor to determin who and who is called.You that doesnt go to any church. KunleOshob: KunleOshob: Be contradicting yourself . That means Jesus was a crook too. and Paul was crook Matthew 22:21 Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. Galatians 6:6-7 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. [7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. The bible is clear on tithes and offering. We do it as honour to God. If you eat your own offering and tithe , it is not a reason to labell pastors as crooks. You are the crook being used of satan to rob men of thier blessing by holding back what is for God. Proverbs 20:25 It is a snare to the man who devoureth that which is holy, and after vows to make enquiry. Proverbs 3:9 Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: KunleOshob: KunleOshob: What else can one expect from a spiritual vagabond who has no Pastor over him. Insulting men of God is one of the signs of antichrist. Exodus 22:28 Thou shalt not revile God, nor curse the ruler of thy people. 2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Jude 1:8-10 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by PastorAIO: 11:18am On Jan 23, 2010 |
Actually, saying all 'pastors' in the pentecostal business are crooks and saying that not all pastors are crooks are not contradictory statements. Not every pastor is in the Pentecostal business. I have seen no one on this thread insult a man of God yet. I've seen crooks being called crooks. Please can you, Agbaje, write out for us a list of the MOGs that you think have been insulted. Thank you. ps. Did you become a 'christian' because you thought it would be more lucrative than becoming an Imam? |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Joagbaje(m): 1:21pm On Jan 23, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: How funny? no man of God was insulted , Yet you call them crooks. So the Ones you guys call crooks are Ahajis?. So who do you recomend for us as a man of God. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by PastorAIO: 1:43pm On Jan 23, 2010 |
Joagbaje: Please let me repeat my request, as you seem to have missed it. As I haven't seen any man of God insulted on this thread, in my humble opinion, I'll need you to clarify by drawing up a list of the men of God that you claim have been insulted on this thread. I don't know what the guys who have been called crooks are other than crooks. Perhaps they are alhajis, perhaps not. By the way sir, are you an alhaji yourself. Have you been to mecca? Perhaps you no longer use the title but were you once an alhaji. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by SamMilla1(m): 2:16pm On Jan 23, 2010 |
if pastor steals money that belongs to the Church. He is a crook |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by inedi: 2:18pm On Jan 23, 2010 |
@pastor AIO and KunleOshob this same pastors you label as crooks and armed robbers in suits are the same ones who bless lives and change destinies i for one am an example my pastor has made me who i am today right now i am financially independent, i don't ask my parents for money but rather i think of how to bless them and what to give them i was taught how to tithe by my pastor, give to God and to men, pay offerings and give seeds to meet needs now i'm affecting the world from a stand point. my money has gotten to the nations of the earth but ive noticed that at every point in time when my giving stops or my tithing stops or decreases, my finances are affected seriously. so what do i do then, I LISTEN TO MY PASTOR  |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by hubpages(f): 2:19pm On Jan 23, 2010 |
we are not here to judge, leave everything to God |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by otokx(m): 2:22pm On Jan 23, 2010 |
Pastor is an occupation and church is a business. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by Skidoc(m): 2:48pm On Jan 23, 2010 |
99.9% of Pastors are crooks. Especially the Nigerians and Americans.  1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by PastorAIO: 2:53pm On Jan 23, 2010 |
inedi: Well good for you! Could you perhaps furnish us with some details as to how your finances improved when you paid your tithes, and more importantly why your tithing stopped or decreased and the details of the serious effect it had on your finances? This testimony will go some way to convincing me that I've been on the wrong track for, as you can probably tell, I think the prosperity gospel is a load of Satanic hogwash. |
| Re: Is It Proper To Label Pastors As Crooks? by hbrednic: 3:01pm On Jan 23, 2010 |
Skidoc:pastors all over are crooks,there is no exception to that. 1 Like 1 Share |
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