@Pligrim.1: I am going to respond to you this last time. I will overlook your arrogance, as youth exuberance, of your over zelousness and convinction of the new religion you are in. First, since am old enough to be your father and have two sons in your age range, I only take you as my child, eager to show of her knowledge. I have indeed, been there and behaved, almost exactly like you.

What I have experienced with you though, is that you argue your point, always not addressing the core issue: This is to say that when you wre confronted with the same verse of the Holy Qur'an, Suratul Mariam, which you have tried to use to buttress your point about Jesus son of Mary, you semed to have refused to address my point. If you believe that whole verse, then you must be able to agree that Jesus's death, according to the Bible was a peaceful death. It is very obvious, from the Qur'an, where Jesus' death is to be peaceful that Jesus has not died. Hence if he has not died how can he be ressurected?

As to the issue of spirit and the concern of it about Muhammad (AS), I will like to direct you, first to the Holy Bible, the New International version. My darling, as i went to research this subject matter, I can not but wonder how many version are available, of the word of God which is the Bible! Yet God Almighty is One and gave this Book in one original form and human being have bastardised it to uncountable versions, each claining to be 100% correct and pure. Wow. And when I say wow, there is no yelling here.

1) Jeremiah 23: 16- This is what the Lord Almighty says; Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak vision from their own minds, not from the Mouth of the LORD.

Here we find that false prophets speak not the words from God or as also mean that these false prophets will say things which will be contrary to what true prophet said. I will not tell you the name of anyone who have cancelled the laws of any prophet yet. I will tell you that name and which prophet's laws later. Bear with me a while longer. I mean be patient.

In view of the above, we read in the Qur'an that all the 114 chapters, except Taubaa (9), begin with Bismillahir rRahmanir rRahiim! So Muhammad who received this book spoke only by the name of God! In Surah Al Naml, the Ants, Sulaiman (AS), said Bismillahir rRahmanir rRahiim, within the text of that Surah. So in reality, there is at least 114 Bismillah in the Qur'an. This will clearly show that Muhammad is not one of the false prophets as described in thw verse of jeremiah above.

Ezekiel 13 verse 9; My hand will be against the prphets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the record of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I aaam the Sovereign LORD; Allah say of Muhammad and addressed him as rassulullah.



2 Peter ;21 (False teachers and their destruction); But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Sovereign Lord Who brought them; bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Luke 6:26; Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets; You will see that not all persons speak well of Muhammad, eg you and people like you (My dear, am very direct and am not attacking you. This is the fact on ground).


1 John 4:1; (Test of the spirit) Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirit to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

We can see that spirit are used here interchangeably instead of prophet. If we agree with the above, then we know that prophet is a spirit. We consider this because, John spoke about it and John got his instruction, directly from Jesus, while jesus from ALIVE>

Now as to the one who was mentioned in jeremiah 23:16, please consider the issue of the one who abrogated the Laws of Moses, when jesus your savior himself did not abrogate it!

I have nothing else to say. My time is very expensive.

@olabowale,

I'm perfectly okay and normal; and only people in their abnormality would listen to the horsecrap coming from Muslims which they pretend as "truth".

I have asked only two questions - if you can't answer them both, at least proffer answer to just one:

#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?

#2. Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?

Like I said before, you won't interest me with anything further until you guys rest your duplicity and face the truth. The games of making long complaints and never seeking to directly address core issues is OVER! Every single time you guys have tried to spew out your questions, I have tried to take the time to provide answers, seek to post the evidence for my answers from the BIBLE, the QUR'An, and the HADITHS. What you come back doing is to ask the same silly questions without with "oya answer me and more will follow". What sort of illiterate exchange is that?

No dramas - please seek to simply and honestly answer those questions above before I woul even glance in your direction.

Cheers.

After having entertained you guys with your inconsistencies, here again is a reminder:

pilgrim.1:


#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?

#2. Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?

Please deal with them before you can interest me with anything further.

Thank you.

@pilgrim

You try avoiding my questions but you have to answer them. I brought them here since you are fond of doing that. So please answer these questions:



1. Can holy spirit be another like Jesus?

2. What is the meaning of 'another' being used there?

3.If you are saying the verse is for holy spirit, please has the holy spirit not been in existence since creation. So how come another holy spirit and how many holy spirits will we be having since one is already in existence?

4. Please what new things has the holy spirit been telling YOU aside Jesus'

5. Does holy spirit speak or inspire and if you are saying it speaks, can you tell me what it has been telling you apart from what Jesus did and provide me verses where it speaks



Bros. Olabowale told you that Jesus never read the bible and you provided verse where he read book of Elias, please:

1. Can you show me in the bible where he read same?

2. Since you claimed that he read book of Elias, is that book the bible you claimed he read?

3. Was he given the bible from matthew to revelation or 'gospel".

4. If indeed he read the book of Elias, it should have been part of the bible and if not, it means the bible is incomplete, please where in the bible do we have the book of Elias.



Let me attend to part of confusion christians are facing

#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?

Allah never referred to Muhammad as spirit but please with regards to the context of the verses, did the verse make any reference to Holy spirit?

I will still explain to you maybe God wil touch your heart, we know that the Holy spirit has been in existence since creation and for you to have said the comforter would be the holy spirit is blasphemy and we would be having more than one holy spirit.

Also, Jesus made a very plain statement that he had to go so that the comforter would come, this shows that the verse can never be holy spirit because even the holy spirit was with him while mentioning that statement.

Jesus also said that the the comforter would be another one.Please can holy spirit be 'another' comforter when Jesus was not same. Jesus here was referrign to Human spirit hence the coming of another comforter and the 'another' would be like him. So in what way would the holy spirit be another comforter.

Jesus even said that he would guide you into all truths and speak. Please do the holy sirit or inspire because there is difference between speaking and inspiring?

#2. Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?

You are getting yourself confused. Here you come again, the verse didnt say 'existing since creation' but used that to knock you off that it referred to holy spirit. Since you said that the verse referred to Holy spirit and we learnt that it has been in existence since creation, so another comforter coming after Jesus couldnt have been the holy spirit because it has been and still in existence. The comforter to come would be like Jesus and holy spirit doesnt fit into that.

@babs787,

babs787:

You try avoiding my questions but you have to answer them. I brought them here since you are fond of doing that. So please answer these questions

Your questions are inconsequential as far as I've addressed every single claim you had posted previously to deflect from your assertive denial.

You had claimed that John 14:16 was referring to none other than Muhammad, and I showed you that the same verse in context was referring to the Holy Spirit. I've shown in previous posts that when the Bible speaks of THE SPIRIT, it is none other than the Holy Spirit Himself.

After having layed out the foundation for identifying the Holy Spirit as the very same of whom Jesus spoke when He mentioned the Comforter, my simple question has always been:

#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?

If you can't attend to that basc question, don't litter this thread with your illiterate posts. I've said that until you and olabowale stop this game and address that questuion, you don't interest me in the least with your duplicity.

If you can simply show me where in the Qur'an Allah called Muhammad the same thing as "THE SPIRIT", then we can move on - and then I will come back and answer every single question you have reposted here.

Regards.

@babs787,

babs787:

Allah never referred to Muhammad as spirit but please with regards to the context of the verses, did the verse make any reference to Holy spirit?

The reason why I won't bother entertaining your pretentious gimmicks is because you have characteristically been playing this hideous Islamic game of not reading or paying attention to the rejoinders I already made. You have repeated that question many times, and as many times you have pretended to not see that I have addressed it again and again and then repeat the question as if you didn't see where I addressed it.

That is why I've decided to rubbish any posts you guys make here until you grow up and start reasoning amicably on the Forum. If you keep ignoring and jumping posts, you will find me posting the same thing and ignoring your bloviates. This silly game of "oya answer me and more will follow" is crass - and it is about time you should know. Ignore my rejoinders, and you immediately make yours less than tissue.

I spare you just this once: Babs, I have addressed that question MANY TIMES already - and I will post it again just this once! Come back and pretend to not see it - and I'll spare you nothing in showing just how dubious you are!

Here again:

---

Like I said, I have already dealt with that concern - and you have asked that same question several times, which should convince any casual observer that you simply are NOT interested in engaging reasonably in a discussion at all. If you are actually interested in discussing, surely Babs, there is no way you could have missed where I REMINDED you that I have dealt with that part of your complaints ALREADY!!!

Here is the link:

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-84252.192.html#msg1627282)

And before you come back complaining yet again in pretence of not having seen it, let me REPOST it even HERE again O!


Your problem has been that just because in some verses you did not find "Holy" preceding "Spirit", you assume therefore that Jesus must have been speaking in reference to a human being ("spirit". Even when others have demonstrated that the descriptions could not be in reference to any prophet, you're systematically twisting and spinning your assumptions just so that you could try to dribble John's Gospel back to the Qur'an to point to Muhammad! You do well.

In John's Gospel as well the other Gospels, the Holy Spirit is spoken of simply as "THE Spirit". In such instances, even when you do not find the prefix "Holy", it nonetheless is clear in those references that the Holy Spirit is meant. A few of those verses:

John 1:32
"And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending
from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him."
(cf. Matt. 3:16 - "he saw the Spirit of God descending
like a dove, and lighting upon him"

John 1:33
"And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water,
the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit
descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which
baptizeth with the Holy Ghost"

Matt. 4:1
"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be
tempted of the devil."

Luke 4:1 & 14
"And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan,
and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness. . .And Jesus
returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went
out a fame of him through all the region round about."

John 3:5 & 34
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. . . For
he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God:
for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him."

John 15:26
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you
from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth
from the Father, he shall testify of ME"

The reason why I gave you a good number of verses to verify for yourself is just to show you that the Holy Spirit is also simply called "the Spirit" - and in all the instances where it is used in reference to Him, no objective reader could ever miss the fact that such verses point to the Holy Spirit.

---

That is it! And I hope you will calm down and behave - or simply swallow your duplicity and rest your case!

Shallom.

After having entertained you guys with your inconsistencies, here again is a reminder:

pilgrim.1:


#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?

#2. Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?

Please deal with them before you can interest me with anything further.

Thank you.

What? there is no mention of mohammed in The Holy Bible. John 14: 16-15 refers to the Holy Spirit. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2014:16-17

Anybody who claims that the Biblical passage is referring to mohammed is a LIAR!

Ndipe:

What? there is no mention of mohammed in The Holy Bible. John 14: 16-15 refers to the Holy Spirit. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2014:16-17

Anybody who claims that the Biblical passage is referring to mohammed is a LIAR!

In that case, there are more liars than we realized who indeed have made that claim. And that was why I decided to bring them here and show them the mirror so they could show their lying faces for self-assessment.

May God help them.

The condition of Muhammad (AS), is never in doubt: None of his folks. father and mother, wife, when it was Khadijatul Kubra alone or the ones who he married or his children, etc, not a single one was addresssed by name in the Qur'an. Muhammad said that his lineage all the way from Adam to him, there was no single adultery in it. As much as the Makkans hated him for his mission, there was no one of him who maligned his bloodline. No wonder it was not an issue and the Qur'an has no need to address anything.

Muhammad from the Qur'an, we will find where Allah, his Creator and his Cherisher attached Muhammad's name to His own name; In SuratuL Taubah, Chapter 9, verse 129, the second to the last verse, Muhammad was raufun rahiim. Allah's quality is Rauf, Rahiim.

In other places, he was simply called the messenger and in others as mercy to alamiin. Yet in others, he was called the best example and was told that he was raised to the highest esteem of character, etc. Whoever need to know more or really under the above need to pick up the only Qur'an and read and seek true knowledge. Islam does not come cheap and it is not a feel good religion. So is Paradise.

In many verses of the Qur'an, we find that Ruuh and Ruuh Kudus, are other names malaika Jibril (AS). It is Jibril that Allah Almighty sent to aide  everyone of His prophets and Mesengers. Our beloved Muhammad, Isa bin Mariam, Musa bin Imran, Ibrahiim and Nuuh (AS, jamiah), are just few of them.

It is no wonder that Jibril was sent by Allah to convey the good news of a future birth of Isa bin Mariam to Mariam. Jibril told Mariam that all things are possible for ALLAH. And when Allah decrees a thing, He but say to it, BE and it is!

So the big argument about spirit and if Muhammad was ever called a spirit is meaningless. All of the children of Adam were in the spirit form (SOUL), before we were born. One will read from the Qur'an that Allah remove the souls of the children of Adam, from Adam, after Adam was created.

Allah asked the congregation of the souls of the children of Adam if He is not their Lord. They all stated in testimony that He is their Lord. In response, Allah Almighty said that He took this covenant from them, lest that they say that they did not bear witness to HIS LORDSHIP, before they were created by fusing the Body and soul together in the earthly Human d form.

To learn more about this, one needs to read about the hadith concerning Adam's creation and the removal of the souls of his children from his body.

So the man in spiritual form, as a soul was before Ibrahiim came as a human in the old civilation of the city of Ur.


tHE QUESTION WE SHOULD BE ASKING REALLY IS THAT, IS gOD aLMIGHTY cREATOR ALONE, AT ANYTIME BEFORE jESUS? iF NOT THEN THE NEXT QUESTION IS TO SAY WAS jESUS EVER ALONE BEFORE gOD? iF THIS QUESTION BEGS THE ANSWER, WE SHOULD THEN ASK, WHO CREATED WHO, BETWEEN THE aLMIGHTY cREATOR AND jESUS SON OF MARY. wHO HAS POWER OVER ALL THINGS, BETWEEN THE TWO? i KNOW MY ANSWER AND AM NEVER DELUDED BY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS CONVICTION.

olabowale:

tHE QUESTION WE SHOULD BE ASKING REALLY IS THAT, IS gOD aLMIGHTY cREATOR ALONE, AT ANYTIME BEFORE jESUS?

Rubbish! That is not the question we should be asking now and here. A smart move, but not smart to cut it!!

Muslims brazenly have alleged that John 14:16 was referring to none other than Muhammad. I walked you guys through the FACT that in context it could not be so. My one question has been this:

#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?

That is the question - and that is the topic of this thread - and that is why I invited and drew you guys here! John 14:16 is NOT referring to "God Almight as Creator" - that is not how to read the Bible, olabowale. Open the Bible and read John 14:16-17 again, and address the question above!!

Don't play those hideous gimmicks with me - if they didn't tell you before, please know it now: such antics have never worked on pilgrim.1!!

Deal with the question - and then I will be interested in anything further you might have as a genuine concern.

Cherio.

@pilgrims

Your questions are inconsequential as far as I've addressed every single claim you had posted previously to deflect from your assertive denial.

You havent told me how the verses referred to holy spirit. Has holy spirit not been in creation and please does holy spirit speak or inspire?


Y

ou had claimed that John 14:16 was referring to none other than Muhammad, and I showed you that the same verse in context was referring to the Holy Spirit. I've shown in previous posts that when the Bible speaks of THE SPIRIT, it is none other than the Holy Spirit Himself.

Now let me break it down for you:

1. Can the holy spirit replaces 'another' human comforter?

2. for saying that it refers to holy spirit, please has holy spirit not been in existence.

3. How many holy spirit will we be having since one is in existence and another is coming (according to christians)

4. Does holy spirit speak or inspire

5. The verse said holy spirit will tell you many things, please what things has it been telling you apart from what Jesus did?

After having layed out the foundation for identifying the Holy Spirit as the very same of whom Jesus spoke when He mentioned the Comforter, my simple question has always been:

Then you need to remove the covering from your eyes and go through where I provided answer to your question

#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?

If you can't attend to that basc question, don't litter this thread with your illiterate posts. I've said that until you and olabowale stop this game and address that questuion, you don't interest me in the least with your duplicity.

If you can simply show me where in the Qur'an Allah called Muhammad the same thing as "THE SPIRIT", then we can move on - and then I will come back and answer every single question you have reposted here.

Regards.

You may go to this link to read the response

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.32.html

@pilgrim



Like

I said, I have already dealt with that concern - and you have asked that same question several times, which should convince any casual observer that you simply are NOT interested in engaging reasonably in a discussion at all. If you are actually interested in discussing, surely Babs, there is no way you could have missed where I REMINDED you that I have dealt with that part of your complaints ALREADY!!!

Ok

Here is the link:

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-84252.192.html#msg1627282)

I have been there and check it up for my response to same

And before you come back complaining yet again in pretence of not having seen it, let me REPOST it even HERE again O!

Thanks for re-posting

Your problem has been that just because in some verses you did not find "Holy" preceding "Spirit", you assume therefore that Jesus must have been speaking in reference to a human being ("spirit". Even when others have demonstrated that the descriptions could not be in reference to any prophet, you're systematically twisting and spinning your assumptions just so that you could try to dribble John's Gospel back to the Qur'an to point to Muhammad! You do well.

You are the one twisting assumptions. I asked very straight forward questions:

1. Since you claimed that it referred to Holy spirit, has it not been in existence?

2. Can holy spirit replaces human spirit?

3. What is the position of 'another' in that context?

In John's Gospel as well the other Gospels, the Holy Spirit is spoken of simply as "THE Spirit". In such instances, even when you do not find the prefix "Holy", it nonetheless is clear in those references that the Holy Spirit is meant. A few of those verses:

Thanks but you are shooting yourself in the leg small small

John 1:32
"And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending
from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him."
(cf. Matt. 3:16 - "he saw the Spirit of God descending
like a dove, and lighting upon him"

The above showed that the spirit is already in existence and 'another' used there cant be for holy spirit. If you are saying another holy spirit, please how many will we be having?

John 1:33
"And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water,
the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit
descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which
baptizeth with the Holy Ghost"

Good, you are still buttressing my claim that the verse never meant holy spirit because the above showed that the holy spirit has been in existence even during Jesus' time. So how come another used would be holy spirit when it is already in existence?

Matt. 4:1
"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be
tempted of the devil."

Same as above, the spirit already in existence cannot be the 'another comforter" being expected.

Luke 4:1 & 14
"And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan,
and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness. . .And Jesus
returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went
out a fame of him through all the region round about."

Same explanation


Jo

hn 3:5 & 34
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. . . For
he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God:
for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him."

Same as above

John 15:26
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you
from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth
from the Father, he shall testify of ME"

1. Since you claimed that it referred to Holy spirit, has it not been in existence?

2. Can holy spirit replaces human spirit?

3. What is the position of 'another' in that context?


The reason why I gave you a good number of verses to verify for yourself is just to show you that the Holy Spirit is also simply called "the Spirit" - and in all the instances where it is used in reference to Him, no objective reader could ever miss the fact that such verses point to the Holy Spirit.

You really shoot yourself in the leg because the verse supplied made us known that the holy spirit has been in existence and we cannot be expecting another. Can holy spirit replaces human spirit?
Does holy spirit speak or inspire?

Thanks

babs787:

@pilgrim



Like

Ok


I have been there and check it up for my response to same




Thanks for re-posting




You are the one twisting assumptions. I asked very straight forward questions:

1. Since you claimed that it referred to Holy spirit, has it not been in existence?

2. Can holy spirit replaces human spirit?

3. What is the position of 'another' in that context?



Thanks but you are shooting yourself in the leg small small



The above showed that the spirit is already in existence and 'another' used there can't be for holy spirit. If you are saying another holy spirit, please how many will we be having?




Good, you are still buttressing my claim that the verse never meant holy spirit because the above showed that the holy spirit has been in existence even during Jesus' time. So how come another used would be holy spirit when it is already in existence?




Same as above, the spirit already in existence cannot be the 'another comforter" being expected.





Same explanation


Jo
Same as above



1. Since you claimed that it referred to Holy spirit, has it not been in existence?

2. Can holy spirit replaces human spirit?

3. What is the position of 'another' in that context?


The reason why I gave you a good number of verses to verify for yourself is just to show you that the Holy Spirit is also simply called "the Spirit" - and in all the instances where it is used in reference to Him, no objective reader could ever miss the fact that such verses point to the Holy Spirit.

You really shoot yourself in the leg because the verse supplied made us known that the holy spirit has been in existence and we cannot be expecting another. Can holy spirit replaces human spirit?
Does holy spirit speak or inspire?

Thanks

After having entertained you guys with your inconsistencies, here again is a reminder:

pilgrim.1:


#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?

#2. Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?

Please deal with them before you can interest me with anything further.

Thank you.

@olabowale,

It wasn't as if I had no answers for your queries; but the reason why I decided to initially ignore whatever questions you were asking is because you guys have been playing an evasive gimmick of never seeking to engage in dialogue and offer answers to the simple few questions presented to you - even though I've always made it a point to carefully consider yours and respond as cordially as I could help it. It's often my style to go to the sources - particularly the Bible, the Qur'an, and the Hadiths - and discuss issues from them rather than argue away from the core concerns of any subject.

I'll oblige you this once again, hoping that you and your Muslim brethren would be willing to discuss issues and seek to answers questions whenever asked - just as yours have always been answered without evading or deflecting away from a particular course.

olabowale:

John 14 verse 15: (Jesus promise of the Holy spirit); If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14 verse 26; But the counselor, The Holy spirit, whom the father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everyrhing I have said to you.

These two verses above are from the New International version of the Holy Bible: My questions to the learned people of christianity are many but I will pose just a few regarding the above:

1) What command of Jesus were/are the lovers of Jesus supposed to obey?
2) What has the Holy spirit, also known as the counselor who the Father (I assume God Almighty is meant here), will send, taught any in all the over 2000 years of christendom?
We must take into account that the Holy spirit is to teach and will remind everything that Jesus have said to his desciples to carry on to the future generations to come. If the holy spirit has not came, I understand the conditions of the christians as to the matter of adultery and fornication and other ills which may include alcoholism, usury, etc. However if the holy spirit had come, what did the holy spirit say about adultery, fornication, usury, and others?

We must never forget that to teach is an addition to the remind, which Jesus mentioned in the verse. It seems to me, unless it can be explained otherwise that the teach part of the function of this Holy spirit, will be addition to what Jesus had already informed his community, in his mission.

Maybe we need to ask our pastors and leaders of the church about the teach and the remind of the Holy spirit.

Let me first briefly answer your two questions before going on to point out the issues highlighted in yours - especially because babs787 has been often circling around and away from the fact that the Comforter/Counsellor is none other than the Holy Spirit!

@olabowale,

So, answering your questions:

Question #1. 1) What command of Jesus were/are the lovers of Jesus supposed to obey?

Answer: "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." (Matt. 28:20)

The things that the Lord Jesus Christ commanded can be found, not in the Qur'an or hadiths, but in the Bible. For example:

(a) the Kingdom principles (the Beatitudes) - Matt. 5:1-16

(b) Kingdom relationships - Matt. 5:17 - 7:29
~ warnings against breaking God's commandments
~ warnings against unreasonable anger and murder intents
~ dealing with temptations and divorce
~ forgiveness, oaths, fasting, prayer, benevolence, faith
~ warning against false prophets

(c) Teaching and demonstrating His Lordship - Matthew 12
~ He is Lord of the Sabbath
~ He is the One who destroys Satan
~ warnings against blaspheming the Holy Spirit!
~ illustrating His death and resurrection - sign of 'Jonas'

(d) Mysteries of the Kingdom - the Parables: Matthew 13
~ the Sower and the seed
~ the Wheat and the tares
~ the Mustard and the leaven
~ the Treasure and the Pearl
~ the Net and gathering

(e) Defilement comes from man's heart - Matthew 15

(f) The Prophetic promise of the Church - Matthew 16
~ the Church built on the revelation of His divine Sonship
~ the prophecy of His coming in Glory
~ the power of His life in believers

Olabowale, all the above are by no means exhaustive; and I could go on and on. But notice these are just from the Gospel of Matthew alone! In the other Gospels, you will find so many others - and then the detail of His teaching as expounded in the epistles of the apostles. . . before you finally get to the Revelation of God's final government with man and creation! There's something which we should not miss out: the prophetic significance of ISRAEL all through the NT!

A Muslim who makes the assumption that Muhammad came with the same message as Jesus did, should please carefully go through his or her own copy of the Qur'an and then point out where we can find the following four particular things:

~ the teachings of Jesus concerning His Lordship
(cf. Matthew 12 as above)

~ Jesus' prophetic promises concerning the Church
(cf. Matthew 16 and 18)

~ Jesus' teaching about His Death and Resurrection
(Matthew 16:21; 17:22-23; 20:17-19)

~ the prophetic significance of His Second Coming
(cf. Matthew 24)

Now, if these matters are not in the Qur'an as explicitly given in the Bible, how is it then that you Muslims have always tried to discredit the Bible based on the denials that Muhammad made? What you should understand is that every verse in the Bible is important to Christians - and when Muslims begin to disrespectfully and cowardly try to cast aspersions on the facts in the Bible, they should understand that they're only hurting the cause of Islam more seriously. WHY? For the simple reason that such cowardly denials only artculates their dishonesty.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

2) What has the Holy spirit, also known as the counselor who the Father (I assume God Almighty is meant here), will send, taught any in all the over 2000 years of christendom?

We must never forget that to teach is an addition to the remind, which Jesus mentioned in the verse. It seems to me, unless it can be explained otherwise that the teach part of the function of this Holy spirit, will be addition to what Jesus had already informed his community, in his mission.

The answers are staring you in the face as you open the pages of the Bible! It is not a matter of adding laws endlessly to the Bible; rather, it is all about bringing God's WORD to our rememberance and opening our understanding to the Scriptures.

As you may have noticed even in your reposte, the Holy Spirit (The Comforter) have several blessings that He brings to believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. These include:

~ teaches all things regarding God's truth (John 14:26)

~ reminding us of God's truth (John 14:26)

~ testifies of Jesus (John 15:26)

~ guides into all truth (John 16:13)

~ reproves the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment
(John 16:8 )

Of course, there are many other things that the Holy Spirit does in our lives; but I have limited my answers to a few from the Gospel of John. The point is that some find it difficult to understand that the Holy Spirit actually speaks - and I have also demonstrated from the Bible that He actually speaks (Acts 13:2 and 1 Timothy 4:1); and reminds believers of what Jesus had both said and taught - for it was only by the Holy Spirit that it was possible for the disciples to have "remembered" what Jesus taught them (John 2:22; 12:16; 16:4). And also, the Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples that "the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say" (Luke 12:12).

All these matters are plain to see; and there is no need to try to ridicule the Christian faith based on some illiterate selective reading that some mullah somewhere blindly propounded as sold to simpletons among Muslims. That is why I stopped listening to the lies of the mullahs and sought to get a copy of the Bible to read for myself - and that was how I came to gradually know the truth that Muslims are not encouraged to find out for themselves!

pilgrim.1:

All these matters are plain to see; and there is no need to try to ridicule the Christian faith based on some illiterate selective reading that some mullah somewhere blindly propounded as sold to simpletons among Muslims. That is why I stopped listening to the lies of the mullahs and sought to get a copy of the Bible to read for myself - and that was how I came to gradually know the truth that Muslims are not encouraged to find out for themselves!

You hit the nail on the head!
I read posts here by Islamists doing a woeful job of mis-interpreting passages, going out of context and just trying to paste their propaganda on the bible. Na wa.
The koran itself explicitly mentions Jesus, we dont have to invent him there. Not that its a big deal.
We know Him and He knows us.

@pilgrims


Continue going round in circles, my questions again:


1. Since you claimed that it referred to Holy spirit, has it not been in existence?

2. Can holy spirit replaces human spirit?

3. What is the position of 'another' in that context?


Thanks and please dont try deflecting topic.

You havent provided answer to trhe questions on Jesus reading the bible

@olabowale,

Now, let me bring your and babs787's attention to the same thing I had severally challenged you with all this while:

olabowale:


John 14 verse 15: (Jesus promise of the Holy spirit); If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14 verse 26; But the counselor, The Holy spirit, whom the father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everyrhing I have said to you.

These two verses above are from the New International version of the Holy Bible: My questions to the learned people of christianity are many but I will pose just a few regarding the above:

1) What command of Jesus were/are the lovers of Jesus supposed to obey?
2) What has the Holy spirit, also known as the counselor who the Father . . .

You know what? Even you olabowale was not as arrogant as Babs787 - because you could not deny that the Comforter/Counsellor is called "the Holy Spirit"!!

I deliberately left out John 14:26 initially when I replied all of babs787's questions, because I knew it would be a matter of time before he would exhaust making a fool of himself!  

Hoping he would have come round seeing the answer to his question as to whether "the Comforter" is "The Holy Spirit", he was so dense and blind as a bat to have missed it SEVERAL times!!! I let him expose himself that many times in his bold-faced DENIALS of the fact, so that readers could see the sort of person Babs really is!!

But since you were far more intelligent and more responsible than Babs to have calmed down and then quote the verse directly, I have no choice at this point to help him see that his cherry-picking only further damages his illiterate posts!

First, I'll like to quote the confirmation that "the Comforter is the Holy Spirit" in the same verse from a few versions of the Bible:


[center][size=14pt]John 14:26 - The Comforter IS the Holy Spirit[/size][/center]

[list]
(DRB - Douay Rheims)
"But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(Darby)
"but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(EMTV - English Majority Text Version)
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name"
- - -
(ALT - Analytical Literal Translation)
"But the Counselor [or, Helper], the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name"
- - -
(ASV - American Standard Version)
"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(ESV - English Standard Version)
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(KJV - King James Version)
"But [size=14pt]the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost[/size], whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(LITV - Literal Translation)
"but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name"
- - -
(RV - Revised Version)
"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(Webster)
"But the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(WNT - Weymouth New Testament)
"But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send at my request"
- - -
(YLT - Young's Literal Translation)
"and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name'
[/list]

Now that it is clear for all to see that the Comforter was clearly identified by Jesus Christ Himself in the same Gospel of John:

(KJV - King James Version)
"But [size=14pt]the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost[/size], whom the Father will send in my name"

. . . does anyone wonder why folks like babs787 have conspicuously demonstrated their illiteracy in denying the obvious? There would indeed be more hope for a fool than for such a fellow braging with empty skull - just as the Bible has precisely said:

Proverbs 29:20  "Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him."

Babs can check that out from various versions and see what a fool he made of himself!

@babs787,

babs787:

1. Since you claimed that it referred to Holy spirit, has it not been in existence?

If it's either that is the daftest thing on the internet or you just want to continue in your shameless bold-faced LIE, readers can see you in your transparent duplicity. I warned you, babs787 - never play games with pilgrim.1, because you will be sorry for the FRAUD that you are!!

(KJV - King James Version - John 14:26)
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name"

Did you miss that verse in your selective dubious reading of the same Gospel of John?

From the onset, I was so sure that if there's any verse in the Bible that is fitting to your description, then here it is:

Proverbs 29:20
"Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him."


You have seen it for yourself - Jesus clearly identified the Comforter as THE HOLY SPIRIT - John 14:26!! When you settle down and bleach your ribald night-school drivel, the same question is waiting for you:

#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE [b]HOLY SPIRIT[/b]"?

#2. Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?

You evade those questions, then you babs7878 confirm that you're simply a FRAUD on a rascal diabolic mission of LIES for Islam! 

After having entertained you guys with your inconsistencies, here again is a reminder:

pilgrim.1:


#1. WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?

#2. Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?

Please deal with them before you can interest me with anything further.

Thank you.

@somze,

somze:

You hit the nail on the head!
I read posts here by Islamists doing a woeful job of mis-interpreting passages, going out of context and just trying to paste their propaganda on the bible. Na wa.
The koran itself explicitly mentions Jesus, we don't have to invent him there. Not that its a big deal.
We know Him and He knows us.

Amen, bro!

The shameless duplicity often pandered about in Islam was one of the reasons I brought the likes of Babs787 and Olabowale HERE!- Besides exposing the fact that they are total strangers to Truth, they also have once again demonstrated that there is a STRONGER reason for pilgrim.1 to have left Islam forever and stay out of their FRAUD till my blessed Saviour - Jesus Christ - returns!


Cheers.

OLABOWALE and BABS787,

I deliberately brought you here just for one goal - to help you see this as clearly as open eyes can allow:

Jesus pointed out that the Comforter is none other than THE HOLY SPIRIT! (John 14:26)

Is Muhammad ever called "THE HOLY SPIRIT" by Allah or anybody in the Qur'an, Hadiths, or Ibn Ishaq?!?

Any Muslim reading John's Gospel 14 to 16 and trying to claim that Muhammad is "The Comforter" is also trying to claim that the Quraish prophet is "The Holy SPIRIT"!! If any reader cannot see the FRAUD in that claim, they will continue to be blind forever in the shameless FRAUD in Islam!!

Muhammad has nothing to do with John's Gospel. Any attempt to dribble him there is a shameless FRAUD!! QED.

pilgrim.1:

The shameless duplicity often pandered about in Islam was one of the reasons I brought the likes of Babs787 and Olabowale HERE!- Besides exposing the fact that they are total strangers to Truth, they also have once again demonstrated that there is a STRONGER reason for pilgrim.1 to have left Islam forever and stay out of their FRAUD till my blessed Saviour - Jesus Christ - returns!

Note the two areas higlighted.
Cheers

somze:

Note the two areas higlighted.
Cheers

Lol. . . thanks bros somze.

babs [/b]blackness is sure thinker than [b]elder Ola's own.

babs, you need to let your trouser reach the ground cos that might help increase your reasoning capabilities. Your reasoning leaves nothing to be desired of you.

@cgift,

After all the evidence have come in and there's no way to deny the obvious any longer, the best way to help a fraud is to tell him to his face: Babs is a FRAUD! Period!

It helps such folks see their duplicity and come to terms with their illiteracy.

pilgrim.1:

@cgift,

After all the evidence have come in and there's no way to deny the obvious any longer, the best way to help a fraud is to tell him to his face: Babs is a FRAUD! Period!

It helps such folks see their duplicity and come to terms with their illiteracy.

I couldnt say more.

@pilgrim

You know what? Even you olabowale was not as arrogant as Babs787 - because you could not deny that the Comforter/Counsellor is called "the Holy Spirit"!!

Omo ti won ko ba ko nile, ita ni o to ma ko eko

I deliberately left out John 14:26 initially when I replied all of babs787's questions, because I knew it would be a matter of time before he would exhaust making a fool of himself!

Where did you answer him? You have started showing the stuff you are made, very uncouth human being and I know that there is no way you can go on without doing same. Keep it up, omo odod rere

Hoping he would have come round seeing the answer to his question as to whether "the Comforter" is "The Holy Spirit", he was so dense and blind as a bat to have missed it SEVERAL times!!! I let him expose himself that many times in his bold-faced DENIALS of the fact, so that readers could see the sort of person Babs really is!!

You may cry from now till tomorrow but a single question still for you, since you are claiming the verse is for holy spirit, has it been in existence or not?

But since you were far more intelligent and more responsible than Babs to have calmed down and then quote the verse directly, I have no choice at this point to help him see that his cherry-picking only further damages his illiterate posts!

I know you are very literate and that is the more reason, you have been going in circles and please I thnk you should have pictures of elders at home. I warned you earlier of your uncouth behaviour in which you apologised ut you have shown it again meaning that ko si bi a se le se ebolo, ki o ma run igbe.

First, I'll like to quote the confirmation that "the Comforter is the Holy Spirit" in the same verse from a few versions of the Bible:

Ok.

John 14:26 - The Comforter IS the Holy Spirit

how many holy spirits are we having since one has and still in existence?


(DRB - Douay Rheims)
"But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(Darby)
"but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(EMTV - English Majority Text Version)
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name"
- - -
(ALT - Analytical Literal Translation)
"But the Counselor [or, Helper], the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name"
- - -
(ASV - American Standard Version)
"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(ESV - English Standard Version)
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(KJV - King James Version)
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(LITV - Literal Translation)
"but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name"
- - -
(RV - Revised Version)
"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(Webster)
"But the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(WNT - Weymouth New Testament)
"But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send at my request"
- - -
(YLT - Young's Literal Translation)
"and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name'


Now that it is clear for all to see that the Comforter was clearly identified by Jesus Christ Himself in the same Gospel of John:


Quote

(KJV - King James Version)
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name"

I can that the word 'spirit' is creating confusion in the christian world. Now, since that word is your problem, when you are claiming that the verse is referring to Holy spirit, has it not been in existence?

Does the holy spirit speak or inspire?

It must be pointed out that the original Greek manuscripts speak of a "Holy pneuma." The word pneuma {pnyoo'-mah} is the Greek root word for "spirit." There is no separate word for "Ghost" in the Greek manuscripts, of which there are claimed to be over 24,000 today. The translators of the King James Version of the Bible translate this word as "Ghost" to convey their own personal understanding of the text. However, a more accurate translation is "Holy Spirit." More faithful and recent translations of the Bible, such as the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), do indeed now translate it as "Holy Spirit." This is significant, and will be expounded upon shortly.

All Bibles in existence today are compiled from "ancient manuscripts," the most ancient of which being those of the fourth century C.E. Any scholar of the Bible will tell us that no two ancient manuscripts are exactly identical. All Bibles in our possession today are the result of extensive cutting and pasting from these various manuscripts with no single one being the definitive reference.

What the translators of the Bible have done when presented with such discrepancies is to do their best to choose the correct version. In other words, since they can not know which "ancient manuscript" is the correct one, they must do a little detective work on the text in order to decide which "version" of a given verse to accept. John 14:26 is just such an example of such selection techniques.

John 14:26 is the only verse of the Bible which associates the Parakletos with the Holy Spirit. But if we were to go back to the "ancient manuscripts" themselves, we would find that they are not all in agreement that the "Parakletos" is the Holy Spirit. For instance, in the famous the Codex Syriacus, written around the fifth century C.E., and discovered in 1812 on Mount Sinai by Mrs.Agnes S. Lewis (and Mrs. Bensley), the text of 14:26 reads; "Paraclete, the Spirit"; and not "Paraclete, the Holy Spirit.".


In the famous "Anchor Bible" we find the following quote: "The word parakletos is peculiar in the NT to the Johnannine literature. In John ii Jesus is a parakletos (not a title), serving as a heavenly intercessor with the Father , Christian tradition has identified this figure (Paraclete) as the Holy Spirit, but scholars like Spitta, Delafosse, Windisch, Sasse, Bultmann, and Betz have doubted whether this identification is true to the original picture and have suggested that the Paraclete was once an independent salvific figure, later confused with the Holy Spirit." ((The Anchor Bible, Doubleday & Company, Inc, Garden City, N.Y. 1970, Volume 29A, p. 1135)

We are able to note some things from that same verses which are:

1. The Holy spirit does not speak but inspire

The Greek word translated as "hear" in the Biblical verses ("whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak" is the Greek word "akouo" {ak-oo'-o} meaning to perceive sounds. It has, for instance, given us the word "acoustics," the science of sounds. Similarly the verb "to speak" is the Greek verb "laleo" {lal-eh'-o} which has the general meaning "to emit sounds" and the specific meaning "to speak." This verb occurs very frequently in the Greek text of the Gospels. It designates a solemn declaration by Jesus (peace be upon him) during his preachings (For example Matthew 9:18). Obviously these verbs require hearing and speech organs in order to facilitate them. There is a distinct difference between someone "inspiring" something and him "speaking" something. So the Paraclete will "hear" and "speak," not "inspire."


2. The Holy spirit was already with them:


Genesis 1v 2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

1 Samuel 10v 10 "And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them."

1 Samuel 11 v 6 "And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly."

Isaiah 63 v 11"Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?"

Luke 1 v 15 "For he (John the Baptist) shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."


3. Jesus too is a Paraclete:

The word "Paraclete" is applied to Jesus (peace be upon him) himself in 1 John 2:1

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate(parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

Notice how the translators have managed to translate this exact same word one way (advocate) in reference to Jesus and another (comforter) with regard to the coming "parakletos."

Also;

"we have an advocate(parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"

aND

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another advocate(parakletos)."


We have been able to see from the above that Jesus was a paraclete too and another comforter cannot be Holy spirit but a man like him. Let us continue


4. 'another' comforter

If the comforter is the Holy Ghost then how many Holy Ghost's are there? The word "another" is significant. We have already seen how this term is applied to Jesus himself. In English, "another" may mean "One more of the same kind" or "one more of a different kind." If the latter were the one intended then the current Christian interpretation might bear some merit. However, if "One more of the same kind" was what was intended then this is positive proof that the coming Paraclete would be just like Jesus, a human being and a prophet, not a ghost. The actual Greek word used was the word "allon" which is the masculine accusative form of "allos" {al'-los}: "Another of the SAME kind." The Greek word for "another of a different kind" is "heteros" {het'-er-os}.


Prof. Abdul-Ahad Dawud (formerly Rev. David Benjamin Keldani, Bishop of Uramia) says:

"The adjective 'another' preceding a foreign noun for the first time announced seems very strange and totally superfluous. There is no doubt that the text has been tampered with and distorted." (Muhammad in the Bible, Prof. Abdul-`Ahad Dawud, p. 211)

"The Paraclete is a parallel figure to Jesus himself; and this conclusion is confirmed in the fact that the title is suitable for both. It is clear from 14:16 that the source thought there were sendings of two Paracletes, Jesus and his successor, the one following the other" (The Gospel of John a Commentary, Rudolf Bultmann, p. 567)



5. "He" not "It":

Notice the use of "he" when referring to the Paraclete and not "it." If we read John 16:13, we will find no less than SEVEN occurrences of the masculine pronoun "He" and "Himself." There is not another verse in the 66 books of the Protestant Bible or the seventy three books of the Catholic Bible which contains seven masculine pronouns, or seven feminine pronouns, or even seven neuter genders. So many masculine pronouns ill befits a ghost, holy or otherwise. The word "Spirit" (Greek, pneu'ma), is of a neutral gender and is always referred to by the pronoun "it."


6. Sin, righteousness, and error:

The coming comforter, we are told, will demonstrate the error of the world regarding sin, righteousness, and judgment "he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." This is indeed what Muhammad did. He came to the world to show them how they had been misguided in "sin" by believing that mankind can inherit sin (see last quarter of chapter one, and Ezekiel 18:19-20) and that someone's sin can be forgiven by the sacrifice of others. He also showed them how they had been misguided in "righteousness" by believing that a righteous person is one who has "faith" in the crucifixion and does nothing else (Romans 3:28), or who believes that another man's death will make him a righteous person (Romans 5:19). And they were misguided in "judgment" by believing that they will be judged by "faith" and other people's deeds and not their own deeds (Mark 16:16), or that God's "judgment" was to punish all mankind for the sin of one man (Romans 5:16, 5:18).

Muhammad taught that the unscrupulous had altered the words of Jesus .He taught that no one will be held accountable by God for anyone else's sin. He emphasized that God has made this a life of work and the next life one of reward and no work. He also revealed that mankind will be judged individually according to their own individual faith and actions and no one else's


7. That he may abide with you for ever:

In these verses, Jesus (peace be upon him) is quoted as saying that the coming Paraclete will "abide with you forever." What does he mean by this? In order to understand this statement, let us read

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying." (John 8:51-55)


So the religion of Islam is the last message to mankind and it, as well as the Qur'an, will abide with them forever. To this day, Muhammad abides with us through his teachings. Muhammad indeed remains alive and well among us in the vast collection of over 9,500 quotations recorded from him during his lifetime in a broad range of topics. This collection of quotations is named the "Hadith." To this day, whenever a Muslims wishes to perform any action no matter how trivial, he does not advance a single step before first consulting Allah/God (in the Qur'an), and then prophet Muhammad (in the Hadith). Be it a question on how and what to eat or drink, how to perform marriages, how to pray, what sort of trade or commerce is permissible or prohibited, or what sort of clothes to wear, no Muslim presumes to undertake any action before first obtaining the approval of God then His prophet. Muhammad truly is alive and well among us.

Jesus had "the whole truth" and had many things he longed to teach his disciples but he could not give it to them because they "cannot bear them now." These matters would only be revealed six centuries later by God through the agency of Muhammad .What new truths has the Holy Spirit guided us into after the departure of Jesus which Jesus had no say in?



Very important: The Paracletos will be the last prophet, because he will "abide with you forever" and "he will guide you into all truth" (Greek "into the whole truth" and "he shall teach you all things," so there will be no need for any further prophets. In the Qur'an we read:

"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is Aware of all things." (The noble Qur'an, , al-Ahzab(33):40)


8. He shall not speak of himself:

"For he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak:"
The statement remind us of the verses of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 :

" I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him."

It is also interesting to read the words of the Qur'an:

"Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of his own desire. It is but an Inspiration that is inspired [unto him]" (The noble Qur'an, Al-Najm(53):3-4)


9. He shall bring all things into your remembrance:

The prophesy of this coming comforter requires that he shall remind mankind of the words of Jesus. Jesus is speaking here not to those who disbelieved, but to his own followers. He is telling his followers that the comforter shall "remind" them of the message of Jesus. However, if the followers of Jesus already know and remember all that Jesus taught then how shall the comforter "remind" them of something which they already remember? Obviously, the coming comforter shall come in a time when the teachings of Jesus have been forgotten and require one to "remind" Jesus' followers of them. Indeed, the Qur'an does in fact confirm this same situation. We read:

Quran 5 v 14 - 16: "And from those who said: "We are Christians," We took their covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message which was sent to them. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, and Allah will inform them of what they used to do. O people of the Scripture! Now has Our messenger (Muhammad) come to you, explaining to you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Indeed, there has come to you a light from Allah and a plain Scripture. Wherewith Allah guides him who seeks His good pleasure unto paths of peace. He brings them out of darkness by His will into light, and guides them to a straight path."

Also

Quran 15 v 9; "Verily, it is We who have sent down 'The Reminder' and it is We who shall preserve it"

Lastly:


He will show you things to come:

There were many prophesies made in the Qur'an and in the Sunnah (tradition) of the prophet Muhammad himself. For instance, in the opening verses of the chapter of al-Room (The Romans), we read:

Quran 30 v 2-6: "The Romans have been defeated. In the lowest/closest land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious. Within ten years. Allah's is the command in the former case and in the latter and in that day the believers will rejoice. In Allah's support to victory. He helps to victory whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Merciful. It is a promise of Allah. Allah fails not His promise, but most of mankind know not. They know only some appearance of the life of the world, and are heedless of the Hereafter"

When Islam was still in its infancy and its followers were being severely persecuted, tortured, and killed by the pagan idol worshipers of Arabia (Quraish), there were two "Superpowers" near by. They were the Romans and the Persians. The pagans of Arabia used to like to see the Persians victorious against the Romans because the Persians were pagans like them. However, the Muslims liked to see the Romans victorious because they were "people of the book." About this time, the Romans suffered a resounding defeat to the Persians that seemed to signal the end of the Roman empire. The pagans of Arabia were ecstatic. They went out of their way to hold this defeat over the heads of every Muslim they would encounter. They said: "Just as the Christians in Rome have been crushed by the pagans of Persia, so shall we crush you." This was psychological warfare against the Muslims which they were adding to the physical torture they were subjecting the Muslims to. It was at this time that these verses were revealed to Muhammad ( consoling him and the Muslims in general that matters were not as they seemed, and that the Romans would come back and defeat the Persians within "Bidh'u" years. "Bidh'u" is an Arabic word that means "between three and nine." This prophesy did indeed come true and the Romans were once again victorious against the Persians, at the same time, the Muslims achieved their first strategic victory against the pagans of Arabia in the battle of Badr.

Mr. Abdullah Yusuf Ali, in his commentary on the Qur'an narrates the following explanation of the above verses:

"The remarkable defeats of the Roman Empire under Heraclius and the straits to which it was reduced are reviewed in Appendix No. 6 (to follow this Sura). It was not merely isolated defeats; the Roman Empire lost most of its Asiatic territory and was hemmed in on all sides at its capital, Constantinople. The defeat, "in a land close by" must refer to Syria and Palestine, Jerusalem was lost in 614-15 AD, shortly before this Sura was revealed.

The Pagan Quraish of Makkah rejoiced at the overthrow of Rome by Persia. They were pro-Persian, and in their heart of hearts they hoped that the nascent movement of Islam, which at that time was, from a worldly point of view, very weak and helpless, would also collapse under their persecution. But they misread the true Signs of the times. They are told here that they would soon be disillusioned in both their calculations, and it actually so happened at the battle of Issus in 622 (the year of Hijrat) and in 624, when Heradius carried his campaign into the heart of Persia and the Makkan Quraish were beaten off at Badr.

Bidh'un in the text means a short period-a period of from three to nine years. The period between the loss of Jerusalem (614-15) by the Romans and their victory at Issus (622) was seven years, and that to the penetration of Persia by Heraclius was nine years. See last note.

The battle of Badr (2 A.H. = 624 AD) was a real time of rejoicing for the Believers and a time of disillusionment for the arrogant Quraish, who thought that they could crush the whole movement of Islam in Madinah as they had tried to do in Makkah, but they were singly repulsed."


Brat, read and provide rebuttal.


Salam, the door of Islam is still open. The wise pray five times daily. Do not die in ignorance

@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim


Omo ti won ko ba ko nile, ita ni o to ma ko eko


Where did you answer him? You have started showing the stuff you are made, very uncouth human being and I know that there is no way you can go on without doing same. Keep it up, omo odod rere


You may cry from now till tomorrow but a single question still for you, since you are claiming the verse is for holy spirit, has it been in existence or not?


I know you are very literate and that is the more reason, you have been going in circles and please I thnk you should have pictures of elders at home. I warned you earlier of your uncouth behaviour in which you apologised ut you have shown it again meaning that ko si bi a se le se ebolo, ki o ma run igbe.


Ok.


how many holy spirits are we having since one has and still in existence?


(DRB - Douay Rheims)
"But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(Darby)
"but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(EMTV - English Majority Text Version)
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name"
- - -
(ALT - Analytical Literal Translation)
"But the Counselor [or, Helper], the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name"
- - -
(ASV - American Standard Version)
"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(ESV - English Standard Version)
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(KJV - King James Version)
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(LITV - Literal Translation)
"but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name"
- - -
(RV - Revised Version)
"But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(Webster)
"But the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name"
- - -
(WNT - Weymouth New Testament)
"But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send at my request"
- - -
(YLT - Young's Literal Translation)
"and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name'


Now that it is clear for all to see that the Comforter was clearly identified by Jesus Christ Himself in the same Gospel of John:


Quote

(KJV - King James Version)
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name"



I can that the word 'spirit' is creating confusion in the christian world. Now, since that word is your problem, when you are claiming that the verse is referring to Holy spirit, has it not been in existence?

Does the holy spirit speak or inspire?

It must be pointed out that the original Greek manuscripts speak of a "Holy pneuma." The word pneuma {pnyoo'-mah} is the Greek root word for "spirit." There is no separate word for "Ghost" in the Greek manuscripts, of which there are claimed to be over 24,000 today. The translators of the King James Version of the Bible translate this word as "Ghost" to convey their own personal understanding of the text. However, a more accurate translation is "Holy Spirit." More faithful and recent translations of the Bible, such as the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), do indeed now translate it as "Holy Spirit." This is significant, and will be expounded upon shortly.

All Bibles in existence today are compiled from "ancient manuscripts," the most ancient of which being those of the fourth century C.E. Any scholar of the Bible will tell us that no two ancient manuscripts are exactly identical. All Bibles in our possession today are the result of extensive cutting and pasting from these various manuscripts with no single one being the definitive reference.

What the translators of the Bible have done when presented with such discrepancies is to do their best to choose the correct version. In other words, since they can not know which "ancient manuscript" is the correct one, they must do a little detective work on the text in order to decide which "version" of a given verse to accept. John 14:26 is just such an example of such selection techniques.

John 14:26 is the only verse of the Bible which associates the Parakletos with the Holy Spirit. But if we were to go back to the "ancient manuscripts" themselves, we would find that they are not all in agreement that the "Parakletos" is the Holy Spirit. For instance, in the famous the Codex Syriacus, written around the fifth century C.E., and discovered in 1812 on Mount Sinai by Mrs.Agnes S. Lewis (and Mrs. Bensley), the text of 14:26 reads; "Paraclete, the Spirit"; and not "Paraclete, the Holy Spirit.".


In the famous "Anchor Bible" we find the following quote: "The word parakletos is peculiar in the NT to the Johnannine literature. In John ii Jesus is a parakletos (not a title), serving as a heavenly intercessor with the Father , Christian tradition has identified this figure (Paraclete) as the Holy Spirit, but scholars like Spitta, Delafosse, Windisch, Sasse, Bultmann, and Betz have doubted whether this identification is true to the original picture and have suggested that the Paraclete was once an independent salvific figure, later confused with the Holy Spirit." ((The Anchor Bible, Doubleday & Company, Inc, Garden City, N.Y. 1970, Volume 29A, p. 1135)

We are able to note some things from that same verses which are:

1. The Holy spirit does not speak but inspire

The Greek word translated as "hear" in the Biblical verses ("whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak" is the Greek word "akouo" {ak-oo'-o} meaning to perceive sounds. It has, for instance, given us the word "acoustics," the science of sounds. Similarly the verb "to speak" is the Greek verb "laleo" {lal-eh'-o} which has the general meaning "to emit sounds" and the specific meaning "to speak." This verb occurs very frequently in the Greek text of the Gospels. It designates a solemn declaration by Jesus (peace be upon him) during his preachings (For example Matthew 9:18). Obviously these verbs require hearing and speech organs in order to facilitate them. There is a distinct difference between someone "inspiring" something and him "speaking" something. So the Paraclete will "hear" and "speak," not "inspire."


2. The Holy spirit was already with them:


Genesis 1v 2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

1 Samuel 10v 10 "And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them."

1 Samuel 11 v 6 "And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly."

Isaiah 63 v 11"Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?"

Luke 1 v 15 "For he (John the Baptist) shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."


3. Jesus too is a Paraclete:

The word "Paraclete" is applied to Jesus (peace be upon him) himself in 1 John 2:1

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate(parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

Notice how the translators have managed to translate this exact same word one way (advocate) in reference to Jesus and another (comforter) with regard to the coming "parakletos."

Also;

"we have an advocate(parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"

aND

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another advocate(parakletos)."


We have been able to see from the above that Jesus was a paraclete too and another comforter cannot be Holy spirit but a man like him. Let us continue


4. 'another' comforter

If the comforter is the Holy Ghost then how many Holy Ghost's are there? The word "another" is significant. We have already seen how this term is applied to Jesus himself. In English, "another" may mean "One more of the same kind" or "one more of a different kind." If the latter were the one intended then the current Christian interpretation might bear some merit. However, if "One more of the same kind" was what was intended then this is positive proof that the coming Paraclete would be just like Jesus, a human being and a prophet, not a ghost. The actual Greek word used was the word "allon" which is the masculine accusative form of "allos" {al'-los}: "Another of the SAME kind." The Greek word for "another of a different kind" is "heteros" {het'-er-os}.


Prof. Abdul-Ahad Dawud (formerly Rev. David Benjamin Keldani, Bishop of Uramia) says:

"The adjective 'another' preceding a foreign noun for the first time announced seems very strange and totally superfluous. There is no doubt that the text has been tampered with and distorted." (Muhammad in the Bible, Prof. Abdul-`Ahad Dawud, p. 211)

"The Paraclete is a parallel figure to Jesus himself; and this conclusion is confirmed in the fact that the title is suitable for both. It is clear from 14:16 that the source thought there were sendings of two Paracletes, Jesus and his successor, the one following the other" (The Gospel of John a Commentary, Rudolf Bultmann, p. 567)



5. "He" not "It":

Notice the use of "he" when referring to the Paraclete and not "it." If we read John 16:13, we will find no less than SEVEN occurrences of the masculine pronoun "He" and "Himself." There is not another verse in the 66 books of the Protestant Bible or the seventy three books of the Catholic Bible which contains seven masculine pronouns, or seven feminine pronouns, or even seven neuter genders. So many masculine pronouns ill befits a ghost, holy or otherwise. The word "Spirit" (Greek, pneu'ma), is of a neutral gender and is always referred to by the pronoun "it."


6. Sin, righteousness, and error:

The coming comforter, we are told, will demonstrate the error of the world regarding sin, righteousness, and judgment "he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." This is indeed what Muhammad did. He came to the world to show them how they had been misguided in "sin" by believing that mankind can inherit sin (see last quarter of chapter one, and Ezekiel 18:19-20) and that someone's sin can be forgiven by the sacrifice of others. He also showed them how they had been misguided in "righteousness" by believing that a righteous person is one who has "faith" in the crucifixion and does nothing else (Romans 3:28), or who believes that another man's death will make him a righteous person (Romans 5:19). And they were misguided in "judgment" by believing that they will be judged by "faith" and other people's deeds and not their own deeds (Mark 16:16), or that God's "judgment" was to punish all mankind for the sin of one man (Romans 5:16, 5:18).

Muhammad taught that the unscrupulous had altered the words of Jesus .He taught that no one will be held accountable by God for anyone else's sin. He emphasized that God has made this a life of work and the next life one of reward and no work. He also revealed that mankind will be judged individually according to their own individual faith and actions and no one else's


7. That he may abide with you for ever:

In these verses, Jesus (peace be upon him) is quoted as saying that the coming Paraclete will "abide with you forever." What does he mean by this? In order to understand this statement, let us read

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying." (John 8:51-55)


So the religion of Islam is the last message to mankind and it, as well as the Qur'an, will abide with them forever. To this day, Muhammad abides with us through his teachings. Muhammad indeed remains alive and well among us in the vast collection of over 9,500 quotations recorded from him during his lifetime in a broad range of topics. This collection of quotations is named the "Hadith." To this day, whenever a Muslims wishes to perform any action no matter how trivial, he does not advance a single step before first consulting Allah/God (in the Qur'an), and then prophet Muhammad (in the Hadith). Be it a question on how and what to eat or drink, how to perform marriages, how to pray, what sort of trade or commerce is permissible or prohibited, or what sort of clothes to wear, no Muslim presumes to undertake any action before first obtaining the approval of God then His prophet. Muhammad truly is alive and well among us.

Jesus had "the whole truth" and had many things he longed to teach his disciples but he could not give it to them because they "cannot bear them now." These matters would only be revealed six centuries later by God through the agency of Muhammad .What new truths has the Holy Spirit guided us into after the departure of Jesus which Jesus had no say in?



Very important: The Paracletos will be the last prophet, because he will "abide with you forever" and "he will guide you into all truth" (Greek "into the whole truth" and "he shall teach you all things," so there will be no need for any further prophets. In the Qur'an we read:

"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is Aware of all things." (The noble Qur'an, , al-Ahzab(33):40)


8. He shall not speak of himself:

"For he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak:"
The statement remind us of the verses of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 :

" I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him."

It is also interesting to read the words of the Qur'an:

"Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of his own desire. It is but an Inspiration that is inspired [unto him]" (The noble Qur'an, Al-Najm(53):3-4)


9. He shall bring all things into your remembrance:

The prophesy of this coming comforter requires that he shall remind mankind of the words of Jesus. Jesus is speaking here not to those who disbelieved, but to his own followers. He is telling his followers that the comforter shall "remind" them of the message of Jesus. However, if the followers of Jesus already know and remember all that Jesus taught then how shall the comforter "remind" them of something which they already remember? Obviously, the coming comforter shall come in a time when the teachings of Jesus have been forgotten and require one to "remind" Jesus' followers of them. Indeed, the Qur'an does in fact confirm this same situation. We read:

Quran 5 v 14 - 16: "And from those who said: "We are Christians," We took their covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message which was sent to them. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, and Allah will inform them of what they used to do. O people of the Scripture! Now has Our messenger (Muhammad) come to you, explaining to you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Indeed, there has come to you a light from Allah and a plain Scripture. Wherewith Allah guides him who seeks His good pleasure unto paths of peace. He brings them out of darkness by His will into light, and guides them to a straight path."

Also

Quran 15 v 9; "Verily, it is We who have sent down 'The Reminder' and it is We who shall preserve it"

Lastly:


He will show you things to come:

There were many prophesies made in the Qur'an and in the Sunnah (tradition) of the prophet Muhammad himself. For instance, in the opening verses of the chapter of al-Room (The Romans), we read:

Quran 30 v 2-6: "The Romans have been defeated. In the lowest/closest land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious. Within ten years. Allah's is the command in the former case and in the latter and in that day the believers will rejoice. In Allah's support to victory. He helps to victory whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Merciful. It is a promise of Allah. Allah fails not His promise, but most of mankind know not. They know only some appearance of the life of the world, and are heedless of the Hereafter"

When Islam was still in its infancy and its followers were being severely persecuted, tortured, and killed by the pagan idol worshipers of Arabia (Quraish), there were two "Superpowers" near by. They were the Romans and the Persians. The pagans of Arabia used to like to see the Persians victorious against the Romans because the Persians were pagans like them. However, the Muslims liked to see the Romans victorious because they were "people of the book." About this time, the Romans suffered a resounding defeat to the Persians that seemed to signal the end of the Roman empire. The pagans of Arabia were ecstatic. They went out of their way to hold this defeat over the heads of every Muslim they would encounter. They said: "Just as the Christians in Rome have been crushed by the pagans of Persia, so shall we crush you." This was psychological warfare against the Muslims which they were adding to the physical torture they were subjecting the Muslims to. It was at this time that these verses were revealed to Muhammad ( consoling him and the Muslims in general that matters were not as they seemed, and that the Romans would come back and defeat the Persians within "Bidh'u" years. "Bidh'u" is an Arabic word that means "between three and nine." This prophesy did indeed come true and the Romans were once again victorious against the Persians, at the same time, the Muslims achieved their first strategic victory against the pagans of Arabia in the battle of Badr.

Mr. Abdullah Yusuf Ali, in his commentary on the Qur'an narrates the following explanation of the above verses:

"The remarkable defeats of the Roman Empire under Heraclius and the straits to which it was reduced are reviewed in Appendix No. 6 (to follow this Sura). It was not merely isolated defeats; the Roman Empire lost most of its Asiatic territory and was hemmed in on all sides at its capital, Constantinople. The defeat, "in a land close by" must refer to Syria and Palestine, Jerusalem was lost in 614-15 AD, shortly before this Sura was revealed.

The Pagan Quraish of Makkah rejoiced at the overthrow of Rome by Persia. They were pro-Persian, and in their heart of hearts they hoped that the nascent movement of Islam, which at that time was, from a worldly point of view, very weak and helpless, would also collapse under their persecution. But they misread the true Signs of the times. They are told here that they would soon be disillusioned in both their calculations, and it actually so happened at the battle of Issus in 622 (the year of Hijrat) and in 624, when Heradius carried his campaign into the heart of Persia and the Makkan Quraish were beaten off at Badr.

Bidh'un in the text means a short period-a period of from three to nine years. The period between the loss of Jerusalem (614-15) by the Romans and their victory at Issus (622) was seven years, and that to the penetration of Persia by Heraclius was nine years. See last note.

The battle of Badr (2 A.H. = 624 AD) was a real time of rejoicing for the Believers and a time of disillusionment for the arrogant Quraish, who thought that they could crush the whole movement of Islam in Madinah as they had tried to do in Makkah, but they were singly repulsed."

Thank you so very much for living up to my predictions. . . if you didn't plaigiarize materials, your name would no longer have been BABS787!!

If you can find me where I ever plagiarize the posts to you, then you would have redeemed a bit of the new name tag of the FRAUD you are!!

Before leaving Islam, I already was familiar with the garboil from where you drew most of your cut-and-paste; although it has now been neatly dressed-up attractively. Below is the homepage and the relevant pages from where you often go and harvest your arguements and pretend you're better than you illiteracy:

(http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/contents.html) - Homepage
(http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch6.3.1.html) - Part II
(http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch6.3.html) - Part I

and in addition, one other which I also read through when while still a Muslim:

Juan R. I. Cole, "Behold the Man: Baha'u'llah on the Life of Jesus
(http://bahai-library.org/reviews/jesus.html)

Your problem, Babs787, is that you have no clues that you're dealing with someone who have deeply studied most sources while seeking God's truth - and that is how I spot you out so easily when you plagiarize articles from the internet! You're a fabulous FRAUD!

When you can address the simple question of WHERE Allah ever referred to Muhammad as THE HOLY SPIRIT in the QUR'AN or HADITH, then we shall move on. Failing to do that, you will never work you illiterate magic on pilgrim.1! NEVER!

Ciao!

@pilgrim

Thank you so very much for living up to my predictions. . . if you didn't plaigiarize materials, your name would no longer have been BABS787!!

If you can find me where I ever plagiarize the posts to you, then you would have redeemed a bit of the new name tag of the FRAUD you are!!

Before leaving Islam, I already was familiar with the garboil from where you drew most of your cut-and-paste; although it has now been neatly dressed-up attractively. Below is the homepage and the relevant pages from where you often go and harvest your arguements and pretend you're better than you illiteracy:

(http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/contents.html) - Homepage
(http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch6.3.1.html) - Part II
(http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch6.3.html) - Part I

and in addition, one other which I also read through when while still a Muslim:

Juan R. I. Cole, "Behold the Man: Baha'u'llah on the Life of Jesus
(http://bahai-library.org/reviews/jesus.html)

Your problem, Babs787, is that you have no clues that you're dealing with someone who have deeply studied most sources while seeking God's truth - and that is how I spot you out so easily when you plagiarize articles from the internet! You're a fabulous FRAUD!

When you can address the simple question of WHERE Allah ever referred to Muhammad as THE HOLY SPIRIT in the QUR'AN or HADITH, then we shall move on. Failing to do that, you will never work you illiterate magic on pilgrim.1! NEVER!

You lost it this time, I didnt even lift anything from that link neither do I know that there is a site like that. They may have similar content or whatever, but the fact remains, I never did that .You may provide your rebuttal and stop avoiding issues.