Uche2nna:

In all honesty, I think she performed reasonably well. Everybody expected her to goof up big time after all that "What does a VP do?" and I can see Russia from backyard" bullshit

Shhhh! Don't say that here, it's only cool to make fun of and name-call Palin! Never mind that she held up just as well as Biden. . .

Biden's rambling was definitely on par with Palin's rambling, that is for sure. They both, at best, sounded as if they practiced the answers from a book of generic debate questions, and adapted them to current events.

LadyT:

She will win and she will still be stupid.  Finish

That doesn't answer the question at all in a mature fashion, but ok sure.

Big B1:

First, I must admit to you (blackspade) that this is an excellent article and I recommend to others to take a quick look at it.

Second, it bothers me when Nigerians in America feel free to castigate African Americans for not measuring up to the golden standard. I wonder what is this Nigerian Golden Standard?
Just keep in mind that if it wasn't for these people, you hypocrite would be here with me in Ajegunle eating smoked corn for dinner 6 times a week.

Personally, I'll prefer African Americans to criticise each other; but for some Nigerian back-scratcher to careless open up his or her mouth to talk down at these people is absolutely ridiculous.

Finally, instead of bringing them down, why not show your sincere support by embracing what they've been through and what they stand for?

Yes, they do not have our incredible culture, but could someone please give me a complete description of our diluted uncivilised culture?
We need to slow down a bit; with all our education, flashy cars, and big houses, most of us are still empty inside.

It is very important for us to clearly understand that we're all equal, and none of us is in a position to point out the defectiveness of others; especially African Americans.

Between you and I, this group of people (African Americans) indirectly look up to us (Africans); and we mustn't allow our ignorance and anger to cloud our judgment.; we are all brothers and sisters.

Therefore, my vote is "their grievances are absolutely justified"

Though I may disagree with you on some of your political views at times, you are spot on with your statement and make great points. We, as Nigerians in America, owe our being here to the same African-Americans that we openly criticize, ignoring that we have our own problems. I believe that our own ignorance adds to the issues of black Americans. I will also vote that their grievances are justified. Let African-Americans work on their problems. They've been improving themselves before we arrived, and will continue to improve themselves without our say.

Meh, they both sucked, the debate was a waste of time.

drrionelli:

As the election draws closer, I thought it might be interesting to bring this topic back to the top of the list.

Shall the discussion continue?

No. This thread is already filled with foolishness. Besides, there are countless Obama threads up at the moment. Let's let this one die.

So, where do all these "hey look how dumb Palin is!" comments get us? I am not defending her, but how do we know about what she does or doesn't know about leadership capabilities? Why not take a more mature approach to critiquing her interview? Chances are, this woman could end up being vice president of the US, and could be a better leader than you think.

codeworks:

Nigeria is 48, have we reach the promise land or yet to?

Does it look like it?

SeanT21:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Damn FOOL!!!

Haha, this is basically what the bailout is, an epic scam, the mother of all 419!

omoge:

a robot MC is in the making.  ori, na you be the winch wey wan kill Obama eh?

so OB does not have money to access good healthcare? Palin is just too extreme. Our troops are dying in a stupid war set up by GB and mommy said it is God's war. please the thot of Palin in that place is scary.

I'm not saying that he doesn't, but he has about the same chance of dying unexpectedly as McCain, or anyone else for that matter. Yes, people are dying in a war, but neither side has a (solid) plan as to reducing or eliminating troops from Iraq. McCain wants to pursue Iran, and Obama, if I recall correctly, wants to pursue Pakistan. Basically, if I am to choose between the two, I am choosing a war in either of these countries. I am choosing where troops want to die. We dug ourselves into a huge mess, and both are bending to the pressure to keep the fights going. The thought of Palin doesn't scare me as much as it does others. If anything, the cabinet, the house, and the senate is probably going to regulate her behavior, and, therefore, I don't see her as much as a threat. I guess what I am trying to say is that the president does not really run the show, as it is a combined effort of everybody in washington. I want my vote to not simply put a band-aid over a serious problem, but to fix the problem of washington from the inside. This goes way beyond the face that represents the US every four years.

McCain's health appears to be a hot topic amongst people. Being 70+ is not a huge deal these days. As far as we know, McCain could live to be 90+, he certainly has the means to access good health care. At the same, Obama, if elected, could die of natural causes at 50. (It's not completely out of the question, as black people tend to have "lower" life-expectancies.) We don't know for sure who's going to live or die, so all this talk about health doesn't make much sense. Besides, if Bush went 8 years without destroying the world, then I think Palin would handle things just fine (compared to Bush), that is, if she had to assume the presidency for any reason.

There really isn't a difference between either (popular) candidate. America != the world, so I'm sure the rest of the world will be fine. I'm just going to take my attention off the freak show that is the presidential campaign, and focus on who gets into local government, that and third parties. If these two are the best America can do, then there isn't much hope left for the country. . .

I don't know. . . It looked like a tie to me.

http://www.beatsandbombs.com/2008/10/01/8-raunchiest-rap-songs-kids-love-to-sing/

Enjoy.

The short answer: Not yet.

DEAR AMERICAN:

THIS LETTER MIGHT COME TO YOU AS A SURPRISE SINCE WE HAVE NOT KNOWN OURSELVES BEFORE.

MY NAME IS HENRY PAULSON, AND I AM MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY OF THE REPUBLIC OF AMERICA. IT IS WITH BELIEF AND TRUST THAT I SEND YOU THIS OBVIOUS AND SENSITIVE BUSINESS PROPOSAL TO ENABLE ME AND MY COLLEAGUES REMIT THE SUM OF USD$700 BILLION (SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS ONLY) INTO YOUR ACCOUNT. HOWEVER, I WOULD WISH TO RECEIVE YOUR PERSONAL ASSURANCE THAT YOU WOULD NOT SIT ON THE MONEY WHEN IT GOES INTO YOUR ACCOUNT. MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU KEEP CONFIDENTIAL THIS TRANSACTION, IN ORDER NOT TO TARNISH THE CONFIDENCE REPOSE IN THE OFFICIALS INVOLVED IN THIS TRANSACTION.

MY COUNTRY HAS HAD A CRISIS THAT HAS CAUSED THE IMMEDIATE NEED FOR LARGE TRANSFER OF FUNDS OF 700 BILLION DOLLARS US. IF YOU WOULD ASSIST ME IN THIS TRANSFER, IT WOULD BE MOST PROFITABLE TO YOU.

I AM WORKING WITH MR. PHIL GRAMM, LOBBYIST FOR UBS, WHO WILL BE MY REPLACEMENT AS MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY IN JANUARY. AS A SENATOR, YOU MAY KNOW HIM AS THE LEADER OF THE AMERICAN BANKING DEREGULATION MOVEMENT IN THE 1990S.

THIS TRANSACTION IS GUARANTEED 100% SAFE. NOW WE HAVE FINANCIALLY AGREED, MY COLLEAGUE AND I TO ARRANGE WITH YOU AS A RELIABLE PARTNER WHO WILL ASSIST US BY CLAIMING THIS $700 BILLION. OUR SUCCESS WILL DEPEND GREATLY ON YOUR READINESS AND WILLINGNESS TO BE STRAIGHTFORWARD, SINCERE AND RELIABLE ALL THROUGH THIS TRANSACTION. I AM HOPING THAT YOU WILL NOT DISAPPOINT ME NOW OR IN THE FUTURE.

THIS IS A MATTER OF GREAT URGENCY BECAUSE WE NEED THE FUNDS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. WE CANNOT DIRECTLY TRANSFER THESE FUNDS IN THE NAMES OF OUR CLOSE FRIENDS BECAUSE BY LAW WE ARE PRECLUDED FROM DIRECTLY CLAIMING ANY OF THIS MONEY OURSELVES WHILE IN SERVICE. WE ARE ALSO CONSTANTLY UNDER SURVEILLANCE. MY FAMILY LAWYER ADVISED ME THAT I SHOULD LOOK FOR A RELIABLE AND TRUSTWORTHY PERSON LIKE YOU WHO WILL ACT AS OUR AGENT SO THE FUNDS CAN BE TRANSFERRED.

ON RECEIPT OF THIS MAIL, REACH ME IF YOU ARE WILLING TO DO THIS WITH ME. PLEASE REPLY WITH YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AND ALL OF YOUR BANK ACCOUNT, IRA AND COLLEGE FUND ACCOUNT NUMBERS AND THOSE OF YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN AND GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN TO WALLSTREETBAILOUT@TREASURY.GOV SO THAT WE MAY TRANSFER YOUR COMMISSION FOR THIS TRANSACTION. AFTER I RECEIVE THAT INFORMATION, I WILL IN TURN RESPOND WITH DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT SAFEGUARDS THAT WILL BE USED TO PROTECT THE FUNDS AND GIVE YOU FURTHER DETAILS ON MODALITIES TO ENSURE A HITCH-FREE TRANSFER.

YOURS FAITHFULLY MINISTER OF TREASURY PAULSON

*note: Caps lock intentional for effect, original by Midwesterner in NYC*

Sorry to bring this topic back up, but I've been away for a while. It's good to see that others have started to look past the (extremely biased) information given to them, and come to see the reality of the black community, the part of it that's not constantly thrown in our faces by the popular media.

chika98:

What is wrong with people on this site murdering the English language? Something in the water?

I was totally waiting for someone to say that, haha.

motun_rayo:

Hillary was out of the race long time ago. . . . .and Obama, McCain, and third parties are fighting to screw over the free world for another four years

Fixed that for you

airegin:

I understand your plight my brother. By contributing on forums like this can only bring one thing which is awareness. Let’s talk about it; you never know who will be moved by your constructive response; so therefore we all don’t have to shut up if we’re not doing something today. Only united can we free…only with courage can we liberated our people from Hugo Chavez.

I like that. Even if posters on this forum don't like what you have to say, you've already said it. Your words are already out in the open, ready to inspire, or, at least, raise awareness. I say keep posting if you feel that you have something constructive and insightful.

Yeah, it's a bit late.

airegin:

Delivering Nigeria out of its total outcry has to be a collective, leaving it to the government will not do it at all. The Awareness has to be there…people (everybody) have to understand and accept that there is something wrong with our dear country, then together as a country we can figure out how to elevate our economy. Until we realize what the problem is as a team…then we can move on to the next stage. We can then create certain policy that will combat/reduce/eliminate our so called barriers; where nobody will be above the law, people will be held accountable for their specific actions. People shall be patriotic enough not to get caught up in any form of corruption and also be bold enough to report any form of injustice that might plaque our surroundings. We shall speak as one (Nigerian) and not as tribes.

Everybody keeps saying, it’s going to take a lot of work…and I’m pretty sure we all know that. But where do we start? How do we start?

Good point. Knowing where and how to start is the largest obstacle that has to be overcome. A good suggestion would be for people who are successful here to contribute in a positive manner back home. I'm not talking about just sending money. Let us bring what we learned from abroad, our education, our worldview, our outlook on the issues going on. We will have to teach the people about our situation, making them more aware. We will have to teach them that waiting for a leader is not going to work. We have to show, by example, that the only ones who can help us are ourselves, and the power to change begins not with the government, but with the people. Eventually, people will see the ones who come back, and learn from them directly or by example, becoming empowered themselves. If it is done right, give it a generation or two, and Nigerians would slowly begin to think as one people, with all tribal issues being secondary. Eventually, the role of government will get smaller and smaller, as the people get more knowledgeable. What's left of the government will eventually be held accountable for everything they do, by a more empowered Nigerian people.

It can all start now, but we need for us abroad to realize what we have to do. As long as we ignore this and focus on issues that shouldn't be important to us, no progress will be made at all.

I don't think hostility means what you think it does. Anyway, your opinion is yours. The only reason this thread continues is because I refuse to be silent.


*in before 10 more posts discussing the definition of hostility*

lucabrasi:

i totally agree with you,we nigerians especially are very big on the media sound bites and the solutions formular for a better nigeia,yet when it comes to being pro actively doing our bit,thats when we withdraw into our shells or side step the issue by blaming the government and the usual mantra of"there is economic decay and nothing will work"
i this agree totally with that,i can name 10 20smth year olds who schooled abroad and are taking it upon themselves to change the status quo,olisa agbakoba's daughter is doing a fantastic job with her sister amongst others that i personally know and its working, the day the average nigerian either literate or illeterate stops the buck passing and actually does something,things will start to change,for all of pat utomi's many speeches and what not,i don't see him using his wealth or connections to set up a boys club or adopt a couple of children and send them to school,its all speeches,speeches same goes for the rest of the moral crusaders who are all talk

It will take work, and the ones willing to do it will do so, but you must find and encourage anyone willing to bring change to the status quo. The youth sees that things need to be different, so the best bet is working with them. Anyone else is a lost cause.

Kobojunkie:

From where I sit,   you did less of offering an alternative but more of bashing people for having an opinion different from yours. How does telling people that other races are guilty of whining, to some extent, equate to offering an alternative view in this particular situation?

I did it to show that that Black Americans are not the only group guilty of doing so, as the topic infers. If one wants to do that, it would make sense to collect data from not just other races, but every constituent of such races for comparison. Otherwise, saying so would just be a baseless generalization, and in bad taste. I state what I think about the issue with data supporting it. It may not be your style or your liking, but it has worked for me personally, academically, and professionally. This different approach would allow better understanding of the subject, sort of like looking at a piece, not by itself, but as a part of a larger puzzle. I am being bashed for not carrying a hive mentality, not going along with the status quo. Anything that is different is usually met with hostility. I expected, and received such. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. We can go back and forth about this, but my opinions will remain the same, and so will yours.

. . .And I give my answer as well. My aim is to offer an alternative point of view, not impose it on others, as I see you trying (and failed) to do.

It's a free country(or internet?), do as you wish with your time.

Kobojunkie:

I am also a student of science and I know that one of the main rules is never to make baseless assumptions of others or ideas based on your assumed understanding of what is posted. In your case, you claim to have super powers to read IN BETWEEN THE LINES instead of reading posts AS IS. If you have to, you make sure you specify that your claim is assumed.

I like where this thread is going. I thought we discussed this before. Now instead of focusing on the topic, we pick little things to argue about like children. That's OK, if it makes you feel comfortable with yourself. However, I won't play that game. Let's stay on topic. (. . .Or are you going to make fun of this statement on your next post?)

Kobojunkie:

Never take anything for face value?  Not everyone is that paranoid so what I said still stands. Going around applying it where it is not needed is somewhat rude.  Stop trying to read "people's minds". If you think the poster means something else, ask, not assume you have the person all figured out when 99% of the time that is not the case.

Nobody is trying to read minds. I'm a science student, not a witch. Again, calm down. No juju here. That being said, everything I said also stands. Making baseless generalizations are also somewhat rude, but I'm not going to judge you for it. If the person I was talking to wants to reply to my original statement, and challenge it, let him/her do it, as they can speak for themselves.

Kobojunkie:

JEEZZ,  I am again implicitly referring to myself when explicitly my post is not referring to attacks on self ??  Like I mentioned earlier,  try to accept people actually post what they mean. Reading extra meanings into statements only shows you are not a good debater. You may somehow believe you are psychic but leave the mind reading at home when visiting forums. I happen to be one of those who detest engaging folks who believe they have mind-reading abilities.

Calm down, Kobo. I know what a debate is, and this (as I have stated many times before, or have I?) is not one. It never was. (Also: As for the extra meanings bit, never take anything for face value. I learned that one back home.)

Kobojunkie:

Where in my post there did I state you attacked me? Please read posts as is, for pete's sake.

. . .If a person does not explicitly state THIS, please do not attack that person claiming the person said. . .

Here.

Last post before mine. Clearly, you are implicitly referring to yourself, as well as others in this thread. If this is not the case, I'll fix my post.

Also, people who tend to repeat the same things twice tend to not have anything new to bring to the argument. It defeats any kind of reasoning and logic.

[b]Nigerians whining about Nigeria is not in anyway related to the case of African Americans in America. I am sorry. It does not work. [/b]It is like trying to connect two unrelated issues. It never works. Even people in the black community would tell you that it is clear there is a problem in the community that needs to be dealt with. It may exist to some degree in other communities but the fact that it is prevalent in the black community means it is a serious problem and needs to be dealt with instead of swept under the rug because it exists to some degree in other communities.

Yes it is, you're just lying to yourself by saying otherwise. Just as there is a problem with the Black Community in America, there are glaring problems with Nigeria, and they are more similar than you want to think. It's all related, you just don't want to see it.

AIDS is highest in the black community in america. Should we say because there are some AIDS cases in the white community or the hispanic community, then there is no AIDs epidemic in the black community??

You could, but you would be wrong. AIDS prevalence in the black community is a big problem. However, one can still infer from your argument that this somehow makes Black Americans the lowest common denominator, as far as demographics. Now, that being said, let's talk about AIDS, now that you brought it up. The Black community in America is not just composed of persons that descended from enslaved Blacks, but also African immigrants. African Immigrants only make up about 2% or the black population (~621,000 people according to Wikipedia, ugh), but that's not important at the moment. Take a look at this:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/104380.php
http://www.thebody.com/content/legal/art19429.html

What is important is that for states that separate statistics between Black Americans and African-born blacks, data shows that AIDS prevalence of African-born Blacks range from statistically similar (similar, as in differences are not significantly different) (Medical News Today), to greater than that of Black Americans (thebody.com). More sources will be added as I find new ones.

---

Aside: Has anyone wondered why Nigerians, or African immigrants, for that matter, seem more well-off than Black Americans? It's possibly due to our very small population in the US, the small population of driven and intelligent people. Thinkers, who leave the continent, and for the most part, never go back to contribute what they have gained. (Something we call brain-drain). Of course the most of us study the sciences, or engineering, and are successful in life. Now, imagine if every one of us went back to stay, bringing our success with us. If each and every African-born American went back to the continent, we will be but a small minority of successful people, compared to the total population, just as small as the minority of successful black Americans compared to the total population of Black America. End Aside.

---

AIDS is not isolated to the Black community. While it may be disproportionately high, compared to other groups, Africans are catching up, if not already exceeding this rate. This is not only the case in North America, but in the EU, as well. I guess what I am trying to say is that African-born blacks, according to multiple sources, are contributing to this epidemic. However, there aren't any people pointing fingers at them. (Why, oh why, could that be?)

Why do I bring this up? While every ethnicity/race has their own issues with AIDS, African AIDS prevalence in the US, including Nigerians, are becoming just as big as, if not surpassing, the rate of that of Black Americans. Does that mean that the AIDS in Black America is not important? No, not at all. AIDS is a big issue that can't be ignored, but don't forget that, while you are pointing fingers, us infallible Nigerians are getting infected at a similar rate. The next time you bring up AIDS in such a discussion, make sure to bring that up.

Let's also not forget that, since you're basing part of your arguments on AIDS now, that Africa accounts for 68.8% of the world's total HIV/AIDS cases. http://www.avert.org/worlstatinfo.htm (Just throwing that in there for no apparent reason, sort of like this entire AIDS discussion that you brought up)

Of course we know the cause of the problem, but that wasn't the purpose of this thread at all. We all know that Black Americans are an easy target to poke fun at, a scapegoat of sorts. That's why we get behind our keyboards and type out our frustrations with them until our fingers bleed, ignorant of the fact that, statistically, we have the same problem, if not a bigger one. Throughout history, Black Americans have dealt with many issues. Black Americans have, and will, regardless of people who tend to always find media attention, deal with them. (Especially with AIDS) Don't worry, they will be fine. What is left, is us getting off our high horses and actually dealing with our own problems that we are ignoring.

Kobojunkie:

I am sorry but you do not inject your own meaning into statements and expect people to agree that you are right. That happens to be one of my pet peeves. If a person does not explicitly state THIS, please do not attack that person claiming the person said THIS. You have no idea how much I hate it when people do that.  No one on this particular thread has made such a claim as the one you accuse them of. Why condemn them for such?

After reading the rest of your response, I think it best to let you continue as you want to cause you seem to be arguing from an emotional point and not from a rational angle here.  If you want to continue analysing this issue as you continue to, then I would rather step off at this point cause this pattern seems too familiar at this point. Reminds me so much of debates I have had with Nigerians on problems in Nigeria, eg Nigerian educational system, only to have these persons try to tell me there are also problems in the American school system and so for some reason that justifies the state of education in public schools in Nigeria.  I see it as arguing blindly. It ain't going to get me or anyone close to any solution or resolution so I bounce at this point.

I couldn't care less if people agreed with me or not, honestly, I've tried to. My only objective is to offer another side to the story, or anything that will provoke some form of thought.

That being said, get over yourself, it's safe here. Nobody is attacking you. I stated my position, and actually provided additional information to back it, which is more than one can say for other discussions here. It may or may not be to your liking, but this is how a debate works(which, this is not), and you can't get any more rational than that. If you don't like it, you don't have to. It is one thing to accuse someone of making an emotionally charged statement (while ignoring the existence of everything within that proves otherwise). It is another thing to do so, being emotionally charged yourself.

Don't let me get to your pet peeves. If you feel that what I am saying is in error, give me something so that, when I see it, I can say "ow wow, I did not see this, you were right." I may not immediately reply. I will probably be offline, maybe for days, getting better understanding of the topic at hand, with the little free time I have. I will back down if, and only if, I cannot find anything to counter such findings. You will then get your cookie, your pat in the back, and an enthusiastic thumbs-up. I will move on to a different discussion a stronger and more knowledgeable person. This is rationality at it's rawest and most unforgiving state. I am in the sciences, and analyzing every bit of detail is what I do, as that is part of the scientific method. As long as such details exist, I will never argue blindly.

As much as you may not like it, when you argue about something, everything in the least way associated with it can and will come into play. Everything is fair game. I'm not here for your acceptance, or anyone Else's for that matter. I am here, as well as any other place I am, to minimize, in the best way I can, the flow of misinformation, which, unfortunately, is very prevalent.

Everyone wants a resolution, but unfortunately, you cannot find a solution if you cannot find the cause of the problem, just as you cannot cure someone's sickness if you misdiagnose the symptoms.

Take this however as you want,

Peace.