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See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure - Car Talk - Nairaland

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See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by adanny01(m): 8:40pm On Feb 08, 2021
Honda Accord in particular has always had the Double wishbone front suspension which is known for better performance while Toyota Camry always had the Macpherson suspension which is known to be reliable and cheaper to build.

We see more failure in the Double wishbone suspension in general not because it has a design flaw but because of what am about to show you.

The issue is weight, which is a force that every suspension system must transmit safely to the road surface.

The medium of transmission of weight of the car to the ground is always through the strut or shock absorber. This force is shown with the first arrows on both types of suspension in the picture below.

The path for this force is different for the 2 suspensions.

The Macpherson suspension has the strut bolted to the hub which means the weight is transmitted from strut>hub>wheel>road.

The double wishbone suspension however transmits the weight from strut>lower control arm>ball joint>hub>wheel>road.

Looking at the fact that the ball joint is a critical weight bearing part in the double wishbone suspension but not in the MacPherson suspension, we understand why an inferior quality ball joint may not withstand the stress for long. Also looking at the ball joint in the 2 types of suspension, you will notice that the ball joint in a Double wíshbone suspension is quite larger to a Macpherson suspension ball joint, a design meant to accommodate more stress.

When next you see a Honda Accord with the "K-Leg", just just know that it is not a Honda design flaw, it is a Double wíshbone suspension system weak point that the particular owner is responsible for.

Honda uses the Macpherson suspension in the Civic while Toyota uses the Double wíshbone suspension in their SUVs such as Land cruiser, Prado, Hilux etc

9 Likes 2 Shares

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by dawnomike(m): 9:18pm On Feb 08, 2021
That honda,'s wishbone is not for Nigeria..

2 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by adanny01(m): 9:22pm On Feb 08, 2021
dawnomike:
That honda,'s wishbone is not for Nigeria..

Is Hilux made for Nigeria?

2 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by Ofemmanu1: 9:39pm On Feb 08, 2021
I love my Honda

15 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by GAZZUZZ(m): 10:40pm On Feb 08, 2021
adanny01:


Is Hilux made for Nigeria?

Hehehehe...
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by ZIMDRILL(m): 11:43pm On Feb 08, 2021
adanny01:
Honda Accord in particular has always had the Double wishbone front suspension which is known for better performance while Toyota Camry always had the Macpherson suspension which is known to be reliable and cheaper to build.

We see more failure in the Double wishbone suspension in general not because it has a design flaw but because of what am about to show you.

The issue is weight, which is a force that every suspension system must transmit safely to the road surface.

The medium of transmission of weight of the car to the ground is always through the strut or shock absorber. This force is shown with the first arrows on both types of suspension in the picture below.

The path for this force is different for the 2 suspensions.

The Macpherson suspension has the strut bolted to the hub which means the weight is transmitted from strut>hub>wheel>road.

The double wishbone suspension however transmits the weight from strut>lower control arm>ball joint>hub>wheel>road.

Looking at the fact that the ball joint is a critical weight bearing part in the double wishbone suspension but not in the MacPherson suspension, we understand why an inferior quality ball joint may not withstand the stress for long. Also looking at the ball joint in the 2 types of suspension, you will notice that the ball joint in a Double wíshbone suspension is quite larger to a Macpherson suspension ball joint, a design meant to accommodate more stress.

When next you see a Honda Accord with the "K-Leg", just just know that it is not a Honda design flaw, it is a Double wíshbone suspension system weak point that the particular owner is responsible for.

Honda uses the Macpherson suspension in the Civic while Toyota uses the Double wíshbone suspension in their SUVs such as Land cruiser, Prado, Hilux etc

it has nothing with do with weight but just general poor maintaince ball joints do wear and tear

problem with people is that they ignore the signs of a worn out ball joint

do you really think honda can not figure weight issue ? they spent millions on research they even have an F1 team

4 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by an0daGuy: 11:48pm On Feb 08, 2021
I understand the 2008 model and above accords don’t have this ball joint issue but they still maintain the double wishbone suspension setup. So what changed?

4 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by weyreypey: 4:10am On Feb 09, 2021
adanny01:
Honda Accord in particular has always had the Double wishbone front suspension which is known for better performance while Toyota Camry always had the Macpherson suspension which is known to be reliable and cheaper to build.

We see more failure in the Double wishbone suspension in general not because it has a design flaw but because of what am about to show you.

The issue is weight, which is a force that every suspension system must transmit safely to the road surface.

The medium of transmission of weight of the car to the ground is always through the strut or shock absorber. This force is shown with the first arrows on both types of suspension in the picture below.

The path for this force is different for the 2 suspensions.

The Macpherson suspension has the strut bolted to the hub which means the weight is transmitted from strut>hub>wheel>road.

The double wishbone suspension however transmits the weight from strut>lower control arm>ball joint>hub>wheel>road.

Looking at the fact that the ball joint is a critical weight bearing part in the double wishbone suspension but not in the MacPherson suspension, we understand why an inferior quality ball joint may not withstand the stress for long. Also looking at the ball joint in the 2 types of suspension, you will notice that the ball joint in a Double wíshbone suspension is quite larger to a Macpherson suspension ball joint, a design meant to accommodate more stress.

When next you see a Honda Accord with the "K-Leg", just just know that it is not a Honda design flaw, it is a Double wíshbone suspension system weak point that the particular owner is responsible for.

Honda uses the Macpherson suspension in the Civic while Toyota uses the Double wíshbone suspension in their SUVs such as Land cruiser, Prado, Hilux etc
The w124 w210 Mercedes models use the double wishbone set up. Say something else

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by dicksonadams(m): 8:30am On Feb 09, 2021
adanny01:
Honda Accord in particular has always had the Double wishbone front suspension which is known for better performance while Toyota Camry always had the Macpherson suspension which is known to be reliable and cheaper to build.

We see more failure in the Double wishbone suspension in general not because it has a design flaw but because of what am about to show you.

The issue is weight, which is a force that every suspension system must transmit safely to the road surface.

The medium of transmission of weight of the car to the ground is always through the strut or shock absorber. This force is shown with the first arrows on both types of suspension in the picture below.

The path for this force is different for the 2 suspensions.

The Macpherson suspension has the strut bolted to the hub which means the weight is transmitted from strut>hub>wheel>road.

The double wishbone suspension however transmits the weight from strut>lower control arm>ball joint>hub>wheel>road.

Looking at the fact that the ball joint is a critical weight bearing part in the double wishbone suspension but not in the MacPherson suspension, we understand why an inferior quality ball joint may not withstand the stress for long. Also looking at the ball joint in the 2 types of suspension, you will notice that the ball joint in a Double wíshbone suspension is quite larger to a Macpherson suspension ball joint, a design meant to accommodate more stress.

When next you see a Honda Accord with the "K-Leg", just just know that it is not a Honda design flaw, it is a Double wíshbone suspension system weak point that the particular owner is responsible for.

Honda uses the Macpherson suspension in the Civic while Toyota uses the Double wíshbone suspension in their SUVs such as Land cruiser, Prado, Hilux etc

But don't any other car brand use the same double wishbone setup, why ain't the problem rampant with them too

3 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by adanny01(m): 9:25am On Feb 09, 2021
ZIMDRILL:


it has nothing with do with weight but just general poor maintaince ball joints do wear and tear

problem with people is that they ignore the signs of a worn out ball joint

do you really think honda can not figure weight issue ? they spent millions on research they even have an F1 team

Ball joint failure is not a general lack of maintenance issue. There are three ways the ball joint paints

1 Ball stud shearing: this never happens to an OEM ball joint. Further more, it never happens even with a low grade ball joint in a Macpherson suspension. When a ball joint fails this way, the steel the ball joint itself is made of is low grade meaning the ball joint is of low quality. Over 50% of failure we see is this type of owners who replaced their ball joints with a substandard replacement ball joint. This failure occurs most times without a sign so the car can be in good condition and kaboom, you are stuck.

2 Ball pull out: this is entirely maintenance related and their are warning signs. There is no excuse for this failure.

3 Nut or stud stripped thread: this is a totally preventable failure. To prevent is by using cotter pin which our mechanics deliberately remove and never put back. Funny enough, I have seen ball joints without cotter pin holes, your guess is as good as mine.

The point of the thread is that a factor for the detoriation and subsequent failure is the weight bearing by the ball joint in a Double wíshbone system. Am sure you have never seen failure 1 and 3 on a Macpherson suspension, that's because it bears far less axial weight.

4 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by adanny01(m): 9:33am On Feb 09, 2021
an0daGuy:
I understand the 2008 model and above accords don’t have this ball joint issue but they still maintain the double wishbone suspension setup. So what changed?

To understand why you will need to see the ball joint of pre 2008 ball joint and compare with the post 2008.

The 2008 Accord did increase in size and weight, the suspension parts also increased in size considerably.

The 2008 ball joint is quite bigger in size, this increased size takes more stress and strain.

8 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by adanny01(m): 10:16am On Feb 09, 2021
dicksonadams:


But don't any other car brand use the same double wishbone setup, why ain't the problem rampant with them too

The first thing you will notice is, cars in the class of the Accord don't use the Double wíshbone suspension. Those that used to went back to Macpherson eg Benz. Also, the usage of the double wíshbone is limited to performance cars and larger wheel vehicles such as trucks and SUVs.

For their own reasons, Honda has always moved in favour of driving experience at the detriment of reliability hence its continued use of Double wíshbone.

We all know the class of people who get the Honda in Nigeria as used cars are the low income earners, even lower than the Toyota users except for those who naturally prefer the Honda like me obviously. Of course you won't see a brand new Honda with a failed ball joint, it comes with the age of the vehicle and in Nigeria our maintenance abilities, our mechanics and OEM parts availability. Buy a brand new Honda, replace the ball joint with the chinko we have available, you will have the first brand new car to fail in the middle of the road.

First generation Toyota Tacoma and third generation 4runner are notorious for this problem, other generations of the same cars not so much.

Even the Accord, if you do the right thing it won't happen. People say 2008 Accord doesn't pull, I have seen it pull more than once.

The point is that a double wíshbone suspension comes with that disadvantage from factory, it is the user that prevents it from happening. Just like forced induction engines come with a downside right from factory, the user is still responsible for how long the engine runs.

Secondly, how rampant, is a statistical factor, the next question is how rampant is Toyota Tacoma to Honda Accord? Other statistical factors will broaden the scope, like what class of people buy these cars. The frequency of the failure is directly proportional to the frequency of the car itself and the type of people who use it.

weyreypey:

The w124 w210 Mercedes models use the double wishbone set up. Say something else

In those days, that was a very common sight on these cars

9 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by GreekDon: 12:19pm On Feb 09, 2021
adanny01:


To understand why you will need to see the ball joint of pre 2008 ball joint and compare with the post 2008.

The 2008 Accord did increase in size and weight, the suspension parts also increased in size considerably.

The 2008 ball joint is quite bigger in size, this increased size takes more stress and strain.

You are right. The 8th generation accord (2008-2012) uses the same suspension set up with early models. Good thing with the 2008 model is that they are bigger and more sturdy. However, Honda changed this from the 9th generation( 2013 to 2017). Infact, I have my eyes on those models especially 2016/2017. They are beauty to behold and will never have ball joint failures.

2 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by GreekDon: 12:27pm On Feb 09, 2021
GreekDon:


You are right. The 8th generation accord (2008-2012) uses the same suspension set up with early models. Good thing with the 2008 model is that they are bigger and more sturdy. However, Honda changed this from the 9th generation( 2013 to 2017). Infact, I have my eyes on those models especially 2016/2017. They are beauty to behold and will never have ball joint failures.

The 4plug 9th generation accords with CVT gets impressive gas mileage.(27 city and 36 highway). That's almost like what you get on a Corolla, with added advantage of 185hp responsive engine.

Abeg Gazzuzz, any 2013-2017 (i4) accord arriving anytime soon?

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by GAZZUZZ(m): 12:39pm On Feb 09, 2021
GreekDon:


The 4plug 9th generation accords with CVT gets impressive gas mileage.(27 city and 36 highway). That's almost like what you get on a Corolla, with added advantage of 185hp responsive engine.

Abeg Gazzuzz, any 2013-2017 (i4) accord arriving anytime soon?

Unless you wan do preorder. Honda no de move market like that
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by adanny01(m): 1:27pm On Feb 09, 2021
GreekDon:


You are right. The 8th generation accord (2008-2012) uses the same suspension set up with early models. Good thing with the 2008 model is that they are bigger and more sturdy. However, Honda changed this from the 9th generation( 2013 to 2017). Infact, I have my eyes on those models especially 2016/2017. They are beauty to behold and will never have ball joint failures.

Yes from the parts I have seen, the 9th generation Accord is a Macpherson suspension.
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by 9icetoo(m): 2:03pm On Feb 09, 2021
weyreypey:

The w124 w210 Mercedes models use the double wishbone set up. Say something else
Lord, you know I have tried.

5 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by Nobody: 2:07pm On Feb 12, 2021
GreekDon:


You are right. The 8th generation accord (2008-2012) uses the same suspension set up with early models. Good thing with the 2008 model is that they are bigger and more sturdy. However, Honda changed this from the 9th generation( 2013 to 2017). Infact, I have my eyes on those models especially 2016/2017. They are beauty to behold and will never have ball joint failures.

I am also seriously considering the V6 touring but this our PHC dey fear me. I no get money for ransom.

Might be forced to go for something less catchy and flashy.
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by GreekDon: 3:02pm On Feb 12, 2021
rationalmind:


I am also seriously considering the V6 touring but this our PHC dey fear me. I no get money for ransom.

Might be forced to go for something less catchy and flashy.


Lol. I understand. But I don't see it as overly flashy. Just a well built vehicle for the serious minded folks.

1 Like

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by Nobody: 3:15pm On Feb 12, 2021
GreekDon:


Lol. I understand. But I don't see it as overly flashy. Just a well built vehicle for the serious minded folks.

Yeah, not overly flashy but still quite flashy especially the 16+ model. That vehicle is a head turner. Even looks much better than the Tlx which is supposedly the more luxurious version.
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by ejodachi: 8:15am On Feb 13, 2021
Please which model of honda civic does not have ball joint failure
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by Piyke: 10:06pm On Mar 18, 2021
adanny01:


Yes from the parts I have seen, the 9th generation Accord is a Macpherson suspension.

And the ride is not the same. The 'feel' of the road is better with the 7th gen.
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by Gadgetmobil(m): 1:52pm On Mar 20, 2021
In all this
I didn't see how best to use or fix the problem.
I still prefer Honda, so how best can it be prevented

1 Like

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by Inception(m): 5:11pm On Mar 20, 2021
GreekDon:


The 4plug 9th generation accords with CVT gets impressive gas mileage.(27 city and 36 highway). That's almost like what you get on a Corolla, with added advantage of 185hp responsive engine.

Abeg Gazzuzz, any 2013-2017 (i4) accord arriving anytime soon?


Shhh... Please don't spill this secret abeg... Before price will start shooting up

3 Likes

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by Eldemmi(m): 9:34pm On Mar 20, 2021
Gadgetmobil:
In all this
I didn't see how best to use or fix the problem.
I still prefer Honda, so how best can it be prevented

1.use brand new OEM ball joints not chinko ones.

2.if you can't afford the brand new OEM find a good Honda part seller that will sell used originalOEM ball joints to you ,not naija rebuilt ones.

3. as a regular maintenance check your suspension system routinely..

PS : I drive Accord 05 I love the driving experience compare to Toyota Camry of same year.. she gives me joy, very dependable, low cost of spare parts and parts don't break often.

1 Like

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by Kewtt: 6:37am On Mar 21, 2021
Eldemmi:


1.use brand new OEM ball joints not chinko ones.

2.if you can't afford the brand new OEM find a good Honda part seller that will sell used originalOEM ball joints to you ,not naija rebuilt ones.

3. as a regular maintenance check your suspension system routinely..

PS : I drive Accord 05 I love the driving experience compare to Toyota Camry of same year.. she gives me joy, very dependable, low cost of spare parts and parts don't break often.
What about the transmission failure issues
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by Eldemmi(m): 12:26pm On Mar 21, 2021
Kewtt:

What about the transmission failure issues

common among v6 variants
use only original Honda DW1 ATF , the four plug 7th generation Accord transmission will serve you well as long as you use recommended fluid.

1 Like

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by AstroG: 12:07am On Mar 27, 2021
Please what are the things to look out for when buying 2006 Honda Accord asides the interior (Engine and Ball joints respectively)
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by adanny01(m): 7:29am On Mar 27, 2021
AstroG:
Please what are the things to look out for when buying 2006 Honda Accord asides the interior (Engine and Ball joints respectively)

My reply is not specifically to 2006 Honda Accord.

The 3 main things that attract me to any car is price, body and interior condition. These can be seen in pictures with an advertised car.

What turns me off is rust and bad electrical wiring.

A cheap 500k 2006 Accord with a perfect body but a dead engine and transmission is a good buy. If it's rust, there is no amount of money that will make me buy it unless it's free.

Electrical problems are not as easy to fix as replacing an engine or transmission or any suspension part for that matter.

Body problems also requires a skilled panel beater. Body problems that has affected chassis or suspension mounting positions is a turn off. I also prefer body problems where buying door, bonnet, trunk will easily resolve the problem.

The single line key to buying a car is price and estimating repairs

1 Like

Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by AstroG: 7:42am On Mar 27, 2021
adanny01:


My reply is not specifically to 2006 Honda Accord.

The 3 main things that attract me to any car is price, body and interior condition. These can be seen in pictures with an advertised car.

What turns me off is rust and bad electrical wiring.

A cheap 500k 2006 Accord with a perfect body but a dead engine and transmission is a good buy. If it's rust, there is no amount of money that will make me buy it unless it's free.

Electrical problems are not as easy to fix as replacing an engine or transmission or any suspension part for that matter.

Body problems also requires a skilled panel beater. Body problems that has affected chassis or suspension mounting positions is a turn off. I also prefer body problems where buying door, bonnet, trunk will easily resolve the problem.

The single line key to buying a car is price and estimating repairs



Wow, to me I prefer the one that has very good and sound engine and gear but has bad interior and body. Cause I knw love-vendor my cars to my taste b4 I start using them
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by adanny01(m): 9:37am On Mar 27, 2021
AstroG:




Wow, to me I prefer the one that has very good and sound engine and gear but has bad interior and body. Cause I knw love-vendor my cars to my taste b4 I start using them

I don't even have steering wheel cover in my car. I love to see my car looking stock. I am more practical than physical.

So if a car comes with torn leather seats, I'd rather get toks seats than do upholstery. Seat covers is absolutely a no-no for me.

I'd rather have a bad engine than have torn seats or melted dashboard
Re: See Why Honda Has More Ball Joint Failure by AstroG: 3:46pm On Mar 27, 2021
adanny01:


I don't even have steering wheel cover in my car. I love to see my car looking stock. I am more practical than physical.

So if a car comes with torn leather seats, I'd rather get toks seats than do upholstery. Seat covers is absolutely a no-no for me.

I'd rather have a bad engine than have torn seats or melted dashboard



Everybody has his or her own preferences sha

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