sonmvayina:


The Torah is divine..it has the name of God in it...the new testament has none..

How can you possibly write this with a straight face?

Good morning my friend, how was your night?

Yesterday you typed this in response to my post on this particular thread and i said i'll like to leave you with misinformed Churchgoers and other religionists for the moment.
I think it's time to reveal to you the top secret that you don't know, perhaps you truly want to know!
There is just One God and Father of all creations.
All other intelligent beings take to His attributes that's why we're also gods or godlike in nature, this doesn't mean we have possess supernatural powers like our heavenly Father but we are endowed with the ability to make things better or make better things. Remember the Bible talked of a time when the earth was formless and lifeless before God began making it better and making lots and lots of better things!

This is what quantifies you and i to be called "gods" {Psalms 82:1,6} but the idea that we live on after death is false {Ecclesiastes 9:4-10} before God created us we don't exist therefore immortality is a gift He wish to pass on to creatures that's bringing Him praise and glory, as for creatures that's proving to be defaults {Deuteronomy 32:5} He had no intention of keeping them alive! Genesis 2:17, 3:19

The Bible is just like a textbook that's meant to be thoroughly studied by those who LOVE God, He purposely prepared this wonderful book to help in gathering all faithful, humble and obedient humans throughout the earth under one umbrella. Since we're all intelligent creatures with different thoughts, opinions and hobbies His intention is to teach us how we can live peacefully with one another one this planet.

His first step is to gather all obedient and humble ones before exterminating rebellious ones like Satan, Adam and Eve.
Today that purpose has been fulfilled, so no matter what you're doing with those faithless Jews who consistently rejected his guidance and finally opposed his plan won't lead you nowhere.
Granted you will find individuals accepting your ideology just as Sat Guru Maharaj, Kumuyi, Adeboye, Olukoya and many more succeeded in gathering followers but never will you be able to gather faithful, loyal and obedient individuals! Luke 11:23

It's not that you guys are insincere but God has His own plan (arrangement) no matter what you're planning outside this arrangement will never work out well.

The Jews are only consoling themselves with false reasoning saying they're God's people, the moment they rejected God's gift to the entire human race (JESUS of Nazareth) God has condemned them forever. It's only those who repent and accept God's gift (Jesus) to reconcile people back to himself will be saved!

Jerusalem has remained till today not because God is still dealing with them, but due to the promise He made for His faithful and loyal servants of ancient times that city will never be wiped out. Satan is working tirelessly to erase that city from the world's map so that everything written in the Bible might sound like fables to the next generation. So God vowed to keep that city not because of those faithless Jews who murdered his only begotten son but because of his faithful and loyal servants like David, Hezekiah and Josiah who ruled as Kings in that same city and served Him with all their hearts!

How will it be if they're resurrection today only to find out that the city they cried bitterly for and fought with all their might to keep for Jehovah is no more?
So JEHOVAH will keep that city no matter what happens and mind you JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are in Jerusalem today anticipating the kingdom of God and ready to welcome back all those loyal servants of JEHOVAH whose graves are still kept safe till today!

All your argument against Jesus is like campaign after election, the result of Jesus' works is here today. The One big and happy global family of peace loving worshipers that noone not even your faithless Jewish friends can deny the impact of Jesus' teachings amongst JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Micah 4:1-3

Tell them to go and destroy electricity before debunking the existence of Benjamin Franklin or they should go and wipe out America before trying to debunk the existence of Christopher Columbus. JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES Organization is an undeniable proof that Jesus of Nazareth is real! Act 1:8

Thanks for your time!

sonmvayina:

Why are you running away....i know you have something to say....
Say something....anything...

McSquishi:


So it hasn’t taken place. Ok... Earlier I thought you were saying no one will read the Torah to me as present-tense.

So you do believe there will be a Messiah. And that god will send a man, that’s not at issue with you... you just don’t accept the one already sent.

The idea that god would send a regular man to save anyone in his stead actually seems more of an abomination than whatever your qualms were. And that is not at all different from his old covenant. Why would he do away with stone and replace it with stone...

You expect a literal temple to be built rather than a metaphorical temple in a physical Jerusalem... How do you pick and choose which parts of the Old Testament are not literal and which parts are not? Earlier you said certain stories in the Old Testament were not literal but meant to elucidate a point...

why would he build a physical temple which was for the officiating of priests when he says in jeremiah that every man will know him and he will place his law in our hearts and minds? What purpose would the temple serve? He says he will remember our sins no more, so why would a temple be needed as no one will need to go there to have sins forgiven? Otherwise it wouldn’t be a new covenant at all, it would be the same old one.

Anyway, this has gotten a bit away from the point: you originally said the existence of the Messiah as written in the Bible is at odds with the Old Testament and in opposition to God... you have not shown at all how that is so. You’ve only said you don’t agree with God’s method of placing life into Miriam...

The messiah as defined in judaism is a king or high preist tbat is annointed to lead the people. He is not coming to change Gods laws, any body who does that is immediately recognised as a false prophet.

That one messiah that the prophet spoke about is coming to usher in peace and end all wars and oppression. That has not happened.


We are all waiting..

Dtruthspeaker:


Like I said, I have settled all these with you and my answers then have not changed. Further, going in this direction is not the goal of this thread.

I have checked, and cant find it...please can you state them here, for the benefit of me and others viewing this thread...


Please.

McSquishi:


Jeremiah 31:31 specifically states that the new covenant is NOT like the covenant made the first time. So hopefully when you say renewal you are not suggesting that it’s an extension of that old covenant. Hopefully you mean renew as in replacement. And in that case I ask again why it needed to be replaced at all if as you said it was perfect?

But anyway, when did that renewal take place? The Bible says “the days are coming” so what date did it take place? An estimate would be fine...

It has ovbiously not happened..there is still wars and oppression in the world..

sonmvayina:


The messiah as defined in judaism is a king or high preist tbat is annointed to lead the people. He is not coming to change Gods laws, any body who does that is immediately recognised as a false prophet.

That one messiah that the prophet spoke about is coming to usher in peace and end all wars and oppression. That has not happened.


We are all waiting..

But Jesus did not change Mosaic laws, he said:
Think not that I come to destroy the law and prophets but to fulfill. To fulfill means the law points to me, I have come to continue with the story of Isreal/God relationship.

Jesus came to usher in peace but it is a gradual process. He has laid the foundation by teaching his followers the ways to achieve this peace on a global scale. Eventually this would happen in line with the Isaiah prophecy, where men no longer use swords. Jesus said he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword. The true kingdom of peace does not come from this world system, that is why my servants do not fight on my behalf, etc

He told us what to do, that is to love our enemies (strange idea but powerful), to do unto others what we want others to do to us, etc. He told the rich man to go sell all he has and give to the poor and await this kingdom of peace and harmony, etc.

McSquishi:


since you don’t believe God can create a body for himself without using the sperm of his own creation, please inform me as to whose sperm and egg were used to make the first man and woman?


If you must know which prophet God told about what he was going to do before you believe it was done then To which prophet did he announce the birth of Adam? To which prophet did he announce the birth of Moses? The arrival of Joshua?? To which prophet did he announce he would test Job?

Also, any reference i point to in order to point out the predictions of the Messiah’s arrival you will say it’s out of context, disregarding the point I told you and Yahshua himself said he came not to destroy the law and prophets but to fulfill them. So when Matthew uses the Isaiah reference of a virgin having a child it is meant to be further confirmation of scripture being fulfilled... but if you won’t accept the 30-40+ fulfillment’s then it is a pointless exercise for you to ask which prophet predicted him.

Man was created from dust of the earth + spirit of God. I said that at the beginning of this thread. God already set the law thst before a woman become pregnant , she was receive the sperm from the man at the right time and conditions.. So mary can not become pregnant without a mans sperm. Out side thst it is mythology..


So jesus, perseus, prometheus and bacchus are mythical demi gods.. Not real...the earlier you know and realise thst the better you wake up ftom the brain washing..

GeneralDae:

But Jesus did not change Mosaic laws, he said:
Think not that I come to destroy the law and prophets but to fulfill. To fulfill means the law points to me, I have come to continue with the story of Isreal/God relationship.

Jesus came to usher in peace but it is a gradual process. He has laid the foundation by teaching his followers the ways to achieve this peace on a global scale. Eventually this would happen in line with the Isaiah prophecy, where men no longer use swords. Jesus said he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword. The true kingdom of peace does not come from this world system, that is why my servants do not fight on my behalf, etc

He told us what to do, that is to love our enemies (strange idea but powerful), to do unto others what we want others to do to us, etc. He told the rich man to go sell all he has and give to the poor and await this kingdom of peace and harmony, etc.

Has it happened? It is the messiah that will usher in the era of peace.

Jesus did not achieve it, because he was not Gods annointed messiah. He was not sent by God. He was executed just like God commanded them to execute false prophet who come to turn them away from God.(the story says so)..

So jesus cant be the messiah.

sonmvayina:


Has it happened? It is the messiah that will usher in the era of peace.

Jesus did not achieve it, because he was not Gods annointed messiah. He was not sent by God. He was executed just like God commanded them to execute false prophet who come to turn them away from God.(the story says so)..

So jesus cant be the messiah.

Lol, so tell me: How would the messaiah usher in the era of peace? would he also do this by the sword?

Also it was the Romans who executed Jesus and the charge against him was that "He claimed to be King of the Jews" which to the Romans was a challenge to Ceasar's authority. The Romans would hardly care if he broke jewish laws or not and would not waste their time killing him if that was the major charge against him.

GeneralDae:

Lol, so tell me: How would the messaiah usher in the era of peace? would he also do this by the sword?

Also it was the Romans who executed Jesus and the charge against him was that "He claimed to be King of the Jews" which to the Romans was a challenge to Ceasar's authority. The Romans would hardly care if he broke jewish laws or not and would not waste their time killing him if that was the major charge against him.

According to the story, he did not achieve anything...

So why is he relevant to us or to God?

budaatum:


How can you possibly write this with a straight face?

Gods laws is universal and divine. He gave it to all of humanity. The jews accepted it and wrote it down. And taught it to themselves. They called it the torah. The igbos also accepted it and called it the omenani....

So they became God chosen people..

Gods laws is the standard for measuring everything.

sonmvayina:


According to the story, he did not achieve anything...

So why is he relevant to us or to God?

How would the messaiah acheive peace in the world?

sonmvayina:


Gods laws is universal and divine. He gave it to all of humanity. The jews accepted it and wrote it down. And taught it to themselves. They called it the torah. The igbos also accepted it and called it the omenani....

So they became God chosen people..

Gods laws is the standard for measuring everything.

The Jews got it from Moses, who learnt it from his Egyptian foster parents who wrote it on stone.

Ref:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/ancient-Egyptian-religion

budaatum:

The Torah is the result of a long process of editing (or redaction, as it is called by scholars). This means that there is no one date that one can be pointed to as the date of composition. Most scholars think that the final major redactions took place after 539 BCE when Cyrus the Great conquered the Neo-Babylonian Empire.
https://member.ancient.eu/Torah/

The books of the Christian Bible were arranged in the sequence one finds them in today to tell the story of the creation of the world by a supreme deity, the fall of man from paradise, and humanity's redemption by the Son of God but these books were not written in that sequence nor would the original authors of the Old Testament works have had that particular story in mind.
https://member.ancient.eu/bible/

..the Hebrew Bible did not begin as a single book; rather, it developed over time through the compilation of many Judean texts. The texts, though, were not always understood as divinely inspired, authoritative, holy texts; the role of Judean texts in religious expression developed between the 6th century BCE and 1st century CE.
https://member.ancient.eu/article/1139/early-judaism/

GeneralDae:

How would the messiah achieve peace in the world?

By teaching you to be peaceful and to love one another.

There will be peace in the world when you have learnt what the messiah taught.

budaatum:


By teaching you to be peaceful and to love one another.

There will be peace in the world when you have learnt what the messiah taught.

Exactly but the only other way would be to use the sword and it seems that is what some expect of Messaiah.

sonmvayina:


According to the story, he did not achieve anything...

So why is he relevant to us or to God?

Yes he did achieve a lot through his teachings, but you just have not bothered to learn so can't see the relevance and the simple fact that without Jesus the Torah would have remained the exclusive book of the chosen few Jews who would never have shared it with you.

sonmvayina:


Gods laws is universal and divine. He gave it to all of humanity. The jews accepted it and wrote it down. And taught it to themselves. They called it the torah. The igbos also accepted it and called it the omenani....

So they became God chosen people..

Gods laws is the standard for measuring everything.

And are you saying the laws and teachings of Jesus in the new testament are not God's laws ? How come only jews and Igbos accepted it? what of the Sumerians, Egyptians, Yorubas, Buddhists.
Have you heard of the 8 laws that leads to enlightenment that came from the Buddha about 2500 years ago? What disqualified these 8 laws but qualifies Igbo and Jewish laws as God's laws?

GeneralDae:

Exactly but the only other way would be to use the sword and it seems that is what some expect of Messaiah.

The only use of a sword that Christ would approve of is for you to cut off your offending hand or for you to pluck out your sinful eye.

Any other expectation is what people make up in their own heads.

GeneralDae:

And are you saying the laws and teachings of Jesus in the new testament are not God's laws ? How come only jews and Igbos accepted it? what of the Sumerians, Egyptians, Yorubas, Buddhists.
Have you heard of the 8 laws that leads to enlightenment that came from the Buddha about 2500 years ago? What disqualified these 8 laws but qualifies Igbo and Jewish laws as God's laws?

They are part of God laws...like i said, it was given to all of humanity...

Some people accept and teach it..some choose to ignore and worship idols..

budaatum:


Yes he did achieve a lot through his teachings, but you just have not bothered to learn so can't see the relevance and the simple fact that without Jesus the Torah would have remained the exclusive book of the chosen few Jews who would never have shared it with you.

God gave his laws to all of humanity...it is called the omenani in igbo...

Jesus is irrelevant to God and to man. He is just a roman creation. Focus on the creator and his laws. Anything else is idolatry..

budaatum:


The Jews got it from Moses, who learnt it from his Egyptian foster parents who wrote it on stone.

Ref:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/ancient-Egyptian-religion

This is what you get when strangers and foreigners are trying to teach you your own culture and tradition..

GeneralDae:

How would the messaiah acheive peace in the world?

By teaching and living by the laws of God. He is not changing anything in God laws. He is definately not coming to die for sins. God already gave a solutionto the problem of sin in 2nd chronicles 7:14.

He will be a king. That will be annointed. Do he is going to have a political influence..

sonmvayina:


Focus on the creator and his laws. Anything else is idolatry..

Sorry, but I have only one law:

Love one another! They that sayeth they are in the light and hateth another remaineth in darkness.

And you, my fellow human being, are my idols, because, "Inasmuch as I do good to those I see, the Gods you see not should be pleased".

The Gods that are not pleased should be murdered so you humans stop worshipping them through your hatred for one another.

sonmvayina:


This is what you get when strangers and foreigners are trying to teach you your own culture and tradition..

This is how you show your ignorance by refusing to learn that your precious Torah came out of Egypt in Africa.

budaatum:


This is how you show your ignorance by refusing to learn that your precious Torah came out of Egypt in Africa.

Exactly, there are comparisons to the Egyptian and Babylonian laws of old.
I don't know why he thinks the Mosaic laws are special.

MaxInDHouse:
Good morning my friend, how was your night?

Yesterday you typed this in response to my post on this particular thread and i said i'll like to leave you with misinformed Churchgoers and other religionists for the moment.
I think it's time to reveal to you the top secret that you don't know, perhaps you truly want to know!
There is just One God and Father of all creations.
All other intelligent beings take to His attributes that's why we're also gods or godlike in nature, this doesn't mean we have possess supernatural powers like our heavenly Father but we are endowed with the ability to make things better or make better things. Remember the Bible talked of a time when the earth was formless and lifeless before God began making it better and making lots and lots of better things!

This is what quantifies you and i to be called "gods" {Psalms 82:1,6} but the idea that we live on after death is false {Ecclesiastes 9:4-10} before God created us we don't exist therefore immortality is a gift He wish to pass on to creatures that's bringing Him praise and glory, as for creatures that's proving to be defaults {Deuteronomy 32:5} He had no intention of keeping them alive! Genesis 2:17, 3:19

The Bible is just like a textbook that's meant to be thoroughly studied by those who LOVE God, He purposely prepared this wonderful book to help in gathering all faithful, humble and obedient humans throughout the earth under one umbrella. Since we're all intelligent creatures with different thoughts, opinions and hobbies His intention is to teach us how we can live peacefully with one another one this planet.

His first step is to gather all obedient and humble ones before exterminating rebellious ones like Satan, Adam and Eve.
Today that purpose has been fulfilled, so no matter what you're doing with those faithless Jews who consistently rejected his guidance and finally opposed his plan won't lead you nowhere.
Granted you will find individuals accepting your ideology just as Sat Guru Maharaj, Kumuyi, Adeboye, Olukoya and many more succeeded in gathering followers but never will you be able to gather faithful, loyal and obedient individuals! Luke 11:23

It's not that you guys are insincere but God has His own plan (arrangement) no matter what you're planning outside this arrangement will never work out well.

The Jews are only consoling themselves with false reasoning saying they're God's people, the moment they rejected God's gift to the entire human race (JESUS of Nazareth) God has condemned them forever. It's only those who repent and accept God's gift (Jesus) to reconcile people back to himself will be saved!

Jerusalem has remained till today not because God is still dealing with them, but due to the promise He made for His faithful and loyal servants of ancient times that city will never be wiped out. Satan is working tirelessly to erase that city from the world's map so that everything written in the Bible might sound like fables to the next generation. So God vowed to keep that city not because of those faithless Jews who murdered his only begotten son but because of his faithful and loyal servants like David, Hezekiah and Josiah who ruled as Kings in that same city and served Him with all their hearts!

How will it be if they're resurrection today only to find out that the city they cried bitterly for and fought with all their might to keep for Jehovah is no more?
So JEHOVAH will keep that city no matter what happens and mind you JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are in Jerusalem today anticipating the kingdom of God and ready to welcome back all those loyal servants of JEHOVAH whose graves are still kept safe till today!

All your argument against Jesus is like campaign after election, the result of Jesus' works is here today. The One big and happy global family of peace loving worshipers that noone not even your faithless Jewish friends can deny the impact of Jesus' teachings amongst JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Micah 4:1-3

Tell them to go and destroy electricity before debunking the existence of Benjamin Franklin or they should go and wipe out America before trying to debunk the existence of Christopher Columbus. JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES Organization is an undeniable proof that Jesus of Nazareth is real! Act 1:8

Thanks for your time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW-NKGXFGg&feature=plcp&context=C3ebfd08UPOEgsToPDskIfrEWInjPt1GLI0EKZnQPp

GeneralDae:

Exactly, there are comparisons to the Egyptian and Babylonian laws of old.
I don't know why he thinks the Mosaic laws are special.

I never said they are....i said most people here cone from christian back ground. Godlaws are universal and wasgiven to all men. The jews wrote it down. The one that is well avaliable to every one is the Torah..

GeneralDae:

Exactly, there are comparisons to the Egyptian and Babylonian laws of old.
I don't know why he thinks the Mosaic laws are special.

The laws never mention God sending his son as a sacrifice for sin. Human sacrifice is an abomination.

God never told anyone in the laws to pretend to eat the flesh and drink the blood ofthe messiah. That is canibalistic. And it is pagan and have nothing to dowithGod.

sonmvayina:


Man was created from dust of the earth + spirit of God. I said that at the beginning of this thread. God already set the law thst before a woman become pregnant , she was receive the sperm from the man at the right time and conditions.. So mary can not become pregnant without a mans sperm. Out side thst it is mythology..


So jesus, perseus, prometheus and bacchus are mythical demi gods.. Not real...the earlier you know and realise thst the better you wake up ftom the brain washing..

Yes for mankind to make a child, a sperm and egg must be used. But Yahweh is not beholden to the laws of man. He shows that again and again throughout the Old Testament. Or do you think all the signs and wonders of the Old Testament are metaphorical?


Anyone can say that Yahshua the Messiah didn’t exist without evidence. You’ve used your imagination here to suppose what Yahweh can or cannot do but I’d recommend reading Job chapters 37-41 again for some humbling. Yahweh does not need your or anyone’s approval or permission to do anything.

And because you disapprove of him placing his life in a human body doesn’t mean it’s an abomination. As he said “cursed is the ground” but he should use cursed elements to make a spotless body? As you know, a sin offering must be without spot or blemish to be a worthy sacrifice. A man like us would not be worthy or capable of redeeming us...

If you’re not aware, atheists dismiss the existence of God entirely and likewise mock your own beliefs in the same way you’ve done here. You didn’t prove anything, you offered your limited perspective and concluded based on that alone.

sonmvayina:


The messiah as defined in judaism is a king or high preist tbat is annointed to lead the people. He is not coming to change Gods laws, any body who does that is immediately recognised as a false prophet.

That one messiah that the prophet spoke about is coming to usher in peace and end all wars and oppression. That has not happened.


We are all waiting..

No one has changed the laws but they are written on our hearts and minds as the Old Testament said. Jeremiah 31:31 itself predicts a change that’s why it says the new covenant will be UNLIKE the old one.

His death was for the purpose of redemption. So that we are no longer under the laws and have an opportunity to know, understand, and love our creator on a personal level. the previous way had people depending on rabbis and priests to communicate with Yahweh on their behalf and it was not serving the purpose of true redemption.

Since you disregard the New Testament when convenient I suppose referring you to Matthew 24th chapter would be fruitless:

4Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Wars and strife must come to pass, Earth is not the final destination. A peaceful Earth wouldn’t even make sense as it wouldn’t encourage anyone to search for and depend on Yahweh, similar to how in the Old Testament the Israelites only called out for Yahweh when they were in bondage or peril.

The peace that Yahshua Messiah brought to us comes once we accept the sacrifice he made and acknowledge who he was, once we are filled with the holy spirit.

GeneralDae:

Exactly, there are comparisons to the Egyptian and Babylonian laws of old.
I don't know why he thinks the Mosaic laws are special.

He thinks the Mosaic laws are special because that is all he knows and believes. Even the omenani he mentions, he does not understand its philosophical evolution, as expressed also in Judaism by the emergence of Christ.

Below is a pdf link download to the philosophical understanding of omenani

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ajol.info/index.php/og/article/view/200183/188719&ved=2ahUKEwjsrYurwcHvAhUGZcAKHVX8BxMQFjABegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw2uSE5H5WwZv0xko_RP2zqP

sonmvayina:


The laws never mention God sending his son as a sacrifice for sin. Human sacrifice is an abomination.

God never told anyone in the laws to pretend to eat the flesh and drink the blood ofthe messiah. That is canibalistic. And it is pagan and have nothing to dowithGod.

Only ignorant fools read it literally. Your London rabbi must have taught you that so stop playing ignorant.