budaatum:


I don't think an atheist would marry you and any follower of Christ who does would be led astray by you. But I'll let others come tell you about your fruits instead of letting you waste my precious time.

Kobojunkie:
Clarification : Jesus Christ never taught that His folowers, even the female ones, bow to/obey any man/woman as they would their one and only Master. Jesus Christ.

shadeyinka:

No comment!
If I share a relevant guiding scripture, you will say it's not by Jesus.

Therefore case closed!

Kobojunkie:
Paul's opinions, many of which we already stated stand contrary to the very teachings of our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ, don't make for great guiding scripture as far as Christians go, does it?

shadeyinka:

Please what exactly did Jesus say with respect to Husband and Wife relationship?
How is Paul's position contradictory?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ said Nothing.

Meaning that all what Paul said was just his opinion and nothing else.

shadeyinka:
....I don't want to share my home with satan ....

shadeyinka:

How then can Paul contradict "nothing"?

Kobojunkie:
When Jesus Christ says nothing about an issue, it means no one should make rules for such for others.
When you elevate the opinions of Paul to God-level where Christian's are concerned, you stand in direct contradiction of what Jesus said, which is nothing, and you also disobey Jesus Christ who commands you never to offer up the opinions of men as if His Truth.

shadeyinka:

Like Jesus didn't speak about smoking Indian Hemp nor Snorting Cocaine.
Jesus didn't speak about Education nor Rape!

No one should have any opinion about it.

Sorry bro!

budaatum:

The pity is you fail to understand that satan has completely occupied your mind.

Kobojunkie:
Who says no one can have an opinion?

The rule is do not sell your opinion in the name of God because where God's Truth is concerned, they are nothing but lies, which is what many your doctrines and traditions of men are.

shadeyinka:

The Scriptures guide me to living to please and honour Christ!
QED!

Kobojunkie:
Scriptures that contradict the teachings of Christ can't do what you claim .I.e. honor Christ.
It is impossible because such Scriptures make Jesus Christ out to be a liar.

shadeyinka:

By their fruit, they are known!

Kobojunkie:
Remenber what Jesus Christ said of those. He said a bad tree can never produce good fruits - it can only produce more lies and unrighteous.

shadeyinka:

Of course a bad tree CANNOT produce good fruit.

By their fruit, you shall know them is strictly VALID!

shadeyinka:

The fact that you are an atheist is a direct consequence of the action of your mum.

You seem not to understand may take on this:
1. A woman who is already married to an atheist should not seek divorce. She should make the best out of her situation.
2. Such a Christian woman must obey her husband as unto Christ
3. A single Christian should not marry an atheist because not human being has the power to convert any man AND you cannot stop the Atheist husband having a negative spiritual influence over your children. It is not impossible that the woman herself stopped believing in God.

Numbers 1 and 2 is Scripturally based. Number 3 is common sense. A needless risk to bear!

My dear triplechoice, you are a good example of why the common sense in three is real

triplechoice:


If am not a Atheist and there's no common sense in anything you have said.

You just jumped into conclusion without having enough information about me or my family background.

My Father was a vocal atheist but this didn't stop I and my other siblings, especially my immediate younger sister who at a time was greatly influenced by him, from attending Church and becoming Christians later in life.

So you can see that his influence counted for nothing, that is ,preventing us from becoming who we are later in life. I am not an atheist or a Christian today because. I know of the limitations of both position first hand from the experiences of my parents. So right now , I am in the middle; A skeptic and at the same time a spiritually conscious person . Nothing bad with that

I speak from my own life experience and I can certainly relate with the situation curenttly going on in the home if the op.. Its something
his children would greatly benefit from in the future

They would learn very well in that family setting how to use their head and heart in any given situation.
The head, from the father while the heart from the mum

Love is the only thing I think would make a believing Christian marry an atheist and for love sake, why are you against such a unoin?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ said Nothing.

Meaning that all what Paul said was just his opinion and nothing else.

shadeyinka:

I delight to see him fall everyone in my presence. But how do you think peace will exist if I always humiliate my father-in-law?

Kobojunkie:
When Jesus Christ says nothing about an issue, it means no one should make rules on such for others.
When you elevate the opinions of Paul to God-level where Christian's are concerned, you stand in direct contradiction of what Jesus said, which is nothing, and you also disobey Jesus Christ who commands you never to offer up the opinions of men as if His Truth.

Magnoliaa:
Okayyy. So you don't believe Paul was a Christian and neither was he saved? He fabricated the story of his conversion on the way to Damascus? All his missionary journeys, and writings and miracles, and the 'spreading' of the gospel were all just in his head and he put himself in danger's way just for the sake of it?

Magnoliaa:
What I'm trying to point out is that Paul's writings are the result of his salvation. If his writings are his opinions, then the rest of things about him are false too.

Magnoliaa:
Right. So Jesus Christ said nothing on rape, prostitution, smoking, and so many other things. And according to you, "nothing" by Jesus Christ is in contradiction to the laws and rules man came up with. That means you're saying Jesus Christ is in support of such things he spoke nothing of. Or you know that whatever rose out of the conscience of man concerning morals, that Jesus Christ didn't speak on is not something he'll be against? Whatever bad thing humans engage in, Christ would always be in support because He didn't say anything about them?

Kobojunkie:
I never met Paul so I don't know of his particulars. From what I have read, he was a believer, hence he had salvation(from the condemnation of Sin, which is Death), and he did what was written of him in the Acts of the Apostles by the supposed author, Luke.

I have read and studied all of his letters, and what is clear is that he communicated his views of the gospel with several, mostly Jewish, Christian communities. And that is the extent of my knowledge of who the man was.
Paul never wrote directly of the gospel teachings of Jesus Christ, instead, he argued ideas and issues that concerned the lives of the believers, particularly the Jewish believers, he was in communication with. So when people pretend that the Gospel of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ was somehow done away with or explained better by Paul, they do so out of ignorance, because, as I said, Paul never actually teaches the gospels in his letters, but instead makes several, somewhat flawed attempts at arguing for the gospels. When I say flawed, I mean that there are statements in his letters that run contrary to the very Truth of Jesus Christ. That can be left for another topic.

Jesus Christ, the Word of God(Truth) is the only one who has seen God and is right now at the right hand of God Almighty, in Heaven. Paul, and all the apostles before him and every other believer who has gone before us, are still sleeping in their graves, awaiting the return of Jesus Christ, and final judgment of their works on this earth. Whose words will you put your trust in? Jesus Christ's Or Paul's.

I don't know of you but I choose Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Every other idea or teaching has to measure up to the Truth of God, Jesus Christ, or is discarded for what it is - the doctrines and traditions of men, which Jesus Christ called lies and meaningless where God, and the Kingdom of God, is concerned. And as Paul himself declared, "Let man be a liar, and God be true".

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, is the Law as far as the Kingdom of God is concerned. Ignorant men who make chosen to contradict His very commandments by teaching additional laws and rules for His Kingdom are deceived since in their foolishness they supposed themselves equal to Him where His Kingdom is concerned.

Recall that Jesus Christ made it clear in His teaching that the Kingdom of God is not of this World. So, where Jesus Christ says, "Nothing", it means that which He does not speak of does not apply to His Kingdom. For example, on the issue of who one can marry or how to comport self in marriage, Jesus Christ said nothing since He already declared that your marriages have nothing to do with His Kingdom - they are instead of this World. That means it is up to individuals who enter into marriage contracts to decide what they will in their situation and how they will work it out for themselves - God has no rule over it.

As far as rape, prostitution, smoking, so many other things... those belong to this world and so the decision is left to the world of men to tackle for themselves as they see fit - the decisions have nothing to do with His Kingdom and His New Covenant.

MaxInDHouse:
You can never marry a true Christian because God's word says Christians should marry only in the Lord meaning someone in the same FAITH {1Corinthians 7:39} a true Christian will prefer to die single rather than marrying an unbeliever! 1Corinthians 7:40

So you are married to a misinformed Churchgoer Sir, not a Christian!

Magnoliaa:


So much here I can't respond to. And it's too late. But fine. If you don't rate Paul nor consider him to be very much influential in the spreading of the gospel. You should go all the way and discount his lived experiences, too. They were just theatrics and he sooo wanted to die for a non-existent person who gave him inspiration to write epistles that contradicted the imaginary "saviour" he thought was Jesus.

I'll assume you've done your due work, sha. Because this Jesus Christ is nobody any of us has seen and so anything you can get about him is going to be either through:

-writings by people (which you'll have to subject to the same scrutiny you subjected Paul's epistles to) and you're a man yourself, and you'll subject your own logic to the same scrutiny, because you're given to errors, so how are you so sure you're picking the right truth of Jesus?!

-you have a spiritual encounter/revelation with Him (the same thing we can say for Paul or any other Christian who says they know Jesus which is highly subjective and falsifiable).

The truthfulness of these personal experiences can only be ascertained by what was written about Jesus then. Like, if you want to know a true Christian, put them side by side with Christ. But who KNOWS Christ, personally, except the eyewitnesses/disciples who ate and drank with Him? If we start disputing and cherry-picking these guys' write-ups as their fantasies and personal ideologies, then you can't claim to know Christ. You'll just keep falling back on personal writings and revelations. So where is the OBJECTIVE measurement?

One last question: do you not believe in the Bible? As the true, complete, inerrant Word of God?

Magnoliaa:
So much here I can't respond to. And it's too late. But fine. If you don't rate Paul nor consider him to be very much influential in the spreading of the gospel. You should go all the way and discount his lived experiences, too. They were just theatrics and he sooo wanted to die for a non-existent person who gave him inspiration to write epistles that contradicted the imaginary "saviour" he thought was Jesus.

Magnoliaa:
I'll assume you've done your due work, sha. Because this Jesus Christ is nobody any of us has seen and so anything you can get about him are going to be either through:
-writings by people (which you'll have to subject to the same scrutiny you subjected Paul's epistles to) and you're a man yourself, and you'll subject your own logic to the same scrutiny, because you're given to errors, so how are you so sure you're picking the right truth of Jesus?!
-you have a spiritual encounter/revelation with Him (the same thing we can say for Paul or any other Christian who says they know Jesus which is highly subjective and falsifiable).

The truthfulness of these personal experiences can only be ascertained by what was written about Jesus then. Like, if you want to know a true Christian, put them side by side with Christ. But who KNOWS Christ, personally, except the eyewitnesses/disciples who ate and drank with Him? If we start disputing and cherry-picking these guys' write-ups as their fantasies and personal ideologies, then you can't claim to know Christ. You'll just keep falling back on personal writings and revelations. So where is the OBJECTIVE measurement?

One last question: do you not believe in the Bible? As the true, complete, inerrant Word of God?

Genesis 26 vs 1-5 (ERV)
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1. Now there was a famine. This was like the famine that happened during Abraham’s life. So Isaac went to the town of Gerar, to King Abimelech of the Philistines.
2. The Lord spoke to Isaac and said, “Don’t go down to Egypt. Live in the land that I commanded you to live in.
3. Stay in this land, and I will be with you. I will bless you. I will give you and your family all these lands. I will do what I promised to Abraham your father.
4. I will make your family as many as the stars of heaven, and I will give all these lands to your family. Through your descendants[a] every nation on earth will be blessed.
5. I will do this because your father Abraham obeyed my words and did what I said. He obeyed my commands, my laws, and my rules.”

Magnoliaa:
Ehn. Just give a straight forward answer then: poverty, rape, prostitution and the numerous cold realities of this world are things Jesus do not care about?.

Magnoliaa:
Or to put it in another way, according to you, because Christ didn't say anything on rape, if we make moral laws about it, they do not seem like laws Jesus would be in favor of, abi? (Especially as God seem to be so big on Justice).

Mark 7 vs 1-13 (ERV)
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1. Now when the Pharisees gathered to him, with some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem,
2. they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed.
3. (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands properly,[a] holding to the tradition of the elders,
4. and when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions that they observe, such as the washing of cups and pots and copper vessels and dining couches.[c])
[b] 5. And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?”
6. And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written,
“‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
7. in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8. You leave the commandment of God and hold to the (doctrines and rules)** tradition of men.”
9. And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
10. For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’
11. But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God)[d]—
12. then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother,
13. thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Magnoliaa:
Lol... you're really trying so hard to detach this world from the Kingdom of God, and I understand, but you know without sin, there'd be no need for Jesus dying.

Magnoliaa:
Who are the people he came to die for? Sinners. Where? Inside this world. So stop trying to paint Jesus as an "I-don't-care" man who is completely and utterly detached from... I mean, is it not from this world he'll get people for that Kingdom?

Matthew 11 vs 27-30 (ESV)
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27. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
28. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

Magnoliaa:
Believers live amidst the chaos of this world, so you cannot just write our reality here out of our relationship with him. He even said he came to give us life and in abundance. So how do you think he expects us to live that life? Raping people? Killing people? Sleeping around? Using hard drugs, being unkind and unfair to others, etc., because he didn't speak directly on these things?

That his kingdom is not of this world =/= nonchalance about what we do especially as believers or His followers.

budaatum:
When you are done with this denier of Paul, meet here a denier of the entire New Testament, and then consider buda the unbeliever in the Bible who loves every single Word in the book.

An amazing lot, we Creators of Gods are.

Magnoliaa:
@Kobojunkie - You don't get my point, do you?
In your same mind and based on some unseen rubrics, you're dismissing Paul but you believe and are quoting other verses and Abraham of the Bible to be true. You called Paul a mortal, but you're a mortal yourself and subjecting the Bible to your understanding.

What makes you think the same way you're fixated on, how to know the Truth, is not the same way Paul took?

Genesis 26 vs 1-5 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Now there was a famine. This was like the famine that happened during Abraham’s life. So Isaac went to the town of Gerar, to King Abimelech of the Philistines.
2. The Lord spoke to Isaac and said, “Don’t go down to Egypt. Live in the land that I commanded you to live in.
3. Stay in this land, and I will be with you. I will bless you. I will give you and your family all these lands. I will do what I promised to Abraham your father.
4. I will make your family as many as the stars of heaven, and I will give all these lands to your family. Through your descendants[a] every nation on earth will be blessed.
5. I will do this because your father Abraham obeyed my words and did what I said. He obeyed my commands, my laws, and my rules.”

Romans 4 vs 1-4 (ERV)
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1. What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2. For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Magnoliaa:
Finally you agreed on rape being a sin, after so many roundabouts of "Jesus didn't speak on it." I'll say that should perfectly sum what we're saying up for you and make you understand, but I wouldn't bet on it. You should know then that because Scriptures is silent is not an outright stamp of approval on some issues or an outright condemnation and not say, "DoN't MaKe LaWs FoR OThErs."

Don't speak for Jesus, or the Bible, too, puffed up, man. ^_^

I'm not doing this with you again. You and your mind should continue.
Lol. I'll go through this later in the day.