FatherOfJesus:

DID God knew from the onset that he would turn out to be the devil?

I come in peace!
Every Father knows and is very aware of the abilities of his children but No Father reasonably Expects his child to be a Rapist, Murderer, Armed Robber of Rebell and Challenge Him!

None Expect it even though we are are aware in Truth that they can do so.

But we are also aware that they can also never do so ESPECIALLY when he, like his other siblings, never ever did so, as he siblings have also done.

Therefore when he does a thing that no other person has done, then A Court must be convened on his soul to enquire the reason or reasons why he did that which he knew not to do and did not do in the past, until now!

Peaceyw:

so Satan decided to become a corruption. Since all things were good, Satan decided to become the bad and was cursed to become the bad.
I think I understand it a little

Remember The Law of God is "What you sow, that shall you reap" he who digs a pit for another shall himself fall into it. An eye for an eye therefore Good, for Good and Evil, for Evil!

Which is why the Bible Always says "He shall Reward thee According to thy works"!

And by their Fruits (Work) Ye shall know them!

The Law Answers Everything think on them and see if Satan and everyone isn't caught by them!

Peaceyw:

How did you come up with this conclusion? Is there any further explanation to this?

He has no valid one for God is Good and is Always Good and He has Expressly Declared it "that He Hates Evil"

So how then can He and would He raise up an Opponent to come and Spoil His Good aa this Unknowing man said?

Shall a man build up a beautiful house and put his children in them thereafter raise up and cause a Bulldozer to come and destroy it?

Is this a reasonable even among less people like us? How much more For God Who even gave us this Good Reason!

God created the devil. He fully knows what he'll be before creating him.

Peaceyw:

But people aren't appreciating God's benevolence by giving us freewill. Think about atheist for a minute, racists, oppressors. Everything is just messed up

I'm not sure I follow. Do people have to appreciate God's benevolence in giving them free will for things to not be messed up?

The point of giving some of His creatures free will is just to allow angels and humans to choose whether to submit to Him or to rebel against Him. I don't see how that messes everything up.

NO He didn't!

FatherOfJesus:

DID God knew from the onset that he would turn out to be the devil?

Dtruthspeaker:


There is a difference between Fore-Know and Can-Know!

He/she/it is the alpha and omega, who knows the end from the beginning. He even knows an individual before they're conceived.

MaxInDHouse:
NO He didn't!

Does this undermine his omniscience nature?

Judybash93:


He/she is all knowing.. So, i think the answer would be yes from me

So if he knew then, is it okay to say that God intentionally created evil even after knowing the outcome?

Dtruthspeaker:


I come in peace!
Every Father knows and is very aware of the abilities of his children but No Father reasonably Expects his child to be a Rapist, Murderer, Armed Robber of Rebell and Challenge Him!

None Expect it even though we are are aware in Truth that they can do so.

But we are also aware that they can also never do so ESPECIALLY when he, like his other siblings, never ever did so, as he siblings have also done.

Therefore when he does a thing that no other person has done, then A Court must be convened on his soul to enquire the reason or reasons why he did that which he knew not to do and did not do in the past, until now!

So the omniscient nature of God can be compared to that of an earthly father?

He never claim such that's the assumption of presumptuous misinformed religionsts!

FatherOfJesus:

Does this undermine his omniscience nature?

YES! Unlike humans who makes a plan to do something but not sure of it's end God can tell the future. What presumptuous religionsts are getting wrong here:
God gave us freewill {Genesis 2:17} he can't say this or that is how all intelligent creatures will respond or appreciate the gift of life {Deuteronomy 32:5} but whether you respond positively or negatively, whether you show appreciate for wonderful gift or not He knows how to manipulate things without hindrance to get the desired results {Isaiah 55:9} God can tell what will happen at the end of his own plans {Isaiah 55:10-11} all because he will make sure his own plans work out as planned so it's left to each of us to choose whether we'll end up earning immortality through his program or we'll return to dust. His own plans will surely succeed! Romans 6:23
Thanks!

Judybash93:

He/she/it is the alpha and omega, who knows the end from the beginning. He even knows an individual before they're conceived.

FatherOfJesus:
So if he knew then, is it okay to say that God intentionally created evil even after knowing the outcome?

Hello Joseph! Probably yes.

Judybash93:

Hello Joseph! Probably yes.

Can we no say God is the cause of all the evil in the world?

MaxInDHouse:
He never claim such that's the assumption of presumptuous misinformed religionsts!

So in Essence, you are saying that an omniscience God didn’t know that one of his creation would turn evil?

He is not Omniscience! He purposed for good things but since He gave angels and humans freewill anything can come up so how could he have known what each creature will turn out to be.
Where presumptuous misinformed Churchgoers got it all wrong is when God set His mind to restore Paradise he made a perfect plan that nothing can stop not that He knew all these evil people are doing from the beginning NO! He made arrangements to restore PEACE that's what He meant by saying i know the end of what will happen but as for what each person will decide to do that's left to each one to decide not his own!

FatherOfJesus:

So in Essence, you are saying that omniscience God didn’t know that one of his creation would turn evil?

FatherOfJesus:
So the omniscient nature of God can be compared to that of an earthly father?

I simply explained to you the Application of His Knowingness using normal human conduct since we are slightly like Him!

Judybash93:

He/she/it is the alpha and omega, who knows the end from the beginning. He even knows an individual before they're conceived.

He does not lose His Greatness simply because He Adopts the "Wait and See Approach"!

Dtruthspeaker:


I simply explained to you the Application of His Knowingness using normal human conduct since we are slightly like Him!

the analogy is faulty considering the omniscient nature of God. All knowing

FatherOfJesus:
the analogy is faulty considering the omniscient nature of God. All knowing

Which is because you do not want to accept it and take cognizance of the words "To see what he shall call it" or "and God Saw that...." or "That I may Prove them whether they will walk in my Law, or no" and all these variations repeated several several times through the Bible!

But, I won't push it any further!

Peaceyw:
I was reading a Christian book by Dr. D.K Olukoya (M.F.M General overseer) and in that book he said that God didn't create devil, He created lucifer. It was lucifer that turned himself into the devil. According to him, God never had any plans for a devil, satan, liar, deceiver and killer. So my question is that, if God never had any plan to create the devil, why did the devil appear?

God deliberately created the Devil as he is.

Dtruthspeaker:


Which is because you do not want to accept it and take cognizance of the words "To see what he shall call it" or "and God Saw that...." or "That I may Prove them whether they will walk in my Law, or no" and all these variations repeated several several times through the Bible!

But, I won't push it any further!

Accept what? This is why I prefer trolling you. You like back and forth argument.

He’s omniscient, he should know everything. That’s what omniscient means.
If he doesn’t know the definite outcome of what the devil would become then he’s not omniscient.

Earthly fathers are not omniscient. You too like baseless arguments

FatherOfJesus:
Accept what? This is why I prefer trolling you. You like back and forth argument.

You love insulting me because you like many others here are not ever able to provide a validl and reasonable counter for any of my presentations even after exhausting your arsenals.

But where I engaged you because I saw you were reasonable and trying to be, I see now that personal hatred for me now rules you over Good Reason and Verification of Information.

But I understand!

Dtruthspeaker:


You love insulting me because you like many others here are not ever able to provide a validl and reasonable counter for any of my presentations even after exhausting your arsenals.

But where I engaged you because I saw you were reasonable and trying to be, I see now that personal hatred for me now rules you over Good Reason and Verification of Information.

But I understand!

what reasonable counter?
Your logic is ridiculous, how can you not know that an omniscient will know everything?

You are trying to special plead and you call that counter. I will never have a sane debate with you, na trolling fit you because you hardly make sense. You will be arguing back and forth

The devil is a christian creation. Just like their jesus. Whstever happens, happens because it is the will of God. If God says yes, nobody can say No and if God says No, no one can say yes. I dont see the need for creating a character that does not affect the equation in any way...

The catholics did, so they can sell their solution (jesus) that they also created...

Believe them at your own peril.

FatherOfJesus:
what reasonable counter?
Your logic is ridiculous, how can you not know that an omniscient will know everything?

You are trying to special plead and you call that counter. I will never have a sane debate with you, na trolling fit you because you hardly make sense. You will be arguing back and forth

Dtruthspeaker, somebody else has noticed too...

The list is increasing...

Even for the sake of this thread, we assume the devil exist. He cant go against the will of God or change it. He must bend to the will of God. He is and cant be an equal opposite of God..i dont know how he went from a loyal son of God that does only what God ask him to do in the old testament to a God, equal and opposite to God with a will outside the will of God in the new testament. Three times he was mentioned in the old testament and in those 3 times it is to come and take permission from God.

Fact 1: The devil does nothing witbout Gods "ok"

Fact 2: The devil is very much part of it, not independent or outside the will of God.

Fact 3: He is not an equal opposite of God.

Fact 4: the devil is the god of darkness, i.e the moon god.(Nanna)
While satan is the god of the air or wind(Enlil) and lucifer is the goddess of war and love(inanna)

As an atheist surely all these might seem like child's play to you but bear in mind that whoever refers to God as Omniscient is indirectly saying:

"Don't commend good deeds nor reproof evildoers because God is the author of whatever people do be it good or evil"

MURDERERS, ROBBERS, RITUALISTS, TERRORISTS, WITCHES, GAYS, LESBIANS, RAPISTS, BESTIALISTS and the rest are not to blame, rather the blame goes to the person who created them with defaults! Genesis 3:12

So instead of judging them you're supposed to pity them since they're not the architect of their script but the author who handed over their roles to them, they're just playing their parts of the movie.

Well that makes sense to some people!

FatherOfJesus:

So in Essence, you are saying that an omniscience God didn’t know that one of his creation would turn evil?

MaxInDHouse:
As an atheist surely all these might seem like child's play to you but bear in mind that whoever refers to God as Omniscient is indirectly saying:

"Don't commend good deeds nor reproof evildoers because God is the author of whatever people do be it good or evil"

MURDERERS, ROBBERS, RITUALISTS, TERRORISTS, WITCHES, GAYS, LESBIANS, RAPISTS, BESTIALISTS and the rest are not to blame, rather the blame goes to the person who created them with defaults! Genesis 3:12

So instead of judging them you're supposed to pity them since they're not the architect of their script but the author who handed over their roles to them, they're just playing their parts of the movie.

Well that makes sense to some people!

Its all God’s divine plan that they act that way

So next time a rapist devastated either your mum, sister or daughter don't blame him nor take it up legally because it's all God's divine plan that HE acted that way.

FatherOfJesus:

Its all God’s divine plan that they act that way

MaxInDHouse:
So next time a rapist devastated either your mum, sister or daughter don't blame him nor take it up legally because it's all God's divine plan that HE acted that way.

If An all knowing God who sees everything allow rapists to rape your mother, sister and daughter, you should consider quitting serving him because he’s useless

I can see that you're obsessed with the underlined!
But i'm telling you now that God won't do a single thing to stop anyone from doing as they pleased for now because He is not the one ruling the earth. When His own government is in place here His attendants (angels) will be on guard in every corner of the earth even lions, tigers, wolves and other predators will eat straw because the angels on guard will not permit them to KILL so if unintelligent creatures living on instinct are on constant watch think of what will be happening in the midst of intelligent creatures who have the knowledge of our heavenly Father, God and Judge!
So He can't do a single thing to rescue you or any other person now because He is not the person in charge of affairs on planet earth!

FatherOfJesus:

If An all knowing God who sees everything allow rapists to rape your mother, sister and daughter, you should consider quitting serving him because he’s useless