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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? (24594 Views)
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by mamajaz(f): 4:32pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: To your faith, add knowledge. Shikena. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 4:32pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: You still never show me the one scripture that Jesus states self defense is a SIN ABSOLUTELY. I will wait till you are ready to bring it out. You made mention of Stephen earlier, Let me ask you this, did STEPHEN defend himself or not? This will show how well you understand SELF DEFENSE. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Nobody: 4:33pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie:Imagine if all progenitors of christianity didn't defend themselves n all died off, how u wan hear about the religion? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Nobody: 4:33pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: So why did jesus tell dem to buy sword? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by subcbouy: 4:36pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie:Stop all this erroneous doctrine. Even it is written that my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. It can only become sin if you go attack people without reason. In this context it isn't a sin to defend yourself when being attacked. Go read the book of Nehemiah to see how he strategically defend himself and his people from conspiracy. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 4:36pm On May 02, 2021 |
mamajaz:Your faith is dead if it is not built on Truth of God, the teachings of Jesus Christ. All the knowledge you need is Jesus Christ for He is the one you are called to put your trust in and obey. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 4:38pm On May 02, 2021 |
achorladey:In Stephen's story we are clearly made to see the possible result of obedience to God's commandment and what we ought to be ready for. Stephen did exactly as Jesus Christ commanded. He didn't defend himself and He even prayed for His enemies and they pummeled him with stones. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 4:40pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: Kobojunkiee learn to be balance. No be to win discussion the Op take ask question. You mentioned John the Baptist, Stephen make I add Jesus too paapaa What does the above tell me? Simple, God didn't defend them or act in self-defense on their behalf when these ones are attacked physically. The question this will lead to is, has our heavenly father never defended or act in self-defense concerning those that are the apple of his eyes before? I want to see the other side of your examples. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 4:43pm On May 02, 2021 |
PrecisionFx:Are you saying that God Himself is incapable of handling His own Kingdom concerns without the "help" of men? In Jeremiah 31 vs 31-34, God declared of His New Covenant, that no longer will a man look to His neighbor to teach Him about God, instead He,God, will teach them of His own self. Ponder the meaning in that for a bit and see that even if all the "progenitors" were killed off, God will continue to teach each man of Himself as He has been doing from even before then. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by subcbouy: 4:43pm On May 02, 2021 |
How would you be making reference to authority coming to arrest and defending yourself? Op wrote robber attack and not authority attacking you. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 4:44pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: Did Stephen defend himself? According to you he didn't Acts 7 : 1 Then the high priest asked Stephen, “Are these charges true?” 2 To this he replied: “Brothers and fathers,(A) listen to me! The God of glory(B) appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Harran. What is Stephen doing here? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 4:44pm On May 02, 2021 |
PrecisionFx:Jesus Christ was simply "preparing the stage" ,if you will, for the next prophesy spoken by Isaiah to be fulfilled moments later. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 4:45pm On May 02, 2021 |
achorladey:So, calling on them to listen to him implies he defended himself? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 4:51pm On May 02, 2021 |
achorladey:The phrase "Apple of God's eyes" comes from Old testament, does it not? So it makes sense to show that God's tactic on this has not changed at all in this. As for examples of God defending His own, there are numerous but my question then to you is what good is it listing examples of God defending a someone, say 20 times before, when in the end, the same someone ended up murdered by the very same enemies? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Ayomivic(m): 4:53pm On May 02, 2021 |
Princewell2012: To me , I think self defence is not a sin but it has the limit you can do when you want to defend yourself. We all knows that war is not a sin I you are the good guys that wanted to protect life and properties or free yourself from oppressor as children of Israel fought to free themselves from oppressors . but I think it is best to save yourself by escaping or injure the operators if there is a chance to do than aim to kill because as a Christian the first thing to think of is peace. Remember God told israelites that when they are approaching a war with a one nation, they should first negotiate peace with that nation but if they disagreed with the peace they offered, then , they can give to them what they want the fault is not in them. Also remember God told them not to follow multitude to do evil |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 4:54pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: Oga Kobojunkiee did you see charges labelled against him? What was he doing when he asked THEM to listen to him? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 4:57pm On May 02, 2021 |
subcbouy:1. Always be sure to consider the contextual meanings of verses you quote so you do not end up deceived in your rush to sound knowledgeable. 2. Where God declared that the people suffer for lack of knowledge, the knowledge God referred to there is that of His comammdents as far as sin is concerned, something you are obviously lacking here, it seems. 3. Jesus Christ is the Law of God given to you and He clearly tells you that instead you should not attack anyone or fight back in anyway... be sure you have a clear understanding of His teachings please. Jesus Christ, the New Covenant Himself, Law in the Kingdom of God, declared that it is a sin to fight back or defend yourself.
4. Nehemiah was not a follower of Jesus Christ, nor was he called by God to teach you. Jesus Christ is God's own Truth to you as regards what you should obey. And this made this clear to you, when over and over, He declared that those who truly love Him are those who obey His commandments, not Nehemiah's commandments. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 5:00pm On May 02, 2021 |
achorladey:Stephen was preaching to them. It was Stephen's preaching of God sending Jesus Christ that informed that mob against him in the first place. And rather than stop, he, Stephen, continued preaching to them about Jesus Christ, the New Law from God. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 5:01pm On May 02, 2021 |
Ayomivic:Jesus Christ commands against self-defense hence it is a sin. Jesus Christ, the New Covenant Himself, Law in the Kingdom of God, declared that it is a sin to fight back or defend yourself.
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Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 5:02pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: As for examples of God defending His own, there are numerous Thank you, na two-way street we dey now concerning SELF DEFENSE. but my question then to you is Ok what good is it listing examples of God defending a someone say 20 times before, when in the end, the same someone ended up murdered by the very same enemies? Whatever good their is for you to think of or drawn from the lessons obtain from those examples which can be seen in your question rephrased below what good is it listing examples of Jesus resurrecting people who died during his day when in the end, the same people ended up dead by the very same enemies we all hate DEATH? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 5:07pm On May 02, 2021 |
achorladey:Ok, let's consider the story of James. God saved James numerous times. First when he was still a disciple of John, that he did not end up killed in the same way as his then teacher, and then when Jesus Christ was taken to be crucified - james life was spared as they all ran and hid for safety. However, not too long after, James was murdered by the very same Jewish persecutors of Jesus Christ and His followers. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 5:08pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, performed great wonders and signs(R) among the people. 9 Opposition arose, however, from members of the Synagogue of the Freedmen (as it was called)—Jews of Cyrene(S) and Alexandria as well as the provinces of Cilicia(T) and Asia(U)—who began to argue with Stephen. 10 But they could not stand up against the wisdom the Spirit gave him as he spoke.(V) 11 Then they secretly(W) persuaded some men to say, “We have heard Stephen speak blasphemous words against Moses and against God.”(X) 12 So they stirred up the people and the elders and the teachers of the law. They seized Stephen and brought him before the Sanhedrin. 13 They produced false witnesses, who testified, “This fellow never stops speaking against this holy place and against the law. 14 For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us.” 15 All who were sitting in the Sanhedrin looked intently at Stephen, and they saw that his face was like the face of an angel. Acts 7 : 1 Then the high priest asked Stephen, “Are these charges true?” 2 To this he replied: “Brothers and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Harran. You can see the charges against him and you can see how he responded to those charges in Acts 7? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 5:13pm On May 02, 2021 |
achorladey:Ok |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 5:21pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: So in essence do you think there was no lesson to be learnt about God saving James numerous times and that such action had no value or importance? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 5:30pm On May 02, 2021 |
achorladey:I am not one of them pastors who tries to mine every situation for positives and the lot. I like to subscribe to the hardcore Truth as presented. Jesus Christ died at the age of ~33. James died give or take a couple of years after that. Stephen was a young lad who died young. Many of the other disciples met their end in tragic ways. Many of the first Christian's, many of them true followers of Jesus Christ, also met their end in tragic manner. What do I say all that to mean? Jesus Christ was not kidding when He declared that you have to hate your life if you want to be His follower. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 5:42pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: I am not one of them pastors who tries to mine every situation for positives and the lot. I didn't say you are one. Being a pastor or not is irrelevant to the discussion I like to subscribe to the hardcore Truth as presented. I believe those you are in discussion with here too subscribe to the truth that set men free. Jesus himself said, we will be free if he set us free. Jesus Christ died at the age of ~33. James died give or take a couple of years after that. Stephen was a young lad who died young. Many of the other disciples met their end in tragic ways. Many of the first Christian's, many of them true followers of Jesus Christ, also met their end in tragic manner. All well recorded in the scripture. What do I say all that to mean? Jesus Christ was not kidding when He declared that you have to hate your life if you want to be His follower And nowhere did he say self defense is a Sin ABSOLUTELY. To add to your numerous example, when..... Jesus was born, Herod was seeking to kill him. What did Mary and Joseph do as instructed? They were asked to head to EGYPT that to is an act of self defense? They could have just stayed an allow their enemies catch up with them and when Jesus is collected from them and killed, God can easily tell Mary don't worry we will produce another Jesus even when they keep killing him on numerous occasion. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by subcbouy: 5:46pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie:4. If Nehemiah wasn't a follower of Jesus Christ why did you read Bible then? It shows that you really need Bible knowledge to understand that everything in the Bible is written for our correction, warning, encouragement and reproofing in righteousness. 3. You need to know the context of argument here. Defending yourself from being attacked by robber is different from defending yourself from an arrest. The former is permitted by law to defend yourself, and the latter becomes unlawful to defend yourself from arrest, in the case of Jesus Christ you mentioned earlier. 2. No, It isn't only making reference to the commandment alone. when you lack knowledge of anything physically, mentally and spiritually you will definitely suffer for it. It is of this that you are advised to seek knowledge. 1. Go read the book of Nehemiah and the story of Jesus christ you quoted, make difference between individual plotting to attack you and authority coming to arrest you. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 5:47pm On May 02, 2021 |
achorladey:You know what, Jesus Christ said those who truly Love Him(His Truth included) are those who accept and obey His commandments. Saying you love Him means nothing of you don't trust and obey Him. This is what Jesus Christ says of self-defense and fighting back. Those who disobey, sin against God. That's all |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by truespeak: 5:51pm On May 02, 2021 |
ChiefSosa: You speak as a creation thus you fail to understand that your Creator has the power to do as He Wills with His creation or not to do still in accordance to His Will! By this Power He can choose to make His First creation any colour and you forget that their children also He Created, their parents did not and no parent created their children! This it is erroneous for you to expect that because they were of a type of colour which we know not, for both parents could be of different colours but again we know not, therefore the children must be of that kind! He can choose to make them of the same colour or different, but every parent knows or ought to know that is the sole prerogative of the Creator! The parents have no say in what child the Creator shall make and place in their care, for they do not make the child and if they did not make the child they can not determine the colour! Neither is the Creator bound to follow the colour or colours of the first creation, He can choose any colour he deems fit! Thus, Psalms 139:16 says "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." As all your members were fashioned by Him and without recourse to your parents, it is not surprising that colour is not dependent on your parents either! What you should know is that the Creator does as He Wills, Whenever He Wills or May even Will Not to Do Altogether! |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 5:55pm On May 02, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: You will have to look for the scripture where it says anyone defending himself don't love Jesus Christ as well. I have been looking for this and I almost skip it..... If a soldier forces you to walk with him one mile, go with him two What do soldiers do in most countries they dwell or resides? Should you go for self defense as your answer, what will you do in this case as it applies to Jesus words in bold up there? |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 5:57pm On May 02, 2021 |
subcbouy:Again.. 1. God calls you to the obedience of His Law. Jesus Christ is God's Law to you. I didn't quote the story of Jesus Christ but instead told you what God's law to you is as far as dealing with your "enemies" is concerned. Jesus Christ, the New Covenant Himself, Law in the Kingdom of God, declared that it is a sin to fight back or defend yourself. Jesus Christ is the agreement between God and individual man where the Kingdom of God is cconcerned.His teachings, the Truth of God, contain the commandments of God to you. It is up to you to rise above your self, just as He also commands, to trust in and obey Him. 2. Nehemiah was a man under the Old Covenant Law of God whereas you are called as a person under the New Covenant Law that is Jesus Christ. You are called to obedience of God's New Covenant Law and this Covenant commands that you not defend yourself or fight back when robbers attack you. This covenant commands that you love your enemies and pray for them instead of attacking them in anyway or form. 3. You have to decide whether the Covenant that is Jesus Christ is good enough for you to follow. There is no alternative for you since this is the only gentile friendly option that God made with the world - Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. |
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 6:00pm On May 02, 2021 |
achorladey:I don't have to look for any such scripture. If you don't want to believe what Jesus Christ tells you there in Matthew 5, then you simply don't. Not everyone who believes in Jesus Christ accepts and obeys His teachings. Jesus Christ spoke of this. |
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