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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. (4270 Views)
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Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Adjovi: 11:19am On Apr 18, 2021 |
FatherOfJesus: Ok 4.5 billion years old aiit. So when was the first proof of life on earth? |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by FatherOfJesus: 11:23am On Apr 18, 2021 |
Adjovi:Do you want to know about the age of earth or the first evidence of life on earth? Because you seem confuse now |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Adjovi: 11:28am On Apr 18, 2021 |
FatherOfJesus: The earth has to be formed first before it can abhor life isn't? So now you said the earth must have been formed some billions of years ago. So now I'm asking when was the first evidence of life after the earth was formed? |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by FatherOfJesus: 11:30am On Apr 18, 2021 |
Adjovi:One would think that the next reasonable question Would be “how did you know that the earth is not younger than 4.5billion years old?”. And then you jumped from that to another topic entirely. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Adjovi: 11:34am On Apr 18, 2021 |
FatherOfJesus: You have answered that of the age of the world and I'm asking another question but you seem not to have an answer to that hence trying to evade? Just answer my question I'm trying to point something out to you of which you are blind to see. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by FatherOfJesus: 11:39am On Apr 18, 2021 |
Adjovi:Why should I answer a question that has nothing to do with the topic? Am I here to always take questions you can easily check up by browsing google and Wikipedia? |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Adjovi: 11:59am On Apr 18, 2021 |
FatherOfJesus: Aiit then. Here's a link to another topic if you care to engage https://www.nairaland.com/6436635/bible-inspired-book-god |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by FatherOfJesus: 12:07pm On Apr 18, 2021 |
Adjovi:i just read it and I don’t see it as an interesting thread. I see someone who already reached a conclusion before even carrying out any experiment and then cherry picking scenarios to justify his conclusions while deliberately ignoring all contradictory facts. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Image123(m): 4:57pm On Apr 18, 2021 |
LordReed: Okay i see. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Adjovi: 4:58pm On Apr 18, 2021 |
FatherOfJesus: Lmao just admit your L and move on. You can come back when you have answers to prove all I've written wrong. All atheists have been avoiding this thread as usual cos y'all got nothing to say. You can go to another thread and show yourself bye bye |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Image123(m): 4:59pm On Apr 18, 2021 |
LordReed: Ask her. It's a world apart. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by FatherOfJesus: 5:06pm On Apr 18, 2021 |
Adjovi:Maybe they are avoiding it because the logic behind your reasoning is wack. Atheist usually do not shy away from such arguments |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Adjovi: 8:39pm On Apr 18, 2021 |
FatherOfJesus: Or maybe they have no answer to my questions because it's the truth |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by LordReed(m): 8:41pm On Apr 18, 2021 |
Image123: Don't need to, she's not going to say anything different from you. You both are emotionally invested in the Jesus stories, it soothes you. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Image123(m): 9:04pm On Apr 18, 2021 |
LordReed: Exactly. It is impossible to be emotionally invested in Bunyan in the same way. They are worlds apart. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by LordReed(m): 5:46am On Apr 19, 2021 |
Image123: Emotional investment doesn't make a tall tale true. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Image123(m): 11:38am On Apr 19, 2021 |
LordReed: i refer to the difference, not the validity. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by LordReed(m): 11:42am On Apr 19, 2021 |
Image123: I am not concerned with the difference. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by Image123(m): 11:44am On Apr 19, 2021 |
LordReed: Lol, but there's a world of difference between Jesus and Bunyan. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by LordReed(m): 11:45am On Apr 19, 2021 |
Image123: Doesn't matter to me since they are both tall tales. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by keppler: 2:37pm On Apr 20, 2021 |
LordReed:LoL! Your argument was wrecked by the very same article you referenced and all you can say is fallacy this and fallacy that. Bwahahahahahaha! Let's see if that's true. The article says' "Religions, by nature will have some general things in common…" then you claim that flood stories should have some general things in common. I agree with you on that. But the we should be able to know what this two things should have in common, especially, religion which have a way from BRANCHING OFF from one source. If I may ask, what should flood stories have in common (we can compare your answer with flood from news and weather reports) Notice how you skipped answering my question: Which part of what I mentioned about the Osiris myth was written after Jesus? Secondly, I maintained that the alleged parallels didn't happen in the original text. Let's see if these events are true parallels 1. Christ is the son of God the Father (and the Bible says him being the word was the agent of creation). Osiris on the other hand is among the many children of Geb who is a descendant of many ancestors leading to Ra the creator. A PARALLEL? No! But a parallel was formed such that Jesus is the son of the creator and Osiris is the son of the creator 2. Jesus came primarily to die for the sins of the world and reconcile the world to the Father. He knew about his death and that it was perpetrated by the Jews. Osiris died by the hand of Set his brother (some version claimed that it was for him to take over the throne, some claimed that he had intimacy with another who was supposed to be Set's wife). But a parallel was formed such that they both died by the hands of their enemy (though many people die by the hands of their enemies ) 3. Jesus had a bodily resurrection on this earth and appeared to his disciples, giving them instructions and having communion. Osiris dead body pieces was put together to copulate with Isis (according to some tradition) while his semen was drawn from his penis alone (according to other tradition) to copulate with Isis. The most striking part of them all is that he lived in the underworld. The question was that if he did not live on the earth, where did he copulate with Isis? But the word resurrection is now used to describe Osiris, which was never part of the myth in the first place BTW Jewish monotheism came from monolatry and before that polytheism, get your facts straight. Practiced monolatory? The Bible recorded one God in the beginning and later began to warn the Hebrews that there is no other deity except him. This and other evidence suggest that people along the way chose gods for themselves, hence, monolatrism and polytheism that you alluded to. The rightful thing for the Hebrews then was monotheism, hence the Shema given to them before their nation was settled. What facts should I get straight, Prof? To accept anti-God hypothesis or what the Bible and other scholars agree with? |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by keppler: 2:47pm On Apr 20, 2021 |
LordReed:Though I already ask you to give the type of similarities we should expect from different flood stories (a type which we should expect in different armed robbery stories), I just want to respond to the bolded, that I did that already in this thread. Starting with the Bible, the surviving families would pass the stories on to their descendants and the dispersal at Babel where every language group went their way would definitely go with such stories and continue to pass it down; though oral tradition corrupts with time, hence the differences in the stories, but accounts for the similarities that one should not expect in a typical flood story. You on the other hand compared apples with orange and my last response showed what I have maintained all along. The alleged parallels which are not are forced so as to discredit the gospels |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by LordReed(m): 4:06pm On Apr 20, 2021 |
keppler: If merely saying "Starting with the Bible, the surviving families would pass the stories on to their descendants and the dispersal at Babel where every language group went their way would definitely go with such stories and continue to pass it down; though oral tradition corrupts with time" is proof, then merely saying Israelites took the dying and rising god myth from Egypt is proof. LMFAO! |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by keppler: 4:43pm On Apr 20, 2021 |
LordReed:First, this is still comparing apples and orange as I showed a methodical approach how it came from one source and others having a variant of it, with the recorded history in the Bible. While you just compared it with merely asserting that the Isrealites took the a myth (which has also been shown to not be similar in the way it was claimed). That is comparing apples and orange. Funny enough, there are no parallels which can be compared to detailed similarities found in the flood stories which should naturally not be found. I already asked you to show us the type of similarities that should be found in different flood account of different geographical places (such which should be found in different armed robbery events) You obviously skipped that part of my response |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by LordReed(m): 7:16pm On Apr 20, 2021 |
keppler: keppler: Let's take a look at flood myths from around the world and let's see how similar they are to the Noah story. Yoruba: In the beginning, there was only the sky above, water and marshland below. North American Choctow: Our people have always had a tradition of the Deluge, which happened in this way: There was total darkness for a great time over the whole of the earth; the Choctaw doctors or mystery-men looked out for daylight for a long time, until at last they despaired of ever seeing it, and the whole nation was very unhappy. At last a light was discovered in the North, and there was great rejoicing, until it was found to be great mountains of water rolling on, which destroyed them all, except a few families who had expected it and built a great raft, on which they were saved. Greek: This one has the same basic story line. According to Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Dardanus left Pheneus in Arcadia to colonize a land in the North-East Aegean Sea. When Dardanus' deluge occurred, the land was flooded and the mountain where he and his family survived formed the island of Samothrace. He left Samothrace on an inflated skin to the opposite shores of Asia Minor and settled on Mount Ida. Due to the fear of another flood, they refrained from building a city and lived in the open for fifty years. His grandson Tros eventually moved from the highlands down to a large plain, on a hill that had many rivers flowing down from Ida above. There he built a city, which was named Troy after him. Chinese: The Huainanzi tells an ancient story about how the four pillars that support the sky crumbled inexplicably. Other sources have tried to explain the cause, i.e. the battle between Gong Gong and Zhuanxu or Zhu Rong. Unable to accept his defeat, Gong Gong deliberately banged his head onto Mount Buzhou (不周山) which was one of the four pillars. Half of the sky fell which created a gaping hole and the earth itself was cracked; the earth's axis mundi was tilted into the southeast while the sky rose into the northwest. This is said to be the reason why the western region of China is higher than the eastern and that most of its rivers flow towards the southeast. This same explanation is applied to the sun, moon, and stars which moved into the northwest. A wildfire burnt the forests and led the wild animals to run amok and attack the innocent peoples, while the water which was coming out from the earth's crack didn't seem to be slowing down. As we can see your claim of detailed similarity is lacking in any actual evidence. So no you did not prove that the flood myths all emanated from 1 event, you merely stated it, making a statement is not proof. Notice how you skipped answering my question: Which part of what I mentioned about the Osiris myth was written after Jesus? 1. I did not call Osiris "the son of Ra", I wrote descendant of Ra. Even if you are disputing that particular phrasing, is it not said in your bible that Adam was a son of god? What does that make Jesus if not a descendant of god on his mother's side? 2. The reason for his death is irrelevant to the parallel in this case. They were killed by their enemies period. 3. Osiris resurrection was bodily as well except he was missing the phallus which was the reason he could not continue to rule in the land of the living. You really didn't answer the question but instead went nitpicking. Can you prove that any part of the Osiris myth was written after Jesus, no you can't because it is simply not the case. It would be really funny to see you attempt to nitpick your way through the various flood myths I posted above. LoL BTW Jewish monotheism came from monolatry and before that polytheism, get your facts straight. So the Bible says so is your proof? LMAO! I dunno where to even start with this one. I am sure anything I point at will receive the a hand wave and claim of being anti-god. Anything that does not show the things you claim from your Bible are simply labelled anti-god even though your Bible stories have little to no support. The real things we can see are not enough, we have to accept some fanciful tales of a god doing fantastical things which when we tell you to reproduce, you start another song and dance. Bwahahahahaha! 1 Like |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by keppler: 5:59am On May 04, 2021 |
LordReed: Let me start with reminding you about the crux of our debate. I’ll paraphrase it as “the best explanation for the similarities found in different flood accounts of different world cultures”. Again, let me remind you of the part you seem to have refused to respond to (for the third time). What type of similarities should be found in flood account of different events (and locations); the type that we should see in armed robbery events of different locations? When the question above is answered (faithfully), then I will go ahead to address your claims point by point. I have been busy, hence have not got time to visit NL. I trust you are doing great and safe in the chaotic country (if you are in Nigeria o) |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by LordReed(m): 9:23am On May 04, 2021 |
keppler: You were adamant that there were details in the flood myths that could only be explained by them being offshoots of the Noah story while I maintained that similarities will be found across all cultures that have encounters with large bodies of water. That is the crux of the debate. I thought it was already made clear when I said that similarities are due to similarities in their environment and cultures. Vengeful gods, an unrelenting flood, a boat, sacrifice, etc are some of the similarities we would expect and indeed we see repeated across these flood myths. However what we do not see is any sort of detail that is constant aside from a flood and gods, every other thing varies. Some don't have boats, some do for instance.
I am well thanks for asking, hope you are too. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by keppler: 5:00pm On May 06, 2021 |
LordReed:Thanks But my question would be; why should we have the bolded words in a flood story? Not that those are the only anomalies in many flood stories anyway. Also, since we don't have a volcanic event across the world; what similarities should we expect from volcanic activities of different areas? Or similarities that we should expect from tsunami event? |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by LordReed(m): 5:33pm On May 06, 2021 |
keppler: LordReed: These are people whose worldview constantly revolved around the antics of gods as an explanation for natural phenomenon. It's no surprise they would include such things in their stories. Even our Nigerian cultures always mention gods and sacrifice whenever there is some calamity. I don't know about volcanic events or tsunamis since the cultures that encounter them are not as many as those that encounter flooding. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by keppler: 5:43pm On May 06, 2021 |
LordReed: These are people whose worldview constantly revolved around the antics of gods as an explanation for natural phenomenon. It's no surprise they would include such things in their stories. Even our Nigerian cultures always mention gods and sacrifice whenever there is some calamity Fair enough. Your argument for inclusion of gods and sacrifice is plausible for all cultures which are surrounded with large bodies of water and have boat building skills. I'll get back to that later I don't know about volcanic events or tsunamis since the cultures that encounter them are not as many as those that encounter flooding. Yes, I know. But what are the similarities that you would expect to see in such events, knowing the nature of such activities? It is important that an answer should be given, as it would give a prediction that one could test with later discovery. (does the prediction of the theory match the evidence and can it be used for other similar phenomena? The type used in scientific method) |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by LordReed(m): 6:05pm On May 06, 2021 |
keppler: I would have to know what kind of cultures develop around volcanoes to be able to make an extensive prediction. With the little I know the stories would also involve vengeful gods and sacrifice, probably even self sacrifice. Beyond these I can't make any more predictions. Archaeologists and anthropologists would have a better grasp of what to expect. I am neither. |
Re: 7 Reasons Why The Noah’s Ark Story Is A Myth. by keppler: 7:18pm On May 06, 2021 |
LordReed:Great! Just that the various volcanic legends doesn't have such similarities. Some have it being born as result of gods while there are many that didn't even include god, not to talk of sacrifices. This make sense since the eruptions were independent of themselves even when as you said, virtually all the cultures have gods in their world view. Now, comparing and contrasting, 1. All these volcano myths have similar environment 2. Majority have worship of gods 3. It would follow that worship of gods would entail sacrifice. Yet, we don't have such similarities in those stories. That is, what is common to them was not found in such legends, rather, though some few mention the eruption as the acts of gods, the differences are so wide that one can never link them at all. This is because they are local events which are independent of each other |
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