skydiver01:
The inflation broadbased market price action is unrelated to the bitcoin or cryptocurrencies market price movements. Cash generating equities (companies) have intrinsic values. Cryptocurrencies do not. I maintain within 5 years they will not exist. Digital currencies may very well exist but cryptocurrencies will not exist LEGALLY.

When inflation rises, first assets that get hit a risky and speculative assets. Cryptos and tech stocks fit that bill. When has crypto ever been 'legal'? If you are talking about intrinsic value, please what is the intrinsic value of gold?

emmanuelewumi:



At the end of the euphoria and frenzy, when normalcy returns Investments and assets must obey fundamentals and have the right valuations

So can you say Apple, Visa or Adobe are obeying fundamentals right now? If every company obeys fundamentals how would investors and traders profit from undervaluatuons and mispricings?

Great thread.

afroxyz:


So can you say Apple, Visa or Adobe are obeying fundamentals right now? If every company obeys fundamentals how would investors and traders profit from undervaluatuons and mispricings?

Traders make money from the volatility, the sustainability of the money is another thing.

Investors make money by identifying value and have ownership of the value in an asset or Investment in order to benefit from the earnings growth and cash flow from the asset or Investment.


Traders are concerned about price, investors are concerned about value.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get

emmanuelewumi:


Traders make money from the volatility, the sustainability of the money is another thing.

Investors make money by identifying value and have ownership of the value in an asset or Investment in order to benefit from the earnings growth and cash flow from the asset or Investment.


Traders are concerned about price, investors are concerned about value.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get

Is value investing not anchored on finding undervalued stocks and profiting from appreciation? Is the value investor not hoping to gain from the market's mispricing? Just because it is value does not mean you would invest your money. You have to look at how the market perceives the stock. Would you invest in Intel?

afroxyz:


Is value investing not anchored on finding undervalued stocks and profiting from appreciation? Is the value investor not hoping to gain from the market's mispricing? Just because it is value does not mean you would invest your money. You have to look at how the market perceives the stock. Would you invest in Intel?

Value investors invest for cash flow and earnings growth, an investment can get 100% capital appreciation and it is still undervalued if the fundamentals are sound.

They sell an asset or Investment when it becomes over priced or starts sell far above its intrinsic value, they don't sell just because it has appreciated.

They make provision for a margin of safety before committing funds.

Devoting 10% to 20% of your funds to speculation is not bad, if you have the instinct for gambling

emmanuelewumi:



Value investors in for cash flow and earnings growth, an investment can get 100% capital appreciation and it is still undervalued if the fundamentals are sound.

They sell an asset or Investment when it becomes over priced or starts sell far above its intrinsic value, they don't sell just because it has appreciated.

They make provision for a margin of safety before committing funds.

Devoting 10% to 20% of your funds to speculation is not bad, if you have the instinct for gambling

Between Q2 2019 and Q1 2021 Coca cola's earnings have decreased by 12.6%. Visa's earnings have slid from $4.78 in 2019 to $4.36 in 2021 (75%).

Likewise Pepsi and many other companies. So what is the earnings growth we are talking about compared to Apple, Amazon and Facebook.

Even Benjamin Graham who is regarded as the father of value investing made more money in a growth stock.

But the irony is even if you want to invest in growth or speculatuve assets you have to use fundamentals

afroxyz:


Between Q2 2019 and Q1 2021 Coca cola's earnings have decreased by 12.6%. Visa's earnings have slid from $4.78 in 2019 to $4.36 in 2021 (75%).

Likewise Pepsi and many other companies. So what is the earnings growth we are talking about compared to Apple, Amazon and Facebook.

Even Benjamin Graham who is regarded as the father of value investing made more money in a growth stock.

But the irony is even if you want to invest in growth or speculatuve assets you have to use fundamentals

Better to have a stagnant earning than a fall in the earnings, a quarter is not enough to tell the story but gives a guide. It is better if you use 2020 q1 against 2021 q1.


What is your definition of a growth stock. I think a growth stock increases it earnings at a rate far higher than inflation, by definition though.

Inflation is 10%, a business has been increasing it earnings or profit by 20% for the past 3 years.

Made N200 million in 2018, N240 million in 2019, N288 million in 2020 and N345.6 million in 2021 and there a probability of sustaining the earning growth.

ibechris:



Go to Bwari area council and see whether someone can sell to u,as I bought mine through their staff.

Thank you.

emmanuelewumi:



Better to have a stagnant earning than a fall in the earnings, a quarter is not enough to tell the story but gives a guide. It is better if you use 2020 q1 against 2021 q1.


What is your definition of a growth stock. I think a growth stock increases it earnings at a rate far higher than inflation, by definition though.

Inflation is 10%, a business has been increasing it earnings or profit by 20% for the past 3 years.

Made N200 million in 2018, N240 million in 2019, N288 million in 2020 and N345.6 million in 2021 and there a probability of sustaining the earning growth.

Very true. But dont you think expecting a company to increase its earnings every year is unattainable? There has to be a point the company would hit market saturation. At that point, does it mean the company is no longer a good company?

emmanuelewumi:



Someone said he invest in assets that shits and vomits.

If e no shit, e must vomit.


If it doesn't experience capital appreciation, it will give cash flow in form of rent, dividends, coupons, royalties, interests

That was Oracle or so in SMN.

afroxyz:


Very true. But dont you think expecting a company to increase its earnings every year is unattainable? There has to be a point the company would hit market saturation. At that point, does it mean the company is no longer a good company?

Earning growth is for a growth stock. At that point it is no longer a growth stock. Growth stocks have a double digits or more PE ratio. Tesla used to have a PE of over 1000. Not sure of the current figures


A company does not have to grow its earnings it will definitely get to a climax, you will consider other variables like dividend yield, earning yield, price earning ratio.

A stock with a flat earning growth for the past 3 years, PE of 5, earning yield of 20% and dividend yield of 15% is not bad. You can reinvest to compound your returns

The intrinsic value of gold is or portends from the fact that all central banks in the world have acknowledged the value of gold as a store of value since time immemorial . So much so that many of them have a portion of their reserves in physical Gold. No central bank recognizes any cryptocurrency as a store of value. Sorry but I do not see that stance ever changing.

afroxyz:


When inflation rises, first assets that get hit a risky and speculative assets. Cryptos and tech stocks fit that bill. When has crypto ever been 'legal'? If you are talking about intrinsic value, please what is the intrinsic value of gold?

Tobex4realTobex234:


Why will anyone invest their life savings in crypto or even any investment of similar risks whatsoever? Always diversify!! As crypto wounded me today, I checked my eurobonds, mutual funds and stocks to confirm that my overall portfolio didn't receive any hit.

I don't have more than 20% of my total investment in crypto. And 10% of this is in stable coins.

Is there a thread on Nl for eurobond. I'm seeking to invest into it but have limited knowledge of it

On a lighter note..

Now I know why CRY is the first three letters in CRYptocurrency.

skydiver01:
The intrinsic value of gold is or portends from the fact that all central banks in the world have acknowledged the value of cold as a store of value since time immemorial . So much so that many of them have a portion of their reserves in physical Gold. No central bank recognizes any cryptocurrency as a store of value. Sorry but I do not see that stance ever changing.

So the central banks decided that gold has intrinsic value, not that Gold has anything has any value to offer. You expect Central bank to recognize the very thing that threatens their existence? Nice try

emmanuelewumi:


Earning growth is for a growth stock. At that point it is no longer a growth stock. Growth stocks have a double digits or more PE ratio. Tesla used to have a PE of over 1000. Not sure of the current figures


A company does not have to grow its earnings it will definitely get to a climax, you will consider other variables like dividend yield, earning yield, price earning ratio.

A stock with a flat earning growth for the past 3 years, PE of 5, earning yield of 20% and dividend yield of 15% is not bad. You can reinvest to compound your returns

Ok. But dont you think that flat earnings woukd definetely tell on the stock price at a point in time cos investors may want to jump the boat.

Time will tell. Take care.

afroxyz:


So the central banks decided that gold has intrinsic value, not that Gold has anything has any value to offer. You expect Central bank to recognize the very thing that threatens their existence? Nice try

afroxyz:


Ok. But dont you think that flat earnings woukd definetely tell on the stock price at a point in time cos investors may want to jump the boat.

A lower stock price, will increase my dividend yield and earning yield.

As earlier said traders focus on the stock price, investors focus on the business and its values.

A house is worth N40 million, the rental income from the property is N3 million and has been flat for the past 3 years. If the price of the property falls to N30 million because of this, will you sell or buy more if you have the cash flow?

OgogoroFreak:

Hmmm

emmanuelewumi:


A lower stock price, will increase my dividend yield and earning yield.

As earlier said traders focus on the stock price, investors focus on the business and its values.

A house is worth N40 million, the rental income from the property is N3 million and has been flat for the past 3 years. If the price of the property falls to N30 million because of this, will you sell or buy more if you have the cash flow?

Always buy the dip of a cash cow. However, a house is diffrent asset class to shares. Going by your post, you are suggesting to buy more shares. Even your dividend yield would reduce in the long run cos the share price of the company would be impacted by the stagnant financial performance

afroxyz:


Always buy the dip of a cash cow. However, a house is diffrent asset class to shares. Going by your post, you are suggesting to buy more shares. Even your dividend yield would reduce in the long run cos the share price of the company would be impacted by the stagnant financial performance

Lower stock price will give you a better dividend yield and earning yield

A stock price at N20, made earning of N4 and paid dividend of N2.

This will give a a price earning ratio of 5, earning yield of 20%, dividend yield of 10%.

If the price should fall to N10, the PE ratio will be 2.5, earning yield of 40% and dividend yield of 20%.


If you see your stock holdings as percentage holdings in a business you will understand, but if you see it as a lottery or gambling ticket you might not understand.


If the business fundamentals and other ratios are good, lower stock prices are good for value investors

afroxyz:


Always buy the dip of a cash cow. However, a house is diffrent asset class to shares. Going by your post, you are suggesting to buy more shares. Even your dividend yield would reduce in the long run cos the share price of the company would be impacted by the stagnant financial performance

How are they different, they both generate cash flow through either rent or dividend, both are acceptable as collateral.


The only difference is liquidity, one can be converted to cash in minutes and the other in weeks

afroxyz:


So the central banks decided that gold has intrinsic value, not that Gold has anything has any value to offer. You expect Central bank to recognize the very thing that threatens their existence? Nice try

How can you say Gold has no intrinsic value?

It is a precious metal, very useful in many different industries. Gold has value, beyond the subjective worth ascribed to it. Same can't be said of Crypto.

It's interesting how people who did not invest in crypt0 are crying more than the bereaved.... I've not seen that happen anywhere..

This chart is just another reminder that this pullback is both healthy and needed and frankly almost insignificant in the grand scheme of things... Like always, sooner or later, a strong market will come back stronger.

A few days ago, I bought at 42k and even added more at 36k... No regrets... Already in profit on some entries.
If we're lucky enough to see bitc0in under 30k, you can be rest assured I'd be selling my boxers to load up....

jedisco:
It's interesting how people who did not invest in crypt0 are crying more than the bereaved.... I've not seen that happen anywhere..

This chart is just another reminder that this pullback is both healthy and needed and frankly almost insignificant in the grand scheme of things... Like always, sooner or later, a strong market will come back stronger.

A few days ago, I bought at 42k and even added more at 36k... No regrets... Already in profit on some entries.
If we're lucky enough to see bitc0in under 30k, you can be rest assured I'd be selling my boxers to load up....

Nobody is crying, we are discussing and comparing business here.

An investor is not emotional nor attached to any particular business. You remain cold and objective, trying to rationally analyze events and assets.

I bought BTC when it was still under 10k, so stop the unnecessary bragging.

Afromentalist:

Nobody is crying, we are discussing and comparing business here.

An investor is not emotional nor attached to any particular business. You remain cold and objective, trying to rationally analyze events and assets.

I bought BeTC when it was still under 10k, so stop the unnecessary bragging.

I am failing to see where I am emotional... I've got investments scattered across a wide range of sectors. When shares or land I buy is not doing well or takes a dip, I don't expect those who think I was foolish in buying shares to come and start goading me... And yes, I'd talk about it cos it's been tge most profitable investment for me over the last 2 years and has helped me increase my stake in other assets.

Many here have called bitc0in investors gamblers and see call it a worthless asset. No problems. To me, that is being emotional. I can't be an investment minded person and be oblivious of the most bullish asset of the last decade. Folks are generally stuck in their ways. I see no reason why people who have no kobo in bitc0in will consistently goad crypt0 investors whenever there is a pullback. It's becoming stale.. The crypt0 market is an uptrending but volatile one.. that's not a discovery... Everyone in it knows that. Any market has ups and downs...
People here have different assets many of which could be in loss. No one comes and starts goading someone whose land they bought is at a loss...

I largely keep off discussions around crypt0 here... But it seems folks here can't keep off it either

jedisco:


I am failing to see where I am emotional... Ive got investments scattered across a wide range of sectors. When shares or land I buy is not doing well or takes a dip, I don't expect those who think I was foolish in buying shares to come and start goading me... And yes, I'd talk about it cos it's been tge most profitable investment for me over the last 2 years and has helped me increase my stake in other assets.

Many here have called bitc0in investors gamblers and see it as a worthless asset. No problems. Folks are generally stuck in their ways. I see no reason why people who have no kobo in bitc0in will consistently goad crypt0 investors whenever there is a pullback. It's becoming stale.. The crypt0 market is an uptrending but volatile one.. that's not a discovery... Everyone in it knows that. Any market has ups and downs...
People here have different assets many of which could be in loss. No one comes and starts goading someone whose land they bought is at a loss...

I largely keep off discussions around crypt0 here... But it seems folks here can't keep off it either

You are taking crypto too personally. You're not the only crypto investor, please. Some of us here are into it too.

IamR:

You are taking crypto too personally. You're not the only crypto investor, please. Some of us here are into it too.

How am I taking it too personal??
By pointing out facts? If I said something wrong, let me know...

Calling me a gambler cos I own bitc0in is what I call 'personal'

The All Share index was introduced in January 1984.

At 100, looking at the current figure of the ASI who can help me with the annualized growth rate of the index from January 1984 to date?

Gambling is not bad, it is a multi billion dollar industry. What happened to National Sports Lottery plc sef.

Just don't spend more than 20% of your free cash on gambling.

5% is ideal for conservative people