Hello House, just want to find out if their could be negative effect by raising the base of a car away from the ground. And what exactly do you adjust when raising the base and is their any alternative means or is their any car that cannot be raise or not advise to raise.
your comments and advice will be helpful

fizzybaba:

@SIENA:

as persuasive as your argument is, am at loss as to the major reason why it shouldn't be done. Lack of technical expertise or the alteration of the centre of gravity?

If the latter, that brings to mind sports utility vehicle. I must admit that car makers advertise the higher roll over risk (see honda crv 2005 model for example), but when a car is lifted slightly, it is still not as high as SUV. relatively, is it still not a safe practice to raise CAR base(s)?

Siena:

Frizzy, I have been in the automobile game for very may years, longer than some people on here have been alive. Besides doing regular servicing and maintenance, I also cater for the aftermarket sector, where a lot of custom / bespoke work is carried out. Between 1994 and 2003, I worked closely with Leda Suspension. Now Leda is a suspension outfit, up there with the likes of Lotus, when it comes to handling, they're up there with the best. Both are consulted by the main auto manufacturers in the world. They also build and design suspension for Motorsport Teams.

I have built systems both for road and off-road use. Raising the suspension of any car, above the stock (non-Sport version) is a recipe for disaster. You raise the ride height, you alter the roll axis, you increase the centre of gravity. On a ratio, a raised VW Golf II will be higher than a Range Rover Sport. Because the RR is wider, if both are compared on a pre-determined scale, the RR will be lower than the Golf, which is a lot narrower. In simple terms, divide the height by the width. SUV manufacturers do their best to counteract the effect of the vehicle's height on handling, by making the track wider and the engine / transmission mounted as low in the chassis as possible.

When a car is lowered, the suspension becomes stiffer. You raise it artificially, it becomes softer - lots of bounce, body roll, not good. Bear in mind, these "raised" cars driving on Nigerian roads have stock anti-roll bars. A VW Golf II 1,3 does NOT have anti-roll bars, raising this is dangerous. We're talking of a lot of metal and weight above the axles. Drive such a car, and have to take evasive action at speeds as low as 25 mph. Then compare the same action with a similar car, with the standard suspension, at a higher speed of 30 mph. Big difference. The "raised" car will have lots of body roll in corners, very unstable. The lower car will handle the altered path better.

I understand the reasons for raising cars in Nigeria - bad roads. But at the same time, the roll-over risk on bad roads, with lots of adverse camber (sideway tilt) is great. All cars have a set "tilt angle". This is how many degrees the car can tilt before the risk of roll over becomes an issue. Raising a car reduces the tilt angle, so assuming the natural tilt angle is 57 degrees, you've effectively reduced it to about 45. This is based upon a car with just the driver. In Nigeria, 6 in a car is common, the risk factor is higher.

What dampers (shock absorbers) will be used on a raised car? The rams are designed to work within a set scale. If the car is raised, the dampers stop working, period. This is why these raised cars have such a harsh, bouncy ride, there's simply too much travel in height for the rams to work. At this increased height, you could remove the dampers, and you wouldn't notice they were gone, it's that bad.

A raised car driven on a fairly smooth road, on a windy day will feel unstable. I don't know how high TMB is, but the effects of cross-winds on a high bridge are greater, even with a standard, or lowered car. With a raised one, the car will have a tendency to "wander", not hold a straight line. Lastly, in Nigeria, the majority of drivers want a car that has as low fuel consumption as possible. A lower car is more streamlined, so less drag at motorway speeds. A raised car will lift at the front at motorway speeds, causing drag and increasing fuel consumption (the steering will also feel light and vague).

Sorry to get technical, but this is what I do, and I'm getting my points across. To cap it all, with a raised car:

01) Higher centre of gravity, greater roll-over risk.
02) Altered roll axis / tilt angle, greater roll-over risk.
03) Less aerodynamic, more drag, front end lifts at motorway speeds, greater fuel consumption.
04) Lateral stability at motorway speeds is reduced, especially if driven in cross-winds.

Siena:


Sorry to get technical, but this is what I do, and I'm getting my points across. To cap it all, with a raised car:

01) Higher centre of gravity, greater roll-over risk.
02) Altered roll axis / tilt angle, greater roll-over risk.
03) Less aerodynamic, more drag, front end lifts at motorway speeds, greater fuel consumption.
04) Lateral stability at motorway speeds is reduced, especially if driven in cross-winds.

Oskilala:

I think i need a Toyota Siena,

baby-boy:

Sienna is right,  


When I had my 320i and I changed the rims to 17inch Momo rims, I felt like I was driving an SUV and on the motorway, at times you could feel the rear drifting and the car was bouncing about, I had to changed the suspension system to a sport one which lowered the car, and the handling was much more better,

campella:

Sienna,
Everything you said is right.

What I want you to understand is that no one is ever willing to adjust his car from the original form.
The bad roads are just the cause of the adjustment.

In this regard, what then do you think can be done to avoid you running to the mech each time you travel?
Please say something as currently, my Toyota Camry is raised to avoid constant exhaust welding.

You input is highly needed.

Somorin#1:

Loads of opinions on this thread, which is a very good one by the way.

To OP, the answer depends on what vehicle we are talking about and to what level you are going to go with your modifications. One caveat, with suspension, one thing affects the other as they are infinitely related. So say you add tires with a bigger circumference as is common in Nigeria, then you've affected the designed sprung weight of the car, many nasty things can occur at speed when the wheels start oscillating up and down since the shocks might not be able to deal with the extra weight of the now bigger tires.

CAR:
Most cars, except for a relative few like the Audi All Road, are not conducive to being raised.

Pick Up Trucks:
Most pick up trucks, especially those with solid axles can easily be raised with a combination of body and suspension lifts. I had a Toyota Pick Up Truck , that I installed a 6 inch body lift, 6 inch suspension lift and the new tires also gave it an additional 4 inches of lift.

Did I affect the center of gravity? Loads! Did I once felt unsafe while driving it? Absolutely not!

So what car are you thinking of raising?

PS: I smile when I see a lot of people with their new fancy cars in Nigeria and wonder how they manage to get around unless they plan their trips carefully.

Siena:

Frizzy, I have been in the automobile game for very may years, longer than some people on here have been alive. Besides doing regular servicing and maintenance, I also cater for the aftermarket sector, where a lot of custom / bespoke work is carried out. Between 1994 and 2003, I worked closely with Leda Suspension. Now Leda is a suspension outfit, up there with the likes of Lotus, when it comes to handling, they're up there with the best. Both are consulted by the main auto manufacturers in the world. They also build and design suspension for Motorsport Teams.

I have built systems both for road and off-road use. Raising the suspension of any car, above the stock (non-Sport version) is a recipe for disaster. You raise the ride height, you alter the roll axis, you increase the centre of gravity. On a ratio, a raised VW Golf II will be higher than a Range Rover Sport. Because the RR is wider, if both are compared on a pre-determined scale, the RR will be lower than the Golf, which is a lot narrower. In simple terms, divide the height by the width. SUV manufacturers do their best to counteract the effect of the vehicle's height on handling, by making the track wider and the engine / transmission mounted as low in the chassis as possible.

When a car is lowered, the suspension becomes stiffer. You raise it artificially, it becomes softer - lots of bounce, body roll, not good. Bear in mind, these "raised" cars driving on Nigerian roads have stock anti-roll bars. A VW Golf II 1,3 does NOT have anti-roll bars, raising this is dangerous. We're talking of a lot of metal and weight above the axles. Drive such a car, and have to take evasive action at speeds as low as 25 mph. Then compare the same action with a similar car, with the standard suspension, at a higher speed of 30 mph. Big difference. The "raised" car will have lots of body roll in corners, very unstable. The lower car will handle the altered path better.

I understand the reasons for raising cars in Nigeria - bad roads. But at the same time, the roll-over risk on bad roads, with lots of adverse camber (sideway tilt) is great. All cars have a set "tilt angle". This is how many degrees the car can tilt before the risk of roll over becomes an issue. Raising a car reduces the tilt angle, so assuming the natural tilt angle is 57 degrees, you've effectively reduced it to about 45. This is based upon a car with just the driver. In Nigeria, 6 in a car is common, the risk factor is higher.

What dampers (shock absorbers) will be used on a raised car? The rams are designed to work within a set scale. If the car is raised, the dampers stop working, period. This is why these raised cars have such a harsh, bouncy ride, there's simply too much travel in height for the rams to work. At this increased height, you could remove the dampers, and you wouldn't notice they were gone, it's that bad.

A raised car driven on a fairly smooth road, on a windy day will feel unstable. I don't know how high TMB is, but the effects of cross-winds on a high bridge are greater, even with a standard, or lowered car. With a raised one, the car will have a tendency to "wander", not hold a straight line. Lastly, in Nigeria, the majority of drivers want a car that has as low fuel consumption as possible. A lower car is more streamlined, so less drag at motorway speeds. A raised car will lift at the front at motorway speeds, causing drag and increasing fuel consumption (the steering will also feel light and vague).

Sorry to get technical, but this is what I do, and I'm getting my points across. To cap it all, with a raised car:

01) Higher centre of gravity, greater roll-over risk.
02) Altered roll axis / tilt angle, greater roll-over risk.
03) Less aerodynamic, more drag, front end lifts at motorway speeds, greater fuel consumption.
04) Lateral stability at motorway speeds is reduced, especially if driven in cross-winds.

Wallie:

+1

I think you meant unsprung weight i.e, weight not supported by the suspension (brakes, tires, wheels, suspension).

our situation is somewhat different and probably happened due to a combination of any of the factors listed below:

1. you increased the overall diameter of the wheel + tire when compared to OEM
2. your tire thread design is prone to drifting
3. you need new suspension especially dampers
4. you increased the weight of the tire/wheel combination which made your OEM suspension show its age
5. you needed an alignment which you probably got when you replaced the suspension

baby-boy:


I dont know what your talking about but nothing was wrong with my suspension and where I bought wheels (Ripspeed) they told me that to have a better feel of the car most especially on the motorway I would have to lower the car and they ordered me a set of sport springs! when I said drifting I dont really mean drift as in sliding through corners but because the height of the car the faster I go the more it seems like its swerving because of the air flowing under the car,  a week later I took my car back and they put on the new springs which lowered the height of the car.

Now a friend of mine bought a brand new Mercedes C200 from Mercedes back in 2003 which came with a 15inc rims and  one of the upgrades he wanted was the wheels to C 32 AMG which were 18inc rims which he paid an extra 400 pounds (plus VAT) and they told him that he would have to drop the height of the car a little just for his safety but they told him that they don't do modification so he took it to a specialist.

icemann:

Yet to hear someone say stuff  about
1.Traction
2.Base with
3.Tire width
4. Axle Angle

In relation to a lift.

Wallie:

Well Siena is right but the answer is not as straight forward as he pointed out!

It all depends on what your goal is. Are you going to change the handling characteristics of the car when you raise it? Sure. But does that mean it will become unsafe? It depends. You can always counter whatever effect your changes made to the car.

For an off-road vehicle, you have no choice but to raise the ride height. If done properly, the car will only become more dangerous in extreme situations. To do it properly, you might need to widen its track, change out the suspension, and/or change the tire size/width.

Also, just because something is OEM does not mean that it is the best. Car manufacturers have to make a lot of compromises based on price, intended usage, warranty, parts availability, weight, ease of replacement, etc. But you can be rest assured that when an OEM part has been tested to work with other parts in your car.

There are certain things that I’m 100% certain are not the best for an economic car. For example, brakes, tires, wheels, and suspension can certainly be improved upon.

The bottom line is that when you change out parts of your car to non-OEM spec parts, you are changing the characteristics of the car for better or worse. More is not always better when it comes to cars because it is a system.

bebrief:

@OP, I think one can justifiably raise the base of his/her car, especially if it was bought fairly-used. For example a 2001 Ki Optima that has been used by the original buyer must have suffered suspension slack over years of use. This wuld have naturally reduced the CofG of the car, making it consume more fuel nd unfit to be driven on bad roads.

One thing you can do if you operate on a slim budget is to pad the shock with a rubber padding. Or better still you can rise the shock by adjusting the welding of the spring to a higher level. This can be done at a good mechanic workshop. However, the best option is to change the entire spring, if you can afford it.

bebrief:

One thing you can do if you operate on a slim budget is to pad the shock with a rubber padding. Or better still you can rise the shock by adjusting the welding of the spring to a higher level. This can be done at a good mechanic workshop. However, the best option is to change the entire spring, if you can afford it.