Roland17:
It looks like clear-out is serious this time and has commenced.

Luiz is leaving
According to DiMarzio, and Fabrizo, Willian does not want to return and is 100% set to leave Arsenal.
Xhaka has commenced negotiations with AS Roma, A Bundesliga is also interested but he looks set to join Mourinho at Roma.

May the spirit of this clear-out not be a smokescreen

Yeah.
Luiz has already given his goodbye speech sef

Well, if the clear outs commence and happens, I'll need to know who is coming in before getting my hopes up.
Also, please they shouldn't renew lacazette contract abeg

Jodera:

1.. only a team that has a coach that's mentally weak will receive 6-0 on the coach's 1000th game in charge from the hands of his fiercest rival. Worst part is that the rival insulted the coach days before the wayar-ing

2... Only a mentally weak team will collect 5-1s back to back to back by from a particular club

3.. Only a mentally weak team will falter once the pressure is much. Arsenal during Wenger always top the table but falter around dec or Feb. It's a norm

I don't want to talk about the Cricket scores we collect from fellow top4 hopefuls.

Bro, If you're still stuck with Wenger of pre 2008 era then that's your luck. I'm not

So Wenger made all those players mentally weak? That is to say that if a player/team is mentally weak then it's the coach that made them so.

I am just trying to get your point.

Jodera:
Why doesn't it make sense?
That you don't want to answer.

Bring facts up let's hear, not just saying "it doesn't make sense"

You cannot attribute two opposites to one causative factor. What makes you sad cannot make you happy. That's logic. See?

Jodera:
Do you even believe what you wrote?
So no better player in the market except injured 31yr old Kim kallstrom?
You're funny

If I am funny to you, then you will laugh at yourself because Wenger/ or any coach do not use his money for shopping players. Plus you buy according to the resources available. He only managed to negotiate a deal without having any serious financial backing. It was a terrible error, but it was reminiscent of the kind of ownership we have rather than the manager himself.

Spy360:

So Wenger made all those players mentally weak? That is to say that if a player/team is mentally weak then it's the coach that made them so.

I am just trying to get your point.

Yes!
A team is the reflection of the coach.
How this is hard for you to understand is what I don't know.

Jodera:
We've seen the worst of Emery then. The Arteta appointment looks like a gamble the board was/is willing to give time

Same way zidane or guardiola is given gambled appointment by both Madrid and barca is the same way Arteta is given such appointment. It's only a matter of time before we know whether the board made wrong decision or not.

Like blueray said, we know Arteta was inexperienced before giving him the job but we still backed him and hope for the best unless he fvxjks up. So to me, I don't see the reason why we should be comparing Arteta with Emery

Arsenal made a decision. That's the same thing I am asking you. Thinking retrospectively, who would you choose between both, that is the simple question.

I had a strong support for the appointment of Arteta. I believed in him. I canvased for him. But I have seen that he wasn't ready to handle the task given him. The board itself didn't help matters with all the politics going on. It was a gamble that failed. I admit mine. He may be given the time to start afresh, but the past year was a failure. A failure that showed when he couldn't beat a weaker team coached by his predecessor.

Spy360:

You cannot attribute two opposites to one causative factor. What makes you sad cannot make you happy. That's logic. See?

time frame matters.
What/who made you sad 3yrs ago can actually be the same thing/person that can make you happy 10yrs later.

Everyone is saying Arteta out now, Arteta is inexperienced and all.

But if by next season, Arteta one way or the other wins the pl and fa cup and the next 2 yrs win the champions league while playing great football, everybody tune will change on how Arteta should be given a life contract.

So would I be wrong to attribute 2 opposite factors about Arteta in years time when describing him?

Jodera:
To me I feel it's the reverse. This squad is poor in quality but have a better attitude compared to their Walcott set.
What killed this squad is quality.

No great Am and weak midfield
No great winger(don't call me Pepe yet please and saka is still too young for the year round hutsle)
No great cf. Declining auba and limited Laca

I'll just say our back is okayy or slightly on par with previous arsenal team.

To me, the lack of quality is glaring but at least the attitude is a bit better

I'd say, the squad lacked balance. There were too many cases of players in positions not suited to them due to lack of expertise in those areas. The quality we found were those of the young lads who discovered themselves. It's still those lads that showed the little attitude we saw.

I'd give Arteta credit for improving our defending, but sticks for killing the attack. He did lack an AM over much of the season, but when he had two (ESR and Odegaard) couldn't use them effectively.

He will have less matches to play next season, and so more time to transmit his ideas. This is the kind of situation that would have suited a rookie like him to kick start his career. If he gets this opportunity, (as it's seeming likely) he should not be spared if we don't stay top 3 by October ending with genuine push for top four.

Spy360:

Arsenal made a decision. That's the same thing I am asking you. Thinking retrospectively, who would you choose between both, that is the simple question.

I had a strong support for the appointment of Arteta. I believed in him. I canvased for him. But I have seen that he wasn't ready to handle the task given him. The board itself didn't help matters with all the politics going on. It was a gamble that failed. I admit mine. He may be given the time to start afresh, but the past year was a failure. A failure that showed when he couldn't beat a weaker team coached by his predecessor.

I still don't get this.
When both didn't have the role initially, Emery was chosen over Arteta. Who would at first choose Arteta over Emery?

Then Emery failed and Arteta was now chosen.
So why then are you asking me if I'm to choose between the two. Emery is past tense, no need bringing Emery up just cos he won us. Emery actually coached us and failed.

What's hard to understand there?

Roland17:
It looks like clear-out is serious this time and has commenced.

Luiz is leaving
According to DiMarzio, and Fabrizo, Willian does not want to return and is 100% set to leave Arsenal.
Xhaka has commenced negotiations with AS Roma, A Bundesliga is also interested but he looks set to join Mourinho at Roma.

May the spirit of this clear-out not be a smokescreen

Na this kind news I wan dey hear ....

But Arterta may want to stop the transfers o

Jodera:
Yes!
A team is the reflection of the coach.
How this is hard for you to understand is what I don't know.

I asked about a team's mentality. Mental strength just as leadership is an individual quality and it is exclusive. The likes of Vieira and Keane were not created by their managers.

If you said Wenger later brought in players that were not mentally strong unlike before, I'd accept.

But if you say, Wenger made them mentally weak, (as if they were mentally strong before) it's not acceptable to me as logical.

I believe the declining state of the club led to attracting less players with good mental strength.

Jodera:
To me I feel it's the reverse. This squad is poor in quality but have a better attitude compared to their Walcott set.
What killed this squad is quality.

No great Am and weak midfield
No great winger(don't call me Pepe yet please and saka is still too young for the year round hutsle)
No great cf. Declining auba and limited Laca

I'll just say our back is okayy or slightly on par with previous arsenal team.

To me, the lack of quality is glaring but at least the attitude is a bit better

Na true sha, No much quality Auba's attitude alone is super terrible.

Jodera:
time frame matters.
What/who made you sad 3yrs ago can actually be the same thing/person that can make you happy 10yrs later.

Everyone is saying Arteta out now, Arteta is inexperienced and all.

But if by next season, Arteta one way or the other wins the pl and fa cup and the next 2 yrs win the champions league while playing great football, everybody tune will change on how Arteta should be given a life contract.

So would I be wrong to attribute 2 opposite factors about Arteta in years time when describing him?

Brother you did not get my analogy. I said one causative factor cannot produce two opposite feelings. For example, if I slap you and it makes you angry, the same slap cannot make you happy even if it's in another time frame.

The same Wenger's methods that produced strong mentality cannot produce weak mentality years after.

The issue of player mentality have been dealt with in my previous post.

Cheers!

Jodera:
I still don't get this.
When both didn't have the role initially, Emery was chosen over Arteta. Who would at first choose Arteta over Emery?

Then Emery failed and Arteta was now chosen.
So why then are you asking me if I'm to choose between the two. Emery is past tense, no need bringing Emery up just cos he won us. Emery actually coached us and failed.

What's hard to understand there?

That's what I am saying. The problem is us not Emery. Until we get it right, any coach that comes will fail. So let's not paint Emery as a failure because very few coaches will succeed under this setup.

Spy360:

That's what I am saying. The problem is us not Emery. Until we get it right, any coach that comes will fail. So let's not paint Emery as a failure because very few coaches will succeed under this setup.

Then let's get those coaches.
Emery is a failure here, no how una wan paint am

Spy360:

Brother you did not get my analogy. I said one causative factor cannot produce two opposite feelings. For example, if I slap you and it makes you angry, the same slap cannot make you happy even if it's in another time frame.

The same Wenger's methods that produced strong mentality cannot produce weak mentality years after.

The issue of player mentality have been dealt with in my previous post.

Cheers!

Lol, if you don't know a player who's mentally strong but is team mates with those who's mentally weak will with time become mentally weak?
You think it's just luck or coincidence arsene buys mentally weak players and someone like guardiola klopp or simeone buys mentally strong players?
Nah!!! I'll it's not possible

Fkhalifa:

Na true sha, No much quality Auba's attitude alone is super terrible.

Yeah... Auba attitude is damn weak

Spy360:

I'd say, the squad lacked balance. There were too many cases of players in positions not suited to them due to lack of expertise in those areas. The quality we found were those of the young lads who discovered themselves. It's still those lads that showed the little attitude we saw.

I'd give Arteta credit for improving our defending, but sticks for killing the attack. He did lack an AM over much of the season, but when he had two (ESR and Odegaard) couldn't use them effectively.

He will have less matches to play next season, and so more time to transmit his ideas. This is the kind of situation that would have suited a rookie like him to kick start his career. [b]If he gets this opportunity, (as it's seeming likely) he should not be spared if we don't stay top 3 by October ending with genuine push for top fou[/b]r.

I buy this opinion.
Fingers crossed on Arteta tho

Jodera:
Lol, if you don't know a player who's mentally strong but is team mates with those who's mentally weak will with time become mentally weak?
You think it's just luck or coincidence arsene buys mentally weak players and someone like guardiola klopp or simeone buys mentally strong players?
Nah!!! I'll it's not possible

No. It's neither luck nor coincidence, it's money. Ego.

You see a player like Harland? Go price am na, then you will know.

Jodera:
Then let's get those coaches.
Emery is a failure here, no how una wan paint am

We should get those coaches eh? Lol. So that you will then tag them failures when things don't work, the same way you are tagging a serial winner like Emery a failure.

I promise you change.
-Buhari (2015)

Change begins with you.
-Buhari (2019)

Spy360:

You made valid points here, in that Wenger made the board comfortable, making UCL spot year on year despite very poor investments.

Should we blame Wenger for sticking to the club he loves or blame him for still finishing top four and making the board comfortable?

I won't blame him for that bro. Like I said, he was partially at fault. By the way, Wenger still remain one of my best manager so I have nothing against him.

Jodera:
Lol... Nothing pain me reach 2015/2016 season. The season where we had peak ozil, peak Sanchez, peak cazorla, peak coquelin. Defence not bad. What was just sorely needed was a good striker to feed off ozil Sanchez and cazorla creativity, but what did he do? He brought in injured Kim kardashian kallstrom. Average below par sub standard Giroud our stiker went on goal drought for a month plus if not more and our title ambition disappeared. Yet they will say we're still building stadium and paying Emirates debt. Laughable

Bro..that season still dey do me somehow. All we needed then was a good striker. With a decent striker, we would have won the league.

mostob:
I won't blame him for that bro. Like I said, he was partially at fault. By the Wenger still remain one of my best manager so I have nothing against him.

I blame Wenger for not quitting in 2006. At least it would not give people the opportunity to castigate him.

Spy360:

That's what I am saying. The problem is us not Emery. Until we get it right, any coach that comes will fail. So let's not paint Emery as a failure because very few coaches will succeed under this setup.

Factual facts I've been driving at.

Spy360:

We should get those coaches eh? Lol. So that you will then tag them failures when things don't work, the same way you are tagging a serial winner like Emery a failure.

I promise you change.
-Buhari (2015)

Change begins with you.
-Buhari (2019)

Those coaches will never take the job, only youth corpers will.

Jodera:
True.... He got potential

I just hope he prove us all wrong this coming season sha. Read on a popular tabloid that arsenal is 3rd on the table when the starts ranking from the 24th of December to 23rd of may
Also, that's the time our play considerably improved. So I'm just a bit hopeful

On a side note, I still have a pending discussion with you. But I'll bring it up after I've done my season's rating this weekend

Am of the opinion that if a squad is okay they will still go far irrespective of the coach appointed unless the coach philosophy is not similar to that of the squad he met on ground which reverse will b the case.

Coach is easier to b freed of his appointment while that of players is very hard. I don't know why some fans are putting larger blame on Emery for loosing to Chelsea in Baku whereas reverse seems to b the case.

The reason I started supporting Emery after his sack is/was I realised majority of these players lack basic things footballer should possessed.

It's not coincidence when Emery took charge there's massive improvement and of all sudden they dropped drastically same as Arteta. I think we have to start questioning these players because of our sanity.

Lastly, the whole crap is on the owner who failed to state what they want from both players and coaches. Fkhalifah said and I quote he said "Chelsea as a case study shows what ambitious team does from the owner down to the players want to carry Trophy back2back failure from either coach or players they are shown the exit door irrespective of what you acquired for the team in the past" is it same with Arsenal NO if we fail to tackle the problem from the root source (owner) we will still b dangling inside the problem.

Jodera:
To me I feel it's the reverse. This squad is poor in quality but have a better attitude compared to their Walcott set.
What killed this squad is quality.

No great Am and weak midfield
No great winger(don't call me Pepe yet please and saka is still too young for the year round hutsle)
No great cf. Declining auba and limited Laca

I'll just say our back is okayy or slightly on par with previous arsenal team.

To me, the lack of quality is glaring but at least the attitude is a bit better

I agree on that of quality but strongly disagree on that of attitude. Maybe you are looking at it from the Young players perspective Tierney included.

Akinbahm:


I agree on that of quality but strongly disagree on that of attitude. Maybe you are looking at it from the Young players perspective Tierney included.

Looking deeply at the squad, you're right

Akinbahm:


Am of the opinion that if a squad is okay they will still go far irrespective of the coach appointed unless the coach philosophy is not similar to that of the squad he met on ground which reverse will b the case.

Coach is easier to b freed of his appointment while that of players is very hard. ]I don't know why some fans are putting larger blame on Emery for loosing to Chelsea in Baku whereas reverse seems to b the case.

The reason I started supporting Emery after his sack is/was I realised majority of these players lack basic things footballer should possessed.

It's not coincidence when Emery took charge there's massive improvement and of all sudden they dropped drastically same as Arteta. I think we have to start questioning these players because of our sanity.

Lastly, the whole crap is on the owner who failed to state what they want from both players and coaches. Fkhalifah said and I quote he said "Chelsea as a case study shows what ambitious team does from the owner down to the players want to carry Trophy back2back failure from either coach or players they are shown the exit door irrespective of what you acquired for the team in the past" is it same with Arsenal NO if we fail to tackle the problem from the root source (owner) we will still b dangling inside the problem.

I very very much agree our owner is the main issue. Yes.
But a good coach with good players can mask a lot of things.
But I disagree with the fact that any coach with an Okay squad will go far. I think you're underestimating the impact of coach in a team. You see that present man city squad, I assure you give Ole or Nuno espirito that squad and they won't win the league or be dominant the way guardiola is. That's just an example of the impactful a coach is.

As for Emery, while it's not his fault that he failed at arsenal (bought him pepe instead of zaha and sold iwobi one of his most used players), but then he made us worse than what we initially are.
I don't blame him for the final loss, in fact till this day na curse I dey curse kolasinac cos he was the one who sold that final in the first half.
Anyways, I just hope the board is changed and those our invincible team and Ek take over. Till then I'll be watching to see how Arteta fares next season

mostob:
Bro..that season still dey do me somehow. All we needed then was a good striker. With a decent striker, we would have won the league.

I tell you bro.
Just painful

Spy360:

We should get those coaches eh? Lol. So that you will then tag them failures when things don't work, the same way you are tagging a serial winner like Emery a failure.

I promise you change.
-Buhari (2015)

Change begins with you.
-Buhari (2019)

Serial winner like Emery? Aside Europa a second rated European cup, what has he won??
He'll avoid the likes of Bayern and barca in UCL just to meet otelul galati and Wimbledon in Europa. Then meet an average league club side in s/f and final before winning that's what you're calling serial winner?
In Spain, how many times has he jostled for league with Madrid and barca?
How many times has he even reach copa del Rey final sef?
If not PSG that boost his CV that made arsenal sign him, you think the board would have looked his back?
Please Emery is an average coach for average club like Everton, west Ham and sort. He'll do well with them without much pressure and less league involvement and he knows how to navigate Europa cup competitions cos he knows it's just sf and final he'll need to be tactically right.
Come on, abeg make we no dey too hype this Emery abeg.

Spy360:

No. It's neither luck nor coincidence, it's money. Ego.

You see a player like Harland? Go price am na, then you will know.

Na only haland and him type dey market?

How much was ferran Torres again? You want to tell me someone like ferran Torres can't enter first 11 in our squad?
When we start to look for 100m players instead of effective players that can come relatively cheap why won't we be in this mess.
Is partey not relatively cheap?

Two of some of our best signings this past decade came relatively cheap. Sanchez and cazorla.