1Sharon:


Nothing stops Nigeria from going back to their original borders and boundaries.

Germany was divided into east and west, and they didn't accept that.

What is stopping Nigeria from reversing everything the colonizers did?

How long will they keep blaming white people?

The fact they still keep calling the foolish Luggard Lord should tell you they have no concept of what a 'citizen' is, talk less a country. They have never really thought about the label Shaw designed for them, and how they came to pick that label on earth. They have no imagination to see passports designed by them for them, governments designed by them for them, religions designed by them for them.

It's a good idea to think that Africa will find its feet.. but I struggle to see any limbs, talk less of feet.

iSpirit1:


This is one of the verses that have led many (including you) to believe that God is evil.

To start with, being evil is against every attribute of God, because GOD IS LOVE.

But, how do we explain this in the light of Isaiah 45:7? It is very important to understand the concept of Original Sin.God created Lucifer (who became Satan) as a result of MISUSAGE OF FREEWILL. So, in other words Isaiah 45:7 is correct, because God created Lucifer


It's one thing to read a verse, it's another to understand it and interpret it inline with every other verse. Cause ultimately, there's no contradiction in the inspired Scriptures.

@ the bolded. Exactly. So what's your point ?

Lucifer and Satan are not the same thing by the way.

HappyPagan:

Would like to see these statistics you posted. And I wonder why you'd be posting Christian vs Muslim statistics. You african children of Abraham are both mad...

You want to see the statistics that proves my point?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273159/most-peaceful-countries-in-the-global-peace-index/.

Shows Statistics of Top 20 most peaceful countries in the world. Top 6 are Christian dominated countries. 7 out of the Top 10 are Christian dominated countries. I hope this is enough to convince you that Christian dominated countries are the most peaceful.

HappyPagan:

Maybe the dead Gods are powerless. The ones who exist today will die too. Just like Jesus did on that cross..

Jesus died at AD 32/33 but he's still alive up till today. Not obsolete. Of how many gods can you say the same?

HappyPagan:
And this knowledge and truth you sought, how far did it lead you? How far did you go? Did you do rituals? Did you eat human flesh atop a mountain in the early hours of a late December harmattan morning?

.

I stated my methodology - Studying. Stop digressing from the crux.

HappyPagan:
How many Gods do you know? How many African Gods do you know? You've probably read the Bible more times than any other religious book.. wouldnt that suggest a bias for Jesus?

You studied extensively... I agree. A lot of time studying fables and myth isn't too healthy. The myths become real, sometimes even realer than life.

That claim is not right. Do you do how many religious books I've read? You surely have no idea of my journey to this point of my life. And it's not smart making such claims about someone you know nothing about.

HappyPagan:
Bro, that's my mission here. To bring doubt to the minds of the African children of Abraham.

You still haven't said anything worthwhile, that one might consider to be a concrete reason to doubt the realness of the God of the Bible.

See Screenshots.

iSpirit1:


You want to see the statistics that proves my point?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273159/most-peaceful-countries-in-the-global-peace-index/.

Shows Statistics of Top 20 most peaceful countries in the world. Top 6 are Christian dominated countries. 7 out of the Top 10 are Christian dominated countries. I hope this is enough to convince you that Christian dominated countries are the most peaceful.




Jesus died at AD 32/33 but he's still alive up till today. Not obsolete. Of how many gods can you say the same?


.

I stated my methodology - Studying. Stop digressing from the crux.



That claim is not right. Do you do how many religious books I've read? You surely have no idea of my journey to this point of my life. And it's not smart making such claims about someone you know nothing about.




You still haven't said anything worthwhile, that one might consider to be a concrete reason to doubt the realness of the God of the Bible.

See Screenshots.

Lol those countries are not Christian in the sense there is separation of church and state and they are only nominal Christians and not practising.

You really think those ppl practise Christianity in the way Nigerians do? You haven't got a clue.

Now to be a true Christian, you must practise the religion don't you?

HappyPagan:

Without God, no Satan. Satan supplies the poison, God sells a fake cure. If I sell you bike wey get freewill, you go ride am?

We are not bikes and God and Satan are not riding anybody, so your example has no bearing with our discussion here.

God did not create Satan. Read my comment well. God created Lucifer. Lucifer had freewill, and chose to become evil. The same way we all have freewill to be either good or evil.

HappyPagan:
Your God is a very evil spirit.. that God of Israel, that one that Abraham worshipped... very evil...

Unfounded claim. You have not posted any proof for this. Until then, be careful what you say, cause every idle word is going to be judged.

1Sharon:


On one hand it was it God against Israel, on the other it was Satan.

You are indirectly implying it was Satan all along and not God that went against Israel, am I right or wrong?

Who went against Israel, God or Satan?

i have clearly stated what I intend saying. It is you who desires to put in what is not there.

I have explained 3 times now a 4th time.

Satan is the Doer of Wickedness and evil and Unless God interferes or Stops him, evil will be done to anyone, anywhere anytime, anyday.

All it takes for evil to happen is for God to Remove His Hand from the Protected.

Therefore, When God Loves A person or group of people, He Covers that person with His Hand from Satan. (Samuel)

When that person Annoys Him, He Removes His Hand and Satan Moves in for the kill. (Chronicles).

That's all.

1Sharon:


@ the bolded. Exactly. So what's your point ?

Lucifer and Satan are not the same thing by the way.

I mean, "God created evil" should be understood in the context that "God created Lucifer" not "God is evil". God is not evil. He is good, and created good things. But, the good that God created transformed itself to Evil because God gave it Freewill.

And yeah, Lucifer and Satan are not the same. Because it was Lucifer God created, and not Satan. Had Lucifer remained the way God created him, Satan wouldn't evil. But, Satan came to being because Lucifer chose evil.

1Sharon:
Lol those countries are not Christian in the sense there is separation of church and state and they are only nominal Christians and not practising.

What do you mean those countries are not Christians? Please explain yourself. They said they are Christians, you said they are not. . How farther can this be from fact and truth? Na wah for people ooo! All in an attempt you argue, you have to redefine someone to suit your argument.

1Sharon:
You really think those ppl practise Christianity in the way Nigerians do? You haven't got a clue.

I do not remember saying Christianity is the way Nigerians practice it. What exactly are you reading? No nation is the Christian standard. But, for that the most peaceful countries are Christian dominated means that the Christians in those countries got a lot of things right.

1Sharon:
Now to be a true Christian, you must practise the religion don't you?

Ultimately, to be a Christian, you must be like Jesus. Keep the commandments of Jesus Christ. Christianity is all about Jesus Christ.

iSpirit1:


I mean, "God created evil" should be understood in the context that "God created Lucifer" not "God is evil". God is not evil. He is good, and created good things. But, the good that God created transformed itself to Evil because God gave it Freewill.

And yeah, Lucifer and Satan are not the same. Because it was Lucifer God created, and not Satan. Had Lucifer remained the way God created him, Satan wouldn't evil. But, Satan came to being because Lucifer chose evil.

How then can one explain an evil spirit from GOd tormenting saul?

Here below;

1 Samuel 16:14-23

14 Now the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him. 15And Saul’s servants said to him, ‘See now, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you.

iSpirit1:


What do you mean those countries are not Christians? Please explain yourself. They said they are Christians, you said they are not. . How farther can this be from fact and truth? Na wah for people ooo! All in an attempt you argue, you have to redefine someone to suit your argument

I do not remember saying Christianity is the way Nigerians practice it. What exactly are you reading? No nation is the Christian standard. But, for that the most peaceful countries are Christian dominated means that the Christians in those countries got a lot of things right.
Ultimately, to be a Christian, you must be like Jesus. Keep the commandments of Jesus Christ. Christianity is all about Jesus Christ.

Exactly..Now these people are not practising Christians. They are simply nominal Christians.

iSpirit1:


I mean, "God created evil" should be understood in the context that "God created Lucifer" not "God is evil". God is not evil. He is good, and created good things. But, the good that God created transformed itself to Evil because God gave it Freewill.

And yeah, Lucifer and Satan are not the same. Because it was Lucifer God created, and not Satan. Had Lucifer remained the way God created him, Satan wouldn't evil. But, Satan came to being because Lucifer chose evil.

And God knew that Satan will be evil didn't he??

But went ahead and still created him. So God is responsible as he knew about it, yet did nothing.

Dtruthspeaker:


i have clearly stated what I intend saying. It is you who desires to put in what is not there.

I have explained 3 times now a 4th time.

Satan is the Doer of Wickedness and evil and Unless God interferes or Stops him, evil will be done to anyone, anywhere anytime, anyday.

All it takes for evil to happen is for God to Remove His Hand from the Protected.

Therefore, When God Loves A person or group of people, He Covers that person with His Hand from Satan. (Samuel)

When that person Annoys Him, He Removes His Hand and Satan Moves in for the kill. (Chronicles).

That's all.

Who went against Israel, God or Satan??

Answer the question.

1Sharon:

All religions are not peaceful.

I'm telling you that religion involves humans like you and myself, nobody will wake up and start hunting his neighbours simply because some unseen supernatural being asked us to do so.

It's Politicians who are instigating people to support them in killing their opposers. So they are the ones masquerading as worshipers to perpetrate their evil desires!

MaxInDHouse:

I'm telling you that religion involves humans like you and myself, [b]nobody will wake up and start hunting his neighbours simply because some unseen supernatural being asked us to do s[/b]o.

Funny.. the Bible you read provides a lot of examples for this. But I guess you have some fanciful explanation you are ready to throw at us if need be.

David, for example, was a good hunter.. of animals, men..... And women.

MaxInDHouse:

It's Politicians who are instigating people to support them in killing their opposers. So they are the ones masquerading as worshipers to perpetrate their evil desires!

And God is watching the masquerades. He must be entertained.. either ways you seem more concerned about those who point out the masquerades, than the actual masquerades themselves. Like the average Nigerian, you create imaginary scenarios to avoid the problem that exists before you. Or maybe na God go handle their matter... You are not judge fellow brethren after, only the non-brethen.. the others . The one you are better than .

Treat matters with intelligence.

If religion is wiped out politicians will still finds ways to instigate you to kill your fellowman for him, all he needs is prove to you that his opponent is the problem hindering you from living good and the next thing is you join his fans in helping him to kill his opponent.

Religion, Money, Women, Position and Motivational speeches are instruments in the hands of politicians. For now religion is the hot deal, once religion is no more working they'll switch over to other means.
So don't be fooled. It's people planning to dominate people that's killing others not someone who wants to worship some unseen supernatural being!

HappyPagan:

Funny.. the Bible you read provides a lot of examples for this. But I guess you have some fanciful explanation you are ready to throw at us if need be.
David, for example, was a good hunter.. of animals, men..... And women.
And God is watching the masquerades. He must be entertained.. either ways you seem more concerned about those who point out the masquerades, than the actual masquerades themselves. Like the average Nigerian, you create imaginary scenarios to avoid the problem that exists before you. Or maybe na God go handle their matter... You are not judge fellow brethren after, only the non-brethen.. the others . The one you are better than.

1Sharon:
And God knew that Satan will be evil didn't he??

Are you listening to yourself? If he knew the choices that Lucifer was going to make, where then is FREEWILL? The attribute you're giving to God is one of the most evil attribute that humans have given to God for all times.

See here, God doesn't know the choices we are going to make. He only knows the result of whatever choices we make. That's what the Omniscient attribute of God entail.

We can see a clear picture of this when God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to Him. When Abraham yielded, God said, "Now I know that you truly love me". This shows that God did not know beforehand that Abraham would obey Him.

1Sharon:
But went ahead and still created him. So God is responsible as he knew about it, yet did nothing.

Your problem here is that you're attributing to God what he didn't claim to have. Know God first before you think you can say anything about His personality and attributes.

1Sharon:


Who went against Israel, God or Satan??

Answer the question.

I have answered the question 5 Times and it is not my fault if you can not get past the Answer and unable to raise any reasonable query therefrom

1Sharon:
Exactly..Now these people are not practising Christians. They are simply nominal Christians.

Exactly what? They are not practicing Christians because they are peaceful? Does being like Christ require one to be violent? Was Jesus violent towards opposition?

Like I said, for the result they achieved (being peaceful), they got a lot right.

iSpirit1:

The attribute you're giving to God is one of the most evil attribute that humans have given to God for all times.

She is an Eve-thing, you can not expect the daughter of Satan t to say anything Good about God,.

She is Marked and shut out from the Kingdom of God as Written and so No Life for her, therefore she is here to shake and make any who is not Truly Founded in Christ to Fall!

Do not waste your strength trying to change her, God has Rejected her as God Rejected David's brothers.

1Sharon:


@ the bolded. Exactly. So what's your point ?

Lucifer and Satan are not the same thing by the way.

Satan means the adversary and just a like an adjective for devil or Lucifer. Christ means the saviour and so Jesus Christ mean "Jesus the saviour".

CharisEleos:


He is the I am that I am. He does as He pleases.

Can you have it if a pot you moulded tells you it doesn't like the way you moulded it? I'm sure your reaction would be worse.
I'm sure you'd just crush it with your feet.

Go and read the book of job and see where God made him understand who He is and his supremacy over everything he has created.

You better thank God for Jesus. Mind you, God, being a loving father still manifested himself in the person of Jesus to save you and I. So instead of sitting there judging your maker, I'll advise you embrace Him and the works he did for you on the cross of Calvary.

God loves his creation. HE IS A GOOD GOD.

If a pot I moulded spoke then I'd be very happy to remould it because it means I am a powerful god that can mould talking pots. LoLz

1Sharon:


Only abrahamic religions do that. Pagan religions are peaceful.

I have looked through a compilation of the history of war and it is interesting to note that before the advent of Christianity and Islam there was no record of a war of religion or one where religion was the main cause.

iSpirit1:


I mean, "God created evil" should be understood in the context that "God created Lucifer" not "God is evil". God is not evil. He is good, and created good things. But, the good that God created transformed itself to Evil because God gave it Freewill.

And yeah, Lucifer and Satan are not the same. Because it was Lucifer God created, and not Satan. Had Lucifer remained the way God created him, Satan wouldn't evil. But, Satan came to being because Lucifer chose evil.

Wait so something can create itself without your god's help? Wow this is interesting tell me more.

LordReed:


I have looked through a compilation of the history of war and it is interesting to note that before the advent of Christianity and Islam there was no record of a war of religion or one where religion was the main cause.

Sorry my Lord, but you are wrong.

First, what you call "war of religion" is really simply a war because of irreconcilable differences in ideologies.

Pre-religious ideological wars would have been fought between homosapiens and neanderthals, and the three Nahua altepetl city-states: Mexico-Tenochtitlan, Tetzcoco, and Tlacopan fought between themselves despite neither Christianity and Islam adventing amongst them, as did numerous warring factions in pre-Christian and pre-Islamic ancient China, and ancient Rome, and ancient Greece, and ancient my own pre-Christian and pre-Islamic Yoruba Land.

Point is, there is a lot of record of war that had absolutely nothing to do with religion, because we know we humans have gone to war over water, and land, both of which have absolutely nothing to do with religion. Even the first and second world wars were not religious wars since they were in fact mostly wars between those of one single religion.

1Sharon:


Nothing stops Nigeria from going back to their original borders and boundaries.

Germany was divided into east and west, and they didn't accept that.

What is stopping Nigeria from reversing everything the colonizers did?

How long will they keep blaming white people?

Nothing will change in the new countries. The same people, with same values in different countries. When APC was being voted in, many collected ₦5,000, ₦10,000
Satchel of salt, sugar to bring in bad leaders.(may be you were among). God is not to blame for bad governance.
Germany was once like Nigeria, Otto Von Bismarck, almagamated the different ethnic entities. Same for UK, China, India under good leaders like Oliver Cromwell, Chairman Mao Zedong, Mahatma Gandhi. The natural disaster of black people is bad leaders. You feel you can do something different if given opportunity, I doubt it. The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves..... W. Shakespeare.

budaatum:


Sorry my Lord, but you are wrong.

First, what you call "war of religion" is really simply a war because of irreconcilable differences in ideologies.

Pre-religious ideological wars would have been fought between homosapiens and neanderthals, and the three Nahua altepetl city-states: Mexico-Tenochtitlan, Tetzcoco, and Tlacopan fought between themselves despite neither Christianity and Islam adventing amongst them, as did numerous warring factions in pre-Christian and pre-Islamic ancient China, and ancient Rome, and ancient Greece, and ancient my own pre-Christian and pre-Islamic Yoruba Land.

Point is, there is a lot of record of war that had absolutely nothing to do with religion, because we know we humans have gone to war over water, and land, both of which have absolutely nothing to do with religion. Even the first and second world wars were not religious wars since they were in fact mostly wars between those of one single religion.

I'm sorry buda but you are wrong. If we simply broaden definitions till everything fits in one big circle then there is no point in making distinctions. No war of idealogy was over religion, simple. What you are saying is like someone saying there has never been a cyber war until the advent of supercomputers then you say no the person is wrong because war must always have a theater so it doesn't matter that its a cyber war. There is a reason for definitions and distinctions, waving your hands will not wish them away.

LordReed:


I'm sorry buda but you are wrong. If we simply broaden definitions till everything fits in one big circle then there is no point in making distinctions. No war of idealogy was over religion, simple.

But that is not true. Since religion is an ideology, all religious wars are wars of ideology.

LordReed:

What you are saying is like someone saying there has never been a cyber war until the advent of supercomputers then you say no the person is wrong because war must always have a theater so it doesn't matter that its a cyber war.

No, my Lord, your analogy is upside down and the wrong way round. For it is you who is claiming there were no wars when there were no supercomputers.

I am saying "there have always been wars", and since there have always been wars there have always been reasons (ideologies including religion) for the wars, and theatres (cyber, on the battlefield or in the mind), which change with the time. And calling them theatres alone shows they are not a cause but just the field, while the god can just be a tool similar to a bow and arrow or a nuclear bomb in some instances, or the cause of the war, as in that fought by the Crusaders and the Islamic Jihadists (though I say cause with reservations because I believe the religion is just a cloak for the wars).

There were wars before Islam or Christianity, my Lord. Caesar was a warlord going about conquering everywhere, and neither Islam nor Christianity nor cyber had nothing to do with any of it. The Greek states fought numerous wars amongst themselves and religion was not the cause, but actually a tool that was used to fight the wars just as the God was a tool used to attack the walls of Jericho and not that which was fought over.

LordReed:

There is a reason for definitions and distinctions, waving your hands will not wish them away.

You know I'll therefore ask you not to wave your hands, don't you my Lord. lol.

All wars were ideological. And religion is just one ideology that wars were fought over, and the fact that you "looked through a compilation of the history of war" and found no record simply means it was either not recorded where you looked, or rather and more accurately, you have not yet considered that all wars are wars of ideologies of which religion is just one.

Consider the following. Mao fought a war of ideology as did Hitler and neither ideology fits the definition of religion. Caesar and the Greek States that I have mentioned above and Constantine the Great fought ideological wars too and used religion as a tool.

Its a case of which is a subset and which is the whole, and I am suggesting that religion fits into ideologies and not the other way around.

budaatum:

But that is not true. Since religion is an ideology, all religious wars are wars of ideology.


No, my Lord, your analogy is upside down and the wrong way round. For it is you who is claiming there were no wars when there were no supercomputers.

I am saying "there have always been wars", and since there have always been wars there have always been reasons (ideologies including religion) for the wars, and theatres (cyber, on the battlefield or in the mind), which change with the time. And calling them theatres alone shows they are not a cause but just the field, while the god can just be a tool similar to a bow and arrow or a nuclear bomb in some instances, or the cause of the war, as in that fought by the Crusaders and the Islamic Jihadists (though I say cause with reservations because I believe the religion is just a cloak for the wars).

There were wars before Islam or Christianity, my Lord. Caesar was a warlord going about conquering everywhere, and neither Islam nor Christianity nor cyber had nothing to do with any of it. The Greek states fought numerous wars amongst themselves and religion was not the cause, but actually a tool that was used to fight the wars just as the God was a tool used to attack the walls of Jericho and not that which was fought over.


You know I'll therefore ask you not to wave your hands, don't you my Lord. lol.

All wars were ideological. And religion is just one ideology that wars were fought over, and the fact that you "looked through a compilation of the history of war" and found no record simply means it was either not recorded where you looked, or rather and more accurately, you have not yet considered that all wars are wars of ideologies of which religion is just one.

Consider the following. Mao fought a war of ideology as did Hitler and neither ideology fits the definition of religion. Caesar and the Greek States that I have mentioned above and Constantine the Great fought ideological wars too and used religion as a tool.

Its a case of which is a subset and which is the whole, and I am suggesting that religion fits into ideologies and not the other way around.

I dunno why you bother writing coherent sentences since typing hahzvgfjrbdbbdhfbfbdj would have worked as well, according to you they are all letters.

LordReed:


I dunno why you bother writing coherent sentences since typing hahzvgfjrbdbbdhfbfbdj would have worked as well, according to you they are all letters.

You very well know, my Lord, that the reason I "bother writing coherent sentences" is in order to be understood! And there is nowhere I said hahzvgfjrbdbbdhfbfbdj are all letters my Lord, though they might be, but you know it is not coherent unlike my response which you've described as coherent but which I feel is rather far too complex for you at this moment. But if you went back to your initial statement you'd see how its complexity might befuddle even you who wrote it, because it is as complex as my response but incorrect once deciphered.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm,
The Mighty Sparrow!
Well the only thing stopping you from seeing the light is the rebellious heart otherwise you could have seen that any religion that's able to change people under it's umbrella to peace loving and law abiding citizens is the one and only religion having the spirit of God! Isaiah 2:2-4
Just as you've said, this is not about God but Nigerians and the way we've developed our thinking over the years!

MightySparrow:

Nothing will change in the new countries. The same people, with same values in different countries. When APC was being voted in, many collected ₦5,000, ₦10,000
Satchel of salt, sugar to bring in bad leaders.(may be you were among). God is not to blame for bad governance.
Germany was once like Nigeria, Otto Von Bismarck, almagamated the different ethnic entities. Same for UK, China, India under good leaders like Oliver Cromwell, Chairman Mao Zedong, Mahatma Gandhi. The natural disaster of black people is bad leaders. You feel you can do something different if given opportunity, I doubt it. The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves..... W. Shakespeare.

budaatum:


You very well know, my Lord, that the reason I "bother writing coherent sentences" is in order to be understood! And there is nowhere I said hahzvgfjrbdbbdhfbfbdj are all letters my Lord, though they might be, but you know it is not coherent unlike my response which you've described as coherent but which I feel is rather far too complex for you at this moment. But if you went back to your initial statement you'd see how its complexity might befuddle even you who wrote it, because it is as complex as my response but incorrect once deciphered.

I too wrote very coherently about how no war of religion is on record before the advent of Christianity and Islam but you want me to loose coherence by just blurring the lines and lumping every war into a single category. I suggest you apply the same tactic with your letters, just blur everything into a pile of letters, maybe even simplify it by making a single stream of mmmmmmmmm's. Or we could also tell people who go to the doctor and are prescribed medicine for kidney or liver problems to just go take Panadol, after all they are all medicine.

Distinctions exist for a purpose, you shouldn't be telling me ignore distinctions or else you're imploring me to loose coherence. You don't want that my dear buda, no you don't.

MightySparrow:

Nothing will change in the new countries. The same people, with same values in different countries. When APC was being voted in, many collected ₦5,000, ₦10,000
Satchel of salt, sugar to bring in bad leaders.(may be you were among). God is not to blame for bad governance.
Germany was once like Nigeria, Otto Von Bismarck, almagamated the different ethnic entities. Same for UK, China, India under good leaders like Oliver Cromwell, Chairman Mao Zedong, Mahatma Gandhi. The natural disaster of black people is bad leaders. You feel you can do something different if given opportunity, I doubt it. The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves..... W. Shakespeare.

I concur. We have vision less and spineless leaders who do not have the fortitude to do what is right for our collective future. The people in other lands don't have 2 heads or auxiliary brains, it's the same 1 head 1 brain we all have but those guys put their brain into gear while we like to contemplate the colour of the hair on our arses.