LordReed:


I too wrote very coherently about how no war of religion is on record before the advent of Christianity and Islam

So, my Lord, the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanomachy#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DIn_Greek_mythology%2C_the_Titanomachy%2Cgenerations%2C_who_would_come_to?wprov=sfla1]Titans fighting against the Olympians[/url] is not record enough for you of a religious war before the advent of Christianity and Islam?

Or is it the fact that the record that comes down to us is mythologised as if it were Gods fighting that makes you miss the actual event that has been mythologised?

We Yorubas have a mythology of a war between Obatala and Oduduwa, but most think its about gods too and don't realise its just bad journalism.

On record that you have come across, my Lord, is what you mean, and despite all your resistance, I am increasing your record so you can correct it since I am sure you know your record hardly includes all that has been recorded! So make sure you read past the title, my Lord.

Why were there no religious wars between pagans before Christianity took over Europe?

Generally speaking, when two pagan sides fought, it was acknowledged that the losing side had weaker gods than the winners, but the weaker gods were still considered 'real'. Sadly, the biggest obstacle to writing about pre-Christian religious wars is simply the lack of writings describing the war and the reasons for it: as such, we rarely have more than a "our gods say it's ok to kill these guys". If you want some examples of that, though, there a fairly large number:

Every war waged by the Pharaoh of Egypt was practically a religious war, since the Pharaoh was the leader of Egypt's main religion.
The Jewish wars in the old testament (like the Battle of Jericho) were almost all religious wars, at least according to the Bible.
The Persians apparently burned Greek temples in the various Persian invasions of Greece, so Alexander burned down the Persian palace in response.
The Vikings literally had a religion centered around war.
In the America's, wars were fought to capture slaves for the purpose of sacrifice, at least while the Aztecs were still around.

For forced conversion into a polytheistic religion, there's the example of Antiochus IV of the Seleucid kingdom, who tried to force the worship of Greek gods onto Jews, thereby sparking the Maccabaean revolt.

The Aztecs waged war on their neighbours to take sacrifical captives and slaves, and deliberately left their enemies as rump states so they could declare war on them again and again, practically farming them for sacrifices to their god.

Many Chinese civil wars had a significant religious element to them. One of the most famous was the Yellow Headscarf Rebellion (184–205 AD) which was led by adherents of a Taoist sect called the “Path of Supreme Peace”. They proclaimed the rebellion a struggle between the old “Azure sky” (Han dynasty, largely a Confucian entity, at least in words) and the new “Yellow sky”.

The Roman invasion of Gaul, which saw pagans on both sides of wars that lasted several years. After the Romans had succeeded in their cause, they set about suppressing the Gauls’ Druid priests, constructing their own temples over Celtic sites, and turning “holy springs” into thermal spas . Worship of native gods might be allowed, but that was largely only the case if such practices did not preclude the conquered from observing the practices of the Roman cult.

The Germanic Saxons, Angles, and Jutes invaded Celtic Britain, and they brought with them their own pagan beliefs, which they would eventually abandon for Christianity. Subsequently, other Germanic peoples would invade and bring pagan beliefs back to then-Christian Britain. In each of these cases, preexisting beliefs may have been tolerated to a certain extent, but the conquering peoples’ religious beliefs virtually always came to replace those of the conquered.

Christians were persecuted by Romans authorities because they were “other,” because they refused to honor the local gods and so dishonored both the gods and their worshippers, they refused to worship the Emperor and were thus disloyal to the state. Persecution of Christians happened in a variety of ways including social ostracization, confiscation of property, loss of public office, anti-Christian riots, and spasmodically in capital punishment. Perhaps the most well-known account is that of Nero’s cruel pogrom against Christians in Rome in the mid-60s AD. Tacitus noted how Nero blamed Christians for the burning of Rome. He picked on the Christians because by they were hated by the masses and they were tortured for public amusement! Now I could go on and mention the martyrdoms of Bishop Ignatius (ca. 110 AD), Bishop Polycarp (ca. 150 AD), Justin Martyr (ca. 165 AD), and the Perpetua and Felicity (ca. 203 AD) to name a few. But the post is long enough and you get the point. Pagans killed Christians because they hated them!

All of the above are just a few examples of pagans making war because of their religion. I copied these from historians. Most paganism was not peaceful .

MaxInDHouse:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm,
The Mighty Sparrow!
Well the only thing stopping you from seeing the light is the rebellious heart otherwise you could have seen that any religion that's able to change people under it's umbrella to peace loving and law abiding citizens is the one and only religion having the spirit of God! Isaiah 2:2-4
Just as you've said, this is not about God but Nigerians and the way we've developed our thinking over the years!

Religion itself - whichever -is a problem to development. It produces bigots not developers. The glories of Babylon, Persia, Egypt in science, Law, administration, Mathematics, astronomy, were lost to Islam. Today, Islam is making relevance by terrorism, fighting hard to regain their lost position.
When people like Karl Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Emmanuel Kant and others began to question religion, a ray of hope beamed in Europe that led to Industrial Revolution.
In the Church Age, people were giving to superstitions, that crippled their minds. Galileo Galilei was imprisoned for his discovery that the Earth revolves round the Sun. He died in house arrest. The same is true today among the self acclaimed God's Assistants on Earth.

How much has religion changed the minds of black race? Those in Europe and Americas are not faring better. Maximus'side, your observation is alright. Blacks cannot be the first race till thy Kingdom come.


Don't preach any false hope here.

LordReed:


I concur. We have vision less and spineless leaders who do not have the fortitude to do what is right for our collective future. The people in other lands don't have 2 heads or auxiliary brains, it's the same 1 head 1 brain we all have but those guys put their brain into gear while we like to contemplate the colour of the hair on our arses.

My man.

If we want to talk about life and the sweetness of the human race where LOVE, JOY and PEACE will reign, religion is the only key to unlocked that door but it must be the one and only true religion!
As long as you people keep thinking about your own race there will never be LOVE, JOY and PEACE anywhere.
So forget about racism, think about those whose policies are working out what is benefitial and let's all adopt such policies.
For your information, Christianity started well in the first century until Satan's agents took over after the death of the Apostles {Matthew 13:25} ever since then Christianity went into a spiritual bondage until America declared FREEDOM OF SPEECH, EXPRESSION and WORSHIP that's when true Christianity began flourishing again. All those atrocities committed during the dark ages were carried out by Satan's agents (Politicians) NOT CHRISTIANS!
Jesus never preached racism or politics where people will force people to adhere to certain rules, otherwise his Jewish religious contemporaries wouldn't have had any issue with him, but he preached a peaceful religion that will unite all humans as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers!

The agenda of Christ's Kingdom government that will solve all our problems:
@ everyone will be paid the same wage no one should be rated above another.
@ all people will live as one, racism must be cleared off.
@ each person must be given equal privileges to live his life.
@ one man~one wife just as God set the standard in the garden of Eden.
@ our government will be one global government that will see to the welfare of all.
@ no citizen must be subjected to stress so that each home is filled with happy people.

If Mankind is ready for this today, God will just arrest Satan and his demons and bless us with healings of all sort . But as long as humans are still trying to use their own ideas to achieve the impossible, God's people will be gathering humble and obedient ones, teaching them all these things in preparation for God's Kingdom that's coming to wipe out Satan's system with all it's supporters! Daniel 2:44

MightySparrow:

Blacks cannot be the first race till thy Kingdom come.
Don't preach any false hope here.

budaatum:


So, my Lord, the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanomachy#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DIn_Greek_mythology%2C_the_Titanomachy%2Cgenerations%2C_who_would_come_to?wprov=sfla1]Titans fighting against the Olympians[/url] is not record enough for you of a religious war before the advent of Christianity and Islam?

Or is it the fact that the record that comes down to us is mythologised as if it were Gods fighting that makes you miss the actual event that has been mythologised?

We Yorubas have a mythology of a war between Obatala and Oduduwa, but most think its about gods too and don't realise its just bad journalism.

On record that you have come across, my Lord, is what you mean, and despite all your resistance, I am increasing your record so you can correct it since I am sure you know your record hardly includes all that has been recorded! So make sure you read past the title, my Lord.

Now we cooking with gas! This is what I expected not quibbles about creating subsets.

Let's dig into the meat!

Sure we can speculate on what mythological tales really mean, maybe Zeus was angry because his father kicked his dog or they were really fighting over a piece of meat during a famine. Still doesn't add up to a religious war.

Generally speaking, when two pagan sides fought, it was acknowledged that the losing side had weaker gods than the winners, but the weaker gods were still considered 'real'. Sadly, the biggest obstacle to writing about pre-Christian religious wars is simply the lack of writings describing the war and the reasons for it: as such, we rarely have more than a "our gods say it's ok to kill these guys". If you want some examples of that, though, there a fairly large number:

Every war waged by the Pharaoh of Egypt was practically a religious war, since the Pharaoh was the leader of Egypt's main religion.
The Jewish wars in the old testament (like the Battle of Jericho) were almost all religious wars, at least according to the Bible.
The Persians apparently burned Greek temples in the various Persian invasions of Greece, so Alexander burned down the Persian palace in response.
The Vikings literally had a religion centered around war.
In the America's, wars were fought to capture slaves for the purpose of sacrifice, at least while the Aztecs were still around.

So if Pharoah shits its a religious shit?

Post hoc rationalisation does not count. Saying god said we could kill them after the fact is not a ground to call it a religious war.

Enlighten me on how the Vikings religion centred around war.

Burning buildings was standard during wars so how is burning Greek temples indicative of a religious war?

The Aztecs sacrificed their own populations sometimes not only captives so the main purpose of their wars could arguably not have been about obtaining sacrifice material.

For forced conversion into a polytheistic religion, there's the example of Antiochus IV of the Seleucid kingdom, who tried to force the worship of Greek gods onto Jews, thereby sparking the Maccabaean revolt.

The Maccabean revolt was not primarily about religion but civic oppression. When civil liberties are suspended including your religious one does fighting to restore your civic liberties mean you are fighting a religious war? And no they were not forcibly converted, that is blatantly wrong.

The Aztecs waged war on their neighbours to take sacrifical captives and slaves, and deliberately left their enemies as rump states so they could declare war on them again and again, practically farming them for sacrifices to their god.

Where is this person getting this idea from I wonder.

Many Chinese civil wars had a significant religious element to them. One of the most famous was the Yellow Headscarf Rebellion (184–205 AD) which was led by adherents of a Taoist sect called the “Path of Supreme Peace”. They proclaimed the rebellion a struggle between the old “Azure sky” (Han dynasty, largely a Confucian entity, at least in words) and the new “Yellow sky”.

I am beginning to suspect this person is just massaging the facts to fit a narrative. The Yellow Turban Rebellion was caused by a combination of famine, high taxation and exploitation not religion.

The Roman invasion of Gaul, which saw pagans on both sides of wars that lasted several years. After the Romans had succeeded in their cause, they set about suppressing the Gauls’ Druid priests, constructing their own temples over Celtic sites, and turning “holy springs” into thermal spas . Worship of native gods might be allowed, but that was largely only the case if such practices did not preclude the conquered from observing the practices of the Roman cult.

Again this was cultural suppression after conquest, it does not mean the conquest was done in the name of religion.

The Germanic Saxons, Angles, and Jutes invaded Celtic Britain, and they brought with them their own pagan beliefs, which they would eventually abandon for Christianity. Subsequently, other Germanic peoples would invade and bring pagan beliefs back to then-Christian Britain. In each of these cases, preexisting beliefs may have been tolerated to a certain extent, but the conquering peoples’ religious beliefs virtually always came to replace those of the conquered.

Christians were persecuted by Romans authorities because they were “other,” because they refused to honor the local gods and so dishonored both the gods and their worshippers, they refused to worship the Emperor and were thus disloyal to the state. Persecution of Christians happened in a variety of ways including social ostracization, confiscation of property, loss of public office, anti-Christian riots, and spasmodically in capital punishment. Perhaps the most well-known account is that of Nero’s cruel pogrom against Christians in Rome in the mid-60s AD. Tacitus noted how Nero blamed Christians for the burning of Rome. He picked on the Christians because by they were hated by the masses and they were tortured for public amusement! Now I could go on and mention the martyrdoms of Bishop Ignatius (ca. 110 AD), Bishop Polycarp (ca. 150 AD), Justin Martyr (ca. 165 AD), and the Perpetua and Felicity (ca. 203 AD) to name a few. But the post is long enough and you get the point. Pagans killed Christians because they hated them!

This is after Christianity is established so I fail to see how it adds to the point.

LordReed:

The Maccabean revolt was not primarily about religion but civic oppression. When civil liberties are suspended including your religious one does fighting to restore your civic liberties mean you are fighting a religious war? And no they were not forcibly converted, that is blatantly wrong.

You see the above, my Lord? It can be said about any war you'd like to classify as religious. The fact is, people don't really care about their Gods or their religions as much as you are claiming, but just hide their intentions and deeds behind their Gods or they claim their own intentions and deeds belong to their Gods that they fight for, or would you like to argue that religious people are not hypocrites?

The Crusades, for instance, were about wealth and prestige, and the wars Mohammed fought were mostly about trade you'd find. Even the Egypt-Palestine squabbles are not religious, nor is that brewing between America and Iran, or the past one against Iraq. But I guess I should let you name some wars you think were religious so we can analyse and decide.

budaatum:


You see the above, my Lord? It can be said about any war you'd like to classify as religious. The fact is, people don't really care about their Gods or their religions as much as you are claiming, but just hide their intentions and deeds behind their Gods or they claim their own intentions and deeds belong to their Gods that they fight for, or would you like to argue that religious people are not hypocrites?

The Crusades, for instance, were about wealth and prestige, and the wars Mohammed fought were mostly about trade you'd find. Even the Egypt-Palestine squabbles are not religious, nor is that brewing between America and Iran, or the past one against Iraq. But I guess I should let you name some wars you think were religious so we can analyse and decide.

This is what I wrote my dear buda note the bolded:

I have looked through a compilation of the history of war and it is interesting to note that before the advent of Christianity and Islam there was no record of a war of religion or one where religion was the main cause.

The crusades where primarily about Religion there was no interest in Jerusalem except as a religious symbol. That was the main reason even if other reasons got tacked on later.

Please point me the source for the consideration that Mohammed was fighting more about trade than religion.

MaxInDHouse:
If we want to talk about life and the sweetness of the human race where LOVE, JOY and PEACE will reign, religion is the only key to unlocked that door but it must be the one and only true religion!
As long as you people keep thinking about your own race there will never be LOVE, JOY and PEACE anywhere.
So forget about racism, think about those whose policies are working out what is benefitial and let's all adopt such policies.
For your information, Christianity started well in the first century until Satan's agents took over after the death of the Apostles {Matthew 13:25} ever since then Christianity went into a spiritual bondage until America declared FREEDOM OF SPEECH, EXPRESSION and WORSHIP that's when true Christianity began flourishing again. All those atrocities committed during the dark ages were carried out by Satan's agents (Politicians) NOT CHRISTIANS!
Jesus never preached racism or politics where people will force people to adhere to certain rules, otherwise his Jewish religious contemporaries wouldn't have had any issue with him, but he preached a peaceful religion that will unite all humans as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers!

The agenda of Christ's Kingdom government that will solve all our problems:
@ everyone will be paid the same wage no one should be rated above another.
@ all people will live as one, racism must be cleared off.
@ each person must be given equal privileges to live his life.
@ one man~one wife just as God set the standard in the garden of Eden.
@ our government will be one global government that will see to the welfare of all.
@ no citizen must be subjected to stress so that each home is filled with happy people.

If Mankind is ready for this today, God will just arrest Satan and his demons and bless us with healings of all sort . But as long as humans are still trying to use their own ideas to achieve the impossible, God's people will be gathering humble and obedient ones, teaching them all these things in preparation for God's Kingdom that's coming to wipe out Satan's system with all it's supporters! Daniel 2:44

So a lizard in this world will become alligator in kingdom of God. Religious people massage.

I don't get you on this, but wait o!
Are you still a believer or you've lost the hope in Christ?
Please i'm asking because you're no more sounding like a person having any kind of faith!

MightySparrow:

So a lizard in this world will become alligator in kingdom of God. Religious people massage.

LordReed:

This is what I wrote my dear buda note the bolded:

I have looked through a compilation of the history of war and it is interesting to note that before the advent of Christianity and Islam there was no record of a war of religion or one where religion was the main cause.

And as I said, no wars of religion per se where religions is the main cause now or in the past.

You see your, "So if Pharoah shits its a religious shit?" Well, its so on point, is the point, along with your dissection of the other wars that were presented as religious wars, and I am claiming your observation for those work with the crusades and with Muhammed too.

You after all would not claim boko haram is fighting a religious war, I hope, just as you did not accept other examples of 'religious wars' that I have presented to you, though some were even recorded as being between gods.

LordReed:

The crusades where primarily about Religion there was no interest in Jerusalem except as a religious symbol. That was the main reason even if other reasons got tacked on later.

And I am suggesting to you that what you say was "tacked on later" was always their devious primary intention from the very beginning, and religion was not the main cause even if the records say it was.

I suggest to you that Jerusalem was not the intention of the crusades, but the security of the trade route through which tribute flowed to the Church that had been disrupted by Muslim conquests along the route. If the Church's pocket was not hurt they'd have not given a crusading fuq about poxy Jerusalem!

LordReed:
Please point me the source for the consideration that Mohammed was fighting more about trade than religion.

Lol, my Lord. The "tacked on" is done far too well for what you ask for, but if you read an autobiography of Mohammed I'm sure it would leap out at you. Maxime Rodinson's, a maverick Marxist, is one you'd expect to be pro my view, so read others too please.

There's even verses in the Quran he wrote that Islam was not by compulsion, and you should know some he conquered he collected tribute from without insisting they convert, so not just trade but for monetary gain too, which was also the reason for the crusades, the Church's attempt to fill its coffers, though that's not what you'd expect to read in the records.

Its more about interpretation, my Lord. Like some read Dr Fauci's emails and say they damn him, some see in those same emails how good a person and a good job he did, so you and I will be on opposite sides of this fence I guess, though your faith in the Church's intention regarding the crusades amuses me since you should know that most popes of the time were more greedy than pious.

LordReed:


This is what I wrote my dear buda note the bolded:



The crusades where primarily about Religion there was no interest in Jerusalem except as a religious symbol. That was the main reason even if other reasons got tacked on later.

Please point me the source for the consideration that Mohammed was fighting more about trade than religion.

People have killed in the name of God(s) whether or not anyone agrees.

Buda speaks like Buda knows what exists in everyone's mind so when you say you are happy with Buhari Buda might say it's a lie because Buda feels your mind is open to Buda.





Buda is a waste of time here.

MaxInDHouse:
I don't get you on this, but wait o!
Are you still a believer or you've lost the hope in Christ?
Please i'm asking because you're no more sounding like a person having any kind of faith!

Very much in faith! I don't subscribe to mediocrity. Twenty years ago or thereabouts, Dubai was worse than Nigeria in infrastructure. Today, it is a parable of some sort. If according to your theology, this world is to be future abode of human beings, and you are to remain in Africa. It literally means mediocrity continues.

Africans take solace in the afterlife, deceiving themselves and being deceived. What you teach people, is not possible here, in Africa, is a common thing in Europe, America, Germany, UAE. So, blacks are doomed here for bliss overthere What about those who gain paradise from places where things work?
I remain in faith but don't subscribe to African mediocrity.

This world first then, the next.

OK, i've forgotten that your faith differs from mine so our line of thought will surely differ!

By the geographical location of where i'm worshiping my God presently you will refer to me as an African but by Faith I AM NO PART OF THIS WORLD! John 17:14

So wherever i find myself is home as long as my JW brothers and sisters will be there to worship my God with me! Luke 21:20-21

As for the promises of our God nothing as in NOTHING can stop us from exercising FAITH in God's Kingdom where the whole earth will become a Paradise! Psalms 37:9-11 compare to Romans 8:38-39

I wish you well my friend!

MightySparrow:

Very much in faith! I don't subscribe to mediocrity. Twenty years ago or thereabouts, Dubai was worse than Nigeria in infrastructure. Today, it is a parable of some sort. If according to your theology, this world is to be future abode of human beings, and you are to remain in Africa. It literally means mediocrity continues.
Africans take solace in the afterlife, deceiving themselves and being deceived. What you teach people, is not possible here, in Africa, is a common thing in Europe, America, Germany, UAE. So, blacks are doomed here for bliss overthere What about those who gain paradise from places where things work?
I remain in faith but don't subscribe to African mediocrity. This world first then, the next.

What a useful belief.. his gods are foreign. His mind is freely reined in.

MaxInDHouse:
OK, i've forgotten that your faith differs from mine so our line of thought will surely differ!

By the geographical location of where i'm worshiping my God presently you will refer to me as an African but by Faith I AM NO PART OF THIS WORLD! John 17:14

So wherever i find myself is home as long as my JW brothers and sisters will be there to worship my God with me! Luke 21:20-21

As for the promises of our God nothing as in NOTHING can stop us from exercising FAITH in God's Kingdom where the whole earth will become a Paradise! Psalms 37:9-11 compare to Romans 8:38-39

I wish you well my friend!

You don port to paradise. Ok o. I am still here on earthly earth.

budaatum:

And as I said, no wars of religion per se where religions is the main cause now or in the past.

You see your, "So if Pharoah shits its a religious shit?" Well, its so on point, is the point, along with your dissection of the other wars that were presented as religious wars, and I am claiming your observation for those work with the crusades and with Muhammed too.

You after all would not claim boko haram is fighting a religious war, I hope, just as you did not accept other examples of 'religious wars' that I have presented to you, though some were even recorded as being between gods.


And I am suggesting to you that what you say was "tacked on later" was always their devious primary intention from the very beginning, and religion was not the main cause even if the records say it was.

I suggest to you that Jerusalem was not the intention of the crusades, but the security of the trade route through which tribute flowed to the Church that had been disrupted by Muslim conquests along the route. If the Church's pocket was not hurt they'd have not given a crusading fuq about poxy Jerusalem!


Lol, my Lord. The "tacked on" is done far too well for what you ask for, but if you read an autobiography of Mohammed I'm sure it would leap out at you. Maxime Rodinson's, a maverick Marxist, is one you'd expect to be pro my view, so read others too please.

There's even verses in the Quran he wrote that Islam was not by compulsion, and you should know some he conquered he collected tribute from without insisting they convert, so not just trade but for monetary gain too, which was also the reason for the crusades, the Church's attempt to fill its coffers, though that's not what you'd expect to read in the records.

Its more about interpretation, my Lord. Like some read Dr Fauci's emails and say they damn him, some see in those same emails how good a person and a good job he did, so you and I will be on opposite sides of this fence I guess, though your faith in the Church's intention regarding the crusades amuses me since you should know that most popes of the time were more greedy than pious.

Lemme illustrate the way i see this subject with food. You would agree with me that the main reason you eat food is to survive however there are other aspects of eating food that provide motivation to go through with the rigour of purchase and preparation. Things like taste, flavour, texture even visual beauty add to the experience and make you want to do it again and again. Do these additional impetus mean your goal of survival has been superceded? No they don't. I will acknowledge that some foods you eat purely for the taste and not survival but still your goal of survival remains intact. Religious wars had other objectives but those objectives did not subtract the central goal which was religious domination or retaliation.

MightySparrow:

You don port to paradise. Ok o. I am still here on earthly earth.

Wishing you the best my friend, may you have PEACE!

MightySparrow:


Very much in faith! I don't subscribe to mediocrity. Twenty years ago or thereabouts, Dubai was worse than Nigeria in infrastructure. Today, it is a parable of some sort. If according to your theology, this world is to be future abode of human beings, and you are to remain in Africa. It literally means mediocrity continues.

Africans take solace in the afterlife, deceiving themselves and being deceived. What you teach people, is not possible here, in Africa, is a common thing in Europe, America, Germany, UAE. So, blacks are doomed here for bliss overthere What about those who gain paradise from places where things work?
I remain in faith but don't subscribe to African mediocrity.

This world first then, the next.

Stop generalizing baselessly

All Africans are not the same

LordReed:


Lemme illustrate the way i see this subject with food. You would agree with me that the main reason you eat food is to survive however there are other aspects of eating food that provide motivation to go through with the rigour of purchase and preparation. Things like taste, flavour, texture even visual beauty add to the experience and make you want to do it again and again. Do these additional impetus mean your goal of survival has been superceded? No they don't. I will acknowledge that some foods you eat purely for the taste and not survival but still your goal of survival remains intact. Religious wars had other objectives but those objectives did not subtract the central goal which was religious domination or retaliation.

See the reason I've been given for eating a fruit, and my response.

One may be full already and just be eating because one is a greedy pig!

budaatum:


Lol, my Lord. The "tacked on" is done far too well for what you ask for, but if you read an autobiography of Mohammed I'm sure it would leap out at you. Maxime Rodinson's, a maverick Marxist, is one you'd expect to be pro my view, so read others too please.

From the book:

WHAT plans Muhammad and Abu Bakr were making on the road that led them to the city we do not know. It is unlikely that they had any clear vision of the future or that they reckoned all the consequences of their emigration. They were certainly glad to be able to settle down at last in an environment friendly to their beliefs and to their action. Their ambitions probably went no further than making Medina a centre from which the belief in Allah as the One God should spread out to cover a large area of Arabia. They may also have dreamed pending the just punishment which Allah would surely inflict on the unbelieving city - of exacting a more limited and human vengeance on their account.

LordReed:


From the book:

WHAT plans Muhammad and Abu Bakr were making on the road that led them to the city we do not know. It is unlikely that they had any clear vision of the future or that they reckoned all the consequences of their emigration. They were certainly glad to be able to settle down at last in an environment friendly to their beliefs and to their action. Their ambitions probably went no further than making Medina a centre from which the belief in Allah as the One God should spread out to cover a large area of Arabia. They may also have dreamed pending the just punishment which Allah would surely inflict on the unbelieving city - of exacting a more limited and human vengeance on their account.

Have you got the book?

There's a lot more in the book than that my Lord, and I do not just expect you to take the words ("Lord Lord" alone but their implications (fruits) too. (That, by the way is what we learn from reading the Bible, "in spirit" so to speak, and not just the surface meaning of the words).

Note from what you quoted he says "we do not know", and he intelligently says "Their ambitions probably went no further", which is speculation that gives sufficient space for you to think of other probabilities going much further, especially since he even suggests they "may also have dreamed". If they dreamed once, it would not be wrong to think they might dreamed other dreams too, of wealth for instance, or glory.

It is those sort of comments that make that book one of my favourites on the subject, that and the fact that Maxine was borderline atheistic (though he is described as being agnostic). He does not write for you to believe but for you to use your mind in order to gain an understanding, and it is why I so admire Muhammed, dare I say.

budaatum:


Have you got the book?

There's a lot more in the book than that my Lord, and I do not just expect you to take the words ("Lord Lord" alone but their implications (fruits) too. (That, by the way is what we learn from reading the Bible, "in spirit" so to speak, and not just the surface meaning of the words).

Note from what you quoted he says "we do not know", and he intelligently says "Their ambitions probably went no further", which is speculation that gives sufficient space for you to think of other probabilities going much further, especially since he even suggests they "may also have dreamed". If they dreamed once, it would not be wrong to think they might dreamed other dreams too, of wealth for instance, or glory.

It is those sort of comments that make that book one of my favourites on the subject, that and the fact that Maxine was borderline atheistic (though he is described as being agnostic). He does not write for you to believe but for you to use your mind in order to gain an understanding, and it is why I so admire Muhammed, dare I say.

I don't get the impression this author thinks trade was a big reason for Muhammend's actions is what I am highlighting. Instead it does seem establishment of the religion was the most potent reason for his actions.

LordReed:


I don't get the impression this author thinks trade was a big reason for Muhammend's actions is what I am highlighting. Instead it does seem establishment of the religion was the most potent reason for his actions.

You "don't get the impression".

I fully respect that my Lord because it is not quite my style to impose an impression on a person since impressions are influenced by ones perception, mine being that of greedy bastards playing holier than thou, just as it was in the beginning and forever will likely be.

Know that I will make fun of you my Lord, if and when your impression changes.

budaatum:


You "don't get the impression".

I fully respect that my Lord because it is not quite my style to impose an impression on a person since impressions are influenced by ones perception, mine being that of greedy bastards playing holier than thou, just as it was in the beginning and forever will likely be.

Know that I will make fun of you my Lord, if and when your impression changes.

Buda my dear buda. LoL

LordReed:


Buda my dear buda. LoL

What, my Lord? Lol!

Seriously, it's the same thing going on in this thread.

Observe for a while before commenting please my Lord, unless its to answer the initial question posed.

HellVictorinho:


Stop generalizing baselessly

All Africans are not the same

ALL Afrikans or all blacks? Are all people in africa blacks?

DDDEnterprises:
Why is Nigeria so bad?

because the problems of Nigeria were brought upon Nigerians by themselves.

They are just religious on the outside but many of us are corrupt in many aspects and ramifications and the consequences of our inactions is what we are experiencing.

so how's God to blame for that?

You're exactly right on that.

Is Nigeria really that bad? It may be dysfunctional in many ways but compared to Somalia,Afghanistan ,DRC and Syria/Palestine and Yemen then Nigeria can be termed a normal country.

iSpirit1:


Are you listening to yourself? If he knew the choices that Lucifer was going to make, where then is FREEWILL? The attribute you're giving to God is one of the most evil attribute that humans have given to God for all times.

See here, God doesn't know the choices we are going to make. He only knows the result of whatever choices we make. That's what the Omniscient attribute of God entail.

We can see a clear picture of this when God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to Him. When Abraham yielded, God said, "Now I know that you truly love me". This shows that God did not know beforehand that Abraham would obey Him.



Your problem here is that you're attributing to God what he didn't claim to have. Know God first before you think you can say anything about His personality and attributes.

There is no freewill. Praising God eternally in heaven, does that sound like freewill?

God doesn't know the choices we make? So you're saying God isn't all-knowing?

I didn't attribute anything to God, Christians did.

There we go again

Doja2000:
How can Nigeria be good if our politicians are bad and wicked?
God is good and God is helping this country but our politicians are the ones ruining everything.
But I believe that one day God will put them to shame.

Not just the politicians.......it's as simple as two opposite side, like the wickedness and greed in the black man has kept them in slavery and poor...........

desiredhome:

Not just the politicians.......it's as simple as two opposite side, like the wickedness and greed in the black man has kept them in slavery and poor...........

hmm... that's true

That's why I specialize in OLODUMARE, ODUDUWA IFA AND THEIR LAND OF LOVE (ILE-IFE)..


YORUBA IS UNIQUELY STANDARD.