hupernikao:

I will stay on the topic of your misinterpretation of Jesus as angel first. Since you are yet to still understand what the name or the person Jesus means. Nor understand the humanity of Christ. Going into his resurrection will only bring more confusion to your reading.
All texts you quoted up there has nothing to do with what the authors implied. They are your imaginations. But it's allowed, it's a stage in Bible learning. To imagine, to lift scriptures and see self revelation in the name of spirit inspired revelation.
I am sure soon you will be able to fully read the scriptures and accept it the way the authors were inspired and interpret it as such.
Pending that time, get this right in your mind and it will help your explanation of who the man Jesus is.
1. Jesus is a man born of a woman, the savior of the world.
2. Jesus wasn't the name of God, it's a name given by God to a MAN at birth, who will at last bear the authority of God.
3. When you Read OT text, stop referencing Jesus as preexisting in any form. No text for that. I know you have text that can confuse your reading. But check it well, they are mostly prophecy of the future about a MAN to be born, Jesus. Any interpretation outside this is self imagination.
4. Stop quoting verses without reading its full chapter to understand what the verse is truly saying. Read the chapter first to give meaning to a verse, then use your knowledge of other places in the scripture to interpret the verse. Don't give an independent meaning to a verse.
A verse must retain its meaning when read with its surrounding text. That is, the meaning of a verse, no matter anywhere you want to apply it, must be derived from the context of the chapter you are lifting it from.
Read the above again.
This is how your errors are seen in all verses you are quoting.
If we insert those verses back to their surrounding context and chapter and read it together in their chapter for a meaning, we won't arrive at the meaning you have been giving them when read independent from their surrounding text.
Hence not biblical.
This simple rule above is sacrosanct in Bible interpretation and save us from imagined inspiration driven by desire of self revelation.

Oga you said that whenever Jesus is referred to as the “Son of God”, it means the Bible is talking only about his life on earth as a human. Then I showed you Revelation 2:18 and all of a sudden you went numb because you saw how your earlier interpretation was faulty. What you don’t know is that Revelation 2:18 even checks out with Job 2:1 that Jesus was amongst the sons of God, but if you do not agree, then it means Jesus never had a prehuman existence which would then render Micah 5:2, John 8:23 and John 17:5 invalid. Then I also mentioned Acts 3:13 where Jesus is referred to as a Servant after his resurrection to heaven and up til now you’ve not been able to resolve it. So deal with all of that first before coming to tell me how and why I shouldn’t quote which scriptures in the Bible.

Each of them wants to preach and teach but where are their fellow believers?

When Jesus started he proved all the religious groups in Israel wrong then he PRESENT his own group as those belonging to the same spiritual family with him. Matthew 12:46-49

hupernikao will continue to argue from now till tomorrow but ask him to PRESENT his church where members share the same line of thought with him. NO WAY!

Yet he's been arguing with his so called Christian brethren from thread to thread on Nairaland, one could wonder "if this is how pure worship should be then how are they worshiping in spirit and truth?"

DappaD:


Oga you said that whenever Jesus is referred to as the “Son of God”, it means the Bible is talking only about his life on earth as a human. Then I showed you Revelation 2:18 and all of a sudden you went numb because you saw how your earlier interpretation was faulty. Then I also mentioned Acts 3:13 where Jesus is referred to as a Servant after his resurrection to heaven and up til now you’ve not been able to resolve it. So deal with all of that first before coming to tell me how and why I shouldn’t quote which scriptures in the Bible.

MaxInDHouse:
Each of them wants to preach and teach but where are their fellow believers?

When Jesus started he proved all the religious groups in Israel wrong then he PRESENT his own group as those belonging to the same spiritual family with him. Matthew 12:46-49

hupernikao will continue to argue from now till tomorrow but ask him to PRESENT his church where members share the same line of thought with him. NO WAY!

Yet he's been arguing with his so called Christian brethren from thread to thread on Nairaland, one could wonder "if this is how pure worship should be then how are they worshiping in spirit and truth?"

The 'oly demonic ghost of Trinity GIBBERISH confusing 3 pagan idols devotees.

hupernikao:


I will stay on the topic of your misinterpretation of Jesus as angel first. Since you are yet to still understand what the name or the person Jesus means. Nor understand the humanity of Christ. Going into his resurrection will only bring more confusion to your reading.

All texts you quoted up there has nothing to do with what the authors implied. They are your imaginations. But it's allowed, it's a stage in Bible learning. To imagine, to lift scriptures and see self revelation in the name of spirit inspired revelation.

I am sure soon you will be able to fully read the scriptures and accept it the way the authors were inspired and interpret it as such.

Pending that time, get this right in your mind and it will help your explanation of who the man Jesus is.

1. Jesus is a man born of a woman, the savior of the world.

2. Jesus wasn't the name of God, it's a name given by God to a MAN at birth, who will at last bear the authority of God.

3. When you Read OT text, stop referencing Jesus as preexisting in any form. No text for that. I know you have text that can confuse your reading. But check it well, they are mostly prophecy of the future about a MAN to be born, Jesus. Any interpretation outside this is self imagination.

4. Stop quoting verses without reading its full chapter to understand what the verse is truly saying. Read the chapter first to give meaning to a verse, then use your knowledge of other places in the scripture to interpret the verse. Don't give an independent meaning to a verse.

A verse must retain its meaning when read with its surrounding text. That is, the meaning of a verse, no matter anywhere you want to apply it, must be derived from the context of the chapter you are lifting it from.

Read the above again.



This is how your errors are seen in all verses you are quoting.
If we insert those verses back to their surrounding context and chapter and read it together in their chapter for a meaning, we won't arrive at the meaning you have been giving them when read independent from their surrounding text.
Hence not biblical.

This simple rule above is sacrosanct in Bible interpretation and save us from imagined inspiration driven by desire of self revelation.

Your Points 1&2,
You are here telling this public forum that your Jesus is NOT your God in the flesh.
According to your claim,your Jesus is only a man,not your God in the flesh.
Issorait.
.

Your Point 3.
You are telling this public forum that your fellow Trinitarians claim of godhead in Genesis 1:26 is a fallacy,not based on fact.
Very good coming from you, a staunch Trinity devotee.

Malachi 3:1 , Joshua 5:14, Proverbs 8:22, Daniel 10:13 & 12:1, the Geneva Bible , your fellow Trinitarians & Bible Translators since 1599, says your claim is DUBIOUS.

Point 4.
Yes.

Scriptures explain & interpret scriptures-
Genesis 3:15 = Revelation 12:7-9,12.
& 1 John 3:8, who is the serpent?
Who is "the seed" that defeated "the serpent"?

The so-called "errors" is your self imagination.

Janosky:

Your Points 1&2,
You are here telling this public forum that your Jesus is NOT your God in the flesh.
According to your claim,your Jesus is only a man,not your God in the flesh.
Issorait.
.

Your Point 3.
You are telling this public forum that your fellow Trinitarians claim of godhead in Genesis 1:26 is a fallacy,not based on fact.
Very good coming from you, a staunch Trinity devotee.

Malachi 3:1 , Joshua 5:14, Proverbs 8:22, Daniel 10:13 & 12:1, the Geneva Bible , your fellow Trinitarians & Bible Translators since 1599, says your claim is DUBIOUS.

Point 4.
Yes.

Scriptures explain & interpret scriptures-
Genesis 3:15 = Revelation 12:7-9,12.
& 1 John 3:8, who is the serpent?
Who is "the seed" that defeated "the serpent"?

The so-called "errors" is your self imagination.

I am sure you aren't reading my texts.

You can only wake up a sleeping man, you can't wake up a man pretending to sleep. This is your case.

Trying to wake you up to this knowledge won't be productive until you are ready.

Like I have told you before, you aren't ready to read and comprehend this. When you are ready for discussion, I will know, then teach you to understand the concept under discussion.

MaxInDHouse:
Each of them wants to preach and teach but where are their fellow believers?

When Jesus started he proved all the religious groups in Israel wrong then he PRESENT his own group as those belonging to the same spiritual family with him. Matthew 12:46-49

hupernikao will continue to argue from now till tomorrow but ask him to PRESENT his church where members share the same line of thought with him. NO WAY!

Yet he's been arguing with his so called Christian brethren from thread to thread on Nairaland, one could wonder "if this is how pure worship should be then how are they worshiping in spirit and truth?"

Strawman card is what you played above.

I understand it. It always leads to that.

We are having discussion, whether it's an argument or not is less of concern. Scriptures must be argued, contended for. So why the fear.

Yet, what I have done hear is to correct your believe system and that of your folks error of interpretation.


And by the way, I am sure this is your thread which you created and called all to Bible Study. What you wrote up there doesn't show you want a Bible study.

Were you expecting not to be questioned on your doctrine?

Lest face Bible Sir.

DappaD:


Oga you said that whenever Jesus is referred to as the “Son of God”, it means the Bible is talking only about his life on earth as a human. Then I showed you Revelation 2:18 and all of a sudden you went numb because you saw how your earlier interpretation was faulty. What you don’t know is that Revelation 2:18 even checks out with Job 2:1 that Jesus was amongst the sons of God, but if you do not agree, then it means Jesus never had a prehuman existence which would then render Micah 5:2, John 8:23 and John 17:5 invalid. Then I also mentioned Acts 3:13 where Jesus is referred to as a Servant after his resurrection to heaven and up til now you’ve not been able to resolve it. So deal with all of that first before coming to tell me how and why I shouldn’t quote which scriptures in the Bible.

You aren't reading what I wrote well Sir.

Jesus, God became a man and will remain a man for your sake. God's authority was not for God, it's for man. David showed you that Ps 8, Genesis told you that Gen 1.

God's dominion is for man. Christ (man) is the model son (man) that entered into that dominion through his obedience (God don't obey God, the man Jesus did). This is so that men can know that, man can be at peace with God and dwell in same place with God.

Jesus, is called your brother because he is the man Jesus. God is not your brother, he is your God. Jesus, the son (man) is our brother. That is God who became man for you.

He died as man, rose as man, sit today in heavenly as man. This is why you can sit in him. God don't sit, man sit in the place of authority. He became God's servant for you. You have to understand Bible language used for Jesus even till now. It's man's authority.

So, take your Bible and read all prophecies of old in this light so that you won't start seeing Jesus man in heaven before his birth in earth.

This is foundation of Bible theology.

MaxInDHouse:
The question is where is the name 'Jesus' mentioned in that book?

Didn't Matthew told you that the fulfillment of that Isaiah prophecy is Jesus.

Isaiah didn't see Jesus, he saw a son, a savior. That is how prophecy works.

Matthew was the one who showed us that what Isaiah said is about the man Jesus.

If Matthew say, so, who am I to argue.

Matthew explained Isaiah for you. That's how scriptures explain scriptures but don't forget by its context not by listing verses. The authors context delivered us this interpretation.

So far Jesus is not mentioned in that place then you have no point asking for where Jesus is mentioned in other scriptures when we can all see the similarities in what is being said!

hupernikao:

Didn't Matthew told you that the fulfillment of that Isaiah prophecy is Jesus.
Isaiah didn't see Jesus, he saw a son, a savior. That is how prophecy works.
Matthew was the one who showed us that what Isaiah said is about the man Jesus.
If Matthew say, so, who am I to argue.
Matthew explained Isaiah for you. That's how scriptures explain scriptures but don't forget by its context not by listing verses. The authors context delivered us this interpretation.

hupernikao:


I am sure you aren't reading my texts.

You can only wake up a sleeping man, you can't wake up a man pretending to sleep. This is your case.

Trying to wake you up to this knowledge won't be productive until you are ready.

Like I have told you before, you aren't ready to read and comprehend this. When you are ready for discussion, I will know, then teach you to understand the concept under discussion.

Bros, you wrote GIBBERISH.


5 centuries ago, Geneva Bible Translators, your Trinity mentors, said Jesus Christ is archangel Michael and an angel of Jehovah @ Daniel 10:13. 12:1 & Joshua 5:14
This fact has been confirmed by KNOWMORE56, your fellow Trinitarian.


Bros, the same 'oly ghost is teaching you & your fellow Trinitarians, meet them for further expositions or continue typing GIBBERISH.

hupernikao:

You aren't reading what I wrote well Sir.
Jesus, God became a man and will remain a man for your sake. God's authority was not for God, it's for man. David showed you that Ps 8, Genesis told you that Gen 1.
God's dominion is for man. Christ (man) is the model son (man) that entered into that dominion through his obedience (God don't obey God, the man Jesus did). This is so that men can know that, man can be at peace with God and dwell in same place with God.
Jesus, is called your brother because he is the man Jesus. God is not your brother, he is your God. Jesus, the son (man) is our brother. That is God who became man for you.
He died as man, rose as man, sit today in heavenly as man. This is why you can sit in him. God don't sit, man sit in the place of authority. He became God's servant for you. You have to understand Bible language used for Jesus even till now. It's man's authority.
So, take your Bible and read all prophecies of old in this light so that you won't start seeing Jesus man in heaven before his birth in earth.
This is foundation of Bible theology.

I have time for more pressing issues than reading your writeup. This is what I could get from all of your posts in summary:

hupernikao:
And more importantly, show me a text that called Jesus the son of God and not refering to his earthly birth.

Then my response was and has always been:

DappaD:

Okay. This is what Revelation 2:18 has to say about your stand because the statement was made more than 60 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ:

“And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the
Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;” KJV

What you don’t know is that one thing leads to another because cause and effect is a real thing.
Please is Jesus still a Son of God or not after his resurrection to heaven? Why did he not cease being a Son of God since you said the title only refers to him as a human in earth? Address these issues and stop deflecting I actually don’t have time to read jargon.

hupernikao will say "that place never mentioned "Jesus"" therefore Pastor KNOWMORE is wrong!

Janosky:

Bros, you wrote GIBBERISH.

5 centuries ago, Geneva Bible Translators, your Trinity mentors, said Jesus Christ is archangel Michael and an angel of Jehovah @ Daniel 10:13. 12:1 & Joshua 5:14
This fact has been confirmed by KNOWMORE56, your fellow Trinitarian.
Bros, the same 'oly ghost is teaching you & your fellow Trinitarians, meet them for further expositions or continue typing GIBBERISH.

hupernikao:



You aren't yet to study the scriptures as a book.

Only Michael as archangel?
This error alone flaws all your other explanation, hence I won't address them. Go back and do your proper study of angels in the bible.
.

I detest going back and forth. It's left from you to free yourself from dogma of Trinity and be sincere with yourself.

Meaning of Archangel is “chief of the angels.” The prefix “arch” means “chief” . “Archangel” in the Bible is used only in the singular to indicates that there is just one archangel

1.Michael is an angel, the Archangel based on scripture and scripture alone.(Jude 9)

2.In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 it states the Lord (the resurrected Jesus Christ) calls the dead out with the voice of an “Archangel”.

3.Therefore, Jesus Christ and Michael are one and the same individual in different roles and position.

haddeylium:


I detest going back and forth. It's left from you to free yourself from dogma of Trinity and be sincere with yourself.

Meaning of Archangel is “chief of the angels.” The prefix “arch” means “chief” . “Archangel” in the Bible is used only in the singular to indicates that there is just one archangel

1.Michael is an angel, the Archangel based on scripture and scripture alone.(Jude 9)

2.In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 it states the Lord (the resurrected Jesus Christ) calls the dead out with the voice of an “Archangel”.

3.Therefore, Jesus Christ and Michael are one and the same individual in different roles and position.

girlie false jw haddeylium

u cannot stop lying like all false witnesses

archangel in God's word isn't used to indicate that there is only one archangel, like you lie and say

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a
murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


michael is just one of the archangels:

KJV Dan 10:13  But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

BBE Dan 10:13  But the angel of the kingdom of Persia put himself against me for twenty-one days; but Michael, one of the chief angels, came to my help; and when I came he was still there with the angel of the kings of Persia.


NLT Dan 10:13  But for twenty-one days the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia blocked my way. Then Michael, one of the archangels, came to help me, and I left him there with the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia.



ἀρχάγγελος
archaggelos
ar-khang'-el-os
a chief angel: - archangel.



try not to let michael being called one of the chief princes fool you
one of the chief prince, one of the chief angels, one of the archangels:- all the same

haddeylium:


I detest going back and forth. It's left from you to free yourself from dogma of Trinity and be sincere with yourself.

Meaning of Archangel is “chief of the angels.” The prefix “arch” means “chief” . “Archangel” in the Bible is used only in the singular to indicates that there is just one archangel

1.Michael is an angel, the Archangel based on scripture and scripture alone.(Jude 9)

2.In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 it states the Lord (the resurrected Jesus Christ) calls the dead out with the voice of an “Archangel”.

3.Therefore, Jesus Christ and Michael are one and the same individual in different roles and position.

You are the one moving back and forth. Why jumping from Michael is the ONLY archangel to Michael is Jesus.
This is what you wrote.

Meaning of Archangel is “chief of the angels.” The prefix “arch” means “chief” . “Archangel” in the Bible is used only in the singular to indicates that there is just one archangel

I have shown you scriptures that you are wrong on boht end but my last post is to correct you on think Michael is the only arch angel. I pointed you to Daniel

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

You left that one and start parading another error.

Please read scriptures well. Please nah beg I beg you. Your Bible interpretation is very poor to be sincere. How can you interpret 1 Thess 4:16 like this

See how you arrived at Jesus is angel Michael, like a chess player. This is draft playing you are doing not Bible study.

Please reread it again.
And when you are ready for sincere study, I will be here.

MaxInDHouse:
hupernikao will say "that place never mentioned "Jesus"" therefore Pastor KNOWMORE is wrong!

You can help us point to where Jesus is mentioned there

DappaD:


I have time for more pressing issues than reading your writeup. This is what I could get from all of your posts in summary:




Then my response was and has always been:



What you don’t know is that one thing leads to another because cause and effect is a real thing.
Please is Jesus still a Son of God or not after his resurrection to heaven? Why did he not cease being a Son of God since you said the title only refers to him as a human in earth? Address these issues and stop deflecting I actually don’t have time to read jargon.

I have written this 3 times now, you have a bad learning habit shown in the fact that you don't read but respond.

Jesus man, died as man for man, rose as man for man, sit on God's throne as man for man. He lives forever as the son of God (man) for your sake. That is God who became a man for humanity. This is the story of the Bible.


When you are having discussion with others it's proper for you to go through what they have to say so that you can communicate back properly.

It's a sign of a bad learning when you can't read others but want others to read you.

Go through my post you will find your answers there. If you then query it, I will be ready to answer you.

Janosky:


Bros, you wrote GIBBERISH.


5 centuries ago, Geneva Bible Translators, your Trinity mentors, said Jesus Christ is archangel Michael and an angel of Jehovah @ Daniel 10:13. 12:1 & Joshua 5:14
This fact has been confirmed by KNOWMORE56, your fellow Trinitarian.


Bros, the same 'oly ghost is teaching you & your fellow Trinitarians, meet them for further expositions or continue typing GIBBERISH.

Is this how you handle issues in real life?
I thought is only your Bible interpretation skill that was poor. But even your communication and relationship skill is poorer.

MaxInDHouse:
So far Jesus is not mentioned in that place then you have no point asking for where Jesus is mentioned in other scriptures when we can all see the similarities in what is being said!

. It's obvious you already found the answer but want to tarry in the loop

The answer is obvious to everyone.
Jesus is one of God's spirit sons (angels) so if there is any archangel and Jesus is the only begotten son of God it's easy and simple Jesus is no other than the archangel!

hupernikao:

. It's obvious you already found the answer but want to tarry in the loop

johnw47:


try not to let michael being called one of the chief princes fool you
one of the chief prince, one of the chief angels, one of the archangels:- all the same

Even if this the only thing you and your friend, hupernikoo will learn from this thread, don't lose it.

That's how the word 'Sar' in Daniel 10:13 was rendered

Princes
הַשָּׂרִ֥ים (haś·śā·rîm)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 8269

'Foremost of the chief princes'/ 'One of the chief princes'/ 'First of the chief princes'.
Nowhere is the word 'Angel' or 'Archangel' mentioned. Don't allow poor or biased Translations of the scriptures influenced you. If you did your research well, we won't be having this conversation and you'll the stress of explaining this to you two.
If you going to be civil with your replies and comments, I'll might further this discussion.

These are ranks amongst Angel in heaven

1. the ARCHANGEL,[/b]Michael as the chief angel and the great royal Prince of angelic princes(Da 8:25)

Da 7:9, 10; Mt 5:22; Jude 9; ; 10:13; 12:1; Re 12:7

2. [b]24 ELDERS, angels as royal princes

Da 7:9, 10; Re 4:4; Ps 105:22; 107:32; Mt 5:22

3. SERAPHS, angels as royal attendants

Da 7:10; Is 6:2, 3; Re 4:8; 5:11

4. CHERUBS, angels as royal guards

Da 7:10; Ex 25:20; Eze 10:20, 21; 5:11

5. ANGELS, as field messengers, protectors and executioners

Ps 103:20, 21; Ps 148:2; Jude 14


Michael 'the great prince and prince of princes' is the heavenly name of Jesus the ' Prince of Peace'
That's on period!

Just like your friend, just pretend like you didn't the part that the 'Prince of Peace' will be coming down with 'Archangel's voice' they he is

haddeylium
MaxInDHouse
DappaD
Janosky

I want to believe you are of the same belief system and hold the same Bible theology. The reason I will address you together.

The confusion you are having here is simple.

Firstly, you are not reading Bible text the way the author wrote it. You already have a mindset of what the scriptures is saying then now looking for scriptures to justify your stand. That is a wrong way of Bible study


2. You don't interpret scriptures by picking a verse out of its context without using it the way its context used it. Verse only have meaning within its narrative. You don't lift verse to support another verse by neglecting the meaning of same verse in the context where you lifted it from.

---

Now, let me emphasis what I have been saying since on this thread for you. I will put it in simple grammar to understand.

1. A fundamental fact in the Bible is that Jesus is a name of a man. A man born into this word. At least everyone reading the Bible will agree with this. It is not a name of an angel or name of God. It's human name.

That means, I must not loose focus of this when I see the name and must used it rightly.

Jesus is the name of the son of God (man).


2. Jesus wasn't mentioned in OT as a name nor did he appeared there as a person. He couldn't if we all read the Bible the right was, as Jesus is a man and not born by then.


3. The OT emphasized the oneness of God all through the OT, yet in God's plan revealed by his prophets in OT, it was evident that God's plan for man is that a man will be born in future as son of God (man) to save man. Thus he isn't an angel or any other being existing somewhere before. It was God himself who will be reveal as the son (man) to humanity.


4. The culture, language, history and theology of the Jews never expressed or explained God beyond the one true God.

... The lord our God is one...

But observe the OT Bible language well, the expression you will see of God are.

God
Spirit of God
God's Spirit
My Spirit
Lord God

All these are the same person expressed in different usage. The Spirit of God is God. This is evident in all the scriptures.

Hence what some refer to as God the Spirit, a personality well define in the scriptures as God.

But you won't see Jesus in any expression in OT but in form of a son to come revealed in OT prophecies.

Note this
All texts to be showing Jesus as God the Son or Jesus as angel in OT will fail critical test of the scriptures. Thus I advise such fellow should remove his self imagination glasses and read scriptures as inspired by God not by self.


5. In NT

God came to man, as man named Jesus. A model son. A man must have a father, hence, Jesus the son of God. Hence the reason you have the father/son relationship. It's because of humanity.

Note, OT already showed us that God is the one to come, to save man, to die for man. But God can't die, hence its a prophecy of a man, a son of God, the very God as the very man.

So, God became man, Jesus, hence the expression, God the son. This sonship is a full expression of God's love to man to save man. God became a son, carried the body of suffering as Christ for man's sake. Note, in sonship, God lay aside all glory, hence, the reasons you see Christ as full expression of man in attribute, yet the very God who gave up his privilege for man's sake.


6. That son, the man Jesus will continue to exist as the model son, at resurrection, he rose as man, ascended as man and sit at God's authority promised to man even before the foundation of the world.

That is why he is your lord today, you can have what he has because he did all he did as man for man. This is the reason we believe in the resurrection of our body. And reason we know man can and will live forever because we have a savior, a man, that rose and live not to die again eternally.


This is the story of the Bible.


Note
I didn't use a text of the scriptures because I wanted to present it in a story you can understand. Your response will determine if we can now look at the details of the scriptures.

haddeylium:


Even if this the only thing you and your friend, hupernikoo will learn from this thread, don't lose it.

That's how the word 'Sar' in Daniel 10:13 was rendered

Princes
הַשָּׂרִ֥ים (haś·śā·rîm)
Article | Noun - masculine plural
Strong's 8269

'Foremost of the chief princes'/ 'One of the chief princes'/ 'First of the chief princes'.
Nowhere is the word 'Angel' or 'Archangel' mentioned. Don't allow poor or biased Translations of the scriptures influenced you. If you did your research well, we won't be having this conversation and you'll the stress of explaining this to you two.
If you going to be civil with your replies and comments, I'll might further this discussion.

These are ranks amongst Angel in heaven

1. the ARCHANGEL,[/b]Michael as the chief angel and the great royal Prince of angelic princes(Da 8:25)

Da 7:9, 10; Mt 5:22; Jude 9; ; 10:13; 12:1; Re 12:7

2. [b]24 ELDERS, angels as royal princes

Da 7:9, 10; Re 4:4; Ps 105:22; 107:32; Mt 5:22

3. SERAPHS, angels as royal attendants

Da 7:10; Is 6:2, 3; Re 4:8; 5:11

4. CHERUBS, angels as royal guards

Da 7:10; Ex 25:20; Eze 10:20, 21; 5:11

5. ANGELS, as field messengers, protectors and executioners

Ps 103:20, 21; Ps 148:2; Jude 14


Michael 'the great prince and prince of princes' is the heavenly name of Jesus the ' Prince of Peace'
That's on period!

Just like your friend, just pretend like you didn't the part that the 'Prince of Peace' will be coming down with 'Archangel's voice' they he is

E sha like ké Ma quote scriptures ti o exist sha.

Dan 8:25
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.



See how you lined scriptures that doesn't even tally with anything. Bro I hope you have a BIBLE around you sha

You have watched too much movies. It's already getting scripted in your bible knowledge.

Your stand on the matter is clear to everyone but what we are saying here is that from Genesis to Revelation the messenger coming to redeem mankind is God's Son (not God Himself)
This messenger will serve as the lamb to be sacrificed for sin and there must be a recipient who will approve this sacrifice. So you can't expect any sane person to agree with you that the one offering the sacrifice (Highpriest) is the same recipient who will also approved the sacrifice.
That's where your perception on this matter is totally flawed.
Of course Jesus was a man born on this planet and before then there has never been anyone bearing that name. We believe that the person who came to be born as Jesus has been existing before Adam and so he must be a spirit being therefore if the Bible says this person is sent by the most high God it simply means he must be one of God's messengers in heaven (angels) not God Himself. As that will nullify the idea of having being sent by someone greater.
Throughout Jesus' life on earth he always refer to the person who sent him as "FATHER" while the one who sent and approved him always refer to Jesus as "SON"
Finally for you to convince any right thinking person on what you're saying, you have to present where your theory is being put to good use and it's benefits otherwise you're just another deluded and misinformed religionst!

hupernikao:

haddeylium
MaxInDHouse
DappaD
Janosky
I want to believe you are of the same belief system and hold the same Bible theology. The reason I will address you together.
The confusion you are having here is simple.
Firstly, you are not reading Bible text the way the author wrote it. You already have a mindset of what the scriptures is saying then now looking for scriptures to justify your stand. That is a wrong way of Bible study
2. You don't interpret scriptures by picking a verse out of its context without using it the way its context used it. Verse only have meaning within its narrative. You don't lift verse to support another verse by neglecting the meaning of same verse in the context where you lifted it from.

---

Now, let me emphasis what I have been saying since on this thread for you. I will put it in simple grammar to understand.
1. A fundamental fact in the Bible is that Jesus is a name of a man. A man born into this word. At least everyone reading the Bible will agree with this. It is not a name of an angel or name of God. It's human name.
That means, I must not loose focus of this when I see the name and must used it rightly.
Jesus is the name of the son of God (man).
2. Jesus wasn't mentioned in OT as a name nor did he appeared there as a person. He couldn't if we all read the Bible the right was, as Jesus is a man and not born by then.
3. The OT emphasized the oneness of God all through the OT, yet in God's plan revealed by his prophets in OT, it was evident that God's plan for man is that a man will be born in future as son of God (man) to save man. Thus he isn't an angel or any other being existing somewhere before. It was God himself who will be reveal as the son (man) to humanity.
4. The culture, language, history and theology of the Jews never expressed or explained God beyond the one true God.
... The lord our God is one...
But observe the OT Bible language well, the expression you will see of God are.
God
Spirit of God
God's Spirit
My Spirit
Lord God
All these are the same person expressed in different usage. The Spirit of God is God. This is evident in all the scriptures.
Hence what some refer to as God the Spirit, a personality well define in the scriptures as God. But you won't see Jesus in any expression in OT but in form of a son to come revealed in OT prophecies.
Note this
All texts to be showing Jesus as God the Son or Jesus as angel in OT will fail critical test of the scriptures. Thus I advise such fellow should remove his self imagination glasses and read scriptures as inspired by God not by self.
5. In NT
God came to man, as man named Jesus. A model son. A man must have a father, hence, Jesus the son of God. Hence the reason you have the father/son relationship. It's because of humanity. Note, OT already showed us that God is the one to come, to save man, to die for man. But God can't die, hence its a prophecy of a man, a son of God, the very God as the very man. So, God became man, Jesus, hence the expression, God the son. This sonship is a full expression of God's love to man to save man. God became a son, carried the body of suffering as Christ for man's sake. Note, in sonship, God lay aside all glory, hence, the reasons you see Christ as full expression of man in attribute, yet the very God who gave up his privilege for man's sake.
6. That son, the man Jesus will continue to exist as the model son, at resurrection, he rose as man, ascended as man and sit at God's authority promised to man even before the foundation of the world.
That is why he is your lord today, you can have what he has because he did all he did as man for man. This is the reason we believe in the resurrection of our body. And reason we know man can and will live forever because we have a savior, a man, that rose and live not to die again eternally. This is the story of the Bible.
Note
I didn't use a text of the scriptures because I wanted to present it in a story you can understand. Your response will determine if we can now look at the details of the scriptures.

hupernikao:
haddeylium
MaxInDHouse
DappaD
Janosky

I want to believe you are of the same belief system and hold the same Bible theology. The reason I will address you together.

The confusion you are having here is simple.

Firstly, you are not reading Bible text the way the author wrote it. You already have a mindset of what the scriptures is saying then now looking for scriptures to justify your stand. That is a wrong way of Bible study


2. You don't interpret scriptures by picking a verse out of its context without using it the way its context used it. Verse only have meaning within its narrative. You don't lift verse to support another verse by neglecting the meaning of same verse in the context where you lifted it from.

---

Now, let me emphasis what I have been saying since on this thread for you. I will put it in simple grammar to understand.

1. A fundamental fact in the Bible is that Jesus is a name of a man. A man born into this word. At least everyone reading the Bible will agree with this. It is not a name of an angel or name of God. It's human name.

That means, I must not loose focus of this when I see the name and must used it rightly.

Jesus is the name of the son of God (man).


2. Jesus wasn't mentioned in OT as a name nor did he appeared there as a person. He couldn't if we all read the Bible the right was, as Jesus is a man and not born by then.


3. The OT emphasized the oneness of God all through the OT, yet in God's plan revealed by his prophets in OT, it was evident that God's plan for man is that a man will be born in future as son of God (man) to save man. Thus he isn't an angel or any other being existing somewhere before. It was God himself who will be reveal as the son (man) to humanity.


4. The culture, language, history and theology of the Jews never expressed or explained God beyond the one true God.

... The lord our God is one...

But observe the OT Bible language well, the expression you will see of God are.

God
Spirit of God
God's Spirit
My Spirit
Lord God

All these are the same person expressed in different usage. The Spirit of God is God. This is evident in all the scriptures.

Hence what some refer to as God the Spirit, a personality well define in the scriptures as God.

But you won't see Jesus in any expression in OT but in form of a son to come revealed in OT prophecies.

Note this
All texts to be showing Jesus as God the Son or Jesus as angel in OT will fail critical test of the scriptures. Thus I advise such fellow should remove his self imagination glasses and read scriptures as inspired by God not by self.


5. In NT

[b]God came to man, as man named Jesus. A model son. A man must have a father, hence, Jesus the son of God. [/b]Hence the reason you have the father/son relationship. It's because of humanity.

Note, OT already showed us that God is the one to come, to save man, to die for man. But God can't die, hence its a prophecy of a man, a son of God, the very God as the very man.

So, God became man, Jesus, hence the expression, God the son. This sonship is a full expression of God's love to man to save man. God became a son, carried the body of suffering as Christ for man's sake. Note, in sonship, God lay aside all glory, hence, the reasons you see Christ as full expression of man in attribute, yet the very God who gave up his privilege for man's sake.


6. That son, the man Jesus will continue to exist as the model son, at resurrection, he rose as man, ascended as man and sit at God's authority promised to man even before the foundation of the world.

That is why he is your lord today, you can have what he has because he did all he did as man for man. This is the reason we believe in the resurrection of our body. And reason we know man can and will live forever because we have a savior, a man, that rose and live not to die again eternally.


This is the story of the Bible.


Note
I didn't use a text of the scriptures because I wanted to present it in a story you can understand. Your response will determine if we can now look at the details of the scriptures.

Your Point 3 (bolded)
"Thus he isn't an angel or any other being existing somewhere before.
Your Trinity God is not a being existing somewhere before "
Hupernikao Continue to RUBBISH your own FALSE claims


John 5:39 (compare Luke 24:25-27,44).
".... 39You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me."

The old testament testify about Jesus Christ.
Bros, the story of your GIBBERISH is NOT the story of the holy scriptures.



Genesis 16:7
1599 Geneva Bible

7 ¶ But the [h]Angel of the Lord found her beside a fountain in the way of Shur,

Footnotes
h. Genesis 16:7 Which was Christ, as appeareth verse 13 and Gen. 18:17.

Your Trinity mentors says "angel of the Lord (Yahweh)" Genesis 16:7 is the Old Testament's first appearance of the person named "Jesus" in the holy scriptures.

MaxInDHouse:
When will you learn nah?

Did JWs GB come to speak face to face with your pastors before you realized that they are better than your pastors?

Well it's just what they taught us that made us understand that they are the only source of guidance that Jesus is using today! John 6:68

As for TB Joshua, you've got nothing tangible to say against him, as long as you subscribe to miracles and healings TB Joshua's ministry shouldn't be your problem, because he is doing exactly what you expected of your men of God!

As usual, you sidestepped the many points and corrections and move elsewhere as the Hypocrite that you are. Again, you forgot to answer the very simple question i asked about if you will collect money for Awake. You have to be quite gullible to be so hoodwinked at the bold.

hupernikao:


You are the one moving back and forth. Why jumping from Michael is the ONLY archangel to Michael is Jesus.
This is what you wrote.



I have shown you scriptures that you are wrong on boht end but my last post is to correct you on think Michael is the only arch angel. I pointed you to Daniel

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

You left that one and start parading another error.

Please read scriptures well. Please nah beg I beg you. Your Bible interpretation is very poor to be sincere. How can you interpret 1 Thess 4:16 like this

See how you arrived at Jesus is angel Michael, like a chess player. This is draft playing you are doing not Bible study.

Please reread it again.
And when you are ready for sincere study, I will be here.

Bros, your claim is FALSE.

Genesis 4:19 Hebrew 259 lexicon,means "the first", the senior.
@ Daniel 10:13,("one of the chief princes) ,as it applies to Daniel 10:13, means "the head of angels".
Geneva Bible since 1599 confirmed that Hebrew 259 means " the Head of angels", that is Jesus Christ..
Matthew 25:31 & 2 Thess1:7-9, 1Thess 4:16, Revelation 12:7-9, according to your Bible, Bros,who is the head of angels?

Bros, stop posting FALSE claims.

Hypocrite! Hypocrite!! Hypocrite!!!

No wahala, please PRESENT a better performing group than JWs!

Image123:

As usual, you sidestepped the many points and corrections and move elsewhere as the Hypocrite that you are. Again, you forgot to answer the very simple question i asked about if you will collect money for Awake. You have to be quite gullible to be so hoodwinked at the bold.

Image123:


Joh 14:5  Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 
Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus was evidently talking to His disciples, or more directly Thomas in this instance. Yet you clearly lie that He was saying this to religious leaders. Well, you'd rather believe your sad hall publications than common sense or the clear Word of God. When you repent from hypocrisy and become noble like the people of Berea, you would know indeed whether your lies are so.
The religious leaders had issueS with Jesus, not just an issue. They had issues with His healings, with His doctrine, with His actions on the Sabbath, with with calling Himself the Son of God, with Him forgiving sins, virtually with everything. Try to read the Bible and dump these junk that you sell. You are starting to embarrass literacy.

You forgot to answer the very simple question i asked about if you will collect monwy for Awake. We all know the chorus answer, which is YES. But your hypocrisy and pride will not allow you. Lol @ we are not the only good people, we are the only good group. What shameful dance are you doing? Is that not the exact thing i accused you of? Here you come mentioning your secret mentor TB that i did not even mention or think of. i asked you earlier in another thread but you did not answer. Will you also be his disciple? Remember, you are looking for power. Your organisation told you to wait till paradise or something, but you don't want all that. You are here online disgracing yourself up and down seeking for power from astral practice, now to TB your secret crush. Accept my condolences ehnn. Did he sponsor your schooling?

John 14:1-6, Jesus Christ was talking to the disciples, Yes !

Did the religious leaders believe in John 14:1-6?

Any donations for Awake! Magazine or any other JWs publications is at the behest of the individual who is willing to do so.

If you desire to make voluntary donation, that's ok.
If don't, no qualms.
Better still, anyone interested in our publications, it's available online and offline.

hupernikao:

You can help us point to where Jesus is mentioned there

John 5:39, Luke 24:25-27,44, Jesus Christ confirmed the holy scriptures testimony of his person.

hupernikao:


You aren't reading what I wrote well Sir.

Jesus, God became a man and will remain a man for your sake. God's authority was not for God, it's for man. David showed you that Ps 8, Genesis told you that Gen 1.

God's dominion is for man. Christ (man) is the model son (man) that entered into that dominion through his obedience (God don't obey God, the man Jesus did). This is so that men can know that, man can be at peace with God and dwell in same place with God.

Jesus, is called your brother because he is the man Jesus. God is not your brother, he is your God. Jesus, the son (man) is our brother. That is God who became man for you.

He died as man, rose as man, sit today in heavenly as man. This is why you can sit in him. God don't sit, man sit in the place of authority. He became God's servant for you. You have to understand Bible language used for Jesus even till now. It's man's authority.

So, take your Bible and read all prophecies of old in this light so that you won't start seeing Jesus man in heaven before his birth in earth.

This is foundation of Bible theology.

Your first point, "God became a man and will remain a man for your sake".
Bros, God went back to heaven to meet himself?

God who came to earth was praying to himself in heaven?

Image123:


As usual, you sidestepped the many points and corrections and move elsewhere as the Hypocrite that you are. Again, you forgot to answer the very simple question i asked about if you will collect money for Awake. You have to be quite gullible to be so hoodwinked at the bold.

If your donation for Awake! is voluntary, We welcome only voluntary donations.
2 Corinthians 9:7. Luke 21:1-4.