hupernikao:


This is the verse you have been throwing un and down. You claim Jesus called himself "angel of the Lord"

Now read through your quoted verses and first show me exactly where Jesus is mentioned here.

Just one place here, where you read Jesus. Is like your imagination is really at its highest point. Since you cant read properly again.

7 And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
9 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
13 And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her, THOU GOD SEEST ME: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

The problem with most of you folks is the fact that you want to see or robe Jesus into every statement you read because you read with imagination not proper reading of the inspired word.

Point to where Jesus was mentioned in the above statement.

Janosky:

You can't disprove the truth in that post but....
Bros, console yourself jare.

MaxInDHouse:


The angel that spoke with her was sent from heaven just as Jesus was sent {John 3:16-18} in this Bible quote it's clear that any spirit person sent from heaven is one of the angels and such a person can represent God just as the angel told Hagar "i will multiply thy seed exceedingly"
Only God can do that so the angel was speaking in behalf of God just as Jesus (another spirit son of God) said so many things in behalf of his father!
But this is not a debate session rather it's for those who want to study the Bible with JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
Note that i purposely mentioned the group name so it's not about coming here for a debate,
A study is between two persons, the one teaching and one learning. As the learner already know the worth of his teacher and the teacher also know the level of the student. But a debate is between two rival parties, both will have to properly introduce themselves so that the spectators will know where the idea is coming from and the group adhering to what each debator is supporting. So if you want to debate with JWs you can open a thread, tell everyone the name of your church and what you believe as a bonafide member then one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES will volunteer to debate with you. Don't come and start arguing blindly when everyone knows that the churches claiming CHRISTIANS aren't teaching the same thing. Please if you truly want a debate any of JWs will do that with you provided you name the church whose teachings you're standing for!

KNOWMORE56:

"[/b]....A study is between two persons, the one teaching and one learning. As the learner already know the worth of his teacher and the teacher also know the level of the student...."[b]
At least the students/learners questions and curiosity should not be called argument.
A teacher should be competent and amicable to attend to the students.

KNOWMORE56:

Let's start the Bible study...
Which topic are going to start with?
I will suggest "armageddon"....
What is armageddon?
Where is armageddon? and
Why armageddon?

MaxInDHouse:


True!
Just as i curiously questioned Jehovah's Witnesses for over two decades before my conversion.
But there's one motive powering my curiosity: i believe in one God and one form of worship {John 4:24} where all those worshiping will have the same line of thought {John 17:20-23; 1Corinthians 1:10} and globally people will known them as a group speaking the same language of truth worshiping shoulder to shoulder! Zephaniah 3:9

So i want to be sure my teacher belongs to this group that's the reason why i'm questioning him!

Do you believe this?
If you do, do you have any religious group in mind? Because initially i thought it was Islam but there is no group anyone can present in Islam, therefore i turned to search for this group in Christianity. Micah 4:1-3
So if you don't have any group in mind then you shouldn't be the one picking topics since you don't even know which group is practicing pure worship!

MaxInDHouse:


True!
Just as i curiously questioned Jehovah's Witnesses for over two decades before my conversion.
But there's one motive powering my curiosity: i believe in one God and one form of worship {John 4:24} where all those worshiping will have the same line of thought {John 17:20-23; 1Corinthians 1:10} and globally people will known them as a group speaking the same language of truth worshiping shoulder to shoulder! Zephaniah 3:9

So i want to be sure my teacher belongs to this group that's the reason why i'm questioning him!

Do you believe this?
If you do, do you have any religious group in mind? Because initially i thought it was Islam but there is no group anyone can present in Islam, therefore i turned to search for this group in Christianity. Micah 4:1-3
So if you don't have any group in mind then you shouldn't be the one picking topics since you don't even know which group is practicing pure worship!

KNOWMORE56:


[/b]"...So i want to be sure my teacher belongs to this group that's the reason why i'm questioning him!"[b]

Who confirm the group (or your this your description) as godly?

This is what brings false convictions to humanity.
It's called idol in the heart. King Ahab chose such when he was searching.

He would not accept prophet Micaiah for the sake of the 450 prophets who had the same line of thoughts, (1 Kings 22:8-15)

God of the Bible says whoever sets idol in his heart and then come to make inquiry, that He will answer the individual according to the idol in his heart.

*. Ezekiel 14:3 "KJV:Son of man, THESE MEN HAVE SET UP THEIR IDOLS IN THEIR HEART, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?
4
KJV:Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; EVERY MAN of the house of Israel THAT SETTETH UP HIS IDOLS IN HIS HEART, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I THE LORD WILL ANSWER HIM THAT COMETH ACCORDING TO THE MULTITUDE OF HIS IDOLS;"

*. Ezekiel 20:16 "KJV: BECAUSE THEY DESPISED MY JUDGMENTS, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS."

Note:
THESE MEN HAVE SET UP THEIR IDOLS IN THEIR HEART,
EVERY MAN THAT SETTETH UP HIS IDOLS IN HIS HEART,
I THE LORD WILL ANSWER HIM THAT COMETH ACCORDING TO THE MULTITUDE OF HIS IDOLS;"

So dear max, empty your heart of your idols and He will reveal Himself to you.

KNOWMORE56:


[/b] "...So if you don't have any group in mind then you shouldn't be the one...."[b]

I'm warned by my Maker to avoid idol in the heart - Ezekiel 14:3

MaxInDHouse:


So there's no need worrying yourself if you think this is about an idol Sir!

KNOWMORE56:

What do you mean? Word of God calls it idols in the heart not me.

MaxInDHouse:


The angel that spoke with her was sent from heaven just as Jesus was sent {John 3:16-18} in this Bible quote it's clear that any spirit person sent from heaven is one of the angels and such a person can represent God just as the angel told Hagar "i will multiply thy seed exceedingly"
Only God can do that so the angel was speaking in behalf of God just as Jesus (another spirit son of God) said so many things in behalf of his father!
But this is not a debate session rather it's for those who want to study the Bible with JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
Note that i purposely mentioned the group name so it's not about coming here for a debate,
A study is between two persons, the one teaching and one learning. As the learner already know the worth of his teacher and the teacher also know the level of the student. But a debate is between two rival parties, both will have to properly introduce themselves so that the spectators will know where the idea is coming from and the group adhering to what each debator is supporting. So if you want to debate with JWs you can open a thread, tell everyone the name of your church and what you believe as a bonafide member then one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES will volunteer to debate with you. Don't come and start arguing blindly when everyone knows that the churches claiming CHRISTIANS aren't teaching the same thing. Please if you truly want a debate any of JWs will do that with you provided you name the church whose teachings you're standing for!

hupernikao:

You are yet to answer the question. Dont drop scriptures you cant defend. Where did you read Jesus in the text. Or its imagination.

MaxInDHouse:


Well if my ideas means idolatry to you there's no need coming to me for a study nah?

KNOWMORE56:

Ok

hupernikao:


I will stay on the topic of your misinterpretation of Jesus as angel first. Since you are yet to still understand what the name or the person Jesus means. Nor understand the humanity of Christ. Going into his resurrection will only bring more confusion to your reading.

All texts you quoted up there has nothing to do with what the authors implied. They are your imaginations. But it's allowed, it's a stage in Bible learning. To imagine, to lift scriptures and see self revelation in the name of spirit inspired revelation.

I am sure soon you will be able to fully read the scriptures and accept it the way the authors were inspired and interpret it as such.

Pending that time, get this right in your mind and it will help your explanation of who the man Jesus is.

1. Jesus is a man born of a woman, the savior of the world.

2. Jesus wasn't the name of God, it's a name given by God to a MAN at birth, who will at last bear the authority of God.

3. When you Read OT text, stop referencing Jesus as preexisting in any form. No text for that. I know you have text that can confuse your reading. But check it well, they are mostly prophecy of the future about a MAN to be born, Jesus. Any interpretation outside this is self imagination.

.

hupernikao:


This is the verse you have been throwing un and down. You claim Jesus called himself "angel of the Lord"

Now read through your quoted verses and first show me exactly where Jesus is mentioned here.

Just one place here, where you read Jesus. Is like your imagination is really at its highest point. Since you cant read properly again.

7 And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
9 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
13 And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her,'Thou (you) God seest me':, for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

The problem with most of you folks is the fact that you want to see or robe Jesus into every statement you read because you read with imagination not proper reading of the inspired word.

Point to where Jesus was mentioned in the above statement.

hupernikao:


Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by hupernikao: 9:05am On Jun 21


Truthfully also, when study wholesomely, all scriptures pointed to Christ as the GOD of OT writings, the MAN in the prophecies of the prophets of old, revealed in HUMANITY in this last days

Oga Hupernikao, Bros you well?

KNOWMORE56:


Let's start the Bible study...
Which topic are going to start with?

I will suggest "armageddon"....

What is armageddon?
Where is armageddon? and
Why armageddon?

Janosky:

Oga Hupernikao, Bros you well?

hupernikao:


You are yet to answer the question. Dont drop scriptures you cant defend. Where did you read Jesus in the text. Or its imagination.

hupernikao:

Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by hupernikao: 9:05am On Jun 21


Truthfully also, when study wholesomely, all scriptures pointed to Christ as the GOD of OT writings, the MAN in the prophecies of the prophets of old, revealed in HUMANITY in this last days

Hupernikao, when you forget & type GIBBERISH, the internet never forgets you messed up big time.


"Truthfully also, when study wholesomely, all scriptures pointed to Christ as the GOD of OT writings"

Janosky:

Hupernikao, when you forget & type GIBBERISH, the internet never forgets you messed up big time.


"Truthfully also, when study wholesomely, all scriptures pointed to Christ as the GOD of OT writings"

MaxInDHouse:

People like him just want to argue they don't have any purpose so allow him to go and sought out whatever he want with his brethren in TRINITY.
This thread is strictly for only those who have found something unique in JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES Organization and feel like studying the Bible with us to know how we are able to maintain the oneness, love, peace and joy of a global family of zealous preachers and industrious teachers of the word of our God!

Janosky:



Oga Hupernikao, Bros you well?

Janosky:


The holy Scriptures is from Genesis to Revelation.
John 8:38, Jesus Christ says he pre-exists with his Father.
Therefore, Job 2:1 & Job 38:1-7, Jesus is there.
Simple, direct & straight forward.

Is Jesus not your God in the old testament?
According to your claim, Jesus is your God of old testament. Your God in the flesh is "Jesus."
It's DUBIOUS for you to claim your Triune God, Jesus did not pre-exists.

Bros,STOP DECEIVING yourself.


Go and read your English primer on what Father and what God is, then come back for discussion. You are still not able to read English well and you are claiming arguing with English Bible in your hand. You will only get more confusion.

hupernikao:

Strawman exit strategy is what you throw above.Bros, lets face the scriptures.

hupernikao:

When you reach a good level of knowing how to read properly in years to come, open this thread again and read all i have posted, you will full appreciate it and dismay your slackness in past years.

MaxInDHouse:


Is this not the same thing you're expecting from all your brethren in TRINITY?

You wish all of them could see the scriptures from your point of view, just as each one of you wished for one another and the result is no agreement in your midst for the past 1800 years that Constantine initiated this fallacy.
Is that not the reason why you can't present any group of persons practicing your TRINITY doctrine in the right sense?
So you're now expecting members of a well organized and orderly group whose teachings and practices are well recognize globally to come and start arguing fruitlessly with you who can't even present any notable group practicing what you are saying! 1Timothy 6:4; Titus 3:9

At times it baffles me why you're so blind and deaf to the impotency of this your TRINITY god {Psalms 115:5-8} because a real god will make sure he keep a people for Himself {Isaiah 43:10-12; Act 15:14} so that onlookers from everywhere could look at them and say "this are the worshipers of this god" Matthew 5:13-16 compare to John 17:20-23

But in the case of TRINITY each worshiper just face his/her own different direction so that globally nobody can say "this are the true worshipers of TRINITY" because contradictions are everywhere! Luke 11:23

Sorry it's not about arguing to win but studying for a purpose which is IDENTIFYING the group of people getting timely spiritual food {Isaiah 65:13-15} and those feeding them {Matthew 24:15} in this endtime when there is an ongoing global spiritual famine! Amos 8:11

MaxInDHouse:


Go and face it with your brethren in TRINITY then after you are through with them everyone will SEE the positive results of your endeavors.
This thread is open only for those who have noticed the uniqueness of God's people within a renown Organization, they are the ones invited to come and study with "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES" in order to know how we have used the wisdom found in God's word to maintain and sustain LOVE, JOY and PEACE in our global family! Isaiah 2:2-4
May you have PEACE!

hupernikao:

Bro, you are just going out of point. I am sure you Bible has not being stolen. Open it and discuss it. You are the one who called for Bible study. Why the complain now. The moment you cant defend your wrong text and teaching, it become an argument.

hupernikao:

But you are my brother of Non Trinity abi?
Is that not unique enough.

haddeylium:
2.In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 it states the Lord (the resurrected Jesus Christ) calls the dead out with the voice of an “Archangel”.

3.[s]Therefore, Jesus Christ and Michael are one and the same individual in different roles and position.[/s]

true2god:
Your point 2, which the JWs use as the only prove of Jesus being an angel, is false and never supported by any other verse of the scripture. If you quote the verse completely, without omitting the 2nd statement in the same verse, you will end up exposing your fallacy.

New King James Version
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

1) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout.

2) with the voice of an archangel (the verse says 'an archangel' which means there are more than one archangels)

3) with the trumpet of God (if Jesus is the voice of an archangel, as you claim, he is equally the trumpet of God. You cannot pick and choose what you want from the verse).

My conclusion: Jesus will descend from heaven in company of an archangel, which the bible never specified his name, whose shout (voice) will herald his coming in company of other angels who will blow the trumpet of God. This is a simple English that JWs, and the governing body, had twisted in order to establish a strange and heretical theology.

Side bar:

1) New King James Version (Heb 1:5)
For to which of the angels did He EVER say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? The answer is NONE (angel Michael inclusive).

JWs should stop talking nonsense abeg and read the Bible themselves without following the watchtower script : what the bibe really teaches.