Kobojunkie:
I see Satan more as God's quality control manager on the evil side... Like he tests mans every weaknesses to ensure man at least meets God's standard.

The conversation God has with Satan in Job 1 is quite revealing of this.

Right.

MightySparrow:

You have not given any intelligible answer, you display more of the delusion that reason.
The simple question is why Jesus and not the devil.
May I should add another, ' why is plan or redemption taking so long a time since the Fall? Meaningful answers biko

Now i know why you're always referring to sound and reasonable Interpretation as delusion, perhaps you'll find happiness in ATHEISM or AGNOSTISM!

MaxInDHouse:


Now i know why you're always referring to sound and reasonable Interpretation as delusion, perhaps you'll find happiness in ATHEISM or AGNOSTISM!

Na, none of your suggestions is my choice. A simple question demands a simple answer not rhetorics.

MightySparrow:

You have not given any intelligible answer, you display more of the delusion that reason.
The simple question is why Jesus and not the devil.
May I should add another, ' why is plan or redemption taking so long a time since the Fall? Meaningful answers biko

OK so now you want meaningful/intelligible answers from people you claimed are living in delusion? FYI, this is how a certain Nairalander by the name LordR.eed started out. He was what I would call your regular churchgoer until when he began to realise that he couldn’t substantiate his faith since real faith is not a possession of many(2Thessalonians 3:2) and so he became a full-time atheist.
Your question makes it evident that many who aren’t Witnesses are in serious spiritual hunger & thirst. Luke 16:24
Jehovah’s Witnesses always invite people to come and join them in partaking from Jehovah’s table where there are an abundance of rich, free, spiritual delicacies(Isaiah 25:6, 55:1, Revelation 22:17) which helps one remain spiritually alive and healthy(Deuteronomy 8:3) but since most people decide to reject the proper source of spiritual food(Isaiah 55:2), they remain in spiritual hunger. Amos 8:11

MightySparrow:
The whole story of redemption somehow not logical.It generates much questions than answers it intends to proffer.
Why would a third party die for a sin not committed?
Why Jesus? Why didn't God destroy the Devil for once? Theologians in the house over to you.

MightySparrow.
Good morning

There is no biblical evidence that God did kill Jesus. No text to the scriptures affirmed such. God isnt a killer nor does he need to drink blood to be pacified.

Such doctrine and theology comes from miss interpretation of scriptures or imagination of readers mind in the name of revelation.


What the Bible taught was that man killed Jesus, the Jews specifically. And this was done to truncate God's plan.

We saw this in Abel/Cain, Joseph and his brothers, Saul/David, Jesus/Pharisees.

Luke 11
50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.

Those are man's action to oppose God's plan yet God's plan always prevail in his wisdom. This is same for Jesus.

Hence, we have seen God works through the ages even in the midst of opposition to his will, man's evil actions or weaknesses, we have seen him work his plan out for man. This is the wisdom of God. He doesnt need to kill to achieve his will but must work through man's will and decisions since his activities are among men. Hence, always observe what is Gods action and what is man's action in reading the bible.

Hence, the story of redemption is not only logical, it is perfectly true.

MightySparrow:

Na, none of your suggestions is my choice. A simple question demands a simple answer not rhetorics.

I am Maximus one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, are you ready to fetch the answer to your question in the Bible all by yourself?

I will only guide you to the answers if only you're willing to learn!

MaxInDHouse:


I am Maximus one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, are you ready to fetch the answer to your question in the Bible all by yourself?

I will only guide you to the answers is only you're willing to learn!

Give answer.

DappaD:


OK so now you want meaningful/intelligible answers from people you claimed are living in delusion? FYI, this is how a certain Nairalander by the name LordR.eed started out. He was what I would call your regular churchgoer until when he began to realise that he couldn’t substantiate his faith since real faith is not a possession of many(2Thessalonians 3:2) and so he became a full-time atheist.
Your question makes it evident that many who aren’t Witnesses are in serious spiritual hunger & thirst. Luke 16:24
Jehovah’s Witnesses always invite people to come and join them in partaking from Jehovah’s table where there are an abundance of rich, free, spiritual delicacies(Isaiah 25:6, 55:1, Revelation 22:17) which helps one remain spiritually alive and healthy(Deuteronomy 8:3) but since most people decide to reject the proper source of spiritual food(Isaiah 55:2), they remain in spiritual hunger. Amos 8:11

Self acclaimed Bible teachers! The thinking of sole owner of knowledge of scriptures is the delusion I always mention. Over the years, the organisation has made some serious errors. Some it has acknowledged, some they have not. Some ex - members with good conscience have either left or disfellowshipes for the sake of truth. Many of these honest seekers served the erring organisation for decades before realising its errors.
As for me, I still read your publications, nothing new about rycling same rhetorics.

You will be a good seeker of truth if you expand your sphere of source of knowledge. Most of JWs I have met, are people that have their minds conditioned by indoctrination not actual knowledge. Those who are bold to leave the organisation regret the time of brainwashing in the 'truth'.

One or many hundreds on YouTube is Eric Wilson. Make time to watch him. Only unserious Christian can take JWs serious. Keep your spiritual food bro.

MightySparrow:

Give answer.

That's not how Jesus taught us to answer questions when you're not yet aware of who we are, what we're asked to do with you is reason with you so you're the one who will be convinced after we guide you to the answer.

So are you ready to study the Bible with one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES who will guide you to fetch the answers to your questions in the Bible?

Christian and their confusion
Your Pastors and Churches quarel, jealous, hate and claim superiority among themselves
You also do the same thing among yourselves
You all claim to have the Holy Spirit, understand the bible and see visions
Can't you guys see the handwriting on the wall....the true Creator is not the author of confusion and can never behold all these sins among you. He is not among you

The Creator never killed the Messiah.
The Messiah never died for your sins. You sins remain yours until you decide to repent. Even if you believe he died for your sin, you can't still stop sinning. The idea of saving you all from your sins is in the future when he will reconcile his ppl(Isaiah 11:11-13) and rule as their King and give all a pure heart. He was Murdered or lynched cos they taught he will establish his Kingdom in his first coming and rule all with a rod of iron which is his laws (Psalm 2:9; Rev 12:5). They killed him to stop his mission of reconciling the lost tribes with those he met in Judah (Matt 15:24). Rev 12:10 and 12 clearly told you who his death saved. The idea of him dying on earth was for him to go back to heaven and join the war as the sacrifice that was offered to defeat the devil and throw him down. This was why he once told his disciples that he saw the devil falling. He will go there to defeat him and his angels. That was why he died on earth but Christians interpreted it as dying for their sins. Those who were on earth were told that the devil comes to torment them. There salvation from sins and the devil depends on the return of the Messiah on earth to destroy his enemies and establish his Kingdom. When you sin, you confess them and ask for forgiveness and you will be forgiven. The story that he died for your sins is a man made doctrine. You are the one who sinned and should beg for forgiveness. No one died for your sins. He will free all from sin when He returns. Take that to your bank. That is the raw truth.

He already knows the truth but he detests it with passion!

When someone publicly said i (Maximus) has been forcing him to become one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES on social media, please what else remains than to plainly come out and say:

"your explanation is really convincing but why can't you just explain without having a particular group in mind?"

DappaD:


OK so now you want meaningful/intelligible answers from people you claimed are living in delusion? FYI, this is how a certain Nairalander by the name LordR.eed started out. He was what I would call your regular churchgoer until when he began to realise that he couldn’t substantiate his faith since real faith is not a possession of many(2Thessalonians 3:2) and so he became a full-time atheist.
Your question makes it evident that many who aren’t Witnesses are in serious spiritual hunger & thirst. Luke 16:24
Jehovah’s Witnesses always invite people to come and join them in partaking from Jehovah’s table where there are an abundance of rich, free, spiritual delicacies(Isaiah 25:6, 55:1, Revelation 22:17) which helps one remain spiritually alive and healthy(Deuteronomy 8:3) but since most people decide to reject the proper source of spiritual food(Isaiah 55:2), they remain in spiritual hunger. Amos 8:11

I personally do not have any issue with you and recently I’ve grown tired of arguments so this is my last reply to you. I regularly observe the encounter you have with Max and I drew the conclusion that once someone is able to comfortably defend his faith, you would label him “deluded” and “brainwashed”. These are the two questions you asked:

MightySparrow:

Why Jesus? Why didn't God destroy the Devil for once?

MightySparrow:

May I should add another, ' why is plan or redemption taking so long a time since the Fall?

These are questions that a toddler who handles Bible reading parts in the organization that you despise so much can easily answer off the top of his head.

MightySparrow:

Self acclaimed Bible teachers! The thinking of sole owner of knowledge of scriptures is the delusion I always mention. Over the years, the organisation has made some serious errors. Some it has acknowledged, some they have not. Some ex - members with good conscience have either left or disfellowshipes for the sake of truth. Many of these honest seekers served the erring organisation for decades before realising its errors.
As for me, I still read your publications, nothing new about rycling same rhetorics.
You will be a good seeker of truth if you expand your sphere of source of knowledge. Most of JWs I have met, are people that have their minds conditioned by indoctrination not actual knowledge. Those who are bold to leave the organisation regret the time of brainwashing in the 'truth'.
One or many hundreds on YouTube is Eric Wilson. Make time to watch him. Only unserious Christian can take JWs serious.Keep your spiritual food bro.

Of course, you didn’t think I was applying Jesus’ counsel at Matthew 7:6 in this case?

MightySparrow:

Self acclaimed Bible teachers! The thinking of sole owner of knowledge of scriptures is the delusion I always mention. Over the years, the organisation has made some serious errors. Some it has acknowledged, some they have not. Some ex - members with good conscience have either left or disfellowshipes for the sake of truth. Many of these honest seekers served the erring organisation for decades before realising its errors.
As for me, I still read your publications, nothing new about rycling same rhetorics.

You will be a good seeker of truth if you expand your sphere of source of knowledge. Most of JWs I have met, are people that have their minds conditioned by indoctrination not actual knowledge. Those who are bold to leave the organisation regret the time of brainwashing in the 'truth'.

One or many hundreds on YouTube is Eric Wilson. Make time to watch him. Only unserious Christian can take JWs serious. Keep your spiritual food bro.

In that case go and meet those you think are real Christians and get your answers from them!

Perhaps you've not realized that none of all those that leave the Organization can present any better performing group they joined after leaving JWs.

Well for your information, they're just like you as they don't want any Organization that will teach them always rather they want to make it a give and take matter so that it's whatever suit them that they will adhere to!
So you're in their shoes now at least all your so called miracle performing pastors are saying the same thing and since they can't help you with the answer to your question then it means you should either open your own Church or go straight for ATHEISM!

An all powerful, all seeing, all knowing being who sent its son to die in the hands of mere mortal men in order to save them from the problem it had created initially. Yeah, makes total sense.

MightySparrow:
The whole story of redemption somehow not logical.It generates much questions than answers it intends to proffer.
Why would a third party die for a sin not committed?
Why Jesus? Why didn't God destroy the Devil for once? Theologians in the house over to you.

it was scam brother

MightySparrow:
The whole story of redemption somehow not logical.It generates much questions than answers it intends to proffer.
Why would a third party die for a sin not committed?
Why Jesus? Why didn't God destroy the Devil for once? Theologians in the house over to you.

----------------------

1. "Why would a third party die for a sin not committed?" -

First, because the sins were, have, and are committed and GOD knows and declares "the end from the beginning" (Isaiah 46:9-10), and because when you genuinely love someone, you will do whatever you can for them... including giving your life if necessary. GOD expresses His love for His creation and people, so He did what was necessary to save them/us by standing in as a substitute to receive the punishment required by the law "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 6:23

GOD's love expressed: "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." - John 15:13-14

"...and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood" - Revelation 1:5 (Also John 3:16 and 1 John 4:19).


2. "Why Jesus? Why didn't God destroy the Devil for once?"

GOD has already passed said judgment - fulfillment of His unfailing word will follow!

"Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out." - John 12:31

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" - Matthew 25:41

"The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." - Revelation 20:10

xproducer:
GOD's love expressed: "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." - John 15:13-14

"...and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood" - Revelation 1:5 (Also John 3:16 and 1 John 4:19).

1. You missed the part where Jesus Christ clearly told you that He gives His life for His friends - those who do whatever He commands of them -and not for everybody else.

2. John 3 vs 16 never in fact states that the Salvation offered by Jesus Christ is from sins but instead from Death, the punishment
or condemnation of Sin.

Kobojunkie:
1. You missed the part where Jesus Christ clearly told you that He gives His life for His friends - those who do whatever He commands of them -and not for everybody else.

----

... and here comes "kobojunkie" to falsely report that one has stated something that one did not! I will not engage because you often (not always), make no sense!

Where did I mention "everybody else"?

Fact, the Lord JESUS, The CHRIST - died for the elect of GOD, not "everybody else".

"John 3 vs 16 never in fact states that the Salvation offered by Jesus Christ is from sins but instead from Death, the punishment
or condemnation of Sin." - Sin causes death, and death is what GOD saves His people from ultimately! Yet, GOD says expressly that He saves us from our sin... yet you are saying something different.

"And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” -
Matthew 1:21

"Let GOD be true and every man a liar!"

----------

"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." - Romans 9:14-16

xproducer:

----
... and here comes "kobojunkie" to falsely report that one has stated something that one did not! I will not engage because you often (not always), make no sense!

Where did I mention "everybody else"?

Fact, the Lord JESUS, The CHRIST - died for the elect of GOD, not "everybody else".

"John 3 vs 16 never in fact states that the Salvation offered by Jesus Christ is from sins but instead from Death, the punishment
or condemnation of Sin." - Sin causes death, and death is what GOD saves His people from ultimately! Yet, GOD says expressly that He saves us from our sin... yet you are saying something different.

"And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” -
Matthew 1:21

"Let GOD be true and every man a liar!"

----------
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." - Romans 9:14-16

* Everybody else in this case meaning those who are not Friends of Jesus Christ , and this in reference to Jesus Christ's own statement in John 15 vs 13 - 14

Please try to carefully read what I stated so you can actually respond to what I wrote instead of what you think of what I wrote.

1. You missed the part where Jesus Christ, in John 15 vs 13 - 14 , clearly tells you that He gives His life for His friends - those who do whatever He commands of them -and not for everybody else aka those who are not His friends.

You claim He died for every body, Jesus Christ said He died for His friends. So who is right in this case? Jesus Christ or you?

2. John 3 vs 16 never in fact states that the Salvation offered by Jesus Christ is from sins but instead from Death, the punishment
or condemnation of Sin.

3. As for what is written in Matthew 1 vs 21, We learn there that Jesus Christ came to save His people, the Jews, and not every one, right? And the very same Jesus Christ goes on to declare " I came not to call the righteous, but sinners"- Mark 2 vs 17 - again, not even everyone of the Jews. So? .

Kobojunkie:
* Everybody else in this case meaning those who are not Friends of Jesus Christ , and this in reference to Jesus Christ's own statement in John 15 vs 13 - 14

Please try to carefully read what I stated so you can actually respond to what I wrote instead of what you think of what I wrote.

1. You missed the part where Jesus Christ, in John 15 vs 13 - 14 , clearly tells you that He gives His life for His friends - those who do whatever He commands of them -and not for everybody else aka those who are not His friends.

You claim He died for every body, Jesus Christ said He died for His friends. So who is right in this case? Jesus Christ or you?

2. John 3 vs 16 never in fact states that the Salvation offered by Jesus Christ is from sins but instead from Death, the punishment
or condemnation of Sin.

3. As for what is written in Matthew 1 vs 21, We learn there that Jesus Christ came to save His people, the Jews, and not every one, right? And the very same Jesus Christ goes on to declare that He came to call the sinners, not the righteous, to Himself - again, not everyone.

=========

"But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." - Titus 3:9

"And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient," - 2 Timothy 2:24

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;" - Philippians 2:12

xproducer:

=========

"But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." - Titus 3:9

"And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient," - 2 Timothy 2:24

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;" - Philippians 2:12

Wow so you reject the Truth according to Jesus Christ and run instead? . Ok.

Walahi talahi this is becoming more and more interesting!

Now i know the reason for MightySparrow's sudden disappearance few months ago. He's fed up with all the nonsense and ingredients his church people have been peddling all these while!

This is really hilarious!
How i wish like seeing the old man's face now and how the frustration is written all over him!

DDfruitful:
The ways of God are not the ways of man. His foolishness is wiser than the wisest man ever. Period

And what are these ways of God or are you going to tell us that God keeps His Ways secret from men?

Kobojunkie:
Wow so you reject the Truth according to Jesus Christ and run instead? . Ok.

If you are wise enough, you should check yourself. Especially when different Christians are telling you the same thing, you're just out to be truculent.

Image123:

If you are wise enough, you should check yourself. Especially when different Christians are telling you the same thing, you're just out to be truculent.

Why? Because your belief in God is not based on what He actually said but instead on the view of the majority of men, you expect me to agree with you?

No thank you! Unlike you, I believe what God says over what men think.

MightySparrow:
The whole story of redemption somehow not logical.It generates much questions than answers it intends to proffer.
Why would a third party die for a sin not committed?
Why Jesus? Why didn't God destroy the Devil for once? Theologians in the house over to you.

Lol, i am not a theologian BTW. God's Word and ways with man are not primarily LOGICAL. You've been logical enough with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We've seen where we are. It's more profitable to be spiritual. You can be logical and miss God, you can't be spiritual and miss God.
The good news is that Jesus Christ died for you and i so that we don't have to die or be eternally punished for our sins. The wages of sin is death.
It was Jesus because He was sinless and worthy to be our Substitute. The devil cannot be your substitute, he has his own punishment to bear.

Kobojunkie:
Why? Because your belief in God is not based on what He actually said but instead on the view of the majority of men, you expect me to agree with you?

No thank you! Unlike you, I believe what God says over what men think.

i didn't mention that you should agree with me but to critically check yourself.

Image123:

i didn't mention that you should agree with me but to critically check yourself.

Oh, I critically check myself daily so dont worry about me. Focus instead on yourself and what you claim to believe.

Kobojunkie:
Oh, I critically check myself daily so dont worry about me. Focus instead on yourself and what you claim to believe.

i doubt it, too many grey areas.

Image123:

The good news is that Jesus Christ died for you and i so that we don't have to die or be eternally punished for our sins. The wages of sin is death.
It was Jesus because He was sinless and worthy to be our Substitute. The devil cannot be your substitute, he has his own punishment to bear.

Isn't this one of the very same redemption doctrines which the OP now realizes is nothing but bullsheet?

Kobojunkie:
Isn't this one of the very same redemption doctrines which the OP now realizes is nothing but bullsheet?

Like Demas and Judas, there are always people who count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. Are you washed in the cleansing blood of the Lamb? Are you a new creature?

Image123:

Like Demas and Judas, there are always people who count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. Are you washed in the cleansing blood of the Lamb? Are you a new creature?

1. Jesus Christ Never asked anyone to wash in the blood of any lamb, not even in His blood. The only thing Jesus Christ asked you to do with His blood is to drink it in remembrance of Him. So where does this doctrine that you spew come from?

2. Jesus Christ never asked His disciples to become New Creatures. He asked them instead be born-again - born of water and of Spirit - , this in submission and obedience of His commandments, in order to enter into His Kingdom - John 3 vs 1 - 8. And according to God, in Ezekiel 36 vs 24 -27, He handles the Spirit part.
So are you sure your redemption doctrine fits into that which was taught us by Jesus Christ?