MaxInDHouse:
This is not about my way or GB's way, rather it's about you who can't ccomprehen "why Jesus have to die instead of the Devil"

Of all those coming to the thread it's only a student under the yoke of the GB that has proved to you that God's word made some sense {Act 17:3} others are just here either to insult you or argue with one another!

Well that's the positive result of sharing the same line of thought, no religionsts has come here to give you any reasonable response and that's why your friends that left JW Organization can't find somewhere else to worship comfortably.
So it's either you submit yourself to the GB whom Jesus appointed to feed his sheep or the ATHEISTS and AGNOSTICS are already waiting to welcome you into their gathering!

Note the bolded portion. Firstly, I want to point your attention to the fact that truth is not only defined by what a thing is but also what is not.
Those who left JWs some had served more than four decades before realising that they, as you now, lived in delusion.
It is true that the word of God made sense only that the GB are not making sense out of the word.
I just watched Some your teachings that those God have not condemned Roman 8: 1; 16, even among your own brethren are condemned by GB by not allowing them to partake in your memorial meal. May be you have accepted you are condemned also. Brother wake up. You have left the confusion of Islam to enter the delusion of GB. C.T. Russell himself didn't teach such.

Kobojunkie:
So,this same "experience" you talk of led you to the believing of traditions and doctrines of men, lies, that have nothing to do with Jesus Christ and anything He called us to?
Your experience, rather than lead you closer to God's Truth, led you further away from His Truth as Jesus Christ warned in Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14.

Yet. you think boasting of such an experience puts you in a better place than the OP is in right now with his own "experience"?

Lol, i certainly am not on this thread to fan your truculence. i tell you some of what the experience has done for me. It or rather He changed me. He took my sins away. He made me a brand new man. He washed away the guilt of sin, forgave me and made me into His own image. He made me capable of overreaching love and forgiveness for others, which i was incapable of before. He gave me unspeakable joy ever bubbling for decades. i know who i was before this experience. He put peace in my heart that the world never gave and that it cannot take away. Sometimes, i am secretly afraid that i have such peace sef, the funny irony lol. i do not owe you much but i need to be grateful to my Lord for personal and visible healings of the body. Was it when someone that i lived with's leg grew to same length and size, or when my eyesight were healed after the doctor said there was nothing possible for it to be alright? Abeg, i am enjoying the Truth that has made me free, i don't need truculent freedom that gives nothing. i'll probably be on the edge of boasting if i were to reference academic and financial success. i make bold to repeat to you, the man with a genuine experience with the living God is not at the mercy of silly arguments.
Your case and that of many others on the forum is akin to people who have heard about, read about and watched sex or giving birth but have never truly experienced it. It is NOT the same.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, i just read that the hypocrite is living in delusion. Chai, see the way they are treating majamaja like a common thief, my bowels are moved for him. Bros, take it easy on him. Don't take away his joy this early morning.

Kobojunkie:
I see Satan more as God's quality control manager on the evil side... Like he tests mans every weaknesses to ensure man at least meets God's standard.

The conversation God has with Satan in Job 1 is quite revealing of this.

So, God made Satan to test man, he did his job, man fell, and God punished Satan? This doesn't make spiritual or logical sense.

Forget about me, go and solve your problems with your cohorts.

Your question is a death blow on your Faith:

"Why would God kill Jesus not the Devil?"

Whatever answer or reason i present on this thread is the handiwork of the Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES so if you don't believe in them format whatever i say from your brains and go fetch for answer elsewhere!

MightySparrow:


Note the bolded portion. Firstly, I want to point your attention to the fact that truth is not only defined by what a thing is but also what is not.
Those who left JWs some had served more than four decades before realising that they, as you now, lived in delusion.
It is true that the word of God made sense only that the GB are not making sense out of the word.
I just watched Some your teachings that those God have not condemned Roman 8: 1; 16, even among your own brethren are condemned by GB by not allowing them to partake in your memorial meal. May be you have accepted you are condemned also. Brother NEIGHBOUR wake up. You have left the confusion of Islam to enter the delusion of GB. C.T. Russell himself didn't teach such.

I'm not your brother but your neighbour, let your brothers come and help find answer to your question!

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FreelanceRebel:


Are you asking this for argument or knowledge sake?

For knowledge sake search Google for Why did Jesus sacrifice himself?

Can you answer this please...?

MaxInDHouse:
Forget about me, go and solve your problems with your cohorts.

Your question is a death blow on your Faith:

"Why would God kill Jesus not the Devil?"

Whatever answer or reason i present on this thread is the handiwork of the Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES so if you don't believe in them format whatever i say from your brains and go fetch for answer elsewhere!



I'm not your brother but your neighbour, let your brothers come and help find answer to your question!

Aha, part of my problems is my own blood brother, and honest people like you, honestly living in delusion.
As you are zealous to bring people into delusion, I am zealous in taking people out it.
This zeal makes me search for the truth from all manners of sources not limiting myself to a particular pastor or G. O. living or dead. You are not like that, you are a already ensnared and mentally arrested by a group of people, GB, who comes up every time with conjectures, whims and cunningly arranged writs to deceive people with disabilities or reason to search for truth.
These people sit in the office of ' Right Reverend' they cannot be wrong to those of you following their whims and caprices.
You talk about trinitarians with relish, I have not told you, I am one, but can you really talk about the original discussants in the convocations of the conferences and their contributions? I pointed out to you how C.T. Russell was charged to court and confessed his abysmal ignorance of Greek language in the court of competent jurisdiction. You dodge the question. I pointed to you to defend 1914 from historical records, your answer was,' JWs is beyond faults.
My brother, I bother myself about you.

Jesus and devil are both Christian invention...whatever happens whether good or evil happens because it is the will of God..
God does not need anybody to die before he forgives. All he ever asked for is a sincere repentance.. the Messiah the Jewish prophet is a normal human who is coming to rule in an Era of peace. He will have a human father from the tribe of Judah and a mother who is Jewish. No spirit in the kingly line.

The idea that a spirit impregnated a woman should have been the first red flag but you all had to suspend the use of your Brian just to accept the Roman bull sheet.
You all have to desist from idolatry. It is one of the sin the Creator hates..

HedwigesMaduro:

So, God made Satan to test man, he did his job, man fell, and God punished Satan? This doesn't make spiritual or logical sense.

Did God punish Satan or did God punish the serpent for installing himself as a god over His own creation,
man?.

MightySparrow:

Aha, part of my problems is my own blood brother, and honest people like you, honestly living in delusion.
As you are zealous to bring people into delusion, I am zealous in taking people out it.
This zeal makes me search for the truth from all manners of sources not limiting myself to a particular pastor or G. O. living or dead. You are not like that, you are a already ensnared and mentally arrested by a group of people, GB, who comes up every time with conjectures, whims and cunningly arranged writs to deceive people with disabilities or reason to search for truth.
These people sit in the office of ' Right Reverend' they cannot be wrong to those of you following their whims and caprices.
You talk about trinitarians with relish, I have not told you, I am one, but can you really talk about the original discussants in the convocations of the conferences and their contributions? I pointed out to you how C.T. Russell was charged to court and confessed his abysmal ignorance of Greek language in the court of competent jurisdiction. You dodge the question. I pointed to you to defend 1914 from historical records, your answer was,' JWs is beyond faults.

The highlighted!
You're still on the search while i have found the truth in the midst of God's people.
No wonder you couldn't explain :

"Why would God kill Jesus and not the Devil"

My brother neighbour, I bother myself about you.

I can understand why you'll so much love to have someone who can help you solve your riddle as a brother but i will rather have someone whose line of thought differs from mine as a neighbour (not my brother) Matthew 12:46-49

None of you Christians understand the book you read and love so much. None of you even understand the story of creation. Many things you read in your Bible didn't exactly happened the way you read it. They are in codes and usually have another interpretation. You people are told that the Ancients or the original people of the book will teach you all things (Isaiah 44:7) but you Christians have exalted yourselves as the ppl of the book claiming you know everything when you had no real encounter as the prophets and teachers of old. Neither were you commission by the Spirit like Prophet Ezekiel and others to go forth and teach. Go forth and teach all...are for those who have the spirit of the Sovereign Father and had true encounter with him like the one they wrote as Paul, Ezekiel, Isaiah etc Things you read, you don't understand their secret meanings, names you call the Creator and his son are not the true Hebrew names. You are breaking the law by calling them a vain name that is not their original Hebrew names. Everyday you guys quarrel and fight yourselves for things non of you understand, innerstand and overstand.

MaxInDHouse:


The highlighted!
You're still on the search while i have found the truth in the midst of God's people.
No wonder you couldn't explain :

"Why would God kill Jesus and not the Devil"



I can understand why you'll so much love to have someone who can help you solve your riddle as a brother but i will rather have someone whose line of thought differs from mine as a neighbour (not my brother) Matthew 12:46-49

The truth you have found is the delusion I am talking about. It is made up of human fabrications that are given to redefinitions upon realising that truth is constant and does not have 'new lights'. Only people with open mind seek it and found it. When found, you free yourself from dogmas. I raise two issues, you didn't respond to them: (1) defend 1914, appearance of Jesus to only JWs and the reason for such fictitious date. (2) Are you also condemned not to partake in memorial meal of Jesus Christ? If yes on whose authority, if no, what conditions did Jesus give your organisation to censor who is qualified (among your members) who are qualified.
(2) Is this a man made rule or scriptural. As you have been qouting copiously from the Bible, do so now to prove beyond all reasonable, even unreasonable doubts.
Note: you put up a post to ask anything from the Bible.

MightySparrow:

The truth you have found is the delusion I am talking about. It is made up of human fabrications that are given to redefinitions upon realising that truth is constant and does not have 'new lights'. Only people with open mind seek it and found it. When found, you free yourself from dogmas. I raise two issues, you didn't respond to them: (1) defend 1914, appearance of Jesus to only JWs and the reason for such fictitious date. (2) Are you also condemned not to partake in memorial meal of Jesus Christ? If yes on whose authority, if no, what conditions did Jesus give your organisation to censor who is qualified (among your members) who are qualified.
(2) Is this a man made rule or scriptural. As you have been qouting copiously from the Bible, do so now to prove beyond all reasonable, even unreasonable doubts.
Note: you put up a post to ask anything from the Bible.

Obviously you don't know the quagmire you got yourself into with this post:
"Why would God kill Jesus and not the Devil"

For your information you've condemned the Bible outrightly so what else do you expect me to say regarding the one and only group practicing what the Bible teaches?

If you're questioning the book (Bible) am i the one that will now convince you to trust the book? Who am i?

Sorry my friend, go and join the atheists and agnostics, they're already jubilating over their victory on your faith!

MaxInDHouse:


Obviously you don't know the quagmire you got yourself into with this post:
"Why would God kill Jesus and not the Devil"

For your information you've condemned the Bible outrightly so what else do you expect me to say regarding the one and only group practicing what the Bible teaches?

If you're questioning the book (Bible) am i the one that will now convince you to trust the book? Who am i?

Sorry my friend, go and join the atheists and agnostics, they're already jubilating over their victory on your faith!

I knew it, you will dodge.

Jesus is the most wonderful counselor this world has ever known!

He said:

“Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine, so that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open"

You're condemning God's word so you expect me to start waisting my time, energy and data on you shey?

OK i dodge o! Matthew 7:6

MightySparrow:

I knew it, you will dodge.

ROFLMAO

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is the most wonderful counselor this world has ever known!

He said:

“Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine, so that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open"

You're condemning God's word so you expect me to start waisting my time, energy and data on you shey?

OK i dodge o! Matthew 7:6

There is no pearl you are holding but delusion. You proudly tours sole custodian of Bible knowledge. To now defend the knowledge in the face of superior argument, you are dodging.

GB is deceiving you and your likes. The reason I haven't responded directly to your posts is with experience, your members I had engaged before became dishonest when you point out errors. You have demonstrated that again. The other time, you claim that JWs is beyond errors. Yet those who, within the organisation ventured out of the mental confines are disfellowshipped or called heretic s. I have given you some of their names. Some served each elders or pioneers or both from as long as more than four decades. The laboured with cherished falsehood, wasting their lives peddling mere conjectures. Good luck anyways.
The post I I put was sort of rhetorical than lack of knowledge. In all our discussions, do I sound as ignoramus?

You are being brainwashed Oga.

You have no problem Sir!

MightySparrow:


There is no pearl you are holding but delusion. You proudly tours sole custodian of Bible knowledge. To now defend the knowledge in the face of superior argument, you are dodging.

GB is deceiving you and your likes. The reason I haven't responded directly to your posts is with experience, your members I had engaged before became dishonest when you point out errors. You have demonstrated that again. The other time, you claim that JWs is beyond errors. Yet those who, within the organisation ventured out of the mental confines are disfellowshipped or called heretic s. I have given you some of their names. Some served each elders or pioneers or both from as long as more than four decades. The laboured with cherished falsehood, wasting their lives peddling mere conjectures. Good luck anyways.
The post I I put was sort of rhetorical than lack of knowledge. In all our discussions, do I sound as ignoramus?

You are being brainwashed Oga.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is the most wonderful counselor this world has ever known!

He said:

“Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine, so that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open"

You're condemning God's word so you expect me to start waisting my time, energy and data on you shey?

OK i dodge o! Matthew 7:6

If you follow his counsel you will immediately unfollow errant GB.

You have no problem Sir!

MightySparrow:

If you follow his counsel you will immediately unfollow errant GB.

sonmvayina:


Can you answer this please...?

This doesn't make any sense!
Where was that written in the Bible?

MightySparrow:


There is no pearl you are holding but delusion. You proudly tours sole custodian of Bible knowledge. To now defend the knowledge in the face of superior argument, you are dodging.

GB is deceiving you and your likes. The reason I haven't responded directly to your posts is with experience, your members I had engaged before became dishonest when you point out errors. You have demonstrated that again. The other time, you claim that JWs is beyond errors. Yet those who, within the organisation ventured out of the mental confines are disfellowshipped or called heretic s. I have given you some of their names. Some served each elders or pioneers or both from as long as more than four decades. The laboured with cherished falsehood, wasting their lives peddling mere conjectures. Good luck anyways.
The post I I put was sort of rhetorical than lack of knowledge. In all our discussions, do I sound as ignoramus?

You are being brainwashed Oga.

perhaps there is another name for error in the realm of the organization Max belongs. One can never tell the codename for it.

MaxInDHouse:
Well it took me several months before i could agree with Jehovah's Witnesses that the man who came as Jesus was the same Archangel Michael!

So don't think anything bad happened to him because all what Jesus needed to fulfill the requirements is human body and to live with humans, after his assignment he doesn't need that body anymore.

That's why God told Satan regarding the coming saviour:

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel"

The head is where the Messiah (Christ) will attack the Serpent (Satan) meaning It's Jesus that God will give the power and authority to exterminate Satan.
The heel is where Satan will strike the Messiah, meaning Satan will only make Jesus feel bad due to the way Jews will turn against their long awaited Messiah.

Archangel Michael couldn't rebuke Satan in Jude 9. In the temptation of Jesus, he rebuked him Matt4:10, what happened? Michael the spirit has less power than Michael the human?

hupernikao:


MightySparrow.
Good morning

There is no biblical evidence that God did kill Jesus. No text to the scriptures affirmed such. God isnt a killer nor does he need to drink blood to be pacified.

Such doctrine and theology comes from miss interpretation of scriptures or imagination of readers mind in the name of revelation.


What the Bible taught was that man killed Jesus, the Jews specifically. And this was done to truncate God's plan.

We saw this in Abel/Cain, Joseph and his brothers, Saul/David, Jesus/Pharisees.

Luke 11
50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.

Those are man's action to oppose God's plan yet God's plan always prevail in his wisdom. This is same for Jesus.

Hence, we have seen God works through the ages even in the midst of opposition to his will, man's evil actions or weaknesses, we have seen him work his plan out for man. This is the wisdom of God. He doesnt need to kill to achieve his will but must work through man's will and decisions since his activities are among men. Hence, always observe what is Gods action and what is man's action in reading the bible.

Hence, the story of redemption is not only logical, it is perfectly true.

Read Numbers 31 to know if the bible God is a killer or not.

xproducer:


----------------------

1. "Why would a third party die for a sin not committed?" -

First, because the sins were, have, and are committed and GOD knows and declares "the end from the beginning" (Isaiah 46:9-10), and because when you genuinely love someone, you will do whatever you can for them... including giving your life if necessary. GOD expresses His love for His creation and people, so He did what was necessary to save them/us by standing in as a substitute to receive the punishment required by the law "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 6:23

GOD's love expressed: "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." - John 15:13-14

"...and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood" - Revelation 1:5 (Also John 3:16 and 1 John 4:19).


2. "Why Jesus? Why didn't God destroy the Devil for once?"

GOD has already passed said judgment - fulfillment of His unfailing word will follow!

"Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out." - John 12:31

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" - Matthew 25:41

"The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." - Revelation 20:10

See confusion. Jesus was sacrificed to save us from what or who ? Is his father not all powerful ? Why will he have to kill his son to save us from whatever he's saving us from ? I will never have anything to do with a religion that promotes human sacrifice for any reason. I can't believe i was once a Christian. What was i thinking. I blame my parents for forcefully indoctrinating me into Christianity

1. Jesus was sacrificed to save us from what or who ?

2. Is his father not all powerful ?

3. Why will he have to kill his son to save us from whatever he's saving us from ?

MightySparrow, these are more interesting questions you could have asked. Can you answer these ones for us?

Kobojunkie:
Did God punish Satan or did God punish the serpent for installing himself as a god over His own creation,
man?.

Oh! I forgot the serpent went on his volition, as it was made to talk in the beginning. Sorry to bother you, pls.

HedwigesMaduro:

Oh! I forgot the serpent went on his volition, as it was made to talk in the beginning. Sorry to bother you, pls.

The punishment/condemnation God inflicted was on the Serpent/snake, not Satan - Genesis 3 vs 14 - 15

In both cases Michael acted the same way!

During Moses's burial he left matters in the hands of JEHOVAH, and when he (Michael) is human Jesus he also handed the matter to his father.
Note that after Michael (Jesus) returned to heaven he had to wait for orders from their father before he could send Satan away permanently from heaven! Psalms 110:1

There was no time Michael (Jesus) had any authority over Satan until his earthly assignment when he was given the authority over all creatures both in heaven and on earth! Matthew 28:18

So it was after Michael (Jesus) has successfully completed his earthly assignment that he was GIVEN authority over his other spirit brothers to judge them and even at that he must wait until the order comes from their father JEHOVAH! Hebrews 10:12-13

MightySparrow:

Archangel Michael couldn't rebuke Satan in Jude 9. In the temptation of Jesus, he rebuked him Matt4:10, what happened? Michael the spirit has less power than Michael the human?

Kobojunkie:
The punishment/condemnation God inflicted was on the Serpent/snake, not Satan - Genesis 3 vs 14 - 15

Another lie by the son of the devil, Kobojunkie !

Revelation 12:7-9 (NKJV):
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Still trying to protect your father - the dragon, the serpent, the devil, Satan - once again, Kobojunkie ?

Still hating God and Jesus ?

As always, the Lord rebuke you, Kobojunkie.

And please know, that if I have to, I will continue providing evidence of your evil from time to time, so the unsuspecting who either don't read, or have not yet read their Bibles fully, will stand half a chance of escaping you and your father, the devil. That will hopefully prompt them to review all your posts to see how you deceive... you give a little Truth sometimes to pretend you Love God and Jesus and the Bible, but only so you can push many more lies, which prove you don't.

HedwigesMaduro:


So, God made Satan to test man, he did his job, man fell, and God punished Satan? This doesn't make spiritual or logical sense.

HW, the short story is this:
God eventually wants to re-populate Heaven with human beings who Love Him, and each other.
Why ?
Because when Satan, who was called Lucifer in Heaven (Isaiah 14:12), sinned and convinced one-third of the Angels in Heaven to rebel against God, they were kicked out, and down to the Earth. (Revelation 12:1-12) (See also Ezekiel 28:11-16, the "King of Tyre" is the devil.)
So consider: Who is going to replace all the evil angels who were kicked out of Heaven ?
Even though man was made a "little lower than the Angels" (Psalm 8:5), God will prove to the entire universe, earth, and Heaven, and all beings in it, that even evil angels like Satan cannnot defeat any "lower" human beings who Love God.
Thus God wants to prove to all beings throughout the universe that Love triumphs over evil.
And so Heaven will be restored, the evil angels and all the sinners who chose on the side of the devil destroyed in Hell Fire, and the lower human beings who Love God becoming equal to Angels in Heaven.
Amen.

Any questions, just start reading your Bible.
Do NOT ask Kobojunkie, who is currently a son of the devil.
Prove to yourself - by reading your Bible - that what I told you above is true.

So yes, this life is essentially a Test.
But God did not make Satan... He made a "perfect" Angel named Lucifer.
But as with all His beings, God gave Lucifer free will.
And yes, Angels can sin (Job 4:18, Ezekiel 28:15-16).
Lucifer, previously perfect, did sin, and was then called Satan ("adversary" ) after he was cast down to the Earth.
He was the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

Don't be deceived by Kobojunkie, who, like the devil, tries to pretend he loves God and Jesus and the BIble... but only so he can push many more lies into the stew he tries to feed people.