Udoji2021...

Let us start with your first question

DannyWalker:
Udoji2021...

Let us start with your first question

Ok.

Thanks. I'm listening

It is believe that God created the world and knows what happened before, what is happening presently and what will happen later till the end of time. This brings me question on why he allowed Satan to decieve man, why was he also angry since He knew beforehand of what will happen? Then the consequent punishment, was it really justified?



The question is, does God see it all? Yes and No...

God also has free will... The use of powers is not involuntary, he chooses to, they way we were taught is that God sees everything but they didn't tell you he chooses to see everything...

The ability to see the future is like a mirror for example, or like picking up your phone and choosing to browse the internet.


When God created Adam he gave him freewill and that means he is allowed to be free and live free. You were taught that God knew that man would fail, well God didn't know that man would fail because he made man free and put him in charge of the world.

After God put man in charge on earth, he was constantly going away and coming back according to the Bible.

God had refused to access or peep into man's future days because he wanted to accept what ever outcome his creature brought but he never knew that he would flop too early.

In all logical sense if God had looked into man's future before the fall he would have prevented it but God respected the freewill he had given man. If God was basically ruling man by looking into the future that would be taking away freewill and since he didn't want to take man's freedom he let man live free...


God keeping a tree in that garden and telling man not to touch it was because he didn't want to offer that to man just yet but in time he would have given the tree of knowledge to man... All these plans came to a halt when man suddenly flopped...


God is not playing any game with man like the way people see it... Man is living free and is still living free to this day, every evil happening to us today has nothing to do with God but our actions and reactions

DannyWalker:
It is believe that God created the world and knows what happened before, what is happening presently and what will happen later till the end of time. This brings me question on why he allowed Satan to decieve man, why was he also angry since He knew beforehand of what will happen? Then the consequent punishment, was it really justified?



The question is, does God see it all? Yes and No...

God also has free will... The use of powers is not involuntary, he chooses to, they way we were taught is that God sees everything but they didn't tell you he chooses to see everything...

The ability to see the future is like a mirror for example, or like picking up your phone and choosing to browse the internet.


When God created Adam he gave him freewill and that means he is allowed to be free and live free. You were taught that God knew that man would fail, well God didn't know that man would fail because he made man free and put him in charge of the world.

After God put man in charge on earth, he was constantly going away and coming back according to the Bible.

God had refused to access or peep into man's future days because he wanted to accept what ever outcome his creature brought but he never knew that he would flop too early.

In all logical sense if God had looked into man's future before the fall he would have prevented it but God respected the freewill he had given man. If God was basically ruling man by looking into the future that would be taking away freewill and since he didn't want to take man's freedom he let man live free...


God keeping a tree in that garden and telling man not to touch it was because he didn't want to offer that to man just yet but in time he would have given the tree of knowledge to man... All these plans came to a halt when man suddenly flopped...


God is not playing any game with man like the way people see it... Man is living free and is still living free to this day, every evil happening to us today has nothing to do with God but our actions and reactions

Understood. But can you be backing this with scriptures? Or am asking too much

The most confusing part to me now is life after death. I personally believe that there is heaven and hell right from my childhood days until one guy (Jehovah witness) told me that there is nothing like hell, he went on that even heaven is for a specific number of choose people and not for everyone, above all, he said that when one dies, your own is finished and you are not gonna go anywhere. Simply put, your body and spirit will die.


What I would like to tell you about this is that, the church from the old days painted a fire picture of hell in your head so you can pay tithes and offering, hell is a large place with various sections and hell is not actually covered in flames...



On a coming day, some people from hell will have their works tested by fire and if their good works are not consumed (based on how genuine) they will enter the kingdom of God... But the church taught you that if a man does the work of God all his life and in the last minute he sins he will burn in hell forever, that's a bloody lie...


And you were taught that if a man who has spent all his life killing people suddenly repents when he is about to die he will make heaven, well that is a lie too, you know why? Because repentance is the most difficult point for a man to reach and repentance comes to any man by only divine Grace and grace is similar to luck but divine grace is extra ordinary

udoji2021:


Understood. But can you be backing this with scriptures? Or am asking too much

alright, just tell me where you want scripture backing... But I must warn, not all answers lie in the Bible and the Bible can be interpreted in multiple falseWays...


There is more than just 66 books, there is more than books

Udoji2021.

DannyWalker:
Udoji2021.

I will ask my questions when you are through. Just go on, am with you

This statement

God keeping a tree in that garden and telling man not to touch it was because he didn't want to offer that to man just yet but in time he would have given the tree of knowledge to man... All these plans came to a halt when man suddenly flopped...

Can you back this with scriptures were God planned to give them later? And if I may ask, why put the tree in the garden in the first place.

DannyWalker:

What I would like to tell you about this is that, the church from the old days painted a fire picture of hell in your head so you can pay tithes and offering, hell is a large place with various sections and hell is not actually covered in flames...

On a coming day, some people from hell will have their works tested by fire and if their good works are not consumed (based on how genuine) they will enter the kingdom of God... But the church taught you that if a man does the work of God all his life and in the last minute he sins he will burn in hell forever, that's a bloody lie...

And you were taught that if a man who has spent all his life killing people suddenly repents when he is about to die he will make heaven, well that is a lie too, you know why? Because repentance is the most difficult point for a man to reach and repentance comes to any man by only divine Grace and grace is similar to luck but divine grace is extra ordinary

1. Where in scripture do you get your claim hell is a large place with various sections and hell is not actually covered in flames... from ?

2. Where in scripture do you find this assertion
On a coming day, some people from hell will have their works tested by fire and if their good works are not consumed (based on how genuine) they will enter the kingdom of God... from ?

3. Where in scripture did Jesus Christ, the one whose grace you claim, provide us for affirmation of your claim that Because repentance is the most difficult point for a man to reach and repentance comes to any man by only divine Grace and grace is similar to luck but divine grace is extra ordinary ?

DannyWalker:
It is believe that God created the world and knows what happened before, what is happening presently and what will happen later till the end of time. This brings me question on why he allowed Satan to decieve man, why was he also angry since He knew beforehand of what will happen? Then the consequent punishment, was it really justified?



The question is, does God see it all? Yes and No...

God also has free will... The use of powers is not involuntary, he chooses to, they way we were taught is that God sees everything but they didn't tell you he chooses to see everything...

The ability to see the future is like a mirror for example, or like picking up your phone and choosing to browse the internet.


When God created Adam he gave him freewill and that means he is allowed to be free and live free. You were taught that God knew that man would fail, well God didn't know that man would fail because he made man free and put him in charge of the world.

After God put man in charge on earth, he was constantly going away and coming back according to the Bible.

God had refused to access or peep into man's future days because he wanted to accept what ever outcome his creature brought but he never knew that he would flop too early.

In all logical sense if God had looked into man's future before the fall he would have prevented it but God respected the freewill he had given man. If God was basically ruling man by looking into the future that would be taking away freewill and since he didn't want to take man's freedom he let man live free...


God keeping a tree in that garden and telling man not to touch it was because he didn't want to offer that to man just yet but in time he would have given the tree of knowledge to man... All these plans came to a halt when man suddenly flopped...


God is not playing any game with man like the way people see it... Man is living free and is still living free to this day, every evil happening to us today has nothing to do with God but our actions and reactions

Technically, this is wrong. God's omniscience is not a magical power to be used as a magical tool every now and then.

By definition, God is transcends the cosmos, this would mean God is beyond space and time. To be beyond space and time would mean from his ventage point, everything, past, present and future are happening at the same time, hence, the ability to know all potentiality: omniscience.

johnydon22:


Technically, this is wrong. God's omniscience is not a magical power to be used as a magical tool every now and then.

By definition, God is transcends the cosmos, this would mean God is beyond space and time. To be beyond space and time would mean from his ventage point, everything, past, present and future are happening at the same time, hence, the ability to know all potentiality: omniscience.

I have known you to be an atheist but It's funny how atheists know God so well yet don't believe in his existence...

DannyWalker:
The most confusing part to me now is life after death. I personally believe that there is heaven and hell right from my childhood days until one guy (Jehovah witness) told me that there is nothing like hell, he went on that even heaven is for a specific number of choose people and not for everyone, above all, he said that when one dies, your own is finished and you are not gonna go anywhere. Simply put, your body and spirit will die.


What I would like to tell you about this is that, the church from the old days painted a fire picture of hell in your head so you can pay tithes and offering, hell is a large place with various sections and hell is not actually covered in flames...



On a coming day, some people from hell will have their works tested by fire and if their good works are not consumed (based on how genuine) they will enter the kingdom of God... But the church taught you that if a man does the work of God all his life and in the last minute he sins he will burn in hell forever, that's a bloody lie...


And you were taught that if a man who has spent all his life killing people suddenly repents when he is about to die he will make heaven, well that is a lie too, you know why? Because repentance is the most difficult point for a man to reach and repentance comes to any man by only divine Grace and grace is similar to luck but divine grace is extra ordinary

I am guessing you know more about hell than Jesus and Apostle John the beloved (alleged writer of revelation) since both aludes to an enternal nature of hell.

Jesus says in Matthew 25:41: ". . . Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, . . ."

Rev. 14:11: "The smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest, day or night."

I am guessing you are trying a more subtle picture of Christianity to help someone who is apparently dangling the edge of his faith. Why not be very honest with him

DannyWalker:
I have known you to be an atheist but It's funny how atheists know God so well yet don't believe in his existence...

I am an atheist still and this comment is of no relevance to mine.

Read 1st corinthians 15...
The Bible told you that you will re incarnate
Lol

johnydon22:


I am guessing you know more about hell than Jesus and Apostle John the beloved (alleged writer of revelation) since both aludes to an enternal nature of hell.

Jesus says in Matthew 25:41: ". . . Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, . . ."

Rev. 14:11: "The smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest, day or night."

I am guessing you are trying a more subtle picture of Christianity to help someone who is apparently dangling the edge of his faith. Why not be very honest with him

There are things in the Bible you don't take literally because they were written in literal expressions but are not literal

johnydon22:


Technically, this is wrong. God's omniscience is not a magical power to be used as a magical tool every now and then.

By definition, God is transcends the cosmos, this would mean God is beyond space and time. To be beyond space and time would mean from his ventage point, everything, past, present and future are happening at the same time, hence, the ability to know all potentiality: omniscience.

You say you are an atheist how then did you come to this definition about God

DannyWalker:
There are things in the Bible you don't take literally because they were written in literal expressions but are not literal

I'm pretty sure one is more likely to be correct by reading those texts literally than the skewed missionary journey you are going with your posts that completely lacks scriptural backing even metaphorically.

udoji2021:


I will ask my questions when you are through. Just go on, am with you

I will be back

DannyWalker:
You say you are an atheist how then did you come to this definition about God

By listening to Christians. Christians define the Christian God. We just spell out the implications of these definitions.

Atheists did not define God as omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenovalent, and omnitemporal, Christians did.

Atheists did not claim God created the cosmos - Christians did.

And the implication of creating the cosmos is that God transcends the cosmos.

This isn't difficult to figure out.

johnydon22:


I'm pretty sure one is more likely to be correct by reading those texts literally than the skewed missionary journey you are going with your posts that completely lacks scriptural backing even metaphorically.

The mind of every Christian has been hammered into one direction The Bible, and that includes you an atheist as well, there is more to learn beyond the Bible, up there I mentioned that not everything I will say can be gotten from the Bible because the Bible is a basic directional guide and not there to solve all the world mysteries...

DannyWalker:
The mind of every Christian has been hammered into one direction The Bible, and that includes you an atheist as well, there is more to learn beyond the Bible, up there I mentioned that not everything I will say can be gotten from the Bible because the Bible is a basic directional guide and not there to solve all the world mysteries...

Lol. Again, interpretations closer to a text is more likely to be correct than ones that completely ignores the text.

johnydon22:


By listening to Christians. Christians define the Christian God. We just spell out the implications of these definitions.

Atheists did not define God as omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenovalent, and omnitemporal, Christians did.

Atheists did not claim God created the cosmos - Christians did.

And the implication of creating the cosmos is that God transcends the cosmos.

This isn't difficult to figure out.

Coming from an atheist you sound like one who knows God...


So basically what atheist do is listen to Christians then turn their words against them right?

johnydon22:


Lol. Again, interpretations closer to a text is more likely to be correct than ones that completely ignores the text.

You are wrong....


Interpretations closer to a text is more likely to be ACCEPTED than ones that completely ignores the text

DannyWalker:
Coming from an atheist you sound like one who knows God...

I would not be as arrogant enough as to claim that, it is the Christian prerogative anyway; claiming to know that which by definition cannot even be shown to be.

So basically what atheist do is listen to Christians then turn their words against them right?

No. We listen to Christians then let them understand the implications of their words. If you think letting you understand the implications of your statement 'turns your words against you' then perhaps you should think about these words more carefully before saying them.

DannyWalker:
You are wrong....


Interpretations closer to a text is more likely to be ACCEPTED than ones that completely ignores the text

It is more likely to be accepted because it is more likely to be true than a long shot.

Text: Obi is a boy

First interpretation: Obi is a male human in his teenage or adolescent or childhood stage.

Your interpretation: There is no Obi at all.

Of course people would accept the first interpretation as it is closer to the text is seeks to break down and aludes to its meaning. Yours ignores the text completely hence more likely to get it wrong.

johnydon22:
I would not be as arrogant enough as to claim that, it is the Christian prerogative anyway. Claiming to know that which by definition cannot even be shown to be.

No. We listen to Christians then let them understand the implications of their words. If you think letting you understand the implications of your statement 'turns your words against you' then perhaps you should think about these words more carefully before saying them.

You atheists are funny though...


Wait Do you just take the reality of evil happening around you conclude that God doesn't exist or you have actually made efforts to reach out and found out nothing exists out there beyond physical...

johnydon22:


It is more likely to be accepted because it is more likely to be true than a long shot.

Text: Obi is a boy

First interpretation: Obi is a male human in his teenage or adolescent or childhood stage.

Your interpretation: There is no Obi at all.

Of course people would accept the first interpretation as it is closer to the text is seeks to break down and aludes to its meaning. Yours ignores the text completely hence more likely to get it wrong.

In other words you are accepting that the Bible is more likely to be true right?

johnydon22:


Technically, this is wrong. God's omniscience is not a magical power to be used as a magical tool every now and then.

By definition, God is transcends the cosmos, this would mean God is beyond space and time. To be beyond space and time would mean from his vantage point, everything, past, present and future are happening at the same time, hence, the ability to know all potentiality: omniscience.

So beyond space and time that God exists only in human minds. Hence, God is believed, not known.

Kind of reminds me of 007, that does. Shaken, nor stirred.

Transcends the cosmos my ass!

In the first God built a house of mud. The second is, God moved into the mud house. The third is the vantage point.

Transcend!

DannyWalker:
In other words you are accepting that the Bible is more likely to be true right?

#sigh

DannyWalker:
You atheists are funny though...


Wait Do you just take the reality of evil happening around you conclude that God doesn't exist or you have actually made efforts to reach out and found out nothing exists out there beyond physical...

I am open to be shown? Would you want to take up the good work and show me?

johnydon22:


I am open to be shown? Would you want to take up the good work and show me?

come oh Johnny, I really doubt that... I have known you on nairaland for a while now, you will definitely have a defense or fault over anything that mentions God in it...




But I want to know, is it that you don't believe in God or you just believe there is nothing beyond the physical, no supernatural or metaphysical reality?