Kobojunkie:
Clubs aren't the things of the world Jesus Christ warned you against.... oh no. Your clubs are social clubs just like your churches are only there you don't get fed the doctrines and traditions of men in the name of God.

That which is stored up in your heart is what Jesus Christ warned you about. That is what He told you causes you to sin... the lies you imbibe through the doctrines and traditions of men which deceive you away from the Truth of God is the world He world you to stay away from.

But there, you smoke and take junkies? Isn't it?

Just renew your mind.

CharisEleos:

But there, you smoke and take junkies? Isn't it?
Just renew your mind.

Huh? I am afraid you are one of those who have been thoroughly lied to by your Mogs. I mean where else would one get the idea of linking clubs to smoking and getting high.

Dont folks smoke and get high in their homes? Not that there is anything wrong with smoking even.

You need to step out of your cage and go visit a club or two to understand that God has not called you to live in a prison for His sake. Even Jesus Christ, when He was down here hung around, drinking and eating with sinners.

Kobojunkie:
Huh? I am afraid you are one of those who have been thoroughly lied to by your Mogs. I mean where else would one get the idea of linking clubs to smoking and getting high.

Dont folks smoke and get high in their homes? Not that there is anything wrong with smoking even.

You need to step out of your cage and go visit a club or two to understand that God has not called you to live in a prison for His sake. Even Jesus Christ, when He was down here hung around, drinking and eating with sinners.

I see..

Ndo.

CharisEleos:

I see..
Ndo.

Free yourself from the lies of your Mogs and you will see that it was never God who put the chains on you but you who did it through the imbibing of the lies told you by men you call your Mogs.

Kobojunkie:
Free yourself from the lies of your Mogs and you will see that it was never God who put the chains on you but you who did it through the imbibing of the lies told you by men you call your Mogs.

By going to clubs?

May God deliver you.

CharisEleos:
By going to clubs?
May God deliver you.

Jesus Christ never gave you comandments/rules on where you can go or not go, restricting your movement, in His name. So why restrict yourself thinking you honor Him by doing so?

I am already freed from mental slavery, now you do you.

CharisEleos:

May God deliver you.

You have not finished schooling me on your rapture doctrine , or have you bailed on this?

I am very much interested in this topic still .

Kobojunkie:
You have not finished schooling me on your rapture doctrine , or have you bailed on this?

I am very much interested in this topic still .

Yes.. where did we stop?

Kobojunkie:
You have not finished schooling me on your rapture doctrine , or have you bailed on this?

I am very much interested in this topic still .

After the Millennia reign this is what will happen next.

When the thousand years are ended, Satan will be let loose from his prison, and he will come out to seduce the nations in the four quarters of the earth. He will muster them for war, the hosts of Gog and Magog, countless as the sands of the sea. They marched up over the breadth of the land and laid siege to the camp of God's people and the city He loves. But fire came down on them from heaven and consumed them. Their seducer, the Devil, was flung into the lake of fire and sulfur ..

CharisEleos:

Yes.. where did we stop?

We are still working on why the scripture you referenced from Revelations does not seem to match up with your Rapture theory in many ways.

Then I saw some thrones and people sitting on them. These were the ones who had been given the power to judge.
And I saw the souls of those who had been killed because they were faithful to the truth of Jesus and the message from God. They did not worship the beast or its idol. They did not receive the mark of the beast on their foreheads or on their hands.

They came back to life and ruled with Christ for 1000 years. (The rest of the dead did not live again until the 1000 years were ended.)This is the first resurrection.

6 Great blessings belong to those who share in this first resurrection. They are God’s holy people. The second death has no power over them. They will be priests for God and for Christ. They will rule with him for 1000 years. - Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6

The above passages states that;

1. There are also given the power to judge and it is those who wil sit on thrones

2. The first set of souls/people to be raised from the dead are souls who resisted the beast and the antichrist

3. Those first raised will reign with Christ for 1000 years

CharisEleos:

After the Millennia reign this is what will happen next.

When the thousand years are ended, Satan will be let loose from his prison, and he will come out to seduce the nations in the four quarters of the earth. He will muster them for war, the hosts of Gog and Magog, countless as the sands of the sea. They marched up over the breadth of the land and laid siege to the camp of God's people and the city He loves. But fire came down on them from heaven and consumed them. Their seducer, the Devil, was flung into the lake of fire and sulfur ..

Where is the scripture for this please?

Can we also clear up what happens before the 1000 years even begins so as not to further muddle this up?

Kobojunkie:
Where is the scripture for this please?

Can we also clear up what happens before the 1000 years even begins so as not to further muddle this up?

Ok.

CharisEleos:

Ok.

So, for this discussion, what is rapture?
What happens during rapture?

Revelation 20:4-6
4 Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus* and for the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. .

now, those who are going to reign with him are the saints dead and living ( who were taken up in rapture ) and those who got killed durimg the great tribulation for not accepting the mark.

CharisEleos:
Revelation 20:4-6
4 Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus* and for the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. .

now, those who are going to reign with him are the saints dead and living ( who were taken up in rapture ) and those who got killed durimg the great tribulation for not accepting the mark.

According to that record, none of them will be living since they were beheaded.

So you do agree that these are those who are first resurrected and raptured then?

Kobojunkie:
According to that record, none of them will be living since they were beheaded.

So you do agree that these are those who are first resurrected and raptured then?

Nope they are not among the raptured.

The living i talked about are those who will not see death till Jesus comes at rapture and the dead who have died long before us.
This set above will be the ones to feast with Christ on the skies while the ones the at will later be beheaded and killed for Chris's sakes will be experiencing the great tribulation.

CharisEleos:

Nope they are not among the raptured.

The living i talked about are those who will not see death till Jesus comes at rapture and the dead who have died long before us.

I believe you are confusing things here...

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.- Matthew 16 vs 28

Jesus Christ made that statement concerning those who were standing with Him at that place in that moment in time, and what He said did come to pass as we know of some of His apostles who did SEE .I.e. they had visions of the Son of man coming in His Kingdom, before they died.

CharisEleos:

Nope they are not among the raptured.

The living i talked about are those who will not see death till Jesus comes at rapture and the dead who have died long before us.
This set above will be the ones to feast with Christ on the skies while the ones the at will later be beheaded and killed for Chris's sakes will be experiencing the great tribulation.

if those who died during the tribulation(the beheaded) are not among those "raptured" then who are those raptured?

When will they be raptured?

Kobojunkie:
if those who died during the tribulation(the beheaded) are not among those "raptured" then who are those raptured?

When will they be raptured?

I've already answered that like ten times now. Kobojunkie, go back and read the last two comments. You'll see it there.

Kobojunkie:
I believe you are confusing things here...
Jesus Christ made that statement concerning those who were standing with Him at that place in that moment in time, and what He said did come to pass as we know of some of His apostles who did SEE .I.e. they had visions of the Son of man coming in His Kingdom, before they died.

I wasn't referring to this bible passage. I'm just saying those who will be alive when he comes.

CharisEleos:

I've already answered that like ten times now. Kobojunkie, go back and read the last two comments. You'll see it there.

Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6 was the response you gave me when I asked you of the rapture and when it will happen.

On close examination , it is revealed that those who are raised before the 1000 years rule, according to the passage provided by you, are those who died during the tribulation. In fact, according to Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6, the first resurrection of the dead does not happen until after the tribulation, and if we follow your timeline, you are saying those who are dead, even before the tribulation, will not partake in the marriage feast at all.

And when I pointed this out to you, you backtracked on your initial claim suggesting now that these were not among the raptured, instead proclaiming that only the living will be raptured.

So is am again rightly asking who are or were raptured and when will they be raptured. Also, please provide bible reference of this so we can examine it too.

CharisEleos:

I wasn't referring to this bible passage. I'm just saying those who will be alive when he comes.

Alive? OK, where in the Bible are you told that those alive will be raptured and even will they be raptured?

CharisEleos:

I already lined out how the events will occur.

Rapture/ marriage feast
Great tribulation
Amagheddon to end tribulation
Millennial reign.

Recall, your own Rapture timeline too.

You

Kobojunkie:
Alive? OK, where in the Bible are you told that those alive will be raptured and even will they be raptured?

Recall, your own Rapture timeline too.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Kobojunkie:
Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6 was the response you gave me when I asked you of the rapture and when it will happen.

On close examination , it is revealed that those who are raised before the 1000 years rule, according to the passage provided by you, are those who died during the tribulation. In fact, according to Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6, the first resurrection of the dead does not happen until after the tribulation, and if we follow your timeline, you are saying those who are dead, even before the tribulation, will not partake in the marriage feast at all.

And when I pointed this out to you, you backtracked on your initial claim suggesting now that these were not among the raptured, instead proclaiming that only the living will be raptured.

So is am again rightly asking who are or were raptured and when will they be raptured. Also, please provide bible reference of this so we can examine it too.

I never said those who were dead pretribulation will not reign. Rather I've said it a zillion times that those who died before the tribulation are the ones that will be raptured.

Chai!

CharisEleos:
You
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The part above seems to corroborate the part where the Dead/beheaded in Christ are raised from the dead during the first resurrection which, according to Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6, happens after, and not before the tribulation( the beast and its image and Mark's period), is that not correct?

CharisEleos:

I never said those who were dead pretribulation will not reign. Rather I've said it a zillion times that those who died before the tribulation are the ones that will be raptured.

Chai!

But Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6, says those who were dead after the tribulation - the post-tribulation dead - will be the first to be raised from the dead. So how can there be a rapture(raising ) of those who died before the tribulation - the pretribulation dead - if the raising of post-tribulation dead is meant to be the first raising of the dead?

Kobojunkie:
But Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6, says those who were dead after the tribulation - the post-tribulation dead - will be the first to be raised from the dead. So how can there be a rapture(raising ) of those who died before the tribulation - the pretribulation dead - if the raising of post-tribulation dead is meant to be the first raising of the dead?

You are the one calling the second rising rapture. That's not rapture. They'll simply rise to reign with Christ.

The first one which I've sent you on 1 Thessalonians is the actual rapture.

Please read.

Kobojunkie:
The part above seems to corroborate the part where the Dead/beheaded in Christ are raised from the dead during the first resurrection which, according to Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6, happens after, and not before the tribulation( the beast and its image and Mark's period), is that not correct?

Nope.
Take time to read both accounts.

CharisEleos:
You are the one calling the second rising rapture. That's not rapture. They'll simply rise to reign with Christ.

The first one which I've sent you on 1 Thessalonians is the actual rapture.
Please read.

Please try to pay attention so you stop missing the message contained in the very same passage I have posted over 6 times now.

According to the passage in Revelation, not me, the first rising happens after the Post-Tribulation, not before the Tribulation.

Then I saw some thrones and people sitting on them. These were the ones who had been given the power to judge.
And I saw the souls of those who had been killed because they were faithful to the truth of Jesus and the message from God. They did not worship the beast or its idol. They did not receive the mark of the beast on their foreheads or on their hands.
They came back to life and ruled with Christ for 1000 years. (The rest of the dead did not live again until the 1000 years were ended.)This is the first resurrection.
6 Great blessings belong to those who share in this first resurrection. They are God’s holy people. The second death has no power over them. They will be priests for God and for Christ. They will rule with him for 1000 years. - Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6

2. Then 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 14 - 17 also states that the dead will be raised first, this before the living are supposedly taken to Join afterwards.

14 We believe that Jesus died, but we also believe that he rose again. So we believe that God will raise to life through Jesus any who have died and bring them together with him when he comes.

15 What we tell you now is the Lord’s own message. Those of us who are still living when the Lord comes again will join him, but not before those who have already died.
16 The Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. And the people who have died and were in Christ will rise first.
17 After that we who are still alive at that time will be gathered up with those who have died. We will be taken up in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air. And we will be with the Lord forever. - 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 14 - 17

So, clearly, even the passage from 1 Thessalonians insists that the raising of the dead is first.

Now, are the two passages pointing to the same FIRST raising of the dead, or are they not pointing to the same FIRST raising of the dead?

CharisEleos:

Nope.
Take time to read both accounts.

I have read both accounts and I still don't see how you suggest that one raising is different from the other raising.

Kobojunkie:
Please try to pay attention so you stop missing the message contained in the very same passage I have posted over 6 times now.

According to the passage in Revelation, not me, the first rising happens after the Post-Tribulation, not before the Tribulation.
2. Then 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 14 - 17 also states that the dead will be raised first, this before the living are supposedly taken to Join afterwards.
So, clearly, even the passage from 1 Thessalonians insists that the raising of the dead is first.

Now, are the two passages pointing to the same FIRST raising of the dead, or are they not pointing to the same FIRST raising of the dead?

Not the same oooooo... hey!
You even read it and you're still saying they are the same.

Just take it as you understand. The important thing now is, you believe in rapture.

Glory be to God!

CharisEleos:

Not the same oooooo... hey!
You even read it and you're still saying they are the same.

Just take it as you understand.rhe important thing now is that you believe in rapture.

Glory be to God!

Lol.. Oh, I don't believe in the rapture doctrine because it does not align at all with any of the teachings of Jesus Christ on what has already happened and what is to come. And this discussion has shown that there is indeed a disconnect between what Jesus Christ said and what you believe.

I understand what is written of in Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6 and 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 14-18, both of which seem to speak of the same events. What I don't understand is why you insist they are separate events , suggesting that the record in Revelation 20 vs 4 - 6 is in error and that 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 14 - 18, speaks instead of a different coming of Jesus Christ, than the one spoken of in Revelations.

If I told you that following what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24, the "tribulation" you are afraid of has already taken place, and those who were beheaded are already in their graves waiting for Jesus Christ
to return, what would you think?

If I told you, that according to Jesus Christ, the first to be resurrected, who will reign for 1000 years, are those of the lost sheep of israel(no gentiles) God's priests in Jesus Christ, what would you think then?