basilico:


What BS are you pushing? Joe Biden stopped Keystone pipeline Day one. He returned to Paris climate change agreement. He stopped Remain in Mexico policy.
He reversed Iran JPCOA deal.
He could not reverse the Afghan deal.
Are you nuts?

As if he reversed the MAGA crowd were going to take it, the consensus was let America withdraw from Afghanistan, Conservatives wanted troops withdrawn and they have it

basilico:


What BS are you pushing? Joe Biden stopped Keystone pipeline Day one. He returned to Paris climate change agreement. He stopped Remain in Mexico policy.
He reversed Iran JPCOA deal.
He could not reverse the Afghan deal.
Are you nuts?


I hope you have not replied.We blame the source for how the war started?
Yea I know. Was started by conservative president Bush . We can blame senior Bush for marrying mom Bush Jnr and for them not remaining childless. We can go back further and blame Homo Habilis evolving to Homo Erectus.

They are nuts.

wirinet:

That's a business between Qatar and Saudi Arabia deal and not a peace deal. Besides there were no hostilities or conflict between Qatar and Saudi.

Forget these guys and their crap, Trump want all the way to Sudan and Morocco to say he is making middle east peace, con artist extraordinary

sanpipita:


As if he reversed the MAGA crowd were going to take it, the consensus was let America withdraw from Afghanistan, Conservatives wanted troops withdrawn and they have it

Since when do you people care what maga crowd thinks?

benalvino3:


Since when do you people care what maga crowd thinks?

Did they want troops withdrawn or not, I don't like this anywhere belle face criticism, to his credit people like Mitch warned about this earlier, people who wanted troops withdrawn can't suddenly change tone and expected to be taken serious, sometimes stand for something.

sanpipita:


Did they want troops withdrawn or not, I don't like this anywhere belle face criticism, to his credit people like Mitch warned about this earlier, people who wanted troops withdrawn can't suddenly change tone and expected to be taken serious, sometimes stand for something.

Why did Joe Biden not reverse that deal if it was not good?

sanpipita:


Did they want troops withdrawn or not, I don't like this anywhere belle face criticism, to his credit people like Mitch warned about this earlier, people who wanted troops withdrawn can't suddenly change tone and expected to be taken serious, sometimes stand for something.

Trump had a plan, even Trump criticize Biden's pattern.

Trump had made a deal with Taliban and turn around and bomb them before when they mess up.

Trump does not mess around that's for sure. If it was him Taliban won't be strolling around like they are doing. Obama did the same thing in Iraq and ISIS rise and he did nothing to stop their conquest till they took huge chunk of Iraq and Syria. Biden is doing exactly the same thing and as we speak the Taliban are discussing change of power with the afghan government

basilico:


This what Talibans dont want because its against Sharia. A 1990 photo.
One among many things.

Now show me what the people want please and not "what taliban don't want".

benalvino3:


Trump had a plan, even Trump criticize Biden's pattern.

Trump had made a deal with Taliban and turn around and bomb them before when they mess up.

Trump does not mess around that's for sure. If it was him Taliban won't be strolling around like they are doing. Obama did the same thing in Iraq and ISIS rise and he did nothing to stop their conquest till they took huge chunk of Iraq and Syria. Biden is doing exactly the same thing and as we speak the Taliban are discussing change of power with the afghan government

They knew Trump does not bluff like a sissy. He dropped a MOAB on the miltants in afghan.First time the most powerful non nuclear bomb was ever used.

sanpipita:
There's also some local interest who want Taliban to take over so they can share power and dominate minorities, ..........

Except that these are dominating majorities, you might find, with a terrorist interpretation of Sharia.

benalvino3:


Trump had a plan, even Trump criticize Biden's pattern.

Trump had made a deal with Taliban and turn around and bomb them before when they mess up.

Trump does not mess around that's for sure. If it was him Taliban won't be strolling around like they are doing. Obama did the same thing in Iraq and ISIS rise and he did nothing to stop their conquest till they took huge chunk of Iraq and Syria. Biden is doing exactly the same thing and as we speak the Taliban are discussing change of power with the afghan government

What plan would Trump follow than what was in the deal? he was already withdrawing soldiers and even set deadline for May 1st

benalvino3:


Trump had a plan, even Trump criticize Biden's pattern.

Trump had made a deal with Taliban and turn around and bomb them before when they mess up.

Trump does not mess around that's for sure. If it was him Taliban won't be strolling around like they are doing. Obama did the same thing in Iraq and ISIS rise and he did nothing to stop their conquest till they took huge chunk of Iraq and Syria. Biden is doing exactly the same thing and as we speak the Taliban are discussing change of power with the afghan government

Even if trump plan had been followed in Afghanistan the same result we are seeing would have happened.

Ultimately trump would have withdrawn from Afghanistan.

The problem is that most Afghans don't want to die. They want to survive. That influences thinking even in their army. At the end of the day, the Taliban take over anyway because they are the ones who want to die for their beliefs.

Also the Taliban knew that once trump announced that the US was leaving all they had do was patiently wait. And wait they did.

basilico:


Tell that to buda before she makes a fool of herself
Already there is a some woman governor in some district. As soon as Taliban takes over she will be under 'house arrest' And a man will take over

And that is what the woman wants, ba? The woman is standing there yelling "taliba taliba, take over. My woman opinion must not matter"?

Let me help you. You deserve it for genderising buda!

wirinet:


I vehemently disagree with you. The Afghan debacle is one of the greatest failures in US foreign policy. Just like in Iraq, the US went into Afghanistan without any clear objective or agenda outside getting Osama bin Laden for the 911 attack. No long time strategy.

The US should have lead her allies for have a longer presence in Afghanistan - maybe 50 years or beyond, until the present generation of die hard Islamic fundamentalists die out. The British were in Nigeria and Ghana for close to 100 years. You cannot significantly change the mindset of a people in 20 years.

In 20 years, the $2 trillion and 2,500 dead would pale into insignificance when compared with the havoc an Islamic fundamentalist Taliban can wreck on US and it's allies, along with their interests.

On geo-political strategic levels the Afghanistan withdrawal was a disaster. Afghanistan is situated mid way between Russia, China and Iran. A strong US presence there would have been a very stategic position. Now I am sure China would rush in and create an alliance with the Taliban. The incoming Taliban government would need money to run its government and China is always willing to loan rogue governments money - with conditions attached. Imagine the anti west alliance of China, Russia, Iran and now Afghanistan. It would be more difficult to rein in Iran.

Throughout history, countries invade other countries for exploitation or for strategic reason most times at huge financial and human costs. The did not exploit its advantageous positions in all its military adventures. They are too impatient and usually give up after a couple of decades. We all now know that the best way to defeat the US military is just hold out for 1 or 2 decades and they will run off with their tails between their legs.

Short term thinking superpowers of the world, lol!

Unfortunately, it wasn't even their duty nor their role. They went in on lies for revenge and a lynching.

basilico:


Call me names. The western allies went there to civilize the Afghans who have a different perspective.Trying to be nice and play by the rules of war will never work. The Chinese don't play by the rules set by western armies. Western armies have lawyers and media cameras in the front lines to verify no war crimes are being breached.
If the Chinese invade, the Talibans would be disappeared never to be heard of again.

Be nice to people who fight attrition wars , with the ICC being on watch for war crimes And you will waste human and monetary resources trying to pacify such antagonists.

Let China invade and close our eyes, Reagan was fighting communists , he armed the Taliban mujahedeen and they sent Russkies back in body bags by yhe thousands till the Russians went broke. He gave them Stinger missiles that Rambo the pilot knew how to avoid

China should be encouraged to invade Afghanistan and exploit all the mineral sources. They will start exporting the rare minerals in less than a year.Afghan is mineral rich.

As I said apart from your deitification of Trump and ready to defend any word he utters as divine truth, we agree on most other issues. I have hated Trump since the early 90s. While at school a fellow room mate loved Trump so much he gave me his book "The Art of The Deal" after reading it dislike the personality he displayed in the book. I saw him as someone who believes in using dishonest mean to achieve his goals. I followed him since then. So i am not like most cult worshippers who only started following Trump after he declared his intention to run for presidency.

If it was China that invaded Afghanistan, I am sure by now most Afghans would be speaking Mandarin, and in about 50 years, most wpuld have converted to atheism. That was also how ancient Rome invaded and conquered other people. They not only conquered the land, they also conquered the mind - language, culture and religion. You automatically became a Roman. Britain also employed the same principle to expand their empire. Once they conquer you, you become English pledging allegiance to the Queen/King.

The US should have learnt how to completely conquer people - land, mind and soul before embarking on a military invasion.

wirinet:


As I said apart from your deitification of Trump and ready to defend any word he utters as divine truth, we agree on most other issues. I have hated Trump since the early 90s. While at school a fellow room mate loved Trump so much he gave me his book "The Art of The Deal" after reading it dislike the personality he displayed in the book. I saw him as someone who believes in using dishonest mean to achieve his goals. I followed him since then. So i am not like most cult worshippers who only started following Trump after he declared his intention to run for presidency.

If it was China that invaded Afghanistan, I am sure by now most Afghans would be speaking Mandarin, and in about 50 years, most wpuld have converted to atheism. That was also how ancient Rome invaded and conquered other people. They not only conquered the land, they also conquered the mind - language, culture and religion. You automatically became a Roman. Britain also employed the same principle to expand their empire. Once they conquer you, you become English pledging allegiance to the Queen/King.

The US should have learnt how to completely conquer people - land, mind and soul before embarking on a military invasion.

Can't civilize people who dont want.
West should let China have a go. Afghan had always been a death knell for expansionists from time immemorial.
Today's world demands civility when it comes to conquering, a trait communists dont have.

basilico:


Can't civilize people who dont want.
West should let China have a go. Afghan had always been a death knell for expansionists from time immemorial.
Today's world demands civility when it comes to conquering, a trait communists dont have.

You can. South Americans tribes were "civilized" against their will. Even the Igbos were "civilized" against their will (read Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart. It only times time, re-education and some degree of force.

sanpipita:


The whole point is Taliban is backed by some good level of local support and interests, there might be dissenters but they are taking a beating right now.

I must have needed telling "the whole point is", least I dissent and be "taking a beating right now".

Forgive buda.

basilico:


If the Chinese invade, the Talibans would be disappeared never to be heard of again.

Provide some basis for this claim.

Start with a list of "Chinese invade" please.

wirinet:


The US should have learnt how to completely conquer people - land, mind and soul before embarking on a military invasion.

Jah would never give such power to orange heads!

Beancounter94:


Even if trump plan had been followed in Afghanistan the same result we are seeing would have happened.

Ultimately trump would have withdrawn from Afghanistan.

The problem is that most Afghans don't want to die. They want to survive. That influences thinking even in their army. At the end of the day, the Taliban take over anyway because they are the ones who want to die for their beliefs.

Also the Taliban knew that once trump announced that the US was leaving all they had do was patiently wait. And wait they did.

No, The same result would not have happened. Trump will not watch taliban stroll in. He already did it before. He signed a peace deal and Taliban was breaking the deal so he bombed them just 11 days after he signed it. we knew this was going to happen before biden took out the troops. the thing is biden did not bother to do anything to at least slow down the Taliban conquest.

sanpipita:


What plan would Trump follow than what was in the deal? he was already withdrawing soldiers and even set deadline for May 1st

Again, there is what they call boots on the ground. thats what has happened, the US still has presence in that region and they watch and do nothing. also, I dont think trump's withdrawal of troops would have made it so easy for the taliban

benalvino3:


No, The same result would not have happened. Trump will not watch taliban stroll in. He already did it before. He signed a peace deal and Taliban was breaking the deal so he bombed them just 11 days after he signed it. we knew this was going to happen before biden took out the troops. the thing is biden did not bother to do anything to at least slow down the Taliban conquest.

This is a "Heads I win, Tails you lose"situation. If Biden did not follow through with Trump's plan to pull all U.S. troops from Afghanistan, Republicans and their supporters will blame him for continuing to waste American lives and money on a "meaningless" war. If a US soldier is killed in Afghanistan on the Eve of the next electionz (whether mid term or general elections), it will cost the democrats lots of political capital.

If on the other hand Biden pull out and Taliban takes over and start wrecking havoc on US interests, the same Republicans would blame Biden for pulling out too soon, and blame him for not reversing the Trump's pull out order or delaying it.

benalvino3:


Again, there is what they call boots on the ground. thats what has happened, the US still has presence in that region and they watch and do nothing. also, I dont think trump's withdrawal of troops would have made it so easy for the taliban

Regardless of US military withdrawal maybe we need to ask ourselves why its been so easy for Taliban to take over, what happened to all America's military investment there, are they saying they cat keep Taliban at bay if America isn't not there, some things about this Taliban resurgence doesn't add up, it almost feels like an ambush.

benalvino3:


No, The same result would not have happened. Trump will not watch taliban stroll in. He already did it before. He signed a peace deal and Taliban was breaking the deal so he bombed them just 11 days after he signed it. we knew this was going to happen before biden took out the troops. the thing is biden did not bother to do anything to at least slow down the Taliban conquest.

Calm down what do you want exactly?

I remember well around the end of trumps tenure, when he planned the pulling out More than 65% of trumps supporters supported it, claiming he is fulfilling his final promise, same exact thing is happening now, at a an even later time than trump planned, yet complains

Lmao.

If biden bombs them like you claim, you would come here and say he is a war lover.

Una self.

benalvino3:


No, The same result would not have happened. Trump will not watch taliban stroll in. He already did it before. He signed a peace deal and Taliban was breaking the deal so he bombed them just 11 days after he signed it. we knew this was going to happen before biden took out the troops. the thing is biden did not bother to do anything to at least slow down the Taliban conquest.

It still would have happened. Trump was comitted to leaving Afghanistan. Trump was not a fan of the US staying in Afghanistan at all.

All the taliban needs to do is to wait until the last American troop leaves Afghanistan, and then strike....whether it was Trump or Biden.

Even now, they are patiently waiting for the USA to leave Kabul peacefully. Once that happens, they take over.

It was always the plan. That's how you beat superpowers. You don't attack them directly with the idea that you can fight them directly . You patiently play the long game. The Vietnamese did it against the French and the Americans. The Afghans did it against the British, the Soviets and now the US.

If the US really wanted to deal with the Afghans, they would have had to use Ancient Assyrian tactics. (which I would not repeat here for the sanity of this site. )

The problem is the Afghan army. At the end of the day, they were fighting for a pay packet, and their tribal warlord (the only realy professional unit in the Afghan army was their special forces...but they were just 40000 strong). The taliban is willing to die, and willing to play the long game.

The Trump deal was about getting a ceasefire and forming a government of national unity in afghanistan so that US troops can pull out without any escalation of violence. This clueless dullard called Biden didn't follow up with the deal so it collapsed and the war resumed meanwhile most US troops had already been pulled out. Biden is a big fool, he literally handed afghanistan to the taliban by refusing to follow up with the peace deal and yet refused to do anything in the face of the taliban offensive.

Abascoh:
The Trump deal was about getting a ceasefire and forming a government of national unity in afghanistan so that US troops can pull out without any escalation of violence. This clueless dullard called Biden didn't follow up with the deal so it collapsed and the war resumed meanwhile most US troops had already been pulled out. Biden is a big fool, he literally handed afghanistan to the taliban by refusing to follow up with the peace deal and yet refused to do anything in the face of the taliban offensive.

You got it. Was to be a deal with some element of power sharing.
Not a show of might of the American forces in training corrupt Afghan army to crush the Taliban in 6 months after fighting them for 20 years.

Abascoh:
The Trump deal was about getting a ceasefire and forming a government of national unity in afghanistan so that US troops can pull out without any escalation of violence. This clueless dullard called Biden didn't follow up with the deal so it collapsed and the war resumed meanwhile most US troops had already been pulled out. Biden is a big fool, he literally handed afghanistan to the taliban by refusing to follow up with the peace deal and yet refused to do anything in the face of the taliban offensive.

Lmao, “forming a government of national unity”

Trump didn't form anything and had a plan to withdraw as early as may 1 2021

Now I am asking where is the deal he formulated

You know nothing yet claim you know.

Lmao.

Timiofak:



Lmao, “forming a government of national unity”

Trump didn't form anything and had a plan to withdraw as early as may 1 2021

Now I am asking where is the deal he formulated

You know nothing yet claim you know.

Lmao.

You are the one that knows nothing, Can you even read at all? The deal wasn't followed through by biden and that's why it collapsed and the fighting resumed. There was supposed to be a power sharing deal under Trump's deal but Biden literally handed over the whole country to the taliban with his incompetence

sanpipita:


Regardless of US military withdrawal maybe we need to ask ourselves why its been so easy for Taliban to take over, what happened to all America's military investment there, are they saying they cat keep Taliban at bay if America isn't not there, some things about this Taliban resurgence doesn't add up, it almost feels like an ambush.

The Military Swamped!

These Trumpanzees are deluded if they think a group whose aim is establishment of Sharia will share power with a secular Government.

Well some President has to carry the can for what would have been an eventual withdrawal. Let it be Biden. Americans won't care.

On a longer time frame, parties carry the can for the wars they start and Afghanistan and Iraq wars were started by a Republican President.