TAO12:
You have a point.

But wait oo, my intention is not kill them na.

PS: Not all of them will commit suicide sha.

See the attached screenshot for instance.

samuk:
Benin/Ife revisited

1. Benin was first visited by the Portuguese in the 1400s.
2. Various Europeans repeatedly visited and documented Benin history from the 1400s to 1897.
3. Benin empire was destroyed by British in 1897 and the Oba deposed to Calabar.
4. Between 1400 to 1897, a period of almost 500 years, nothing, Absolutely nothing was said/mentioned about Ife in Benin history.
5. Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were never mentioned in Benin eyewitness historical accounts.
6. The foremost Yoruba linguist Ajayi Crowder was said to have been born in 1809. He was captured and enslaved.
7. He returned back and started a mission in Nigeria in 1842 and started documenting Yoruba history.
8. He died in 1891.
9. In Ajayi Crowder lifetime, 1809 to 1891, Benin had five Obas. Five Obas of Benin reigned in Ajayi Crowder lifetime.
10. Five Obas of Benin died and five coronations of Obas of Benin were held in Ajayi Crowder lifetime.
11. Ajayi Crowder never mentioned Benin in connection with Ife. There is no eyewitness or hearsay from Ajayi Crowder that Benin had any relationship with Ife during his lifetime.

Evidence put forward in support of Benin/Ife relationship by preachers of Benin/Ife relationship before 1897.

12. The only evidence shamelessly provided so far by the preachers of Benin/Ife relationship is Organe.
13 Organe was said to have been mentioned in the history of Benin in the 1500s.
14. This Organe direction was given as east of Benin. Ife is west of Benin.
15. This Organe was said to be 900 miles from Benin, Ife is about 177 miles from Benin.
15. The travelling distance from this Organe was said to be 20 months from Benin. Ife is less that a day's journey from Benin.

Questions:

1. Why will Benin have relationship with Ife for over 800 years and not a single mentioned in the eyewitness documented history of either Benin or Yoruba for almost 500 years. Why not a single mention.
2. Why did Ajayi Crowder whose lifetime saw the reigns of the last five Obas of Benin before the end of the empire in 1897 not recorded or mentioned Benin/Ife relationship in his written works. Why didn't him mention this supposed very important relationship in his brief history of Yoruba.
3. Why were there no recorded interactions between Benin and Ife for almost 500 years.

Review of Organe evidence to support Benin/Ife relationship.

1. Even if Organe was Ife, why just one mention of this supposed fictional Ife in Benin history for a period of almost 500 years of documented history.
2. Apart from this one mention, there is absolutely no any other evidence put forward that Benin had anything to do with Ife before 1897.

Conclusion

It is safe to say that there is absolutely zero evidence to support the claims of Benin/Ife relationship before 1897.

The readers can Judge for themselves.

TAO11:
You Benins are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. Jokers.

Crowther is not a historian, he is a linguist. He didn’t write a Yoruba history book. His books are generally grammar books, dictionary, etc. being a linguist.

Although he sometimes set aside introductory notes to Yoruba creation stories as well as Oyo kingship (being from Osoogun), and this introductory notes usually takes roughly 3% of the entire pages.

A sane mind wonders then how the next thing on his mind to write about (in a books of language) would be Ife-Benin connection. You’re hoplessly delusional.

Moreover, Mr. Cyril Punch who toured Yoruba cities and was also in Benin wrote in his 1889 Journal that:

“As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and the sense of the spirit of a long past of atrocities, which, if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers' men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly in their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

As for the Ife ‘bronze’ sculptures, the quotation here (is from an academic, expert, and professional Art Historian) shows IFE on the same pedestal as Greek, Rome, and Egypt.

“[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”.

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

No such comparison with the great arts of the world is recorded for Benin. Show me one

——————
Regarding the father-Ife/son-Benin classic connection, refer again to the following comments for a harsh reminder (and some trauma) which you were earlier on being endowed with:

This is not true.

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

PS: (1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.

(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.

(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.
The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.

Who born monkey?

TAO11:
IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City.

However, the alleged distance of 900 miles is NOT mentioned anywhere in the text.

Instead, the distance between Benin City and the Ogane’s place [as given in the text] is 250 leagues.

However, this number (250 leagues) wasn’t obtained (by the Portuguese) from any Bini informant. This fact is extremely clear from the text itself.

In fact, the Binis who lived in the 1400s/1500s did not measure distance in leagues, miles, etc. As such, they couldn’t have given such information.

Instead, the Binis of the 1400s, 1500s, etc. measured distance in natural terms, e.g. on the basis of celestial bodies such as the Moon, etc.

Interestingly, the distance obtained from the Binis by the Portuguese was given in terms of the Moon. This is given in the text.

The Binis informed the Portuguese that it takes twenty (20) moons journey to go from Benin city to the Ogané’s place.

It was on the basis of this received information (i.e. 20 moons journey away) that the Portuguese imagined what the distance in “leagues” should be.

The distance in leagues was NOT received from the Binis. The text is clear on this. The W/African context is also clear on this.

Having said that, the natural question now becomes:

Is this number (20 moons journey from Benin City to the Ogane’s place) realistic for IFE if it is indeed the Ogane’s place??

In other words, could the distance from Benin City to Ile-Ife possibly have been twenty moons journey in some “traditional” terms? Let’s do the Maths on the basis of average numbers & the “traditional” context.

The data to be used for the Math is NOT on the basis of Google map’s algorithm which assumes a walking trip with zero tiredness, zero rests, zero stops, zero pauses, zero relaxations, zero camps, constant rapid pace, etc.

Instead, the data to be used is on the basis of the real life situation, average numbers, & traditional context.

Datum 1: C. G. Okojie’s “Ishan Native Laws and Customs,” p. 210. provides the first data as follows:

The walking trip from Uromi (in Ishan) to Benin City on a course of some 50 miles “traditionally” took an average of 5 months.

~ Cited in A.F.C. Ryder (1965), p.27.

Datum 2: IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City (even over the ancient Benin-Owo-Ife route).

These two data leave an answer of about 17.4 months [NOT moons] as the “traditional” walking time from Benin to Ife.

In other words, IFE is 17.4 months journey away from Benin city on the average “traditionally”.

Question: How many “moons” are 17.4 months equivalent to? To answer this, two pieces of data will be adduced.

Datum 3: It takes the Moon 27.322 days to go around the earth.

In other words, there are [exactly] about 27.322 days in one “moon”.

Datum 4: There is an average of 30.47 days in one month.

Summary:
(1) The “traditional” walking distance from Benin to Ile-Ife took an average of 17.4 months

(2) 17.4 months are equivalent to 530.178 days (i.e. 17.4 months * 30.47days per month).

(3) 530.178 days are equivalent to 19.4 moons (i.e. 530.178 days / 27.322 days per moon).

In conclusion, the facts and figures turn out to prove that the “traditional” trip from Benin city to Ile-Ife took an average of 19.4 moons.

This answer is therefore astoundingly accurate for all practical intents and purpose.

From this again, we see that Ife is indeed the place of the Ogané of the Portuguese text. The Bini informant knew exactly what he was talking about.

TAO12:


PS: References to this great overlord (to whom Benin obas are subservient) is documented not once, not twice, not thrice by independent Europeans, but at least five sepearate times spanning centuries prior to the 1800s.

Peace!

gregyboy:
[s]Only if the ooni of ife was really oghane n uhe
You wont br here trying to convince us to think otherwise
Ife is west oghene is east but tao11 says no..
That west means east and east means west... Lol
In my who life of reading yoruba history is only the benins that have called ooni of ife, oghene u uhe amongst all Yorubas kings... Lol that calls ooni as ooniIs God not wonderful
That only the benins calls ooni of ife oghene n uhe amongst all other Yoruba kings...
I wonder why the oba benin could not know that is father name was ooni and not oghene
Tao11 can you help out
West is east and east is west [/s]

gregyboy:
[s]Oduduwa was a female goddess in 1894 and transgended to a man in 1897[/s]

TAO12:


https://www.nairaland.com/6482972/name-lagos-called-ekonunuame-benins/25#104790300

gregyboy:
Lol, Ugbe is a yoruba man

TAO12:
Just like you’re a Yoruba man according to your Lord, @Truthvalue.

@UGBE634, what is your thought on this allegation by @gregyboy??

He thinks you’re a Yoruba man because you admitted the truth without mincing words.

UGBE634:
The fact is who is Edo or not is not for him to decide, it was bestowed on me by my ancestors not him. I am not even from the stock that migrated here, I am from Ugo, I am pure Edo. The Oba himself knows he is Yoruba, how would a man contend in a land that is his. The Ekiokpagha treaty is the greatest deciding factor for me

samuk:


There is alot here in your write up. Lets break it down little by little.

Are you saying Oduduwa was originally from Ife and your Moroccan and other middle eastern relatives migrated from Ife to middle east or Oduduwa was a Yoruba man who migrated from the middle east. You already told us how DNA linked Yoruba and middle east people together. What I want to know is the direction of migration, did Oduduwa migrated from the middle east or middle east people migrated from Ife. What does Odu Ifa say about this?

A lot of ignorant people like TAO11 will want to learn from you. No insults, I am sure you can do away with the insults whilst you explain your position.

If we are to believe TAO11 that Oduduwa was originally from Ife, then the only way Yoruba people can be related to middle eastern people of Morocco, Egypt and Saudi Arabia will be these people migrating out of Ife. Do you agree or disagree with this simple observation.

gregyboy:
If anybody sees anything like ekiokpagha treaty in any old document let us know...

I feel personally ekiokpagha treaty is a peace treaty made by arohuan and esigie..


Samuk
Etinosa1234
Areafada2

samuk:


The word treaty itself is a foreign word to us. I suppose they are referring to some sort of agreement between the Oba and some/a powerful chief or even a prince of the royal household.

It's quite possible that the Oba would have entered into many of such peaceful agreements when he was unable to use force to have his ways.

The history of Edayi n' Iken or Edaiken of Uselu is one of the numerous internal conflicts from internal rivals the past Oba had to find ways to overcome.

Iken was said to be a powerful figure in Uselu who the Oba of Benin wasn't comfortable with and he was sent on a war with eastern Yoruba. It was said that unknown to Iken, the Oba instructed some Benin soldiers who accompanied Iken on the war to ensure Iken doesn't return alive.

After successfully prosecuting the war and on their way back to Benin, Iken was murdered, the rumour of his murder got to his supporters in Uselu. His Uselu people threatened to attacked Benin, the Oba sent a message to them that Iken wasn't dead and he will returned back to them as soon as the war was over.

An agreement was reached in which the Oba sent his first son and heir to Uselu, only to be returned back to Benin whenever Iken returns. On the demise of the Oba and as Iken was yet to return back to Uselu, the Oba heir is escorted back to Benin and the next heir is sent back to Uselu to continue to hold Iken's place.

Back to the Ekiokpagha treaty, I very much doubt that this treaty/agreement have anything to do with Ife. The reason for my doubts is simply the fact that Ife didn't appear in Benin history until the end of the Benin empire in 1897. Ife wasn't either in Benin oral history none can it be found in the history of Benin that were documented by European eyewitnesses.

Everything to do with Ife was created and written after 1897. Ife was inserted into Benin history after 1897 for the mutual political benefits of the Oba of Benin and Yoruba who were looking for rich history such as that of Benin to give some prestige to the Yoruba tribe that largely lack history before 1826.

Benin/Ife relationship was a politically created history after 1897. This is why there are hardly any concrete and convincing evidence to support such relationship pre 1897.

If Benin had any relationship with Ife pre 1897, our oral history would have been littered with it. It would have also been documented by the Europeans.

The reference to Ekiokpagha treaty was just to add flavour to this fairytale.

After the British destroyed Benin in 1897, they also wanted to end the present dynasty but failed in this aspect. Some Benin nobles and princes started this fairytale relationship with Ife for the survival of the dynasty. As soon as Nigeria got independence from Britain and midwestern region pulled out of western region, the Benin/Ife narrative changed. Oduduwa that was created from Yoruba myths in 1897 changed to Izoduwa.

Those that are seriously interested in true history of Benin should find European eyewitness accounts written in just 1800s, no need to go far back. Read Button accounts when he interviewed Oba of Benin in 1865, there was a clear distinction between Yoruba and Benin people. Read Hughes 1826 encounter with the Alaafin of Oyo, again, another clear distinction was made between Benin and Yoruba.

How many of the 39 obas of Benin before they were recently increased to 40 had Yoruba names. Why will Oba of Benin be Yoruba and not bear Yoruba names. The biggest identifier of Yoruba people anywhere in the world is their names which they are very proud of. Yoruba only started appearing in the royal household starting from oba Eweka 2. How many of Ovonramwen children had Yoruba names.

Benin share far more commonality in names with the Igbos than with the Yorubas.

1. Ugo (name of ugbe village)
2. Isi
3. Iken
4. Izu
5. Agboghidi (obi of Onitsha traditional title)
6. Udo (name of Onitsha revered shrine)
7. Okoro
8. Eze
Etc.

The relationship Benin had with Yoruba before 1897 is not different from the relationship Benin had with Igbos because Benin is situated between these tribes and Benin expanded in all directions.

If you are one of those that have not be able to read the history of Benin earlier than 1897, it's very easy for you to be fooled that Benin or atleast the Oba of Benin is Yoruba but as soon as you read earlier than 1897 you begin to see the lie.

samuk:


The word treaty itself is a foreign word to us. I suppose they are referring to some sort of agreement between the Oba and some/a powerful chief or even a prince of the royal household.

It's quite possible that the Oba would have entered into many of such peaceful agreements when he was unable to use force to have his ways.

The history of Edayi n' Iken or Edaiken of Uselu is one of the numerous internal conflicts from internal rivals the past Oba had to find ways to overcome.

Iken was said to be a powerful figure in Uselu who the Oba of Benin wasn't comfortable with and he was sent on a war with eastern Yoruba. It was said that unknown to Iken, the Oba instructed some Benin soldiers who accompanied Iken on the war to ensure Iken doesn't return alive.

After successfully prosecuting the war and on their way back to Benin, Iken was murdered, the rumour of his murder got to his supporters in Uselu. His Uselu people threatened to attacked Benin, the Oba sent a message to them that Iken wasn't dead and he will returned back to them as soon as the war was over.

An agreement was reached in which the Oba sent his first son and heir to Uselu, only to be returned back to Benin whenever Iken returns. On the demise of the Oba and as Iken was yet to return back to Uselu, the Oba heir is escorted back to Benin and the next heir is sent back to Uselu to continue to hold Iken's place.

Back to the Ekiokpagha treaty, I very much doubt that this treaty/agreement have anything to do with Ife. The reason for my doubts is simply the fact that Ife didn't appear in Benin history until the end of the Benin empire in 1897. Ife wasn't either in Benin oral history none can it be found in the history of Benin that were documented by European eyewitnesses.

Everything to do with Ife was created and written after 1897. Ife was inserted into Benin history after 1897 for the mutual political benefits of the Oba of Benin and Yoruba who were looking for rich history such as that of Benin to give some prestige to the Yoruba tribe that largely lack history before 1826.

Benin/Ife relationship was a politically created history after 1897. This is why there are hardly any concrete and convincing evidence to support such relationship pre 1897.

If Benin had any relationship with Ife pre 1897, our oral history would have been littered with it. It would have also been documented by the Europeans.

The reference to Ekiokpagha treaty was just to add flavour to this fairytale.

After the British destroyed Benin in 1897, they also wanted to end the present dynasty but failed in this aspect. Some Benin nobles and princes started this fairytale relationship with Ife for the survival of the dynasty. As soon as Nigeria got independence from Britain and midwestern region pulled out of western region, the Benin/Ife narrative changed. Oduduwa that was created from Yoruba myths in 1897 changed to Izoduwa.

Those that are seriously interested in true history of Benin should find European eyewitness accounts written in just 1800s, no need to go far back. Read Button accounts when he interviewed Oba of Benin in 1865, there was a clear distinction between Yoruba and Benin people. Read Hughes 1826 encounter with the Alaafin of Oyo, again, another clear distinction was made between Benin and Yoruba.

How many of the 39 obas of Benin before they were recently increased to 40 had Yoruba names. Why will Oba of Benin be Yoruba and not bear Yoruba names. The biggest identifier of Yoruba people anywhere in the world is their names which they are very proud of. Yoruba only started appearing in the royal household starting from oba Eweka 2. How many of Ovonramwen children had Yoruba names.

Benin share far more commonality in names with the Igbos than with the Yorubas.

1. Ugo (name of ugbe village)
2. Isi
3. Iken
4. Izu
5. Agboghidi (obi of Onitsha traditional title)
6. Udo (name of Onitsha revered shrine)
7. Okoro
8. Eze
Etc.

The relationship Benin had with Yoruba before 1897 is not different from the relationship Benin had with Igbos because Benin is situated between these tribes and Benin expanded in all directions.

If you are one of those that have not be able to read the history of Benin earlier than 1897, it's very easy for you to be fooled that Benin or atleast the Oba of Benin is Yoruba but as soon as you read earlier than 1897 you begin to see the lie.

Olu317:
There is no iota of doubt that Igodomigodo share some certain characteristics with Ibos,Urhobo,Isoko, Ika Ibos, ijaws, etc which Yoruba Ileife has never denounce.

Instead, Yoruba Ooni assert, that Bini land is founded by Yoruba Prince-king Oranmiyan.

This is actually different from the Igodomigodo land, which Urhobo, Isoko etc moved away from when the land was in turmoil.

TAO11:
You Benins are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. Jokers.

Crowther is not a historian, he is a linguist. He didn’t write a Yoruba history book. His books are generally grammar books, dictionary, etc. being a linguist.

Although he sometimes set aside introductory notes to Yoruba creation stories as well as Oyo kingship (being from Osoogun), and this introductory notes usually takes roughly 3% of the entire pages.

A sane mind wonders then how the next thing on his mind to write about (in a books of language) would be Ife-Benin connection. You’re hoplessly delusional.

Moreover, Mr. Cyril Punch who toured Yoruba cities and was also in Benin wrote in his 1889 Journal that:

“As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and the sense of the spirit of a long past of atrocities, which, if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers' men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly in their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

As for the Ife ‘bronze’ sculptures, the quotation here (is from an academic, expert, and professional Art Historian) shows IFE on the same pedestal as Greek, Rome, and Egypt.

“[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”.

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

No such comparison with the great arts of the world is recorded for Benin. Show me one

——————
Regarding the father-Ife/son-Benin classic connection, refer again to the following comments for a harsh reminder (and some trauma) which you were earlier on being endowed with:

This is not true.

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

PS: (1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.

(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.

(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.
The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.

Who born monkey?

samuk:


Don't waste your time, Benin didn't have any connection with Ife, Oduduwa or Oranmiyan.

Benin dynasty used the Yoruba to fend off powerfull chiefs such as Agho Obaseki from usurping the throne, then used powerful Yoruba politicians such as Awolowo to consolidate their position.

Oba Akenzua 2 even agreed to be a minister without portfolio in Awolowo western region government. As soon as the mission was completed and the Yoruba was overreaching her boundaries, the eastern Igbo through Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe was used to pull mid-west out of the west.

Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe traces his ancestral lineage to Benin, so using his political influence to help mid-west pull out of the Western region was easy.

After the British destroyed Benin in 1897 and banished or depot Oba Ovonramwen to Calabar, Benin was left without an Oba for 17 years, 1897 - 1914. The future of the dynasty became precarious and uncertainty was in the air. The royal household/institution have to pull all strings for survival. This is how the Benin/Ife relationship was born. It was a child of necessity and the Yoruba who were then the poster children of the British were only too happy to be part of such relationship (Benin/Ife relationship).

The Benin royal household/institutions and the Fulani oligarchy are perhaps the greatest politicians and some of the smartest people/institutions in Nigeria. This is also the reason that the two most powerful kingdom in Nigeria was the Benin kingdom and the Fulani Sokoto caliphate.

If the Oba of Benin was really related to Yoruba obas, there wouldn't have been the need for mid-west region to fight their way out of the western region.

What played out was politics that is far beyond your comprehension.

Concentrate your efforts in trying to prove to your fellow Yoruba people how you guys are related to the Egyptians, Saudi Arabians, Moroccans and other middle eastern people.

The Yoruba weren't the only ones that were fooled by Benin/Ife relationship fairytale, numerous Benin are also victims, but the Europeans who were very familiar with Benin history for over 400 years were not fooled and they let us know that the Benin/Ife connection was a recent story which their European ancestors who visited Benin were not familiar with. This is how people like myself started looking at Benin history pre 1897 to find any connection with Ife and found none.

Benin/Ife relationship was created after Britain destroyed Benin in 1897 and lasted till 1970, it was modified and Oduduwa became Izoduwa, Oduduwa became a Benin prince. Before 1897 Oduduwa was just a myth, not a person that existed.

Olu317:
Faace saving for you, right ? LMAO.
Truth catches up like fire, so continue to read about Yoruba ancestors , who are over lord in your kingdom.

TAO11:
You Benins are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. Jokers.

Crowther is not a historian, he is a linguist. He didn’t write a Yoruba history book. His books are generally grammar books, dictionary, etc. being a linguist.

Although he sometimes set aside introductory notes to Yoruba creation stories as well as Oyo kingship (being from Osoogun), and this introductory notes usually takes roughly 3% of the entire pages.

A sane mind wonders then how the next thing on his mind to write about (in a books of language) would be Ife-Benin connection. You’re hoplessly delusional.

Moreover, Mr. Cyril Punch who toured Yoruba cities and was also in Benin wrote in his 1889 Journal that:

“As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and the sense of the spirit of a long past of atrocities, which, if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers' men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly in their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

As for the Ife ‘bronze’ sculptures, the quotation here (is from an academic, expert, and professional Art Historian) shows IFE on the same pedestal as Greek, Rome, and Egypt.

“[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”.

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

No such comparison with the great arts of the world is recorded for Benin. Show me one

——————
Regarding the father-Ife/son-Benin classic connection, refer again to the following comments for a harsh reminder (and some trauma) which you were earlier on being endowed with:

This is not true.

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

PS: (1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.

(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.

(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.
The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.

Who born monkey?

TAO11:
IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City.

However, the alleged distance of 900 miles is NOT mentioned anywhere in the text.

Instead, the distance between Benin City and the Ogane’s place [as given in the text] is 250 leagues.

However, this number (250 leagues) wasn’t obtained (by the Portuguese) from any Bini informant. This fact is extremely clear from the text itself.

In fact, the Binis who lived in the 1400s/1500s did not measure distance in leagues, miles, etc. As such, they couldn’t have given such information.

Instead, the Binis of the 1400s, 1500s, etc. measured distance in natural terms, e.g. on the basis of celestial bodies such as the Moon, etc.

Interestingly, the distance obtained from the Binis by the Portuguese was given in terms of the Moon. This is given in the text.

The Binis informed the Portuguese that it takes twenty (20) moons journey to go from Benin city to the Ogané’s place.

It was on the basis of this received information (i.e. 20 moons journey away) that the Portuguese imagined what the distance in “leagues” should be.

The distance in leagues was NOT received from the Binis. The text is clear on this. The W/African context is also clear on this.

Having said that, the natural question now becomes:

Is this number (20 moons journey from Benin City to the Ogane’s place) realistic for IFE if it is indeed the Ogane’s place??

In other words, could the distance from Benin City to Ile-Ife possibly have been twenty moons journey in some “traditional” terms? Let’s do the Maths on the basis of average numbers & the “traditional” context.

The data to be used for the Math is NOT on the basis of Google map’s algorithm which assumes a walking trip with zero tiredness, zero rests, zero stops, zero pauses, zero relaxations, zero camps, constant rapid pace, etc.

Instead, the data to be used is on the basis of the real life situation, average numbers, & traditional context.

Datum 1: C. G. Okojie’s “Ishan Native Laws and Customs,” p. 210. provides the first data as follows:

The walking trip from Uromi (in Ishan) to Benin City on a course of some 50 miles “traditionally” took an average of 5 months.

~ Cited in A.F.C. Ryder (1965), p.27.

Datum 2: IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City (even over the ancient Benin-Owo-Ife route).

These two data leave an answer of about 17.4 months [NOT moons] as the “traditional” walking time from Benin to Ife.

In other words, IFE is 17.4 months journey away from Benin city on the average “traditionally”.

Question: How many “moons” are 17.4 months equivalent to? To answer this, two pieces of data will be adduced.

Datum 3: It takes the Moon 27.322 days to go around the earth.

In other words, there are [exactly] about 27.322 days in one “moon”.

Datum 4: There is an average of 30.47 days in one month.

Summary:
(1) The “traditional” walking distance from Benin to Ile-Ife took an average of 17.4 months

(2) 17.4 months are equivalent to 530.178 days (i.e. 17.4 months * 30.47days per month).

(3) 530.178 days are equivalent to 19.4 moons (i.e. 530.178 days / 27.322 days per moon).

In conclusion, the facts and figures turn out to prove that the “traditional” trip from Benin city to Ile-Ife took an average of 19.4 moons.

This answer is therefore astoundingly accurate for all practical intents and purpose.

From this again, we see that Ife is indeed the place of the Ogané of the Portuguese text. The Bini informant knew exactly what he was talking about.

TAO12:
And samuk, the obese midget has known no peace since his own people began to embrace truth rather than his fictional missive.

See the attachments at my second comment below for some testimony from samuk’s Bini brothers.

Take heart samuk.

TAO12:
And it was never my fault that samuk’s brain is under lock and keys.

Visit these comments of mine again, samuk, whenever your oba lifts the ban he placed on the use of brain.

It was never my fault that samuk failed Maths basic arithmetic at school — hence his PTSD from Math.

In any case, your people who can read and who know some arithmetic have been following my comments, and their testimonies are attached below.



PS: References to this great overlord (to whom Benin obas are subservient) is documented not once, not twice, not thrice by independent Europeans; but at least five separate times spanning centuries prior to the 1800s.

Peace!

samuk:
[s]I understand your pain and emotional outburst. I wouldn't have expected less from you, not after I have exposed the politics behind the Benin/Ife connection fairytale . Take it easy, you didn't really believe that the truth will be hidden forever, do you.

The situation is so bad that you now rely on comments from Benin people on nairaland as evidence to support your fairytale. You are now like a broken record that repeats itself. Meanwhile I am chipping away what's left in your Benin/Ife fallacy.

I have already shown the relationship between Benin and Yoruba in the earlier part of this thread.

The relationship was filled with blood of many Yoruba traditional rulers that were beheaded by successive Obas of Benin before 1897. But after 1897, the story changed, it was as if Benin didn't have history pre 1897. It was as if Benin began a new dynasty after oba Ovonramwen.

Benin automatically became Yoruba relatives. Benin princes even started bearing Yoruba names, meanwhile, no Benin prince had Yoruba name in the previous 900 years, people started writing stories/lies to cement this new found relationship, forgetting that the Europeans have been painstakingly documenting Benin history for over 400 years.[/s]

TAO11:
You Benins are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. Jokers.

Crowther is not a historian, he is a linguist. He didn’t write a Yoruba history book. His books are generally grammar books, dictionary, etc. being a linguist.

Although he sometimes set aside introductory notes to Yoruba creation stories as well as Oyo kingship (being from Osoogun), and this introductory notes usually takes roughly 3% of the entire pages.

A sane mind wonders then how the next thing on his mind to write about (in a books of language) would be Ife-Benin connection. You’re hoplessly delusional.

Moreover, Mr. Cyril Punch who toured Yoruba cities and was also in Benin wrote in his 1889 Journal that:

“As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and the sense of the spirit of a long past of atrocities, which, if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers' men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly in their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

As for the Ife ‘bronze’ sculptures, the quotation here (is from an academic, expert, and professional Art Historian) shows IFE on the same pedestal as Greek, Rome, and Egypt.

“[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”.

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

No such comparison with the great arts of the world is recorded for Benin. Show me one

——————
Regarding the father-Ife/son-Benin classic connection, refer again to the following comments for a harsh reminder (and some trauma) which you were earlier on being endowed with:

This is not true.

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

PS: (1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.

(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.

(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.
The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.

Who born monkey?

gregyboy:
[s]So our benin brothers is now your historians you quote.. Lol[/s]

samuk:


I understand your pain and emotional outburst. I wouldn't have expected less from you, not after I have exposed the politics behind the Benin/Ife connection fairytale . Take it easy, you didn't really believe that the truth will be hidden forever, do you.

The situation is so bad that you now rely on comments from Benin people on nairaland as evidence to support your fairytale. You are now like a broken record that repeats itself. Meanwhile I am chipping away what's left in your Benin/Ife fallacy.

I have already shown the relationship between Benin and Yoruba in the earlier part of this thread.

The relationship was filled with blood of many Yoruba traditional rulers that were beheaded by successive Obas of Benin before 1897. But after 1897, the story changed, it was as if Benin didn't have history pre 1897. It was as if Benin began a new dynasty after oba Ovonramwen.

Benin automatically became Yoruba relatives. Benin princes even started bearing Yoruba names, meanwhile, no Benin prince had Yoruba name in the previous 900 years, people started writing stories/lies to cement this new found relationship, forgetting that the Europeans have been painstakingly documenting Benin history for over 400 years.