Agboriotejoye:

Omar died in 2013 and the Taliban couldn't own up to it. Think about that.
Osama was in Afghanistan as at 2001 from where he moved to Yemen then back to Pakistan. If Afghanistan had given him up to answer for his crimes against US, the war wouldn't have happened.
You're making it sound like Afghanistan were just doing their salat peacefully and the warmongering US just decided to bomb them.
US mission was to dislodge Taliban in 2001 which they did quickly and smartly. They then got the chief terrorist Bin Laden in 2009 and smoked him as well. So the military occupation was not a waste. You can name the 2001 leaders who are still alive apart from Baradah.
The US legacy is education and civil rights. It is left to the people of Afghan to decide if they want it.

living taliban leaders include: AbdulHakim Haqqani, Sher Muhammad Abbas Stanikzai, Sirajuddin Haqqani...these were all high ranking leaders of the group before the invasion

One thing you must understand is that, the Taliban weren't in support of the 9/11 attacks against the U.S. They harboured Osama because he was their long time ally and comrade in arms who had fought alongside them against the soviets...infact, they'd publicly condemned the 9/11 attacks several times

When the U.S demanded that Osama be handed over, they refused, saying that if the U.S had evidence of Osama's involvement in 9/11, they should give it to them and that they would try Osama in their Courts...even going as far as saying that the U.S could supervise the trial to ensure justice would be served

The U.S flatly refused and gave the Taliban an ultimatum to either hand him over or die with him. All the while the Taliban kept on saying they didn't want war, but alas, the U.S was hell bent on vengeance for 9/11 and after 20years, here we are today

The group not immediately announcing Mullah Omar's death doesn't seem an issue for me, i believe they did so probably to prevent the group from fracturing, but when the news came out, nothing of such happened....so it's inconsequential to me

The U.S legacy is one of repression and stagnation of a developing society. You can't impose ways that are alien to a people and then pretend that all is well and that there's progress.

Afghans are a different people with different values and whatever progress they will register must be internal...not by western imposition like the U.S did

Antoeni:
Afghanistan is a very tough cookie...
The history of the place indicates that no foreign powers have successfully occupied/conquered the place for a reasonable period of time, from ancient history...

Even the famed Alexander the great, could not hold them down for long...then the British, the Russians... then the Americans...
The country is famously described as "The graveyard of empires"....

[b]However,it is better for the Taliban to be openly in charge of a stable national government,[/b]than for them to continue to be an irresponsible, rogue terrorist opposition, spawning sundry terror groups and cells the world over...

It is my belief that with their victory (whatever the costs), and assumption of the reins of power/governance,they can now openly be held to account...

This is will be practically problematic

1,the Taliban is a group that consists of smaller sub groups of different Taliban war lord's

2.they sourced funds from opium trade and have connections with radicalized Islamic terror blocks

3.they have worked into economic embargo with the west(the west bring funds to Afghanistan through tourism which is heavily anti Taliban)

4.inorder for it to be accepted internationally it will need to become a less moderate govt(which is impossible)

5.Taliban may have acquired military weapons from the ousted afghan govt but it runs into problem of running other affairs of afghan because of afghanis educated women run run the department effectively.

6.there are other regional war lord's the Taliban will contend with

7,and so on and so forth

Ayaaz:


living taliban leaders include: AbdulHakim Haqqani, Sher Muhammad Abbas Stanikzai, Sirajuddin Haqqani...these were all high ranking leaders of the group before the invasion

One thing you must understand is that, the Taliban weren't in support of the 9/11 attacks against the U.S. They harboured Osama because he was their long time ally and comrade in arms who had fought alongside them against the soviets...infact, they'd publicly condemned the 9/11 attacks several times

When the U.S demanded that Osama be handed over, they refused, saying that if the U.S had evidence of Osama's involvement in 9/11, they should give it to them and that they would try Osama in their Courts...even going as far as saying that the U.S could supervise the trial to ensure justice would be served

The U.S flatly refused and gave the Taliban an ultimatum to either hand him over or die with him. All the while the Taliban kept on saying they didn't want war, but alas, the U.S was hell bent on vengeance for 9/11 and after 20years, here we are today

The group not immediately announcing Mullah Omar's death doesn't seem an issue for me, i believe they did so probably to prevent the group from fracturing, but when the news came out, nothing of such happened....so it's inconsequential to me

The U.S legacy is one of repression and stagnation of a developing society. You can't impose ways that are alien to a people and then pretend that all is well and that there's progress.

Afghans are a different people with different values and whatever progress they will register must be internal...not by western imposition like the U.S did

It was the Taliban led govt that ran an oppressive regime when it was in power before it was ousted by the US govt

SARSCoV2:



And Israel that's closest to the West to the West is a pauper!

Waiting for tax payers money from USA

Before you say A,. Know that Israel is part of the poorest nations in the Middle Eat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Egypt#:~:text=The%20Muslim%20conquest%20of%20Egypt,in%2030%20BC)%20over%20Egypt.

Islam just got into Egypt circa AD 639 and 646! And that coincides with the rapid regression of Egypt into what it has become today! As for Isreal - If you say Israel is a pauper because they depend on the west , then Saudi Arabia is super poor because they also depend on the west - In case you don't know even the Saudi's military is heavily backed by US forces. Israel is a pauper, but all the combined powers of your Islamic/ Arabic powers were defeated in 6 days by the same poor Israel, keep deceiving yourself.

Agboriotejoye:


Because since they can't invade, they take to terrorism. Do you know how many billions of dollars is spent on counter-terrorism every year?
Money that could be spent fighting malnutrition, illiteracy and diseases in poor countries most of whom are Muslim majority?

the first armed 'terrorist' group is al-qaeda, all others were inspired by them

Research on the reasons for al-qaeda's formation and you'll understand the falsehood of your claim

If you know geo-politics, the excuse of countering terrorism is used by countries, especially the U.S, to get a blanket cover to secure it's interests using military might, where it otherwise wouldn't be able to

For example, if not for the declaration of the 'war on terror' by President Bush and the subsequent legislation to back it up, America wouldn't have had as many military bases all over the world, which they use to ensure their dominance on the world stage

It's not ABCD, it's alot deeper than you think...you seem to have bought the west's claims hook, line and sinker

Ayaaz:


living taliban leaders include: AbdulHakim Haqqani, Sher Muhammad Abbas Stanikzai, Sirajuddin Haqqani...these were all high ranking leaders of the group before the invasion

One thing you must understand is that, the Taliban weren't in support of the 9/11 attacks against the U.S. They harboured Osama because he was their long time ally and comrade in arms who had fought alongside them against the soviets...infact, they'd publicly condemned the 9/11 attacks several times

When the U.S demanded that Osama be handed over, they refused, saying that if the U.S had evidence of Osama's involvement in 9/11, they should give it to them and that they would try Osama in their Courts...even going as far as saying that the U.S could supervise the trial to ensure justice would be served

The U.S flatly refused and gave the Taliban an ultimatum to either hand him over or die with him. All the while the Taliban kept on saying they didn't want war, but alas, the U.S was hell bent on vengeance for 9/11 and after 20years, here we are today

The group not immediately announcing Mullah Omar's death doesn't seem an issue for me, i believe they did so probably to prevent the group from fracturing, but when the news came out, nothing of such happened....so it's inconsequential to me

The U.S legacy is one of repression and stagnation of a developing society. You can't impose ways that are alien to a people and then pretend that all is well and that there's progress.

Afghans are a different people with different values and whatever progress they will register must be internal...not by western imposition like the U.S did

Reduce your lies small. Those two you mentioned are sons of Jalaludin Haggani who died in 2018. That's not to mention that Haqqani are not leaders in the Taliban. They just pledged allegiance to Taliban. Stanizai was not a leader in the Taliban. He was a deputy minister and was not even trusted in the inner circle of the Taliban but was accommodated due to his education and the fact he could speak English and was thus a link with the western world.

Not every country will sit down and be negotiating with terrorists or expect terrorists to be administering justice to one another on their behalf. America takes the lives of their citizens seriously and no one is going to desecrate America by destroying their Pentagon and WTC and killing over 3,000 and expect the US to listen to one Afghan terrorist sympathizer about how to get justice. They did get Bin Laden without the help of Taliban and took down the Taliban govt.
That was the US aim in Afghanistan and it was well achieved.

Can you tell me how allowing women to hold political positions and go to schools is repression and stagnation?

Going to school was also alien to your fathers but here you are typing on the internet.

Afghan women want to go to school. Nobody wants a police state. Not even the Afghans. It's just that the Islamists and terrorists among them have the upper hand.

You can tell me who imposed way of life on the Afghans between the US and the Taliban.

If you think so then we can also say coups are a way of life and Abacha's rule should not have been disturbed

baralatie:

It was the Taliban led govt that ran an oppressive regime when it was in power before it was ousted by the US govt

I'm not arguing that the Taliban wasn't oppressive, even they admit that they were excessive

you have to understand the context in which Taliban arose. The country was enmeshed in a civil war and the Taliban were compelled to takeover and ensure a cessation of violence...which they achieved

The Taliban's rule wasn't pleasant, but they established security in the country which was appreciated by Afghans then and seemingly, the same is playing out today

the U.S didn't invade Afghanistan on humanitarian grounds, it did so as a response to 9/11. They only touted civil reforms to the world public as a way to show that their intervention was justified

Ayaaz:



1 2 3 are what then?

Modern Egypt's descent started when colonialists meddled in it's affairs and read up on what led to the demise of ancient Egypt and when muslims took over Egypt

some of the most powerful and most flourishing empires in all of history have been muslim ones, to the point that the modern west that is dominant, owes alot to muslim empires of times goneby because they co-opted knowledge they took from them

the muslim nations you're referring to, have to keep a strong relationship with the west, because the governments owe their survival to them, simple...those countries have dictatorial ruling families installed by the west as against popular governments and if you know anything about the politics and policies of those countries, you'll know that they're extremely anti-democracy, which is odd and ironic for such close pals of the 'democratic west'

there's no single existing Islamic government, built and run on Islamic principles and laws anywhere in the world today, so the whole premise of your claim is baseless

More than 80% of the world's poorest people today are Moslems! Most of the Islamic countries are desperately poor and are experiencing
Violence in one form or the other

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/worlds-5-richest-nations-by-gdp-per-capita-2021-05-20

No Moslem country is among the world's richest nation, Not even Saudi Arabia, Most of Today's invention have got not a single input from a any Moslem nation, they are just beneficiaries of inventions from the west much like African states

Even here in Nigeria, out of 10 Children that will go to bed on empty stomach today, 9 will be moslems, Out of 10 out of school Children, 9 will be moslems, out of 10 children without access to clean water 9 will be moslems, every horrible statistics emanates heavily from the moslem North.

Look at all Moslem country in Africa all of them, virtually all are poor and going through or have gone through one severe bout of violence or another, restiveness, civil war, etc.

I dont hate Islam but i think every moslem should look very carefully at themselves, something is wrong somewhere - If a religion breeds terrorism, illiteracy, and retrogression like flies - Something is wrong with the practitioners

huptin:


More than 80% of the world's poorest people today are Moslems! Most of the Islamic countries are desperately poor and are experiencing
Violence in one form or the other

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/worlds-5-richest-nations-by-gdp-per-capita-2021-05-20

No Moslem country is among the world's richest nation, Not even Saudi Arabia, Most of Today's invention have got not a single input from a any Moslem nation, they are just beneficiaries of inventions from the west much like African states

Even here in Nigeria, out of 10 Children that will go to bed on empty stomach today, 9 will be moslems, Out of 10 out of school Children, 9 will be moslems, out of 10 children without access to clean water 9 will be moslems, every horrible statistics emanates heavily from the moslem North.

Look at all Moslem country in Africa all of them, virtually all are poor and going through or have gone through one severe bout of violence or another, restiveness, civil war, etc.

I dont hate Islam but i think every moslem should look very carefully at themselves, something is wrong somewhere - If a religion breeds terrorism, illiteracy, and retrogression like flies - Something is wrong with the practitioners

hit me with the stats when muslims live under islamic systems and islamic rule and not the ones forced on them by non-muslims

Ayaaz:


the first armed 'terrorist' group is al-qaeda, all others were inspired by them

Research on the reasons for al-qaeda's formation and you'll understand the falsehood of your claim

If you know geo-politics, the excuse of countering terrorism is used by countries, especially the U.S, to get a blanket cover to secure it's interests using military might, where it otherwise wouldn't be able to

For example, if not for the declaration of the 'war on terror' by President Bush and the subsequent legislation to back it up, America wouldn't have had as many military bases all over the world, which they use to ensure their dominance on the world stage

It's not ABCD, it's alot deeper than you think...you seem to have bought the west's claims hook, line and sinker

US has been on the Gulf since the 80s. NATO was formed in 1949. By your submission, US probably staged 9/11 so it can deploy its military all over the world. What baloney!!
Al-Qaeda were into guerilla warfare. They were never a formal military group. You are the one claiming what is not.
You can tell me what US interest was in Afghanistan. Was it oil, gold or diamond? Afghanistan was and is a poor country.
US has more bases in Europe and European territories than the Arab countries for your information

Agboriotejoye:


US has been on the Gulf since the 80s. NATO was formed in 1949. By your submission, US probably staged 9/11 so it can deploy its military all over the world. What baloney!!
Al-Qaeda were into guerilla warfare. They were never a formal military group. You are the one claiming what is not.
You can tell me what US interest was in Afghanistan. Was it oil, gold or diamond? Afghanistan was and is a poor country.
US has more bases in Europe and European territories than the Arab countries for your information

i never claimed nor insinuated that the U.S staged 9/11, but certainly, the U.S accelerated its imperialist aims after 9/11

you said muslims are into terrorism because their countries aren't strong enough to invade others, i asked you to check the reason al-qaeda was formed so you can assess your own claim...whether or not al-qaeda is a guerrilla militia or not makes no difference

https://openscholarship.wustl.edu/art_sci_etds/246/

follow the link above to have an idea as to why the U.S and other world powers have an eye on Afghanistan

the U.S has bases all over the world, the expansion of bases in muslim territory is due to the 'fight against terror'

the below is also a little reason why Afghanistan is important in Geo-politics ( it's from Nato's own website):

As a landlocked country neighboring China, Pakistan, Iran and Central Asian countries, Afghanistan has significant geostrategic and geopolitical importance. The Khyber Pass, located between Afghanistan and Pakistan, has long been one of the most important trade routes and strategic military locations in the world. Moreover, the Silk Road passes through Afghanistan. This ancient network of trade routes, 4000 miles long, is known as the cultural crossroads of the Indian, Persian and Chinese civilisations

Ayaaz:


hit me with the stats when muslims live under islamic systems and islamic rule and not the ones forced on them by non-muslims

1. Iraq Under Saddam?
2. Afghanistan under the previous Taliban rule vs Now?
3. Northern Nigeria - before and after Islamic rule?
4. Libya under Ghaddafi (relatively wealthy, but peaceful?)
5. The world under the Ottoman's (The only Islamic empire that actually existed) and now?
6. Egypt - Under the Egyptian Gods, Under Christianity and under Islam, which was more Prosperous?
7. Persia (Iran - before and after Islam?)
8. Somalia - Before and after Islam?
9. Syria - Before and after Islam?
etc etc

Every country that has been touched by Islam except those who are wise enough to hide under the shadow of the west like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Turkey etc have retrogressed badly.

Agboriotejoye:

Reduce your lies small. Those two you mentioned are sons of Jalaludin Haggani who died in 2018. That's not to mention that Haqqani are not leaders in the Taliban. They just pledged allegiance to Taliban. Stanizai was not a leader in the Taliban. He was a deputy minister and was not even trusted in the inner circle of the Taliban but was accommodated due to his education and the fact he could speak English and was thus a link with the western world.

Not every country will sit down and be negotiating with terrorists or expect terrorists to be administering justice to one another on their behalf. America takes the lives of their citizens seriously and no one is going to desecrate America by destroying their Pentagon and WTC and killing over 3,000 and expect the US to listen to one Afghan terrorist sympathizer about how to get justice. They did get Bin Laden without the help of Taliban and took down the Taliban govt.
That was the US aim in Afghanistan and it was well achieved.

Can you tell me how allowing women to hold political positions and go to schools is repression and stagnation?

Going to school was also alien to your fathers but here you are typing on the internet.

Afghan women want to go to school. Nobody wants a police state. Not even the Afghans. It's just that the Islamists and terrorists among them have the upper hand.

You can tell me who imposed way of life on the Afghans between the US and the Taliban.

If you think so then we can also say coups are a way of life and Abacha's rule should not have been disturbed

the Haqqani network are longtime allies of the Taliban and function as a loose arm affiliated with the Taliban...the members i mentioned are high ranking officials of the movement known as Taliban, you need to research better

if you don't consider Stanikhzai a leader because he was a deputy minister, then it seems you only want core founders of the Taliban mentioned. First of all, let me flip the question on you, how many of Taliban's leaders did the U.S claim to take out? Many of Taliban's original leaders are old and the ones that died did moreso die to other factors than assassinations

like i mentioned, even the Taliban admitted to excesses in their rule and they've said and reiterated that they won't implement some of their past policies. It remains to be seen

One thing no one can deny is that without popular support and opposition to U.S imposition, Taliban wouldn't have achieved what they did recently...that's quite evident and on evidence of that, which government do you think Afghans prefer? the Taliban or the U.S imposed one? i think the people's choice is clear for all to see

huptin:


1. Iraq Under Saddam?
2. Afghanistan under the previous Taliban rule vs Now?
3. Northern Nigeria - before and after Islamic rule?
4. Libya under Ghaddafi (relatively wealthy, but peaceful?)
5. The world under the Ottoman's (The only Islamic empire that actually existed) and now?
6. Egypt - Under the Egyptian Gods, Under Christianity and under Islam, which was more Prosperous?
7. Persia (Iran - before and after Islam?)
8. Somalia - Before and after Islam?
9. Syria - Before and after Islam?
etc etc

Every country that has been touched by Islam except those who are wise enough to hide under the shadow of the west like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Turkey etc have retrogressed badly.

elaborate more on your before and after Islam, let's go in-depth

Ayaaz:


i never claimed nor insinuated that the U.S staged 9/11, but certainly, the U.S accelerated its imperialist aims after 9/11

you said muslims are into terrorism because their countries aren't strong enough to invade others, i asked you to check the reason al-qaeda was formed so you can assess your own claim...whether or not al-qaeda is a guerrilla militia or not makes no difference

https://openscholarship.wustl.edu/art_sci_etds/246/

follow the link above to have an idea as to why the U.S and other world powers have an eye on Afghanistan

the U.S has bases all over the world, the expansion of bases in muslim territory is due to the 'fight against terror'

the below is also a little reason why Afghanistan is important in Geo-politics ( it's from Nato's own website):

As a landlocked country neighboring China, Pakistan, Iran and Central Asian countries, Afghanistan has significant geostrategic and geopolitical importance. The Khyber Pass, located between Afghanistan and Pakistan, has long been one of the most important trade routes and strategic military locations in the world. Moreover, the Silk Road passes through Afghanistan. This ancient network of trade routes, 4000 miles long, is known as the cultural crossroads of the Indian, Persian and Chinese civilisations

I stand by what I said. When Muslims were strong, they invaded Spain, Egypt, Turkey which were predominantly Christian nations then. Heck, Usman Dan Fodio invaded Northern Nigeria with Islamism before the colonialists came. But you guys never blame Dan Fodio for invading northern Nigeria and toppling the Hausa kings.
Even before the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, the country has never been united. It is made up of different tribes like Nigeria and has always had problems managing its diversity.
Another propaganda you engage in is to make it seem as if the area of Afghanistan was historically Islam or they accepted Islam peacefully when history proves otherwise. They were forcefully Islamized!! So if you really want justice for the people of Afghanistan, let them return back to Zoroastrianism which was the major Persian religion before the Islamic invasion and conquest.

You're very funny. Do you mean to imply an ancient desert trade route is important to the US in these era of freight through high oceans and air. Stop the fallacy pls. Even the Soviets invaded Afghanistan to have full control over the Iranian and south Asia axis and not for any economic and strategic reason. And when US armed insurgents to get them out, the US did not go into Afghanistan but left it to manage its affairs including a civil war.
Why is the US leaving now if I may ask? Can you tell me what they benefitted in the 20years they held Afghanistan? Did they expand their trade in South Asia or did they exploit the minerals of the land?

Agboriotejoye:


I stand by what I said. When Muslims were strong, they invaded Spain, Egypt, Turkey which were predominantly Christian nations then. Heck, Usman Dan Fodio invaded Northern Nigeria with Islamism before the colonialists came. But you guys never blame Dan Fodio for invading northern Nigeria and toppling the Hausa kings.
Even before the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, the country has never been united. It is made up of different tribes like Nigeria and has always had problems managing its diversity.
Another propaganda you engage in is to make it seem as if the area of Afghanistan was historically Islam or they accepted Islam peacefully when history proves otherwise. They were forcefully Islamized!! So if you really want justice for the people of Afghanistan, let them return back to Zoroastrianism which was the major Persian religion before the Islamic invasion and conquest.

You're very funny. Do you mean to imply an ancient desert trade route is important to the US in these era of freight through high oceans and air. Stop the fallacy pls. Even the Soviets invaded Afghanistan to have full control over the Iranian and south Asia axis and not for any economic and strategic reason. And when US armed insurgents to get them out, the US did not go into Afghanistan but left it to manage its affairs including a civil war.
Why is the US leaving now if I may ask? Can you tell me what they benefitted in the 20years they held Afghanistan? Did they expand their trade in South Asia or did they exploit the minerals of the land?

didn't you also read where i shared that the Khyber Pass for example is one of the most strategic military locations in the world?

FYI, Usman dan Fodio was born and raised in Northern Nigeria which was already muslim territory, his fight wasn't an invasion

Afghans are some of the fiercest muslims anywhere in the world, goodluck getting them to abandon Islam

let's end this here, hold your position, i'll hold mine

Ayaaz:


the Haqqani network are longtime allies of the Taliban and function as a loose arm affiliated with the Taliban...the members i mentioned are high ranking officials of the movement known as Taliban, you need to research better

if you don't consider Stanikhzai a leader because he was a deputy minister, then it seems you only want core founders of the Taliban mentioned. First of all, let me flip the question on you, how many of Taliban's leaders did the U.S claim to take out? Many of Taliban's original leaders are old and the ones that died did moreso die to other factors than assassinations

like i mentioned, even the Taliban admitted to excesses in their rule and they've said and reiterated that they won't implement some of their past policies. It remains to be seen

One thing no one can deny is that without popular support and opposition to U.S imposition, Taliban wouldn't have achieved what they did recently...that's quite evident and on evidence of that, which government do you think Afghans prefer? the Taliban or the U.S imposed one? i think the people's choice is clear for all to see

The Haqqanis are not leaders in Taliban. Stop claiming what is not. Even if they are, the father who was the leader then is dead now. We're talking about the leaders of Taliban as at 2001.
Stanikzai was never trusted. He was seen as a moderate Muslim. Go and check how he left Afghanistan and the roles he played before the invasion and after. Even now, he is not regarded as a Taliban leader. The talks he joined are as good as dead.
The US did not need to claim to take them out. They went underground and died of self-imprisonment they subjected themselves to. They were not old.
Taliban saying they won't implement their former brutality is like a monkey saying it will no longer eat banana. They know no other way.
Popular support? Do you mean coups that were carried out in Nigeria's history had popular support? Have you seen the chaos at the airport and the Afghan borders of Afghans trying to run out of the country? Get real bro. No one likes to live under such oppression in the name of religion.
They achieved what they achieved because the Afghan forces are not that battle savvy, corruption by the military leaders and low morale due to the fact that they see the US withdrawal as an abandonment to the enemy.
So the choice of 150,000 imposed over a 40m people is not necessarily popular.

The world would be a better place

lexuswagon:
ISWAP gearing up to take control of the north.

I rebuke you in JESUS name. Nigeria right now is in GOD's hands in JESUS name, amen

The world would be a better place

Fahdiga:
Imagine this world without Islam

Ayaaz:


didn't you also read where i shared that the Khyber Pass for example is one of the most strategic military locations in the world?

FYI, Usman dan Fodio was born and raised in Northern Nigeria which was already muslim territory, his fight wasn't an invasion

Afghans are some of the fiercest muslims anywhere in the world, goodluck getting them to abandon Islam

let's end this here, hold your position, i'll hold mine

Military location to who and for who? Have the US ever indicated interest in controlling the Khyber pass? Show me when they ever indicated interest in controlling the Khyber pass.
Dan Fodio was of the Tododbe clan and they are not indigenous to Northern Nigeria. You're attempting to use the modern rule which qualifies one to be a Nigerian by birth. It did not exist then. He was not seen as an indigene then. In fact, he was tutored by a Jihadist and was not of the ruling clan of the Hausa kingdoms in the north then which were predominantly pagan. If you first live in a place peacefully then later turn against the people of the place at an opportune moment to impose your will over them, it can be termed an invasion.
Good. So you can say they are fierce Muslims but they were once fierce Zoroastrians. Why didn't Islam seek to convert them peacefully but had to do so forcefully? That shows you where the whole problem is coming from.
Later

Ayaaz:


elaborate more on your before and after Islam, let's go in-depth

I will appreciate it if you can do the research yourself!

As a true moslem you should research deeper into the roots of your religion to understand it better.

boyjo:

I rebuke you in JESUS name. Nigeria right now is in GOD's hands in JESUS name, amen

rebuke ISWAP and boko haram, not me. Have you not heard boko haram installed Governor in borno state? Dey deceive yourself there

Agboriotejoye:

Military location to who and for who? Have the US ever indicated interest in controlling the Khyber pass? Show me when they ever indicated interest in controlling the Khyber pass.
Dan Fodio was of the Tododbe clan and they are not indigenous to Northern Nigeria. You're attempting to use the modern rule which qualifies one to be a Nigerian by birth. It did not exist then. He was not seen as an indigene then. In fact, he was tutored by a Jihadist and was not of the ruling clan of the Hausa kingdoms in the north then which were predominantly pagan. If you first live in a place peacefully then later turn against the people of the place at an opportune moment to impose your will over them, it can be termed an invasion.
Good. So you can say they are fierce Muslims but they were once fierce Zoroastrians. Why didn't Islam seek to convert them peacefully but had to do so forcefully? That shows you where the whole problem is coming from.
Later

talk to me about Afghanistan when you read the link i provided

the kings in the North at the time of Usman dan Fodio were pagan? you CLEARLY are ignorant

about Usman dan Fodio's clan being alien to Northern Nigeria, at that time migrations were common and there weren't defined borders like those of nation-states and Hausaland didn't operate like a modern nation-state. You clearly lack knowledge of how Northern Nigeria operates even today

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Usman Fodio's uprising was a popular one supported by the populace

About muslims forcefully converting Afghans, Afghans are a free people and if they want Zoroastrianism, they have the freewill

Agboriotejoye:

The Haqqanis are not leaders in Taliban. Stop claiming what is not. Even if they are, the father who was the leader then is dead now. We're talking about the leaders of Taliban as at 2001.
Stanikzai was never trusted. He was seen as a moderate Muslim. Go and check how he left Afghanistan and the roles he played before the invasion and after. Even now, he is not regarded as a Taliban leader. The talks he joined are as good as dead.
The US did not need to claim to take them out. They went underground and died of self-imprisonment they subjected themselves to. They were not old.
Taliban saying they won't implement their former brutality is like a monkey saying it will no longer eat banana. They know no other way.
Popular support? Do you mean coups that were carried out in Nigeria's history had popular support? Have you seen the chaos at the airport and the Afghan borders of Afghans trying to run out of the country? Get real bro. No one likes to live under such oppression in the name of religion.
They achieved what they achieved because the Afghan forces are not that battle savvy, corruption by the military leaders and low morale due to the fact that they see the US withdrawal as an abandonment to the enemy.
So the choice of 150,000 imposed over a 40m people is not necessarily popular.

coups are internal, Taliban is an outside force in Afghanistan that took power...they're not the same

Afghans have been running to the borders and have been displaced mostly due to the fighting, it's only to a lesser extent that people are fleeing Taliban rule

The Taliban was strong all through the insurgency and even the U.S, allied western nations and intelligence services are shocked as to how the Taliban were able to sweep through the country...by their estimation, the Afghan army they setup, would withstand a Taliban assault and protect the government, but....

If after 20years, the Afghan army still needs the U.S to exist and remain, then that's a clear failure of the U.S to achieve its objectives

Just acknowledge that it'd be impossible for the Taliban to have achieved what it has, to the extent it has, as fast as it has, without some popular support for it

Look, the U.S military is far more powerful than the Taliban movement, that's certain, but as far as the U.S mission in Afghanistan goes, it's been a futile exercise...quite visibly so

huptin:


I will appreciate it if you can do the research yourself!

As a true moslem you should research deeper into the roots of your religion to understand it better.

I know the roots and history of Islam, do you?

Ayaaz:



coups are internal, Taliban is an outside force in Afghanistan that took power...they're not the same

Afghans have been running to the borders and have been displaced mostly due to the fighting, it's only to a lesser extent that people are fleeing Taliban rule

The Taliban was strong all through the insurgency and even the U.S, allied western nations and intelligence services are shocked as to how the Taliban were able to sweep through the country...by their estimation, the Afghan army they setup, would withstand a Taliban assault and protect the government, but....

If after 20years, the Afghan army still needs the U.S to exist and remain, then that's a clear failure of the U.S to achieve its objectives

Just acknowledge that it'd be impossible for the Taliban to have achieved what it has, to the extent it has, as fast as it has, without some popular support for it

Look, the U.S military is far more powerful than the Taliban movement, that's certain, but as far as the U.S mission in Afghanistan goes, it's been a futile exercise...quite visibly so

There's no evidence on ground that the Taliban takeover is popular. Can you show people dancing and burning US flags?
The Taliban ran away like cowards in the early days of the US attack on them. They ran into caves.
They regrouped because the people of Afghanistan were too docile, weak and corrupt to take their destiny in their hands.
What you're claiming now can be equated to mean all the coups that took place in Nigeria were popular since the people do not revolt. Sometimes, the people do feel helpless especially in a diverse country where tribal affiliations take precedence over any cogent ideology.
The US mission was not futile. Osama is dead. The Taliban was decimated and ran like rats into caves. The fact they were allowed to come back by the Afghan forces is not US fault.
It's the docility that Islam brings that has affected them. We can see an example here in Nigeria where a good portion of northerners who are most affected by insurgency and banditry are ready to defend the govt simply because someone they identify with is in charge.

Agboriotejoye:


There's no evidence on ground that the Taliban takeover is popular. Can you show people dancing and burning US flags?
The Taliban ran away like cowards in the early days of the US attack on them. They ran into caves.
They regrouped because the people of Afghanistan were too docile, weak and corrupt to take their destiny in their hands.
What you're claiming now can be equated to mean all the coups that took place in Nigeria were popular since the people do not revolt. Sometimes, the people do feel helpless especially in a diverse country where tribal affiliations take precedence over any cogent ideology.
The US mission was not futile. Osama is dead. The Taliban was decimated and ran like rats into caves. The fact they were allowed to come back by the Afghan forces is not US fault.
It's the docility that Islam brings that has affected them. We can see an example here in Nigeria where a good portion of northerners who are most affected by insurgency and banditry are ready to defend the govt simply because someone they identify with is in charge.

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to defend, even the U.S media and prominent officials are terming it as shameful

Ayaaz:


talk to me about Afghanistan when you read the link i provided

the kings in the North at the time of Usman dan Fodio were pagan? you CLEARLY are ignorant

about Usman dan Fodio's clan being alien to Northern Nigeria, at that time migrations were common and there weren't defined borders like those of nation-states and Hausaland didn't operate like a modern nation-state. You clearly lack knowledge of how Northern Nigeria operates even today

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Usman Fodio's uprising was a popular one supported by the populace

About muslims forcefully converting Afghans, Afghans are a free people and if they want Zoroastrianism, they have the freewill

There's nothing unique about Afghanistan in your link.

Dan Fodio was Fulani in Hausaland. Fulani are not indigenous to the geographical space called Nigeria. I think that is common knowledge.

Here's something for you to chew on about Hausaland during the time of Dan Fodio

Uthman Dan Fodio's appeal to justice and morality rallied the outcasts of Hausa society. He found his followers among the Fulbe and Fulani. The Fulbe and Fulani were primarily cattle pastoralists. These pastoralist communities were led by the clerics living in rural communities who were Fulfude speakers and closely connected to the pastoralists. The Fulani would later hold the most important offices of the new states. Hausa peasants, runaway slaves, itinerant preachers, and others also responded to Uthman's preaching. His jihad served to integrate a number of peoples into a single religio-political movement.[16]

In 1802, Yunfa, the ruler of Gobir and one of dan Fodio's students, turned against him, revoking Degel's autonomy and attempting to assassinate dan Fodio.[17] Dan Fodio and his followers declared hijrah and fled into the western grasslands of Gudu, where they turned for help to the local Fulani nomads. Uthman's followers at this time entitled him Amir al-Mu'minin and sarkin muslim – head of the Muslim community.[18] The rulers of Gobir forbade Muslims to wear turbans and veils, prohibited conversions, and ordered converts to Islam to return to their old religion.[16] In his book Tanbih al-ikhwan 'ala ahwal al-Sudan (“Concerning the Government of Our Country and Neighboring Countries in the Sudan”) Usman wrote: "The government of a country is the government of its king without question. If the king is a Muslim, his land is Muslim; if he is an unbeliever, his land is a land of unbelievers. In these circumstances it is obligatory for anyone to leave it for another country".[19] Usman did exactly this when he left Gobir in 1802. Yunfa then turned for aid to the other leaders of the Hausa states, warning them that dan Fodio could trigger a widespread jihad.[20]

Afghans are not free. They are held bondage in Islam. Why did islamists go there to Islamize them in the first place? I thought what US did was wrong. How come you can't bring yourself to agree what the Islamists who violently converted all of Persia did was wrong as well. Freewill indeed!!
The islamists should have allowed them to choose freely then and not now.

Ayaaz:


I honestly have no idea what you're trying to defend, even the U.S media and prominent officials are terming it as shameful

What is shameful is how the Afghan forces capitulated not US involvement in Afghanistan. What you are rejoicing about is that US failed ultimately and i'm educating that US did not fail. There mission was to get Osama and topple the Taliban regime. They don't want to become an army of occupation. If they wanted to be, they will be in Afghanistan for a long time and nothing will happen.
You're making it sound as if the US Forces ran with their tails between their legs whereas the opposite is the case. They withdrew wilfully and the Taliban took over after their exit.
It's like the exit of the cat making the rat bold. It doesn't mean the rat has won. It simply mean the cat left.

Mind you, the US's main concern is that Afghanistan will become another terrorist enclave. You should be concerned about that too except you support terrorism.

Agboriotejoye:


There's nothing unique about Afghanistan in your link.

Dan Fodio was Fulani in Hausaland. Fulani are not indigenous to the geographical space called Nigeria. I think that is common knowledge.

Here's something for you to chew on about Hausaland during the time of Dan Fodio



Afghans are not free. They are held bondage in Islam. Why did islamists go there to Islamize them in the first place? I thought what US did was wrong. How come you can't bring yourself to agree what the Islamists who violently converted all of Persia did was wrong as well. Freewill indeed!!
The islamists should have allowed them to choose freely then and not now.

oga i'm done