Secularism has become common across the globe, especially in once-religious countries like France and Sweden, even breaking into Nigeria.

I think that the main reason is that we now understand things, which once could only be explained as acts of God.

For most of history many phenomenon could only be explained by God. At one time, thunder and lightning, an earthquake or a plague could only be explained by an angry God. A good harvest was the result of enough prayer. Recovery from serious illness was a miracle. Genetic problems were not understood.

Human brains have developed so that we demand explainations for everything. It has helped us survive and prosper over the millenia.

Now it is a struggle to find anything which requires a belief in God.

We are basically left with (1) where did the Universe come from and (2) what happens after we die.

The answers so far are (1) we don’t have a full understanding on time. We know that time passes at different rates depending on the force of gravity or the speed we travel. That has been proven by experiment. When we fully understand time, we may be on the way to knowing if in some fashion the Universe was always here. Maybe time slowed to a standstill in the distant past. Maybe it is circular. We don’t quite understand it yet. Whatever the reason there is no need for a God to explain it and (2) maybe after we die, we go back to the state before we were born. Again no need for a God.

I would say that people believe in the supernatural because they fear death and losing touch with loved ones who have died. If we did not fear death, there would be no reason to still believe in God.

So, secularism has been increasing as the world becomes more understandable. The gaps in our knowledge are just that - gaps that we will fill. Not reasons to believe in God. So religions have declined.

It might make more sense if you try to imagine someone who doesn’t believe in God and then think of a reason why they would start (apart from wishful thinking for an afterlife).

This generation ain't dumb

Near1:


We are basically left with (1) where did the Universe come from and (2) what happens after we die.

The answers so far are (1) we don’t have a full understanding on time. We know that time passes at different rates depending on the force of gravity or the speed we travel. That has been proven by experiment. When we fully understand time, we may be on the way to knowing if in some fashion the Universe was always here. Maybe time slowed to a standstill in the distant past. Maybe it is circular. We don’t quite understand it yet. Whatever the reason there is no need for a God to explain it.

Well this is largely inaccurate.
There are many things we still have no clue about and some we would probably never have.
And secondly, we do know to a high degree that this universe has not always been here. It does have an ultimate origin

I would say that people believe in the supernatural because they fear death and losing touch with loved ones who have died. If we did not fear death, there would be no reason to still believe in God.

It's fascinating that humans as far back as recorded history have always been obsessed with some form of immortality.
Just something to ponder about, though.

So, secularism has been increasing as the world becomes more understandable. The gaps in our knowledge are just that - gaps that we will fill. Not reasons to believe in God. So religions have declined.

Ok, so this is one of those sayings that are popular on the internet, but are in fact incorrect.

For starters, secularism is not on the rise. That is, if we are defining secularism has having a naturalistic atheistic worldview, as your write-up seems to allude to.

What is on the rise in North America and Western Europe is irreligion. What it means is that there's an uptick in people identifying themselves as not being affiliated with any organized religious organizations. This can range from people who hold religious beliefs and practices but do not identify with any church or mosque to people who hold some type of spirituality or cosmic energy without any defined concept of God or gods and of course it can include those who are agnostic on the matter.

Irreligious or nones should not be confused with materialistic atheism.

Secondly, if we are to define secularism by its more rigorous secularization theory (basically, the historical process in which religion looses it's cultural and social significance), this trend, as alluded to above, only holds true in North America and Western Europe. They are the exception, not the rule.

For the rest of world, religiosity is on the rise.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, mainly due to birth and mortality rates, while Christianity is still holding steadly with world population growth. Other world religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, folk religion etc also have upward trend with world population.

Even in countries that have tried to stamp out religion or are fundamentally Atheistic, the steady rise in religiousity or religious affiliation still holds true. For example, China has been undergoing a religious revival in recent years and might hold the world's largest population of Christians in a few decades to come, by some estimates.

It's worth pointing out that these data mostly show how people identify but doesn't signify if this religiosity or irreligiousity is intrinsic.

Finally, the idea that the world is going to be more secular as we better understand how the world works is just wrong. Humans are complex emotional beings and people lose religious affiliation for a vast array of reasons.(ranging from trauma experiences to the rise in individualism and self-autonomy and everything in-between).
In any case that's a longer conversation on its own.

Thanks to GREECE AND HER ATHENS. SECULARISM STARTED FROM GREECE MOVED TO ITALY AND ROME. SECULARISM CAUSED ATHEISM TO DEVELOP IN ATHENS IN OPPOSITION TO GODISTS.

jamesid29:

Well this is largely inaccurate.
There are many things we still have no clue about and some we would probably never have.
And secondly, we do know to a high degree that this universe has not always been here. It does have an ultimate origin


It's fascinating that humans as far back as recorded history have always been obsessed with some form of immortality.
Just something to ponder about, though.


Ok, so this is one of those sayings that are popular on the internet, but are in fact incorrect.

For starters, secularism is not on the rise. That is, if we are defining secularism has having a naturalistic atheistic worldview, as your write-up seems to allude to.

What is on the rise in North America and Western Europe is irreligion. What it means is that there's an uptick in people identifying themselves as not being affiliated with any organized religious organizations. This can range from people who hold religious beliefs and practices but do not identify with any church or mosque to people who hold some type of spirituality or cosmic energy without any defined concept of God or gods and of course it can include those who are agnostic on the matter.

Irreligious or nones should not be confused with materialistic atheism.

Secondly, if we are to define secularism by its more rigorous secularization theory (basically, the historical process in which religion looses it's cultural and social significance), this trend, as alluded to above, only holds true in North America and Western Europe. They are the exception, not the rule.

For the rest of world, religiosity is on the rise.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, mainly due to birth and mortality rates, while Christianity is still holding steadly with world population growth. Other world religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, folk religion etc also have upward trend with world population.

Even in countries that have tried to stamp out religion or are fundamentally Atheistic, the steady rise in religiousity or religious affiliation still holds true. For example, China has been undergoing a religious revival in recent years and might hold the world's largest population of Christians in a few decades to come, by some estimates.

It's worth pointing out that these data mostly show how people identify but doesn't signify if this religiosity or irreligiousity is intrinsic.

Finally, the idea that the world is going to be more secular as we better understand how the world works is just wrong. Humans are complex emotional beings and people lose religious affiliation for a vast array of reasons.(ranging from trauma experiences to the rise in individualism and self-autonomy and everything in-between).
In any case that's a longer conversation on its own.

While I appreciate the detailed rebuttal of the OP, there's still not a lot here. You allude to “array of reasons” towards the end of your post, but don’t name them. I'm sure anyone who is conversant with these discussions has been over these major themes. Maybe pick one of these “reasons” and back it up with some data and draw some conclusions from your experience.

Thanks

Near1:

While I appreciate the detailed rebuttal of the OP, there's still not a lot here. You allude to “array of reasons” towards the end of your post, but don’t name them. I'm sure anyone who is conversant with these discussions has been over these major themes. Maybe pick one of these “reasons” and back it up with some data and draw some conclusions from your experience.

I'm not sure what you mean by there's not alot here sir. As I've pointed out; The central and core premise of the OP is in fact incorrect. The world is not becoming less religious but rather it is becoming more religiously diverse.

But if you are more interested in having a conversation on why people walk away from religion or religious affiliation, I'm happy to have a conversation on that.

jamesid29:

I'm not sure what you mean by there's not alot here sir. As I've pointed out; The central and core premise of the OP is in fact incorrect. The world is not becoming less religious but rather it is becoming more religiously diverse.

But if you are more interested in having a conversation on why people walk away from religion or religious affiliation, I'm happy to have a conversation on that.

I have no idea why you think the world will become religiously diverse. Non-religious has been rising rapidly recently. I think the growth in Muslim population will slow because they literally threaten apostates now, that’s not sustainable. So far, you have not supported your arguments with data or citations, so, not sure how interesting this conversation will be. Plus, people may currently call themselves Christians, but they wouldn’t pass in a church from just a few decades ago. People may say they are “culturally” a certain religion, but they don’t really practice

Near1:

I have no idea why you think the world will become religiously diverse. Non-religious has been rising rapidly recently. I think the growth in Muslim population will slow because they literally threaten apostates now, that’s not sustainable.

So far, you have not supported your arguments with data or citations, so, not sure how interesting this conversation will be. Plus, people may currently call themselves Christians, but they wouldn’t pass in a church from just a few decades ago. People may say they are “culturally” a certain religion, but they don’t really practice

Religion can be shown in different ways



There is no right way to practice any religion



All religious person claim to be practicing it the right way.



All claim to be special or different


All claim to possess knowledge and understanding.


All claim to have encounters with Jesus , Allah,etc.



All claim Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla



Life is absurd.

Near1:

I have no idea why you think the world will become religiously diverse. Non-religious has been rising rapidly recently.

As I mentioned in my previous replies, it seems you are conflating the rise of the religious unaffiliated or "nones" with a total lack of religion or Atheism.
As I mentioned previously

jamesid29:
What is on the rise in North America and Western Europe is irreligion. What it means is that there's an uptick in people identifying themselves as not being affiliated with any organized religious organizations. This can range from people who hold religious beliefs and practices but do not identify with any church or mosque to people who hold some type of spirituality or cosmic energy without any defined concept of God or gods and of course it can include those who are agnostic on the matter.

Or if you like you can read of the pew report:

However, a new survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life, conducted jointly with the PBS television program Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly, finds that many of the country’s 46 million unaffiliated adults are religious or spiritual in some way. Two-thirds of them say they believe in God (68%). More than half say they often feel a deep connection with nature and the earth (58%), while more than a third classify themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” (37%), and one-in-five (21%) say they pray every day. In addition, most religiously unaffiliated Americans think that churches and other religious institutions benefit society by strengthening community bonds and aiding the poor.

With few exceptions, though, the unaffiliated say they are not looking for a religion that would be right for them. Overwhelmingly, they think that religious organizations are too concerned with money and power, too focused on rules and too involved in politics.
https://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/

I think it would be great if you could read through what the data is really stating and what the terms entails. It seems you are filtering it through a particular lens.

Secondly, what I mean by the world is becoming more diverse is that alongside the population growth, religious diversity is also increasing. From Islam to Hinduism to Judaism, to folk religions and so on, the population of adherents of these faith are increasing. Also with the rise of the religiously unaffiliated especially in the west, more people are choosing to define or redefine how they relate to the divine or the metaphysical on a personal level without adhering to the dictates of any organized religion.
To borrow from hellvictorinho's reply

Religion can be shown in different ways
There is no right way to practice any religion

That's a major sentiment amongst the younger population today especially in the west.
This does not mean people are less religious, it just shows that there's an unprecedented diversity in how people chose to express their connection with the metaphysical.

I think the growth in Muslim population will slow because they literally threaten apostates now, that’s not sustainable.

The keyword word here is the @bolded "You think". Its okay to make assumptions (we all do) but that does not necessarily mean our assumptions are true. It is true that some people are still Muslims due to fear for their lives and property but that does not mean the vast majority of Muslims today do not believe that Islam is intrinsically true or that they are coarsed to remain Muslims. It would be hard to make such a case. Also looking at Islam in the west where apostasy laws do not apply or in Asia and the east where there's a concentration of prosecuted Muslims, it's a lot easier to make the point that many people chose to stay in Islam because they believe it is intrinsically true for them.
So would a more religiously free world slow down the rate of Islam's population growth? Probably..

Would it slow it down considerably to make it not the most dominant religion in the world in a few decades? Probably not.
At the moment Islam is projected to grow by about twice the rate of global population growth mainly due to fertility and mortality rates.
If there is to be major shift in this, it would probably come by a plethora of things and not just one thing.

So far, you have not supported your arguments with data or citations.

Neither have you though.

The difference is, nothing I've said so far is hard to check or even remotely controversial. Most of what I've written can be found on the very first page of a quick Google search. From your replies also, it does seem you are privy to these same informations, just that
a) you seem to be misunderstanding what the information is actually stating,eg collapsing the religious unaffiliated with Atheism as one and the same thing. And
b) it does seem like you are filtering these informations through some specific set of assumptions that are not necessarily true. E.g it's possible that the Universe was always here.

Plus, people may currently call themselves Christians, but they wouldn’t pass in a church from just a few decades ago. People may say they are “culturally” a certain religion, but they don’t really practice

I'm no sure I understand what you mean by " they wouldn’t pass in a church from just a few decades ago" though.
But to the crux of the matter, I did make mention of the limitations of these polls in my first reply

jamesid29:
It's worth pointing out that these data mostly show how people identify but doesn't signify if this religiosity or irreligiousity is intrinsic.

This does affect all sides.

Again almost everything I've written above are neither controversial or remotely hard to verify. But I don't think the major issues are the information themselves but it's how you're choosing to parse the information.