Barristter07:




The bold is the plain Truth. The crossed out phrase was inserted by you to save your shame. And I will show you why it's not scriptural in the next message .



John 4:23 says True Worshippers will worship the Father.

According to you, To reserve Worship for Jehovah alone is to be a child of Satan. You just categorized Jesus as a child of certain for saying that is exactly what true worshippers will do.

Jesus expose you for saying honor and worship when applied to the Father means the same thing. If they meant the same thing , John 5:23 would not have said the son should be honored like the Father since Worship is reserved for only the Father.

John 5: 22-23 shows u r a son of perdition, satan, a filthy scum and dog of satan.

If the Honor given to Jehovah amounts to worship of him, no wonder he says give that same level of honour to his son which also amounts to worship of the son.

Now it makes sense why Jesus never condemned those who worshiped him. You are getting free meat of scripture. I hope u are learning

MaxInDHouse:
You can learn the truth only when you're open minded but when you've gotten some preconceived thought/opinion then no matter what you see you'll continue to support your opinion!

All what you quoted are the works of trinitarians who misinterpreted God's word, the word they translated into WORSHIP means HONOUR or OBEISANCE just as King Nebuchadnezzar did before Daniel! Daniel 2:46

Of course what the King did there should be called WORSHIP because apart from bowing before Daniel the King offered presents and INCENSE to Daniel!

Now ask yourself is Daniel Jehovah?
Did Jehovah asked anyone to worship Daniel?

People often honour anyone through whom God performs supernatural signs that's exactly what those people did before Jesus.
But God Himself said from heaven:

“This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5b

Note that JEHOVAH didn't say "worship him" rather what He said was "listen to him" and since Jesus himself has spoken saying his father is the one to be worshiped whoever think that worshiping Jesus will earn them a favour are threading on the part of destruction! Matthew 15:9

Barristter07:

Daniel was worshipped too, I guess he is God .

" Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him. " - Daniel 2:46 King James Bible


The same Greek word was applied to other humans but worship wasn't used, it was translated differently , why ?

That answer will tell you why what you quote above is a wrong translation. And if you say Daniel 2:46 quoted above is wrong, say why

Barristter07:


Honor not worship. Are you guys ignorant of English language ?

Lol. There's really no convincing you people. Your minds are already set. The truth is glaringly obvious but i can't discern why you can't see it. omo I'm tired of arguing.. It is leading nowhere..

I'll leave you with one last food for thought... Why would Jesus say in John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."'?

He is in essence saying that He existed before Abraham who was born (physically) before Him thousands of years earlier.

Think about it... who else is referred to as I AM in the whole Bible besides God Himself?

I wish you the very best in all that you believe.. have a nice life.

freshboi88:


John 5: 22-23 shows u r a son of perdition, satan, a filthy scum and dog of satan.

If the Honor given to Jehovah amounts to worship of him, no wonder he says give that same level of honour to his son which also amounts to worship of the son.

Now it makes sense why Jesus never condemned those who worshiped him. You are getting free meat of scripture. I hope u are learning

The dictionary and Greek concordance did not help you. You form your own idea, honor= worship. And Jesus replied that the idea is False . It makes you a False worshipper.

True worshipper worship THE FATHER
Not Father and son.

John 4:23

I hope you learn

Hismasterpiece:


Lol. There's really no convincing you people. Your minds are already set. The truth is glaringly obvious but i can't discern why you can't see it. omo I'm tired of arguing.. It is leading nowhere..

Daniel was worshipped according to the same translation you cherish,Daniel 2:46. Is that a wrong translation?

Am sure you didn't read a thing, if you do you would have saw that the only point of my quoting you was to point out that True worshippers worship the Father. John 4:23

Not Father and son. So which means all translation that use worship for people postrating to Jesus are misled, they should have done the same thing they did to others by using something else aside worship.

I'll leave you with one last food for thought... Why would Jesus say in John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."'?

He is in essence saying that He existed before Abraham who was born (physically) before Him thousands of years earlier.

Think about it... who else is referred to as I AM in the whole Bible besides God Himself?

I wish you the very best in all that you believe.. have a nice life.

An Angel identify himself as "I am" too. He must be God Almighty right ?

That's why i often round up all their nonsense by asking them to PRESENT a better performing group than JWs.
Let them PRESENT the WORKS of their God because our own God is still WORKING! John 5:17; James 2:18-26

Barristter07:

Daniel was worshipped according to the same translation you cherish,Daniel 2:46. Is that a wrong translation?
Am sure you didn't read a thing, if you do you would have saw that the only point of my quoting you was to point out that True worshippers worship the Father. John 4:23
Not Father and son. So which means all translation that use worship for people postrating to Jesus are misled, they should have done the same thing they did to others by using something else aside worship.
An Angel identify himself as "I am" too. He must be God Almighty right ?

Barristter07:


The dictionary and Greek concordance did not help you. You form your own idea, honor= worship. And Jesus replied that the idea is False . It makes you a False worshipper.

True worshipper worship THE FATHER
Not Father and son.

John 4:23

I hope you learn

Olodo!!!! You couldn't separate honour n worship of Jehovah.

Now that level of honour which u give to Jehovah. He demands that u give it to Jesus cos that's the only way to honour him.

If u sing praises to honour Jehovah, sing praises to Jesus

If u bow before Jehovah to honor Jehovah also bow to Jesus to honor him

If u sings songs of thanksgiving to Jehovah to honour him then do d same to Jesus

Cos as we see singing praises to Jesus, bowing down to him and praying to him as a sign of honor is not idolatry but it is same as honoring Jehovah.

Just do that...u can do all that and deceive yourself that u don't worship Jesus nah u wahala be that.

But pray to Jesus, sing his praises, sing songs of thanksgiving to him Jehovah demands you to do that cos when u do u r also honoring and worshipping Jehovah

freshboi88:


<sub>Olodo!!!! You couldn't separate honour n worship of Jehovah.

Now that level of honour which u give to Jehovah. He demands that u give it to Jesus cos that's the only way to honour him.

If u sing praises to honour Jehovah, sing praises to Jesus

If u bow before Jehovah to honor Jehovah also bow to Jesus to honor him

If u sings songs of thanksgiving to Jehovah to honour him then do d same to Jesus

Cos as we see singing praises to Jesus, bowing down to him and praying to him as a sign of honor is not idolatry but it is same as honoring Jehovah.

Just do that...u can do all that and deceive yourself that u don't worship Jesus nah u wahala be that.

But pray to Jesus, sing his praises, sing songs of thanksgiving to him Jehovah demands you to do that cos when u do u r also honoring and worshipping Jehovah</sub>

In all sincerity, I don't feel your point makes any validity as to Jesus being equal to god in all aspects just because it says to honor him as you do to God.
The point in John isn't qualifiying the word 'honor' as being of equal value in all contexts.
Honor doesn't mean equality on all levels.

You might want to use your dictionary and check the meaning of both . You findings might WOW you

5:22 Wives, be subject to your husbands just as you are to the Lord.
6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ

Following your logic
Husbands and God are equal since they both demands same subjection?
Earthly masters are coequal with christ too?

freshboi88:


Olodo!!!! You couldn't separate honour n worship of Jehovah.

Now that level of honour which u give to Jehovah. He demands that u give it to Jesus cos that's the only way to honour him.

If u sing praises to honour Jehovah, sing praises to Jesus

If u bow before Jehovah to honor Jehovah also bow to Jesus to honor him

If u sings songs of thanksgiving to Jehovah to honour him then do d same to Jesus

Cos as we see singing praises to Jesus, bowing down to him and praying to him as a sign of honor is not idolatry but it is same as honoring Jehovah.

Just do that...u can do all that and deceive yourself that u don't worship Jesus nah u wahala be that.

But pray to Jesus, sing his praises, sing songs of thanksgiving to him Jehovah demands you to do that cos when u do u r also honoring and worshipping Jehovah

I love how am making your blood boil, now you shifted ground, this below is what you said earlier.

" If the Honor given to Jehovah amounts to worship of him, no wonder he says give that same level of honour to his son which also amounts to worship of the son . " - freshboi88


Any form of honor that amounts to worship of the Son iS WRONG. True worshippers give their worship only to the Father John 4:23

May I remind you again young man, No Greek concordance or English dictionary support your assertion of honor and worship. Quite pathetic you know ?

If you people kill my freshboi with all these tough comments i sabi una house o!

Barristter07:


Daniel was worshipped according to the same translation you cherish,Daniel 2:46. Is that a wrong translation?

Am sure you didn't read a thing, if you do you would have saw that the only point of my quoting you was to point out that True worshippers worship the Father. John 4:23

Not Father and son. So which means all translation that use worship for people postrating to Jesus are misled, they should have done the same thing they did to others by using something else aside worship.




An Angel identify himself as "I am" too. He must be God Almighty right ?

Which angel please. Show me the scripture.

Hismasterpiece:


Which angel please. Show me the scripture.

" And Manoah arose and went after his wife and came to the man and said to him, “Are you the man who spoke to this woman?” And he said, “I am.” " Judges 13:11

Is the angel God Almighty for claiming I AM ?


Secondly you haven't said anything about Daniel being worshipped and if it means he is God Almighty.

haddeylium:



In all sincerity, I don't feel your point makes any validity as to Jesus being equal to god in all aspects just because it says to honor him as you do to God.
The point in John isn't qualifiying the word 'honor' as being of equal value in all contexts.
Honor doesn't mean equality on all levels.

You might want to use your dictionary and check the meaning of both . You findings might WOW you

5:22 Wives, be subject to your husbands just as you are to the Lord.
6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ

Following your logic
Husbands and God are equal since they both demands same subjection?
Earthly masters are coequal with christ too?

You will have to do better than this.

John 5:23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him

@bold is where the equality comes in. In your reference verses no where does it say not submitting to your husband does not submit to God.



He that does not honour the Son - He that does not believe on him, and render to him the homage which is his due as the equal of God.

Does not honour Father - Does not worship and obey the Father the First Person of the Trinity - that is does not worship God. He may imagine that he worships God, but there is no God but the God subsisting as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He that withholds proper homage from one, withholds it from all.

Now this is the proper context and the equality is clearly defined.

He that should refuse to honor "the Father," could not be said to honor "God;" and in the like manner, he that honoreth not "the Son," honoreth not "the Father."

Barristter07:


I love how am making your blood boil, now you shifted ground, this below is what you said earlier.

" If the Honor given to Jehovah amounts to worship of him, no wonder he says give that same level of honour to his son which also amounts to worship of the son . " - freshboi88


Any form of honor that amounts to worship of the Son iS WRONG. True worshippers give their worship only to the Father John 4:23

May I remind you again young man, No Greek concordance or English dictionary support your assertion of honor and worship. Quite pathetic you know ?

He that does not honour the Son - He that does not believe on him, and render to him the homage which is his due as the equal of God.

Does not honour Father - Does not worship and obey the Father the First Person of the Trinity - that is does not worship God. He may imagine that he worships God, but there is no God but the God subsisting as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He that withholds proper homage from one, withholds it from all.

Now this is the proper context and the equality is clearly defined.

Barristter07:


" And Manoah arose and went after his wife and came to the man and said to him, “Are you the man who spoke to this woman?” And he said, “I am.” " Judges 13:11

Is the angel God Almighty for claiming I AM ?


Secondly you haven't said anything about Daniel being worshipped and if it means he is God Almighty.

That's a different context. That's like someone asking me whether I am a man and I reply by saying 'I am'.

The context in which Jesus said I am is different. In His context He's simply implying a status of divinity.

As for the Daniel passage. The truth is obvious.

Look, just keep on believing as you have. I'm tired of arguing. I hope one day you'll learn the truth. And if you don't, well, na you Sabi.

Peace, brother!

Hismasterpiece:


That's a different context. That's like someone asking me whether I am a man and I reply by saying 'I am'.

The context in which Jesus said I am is different. In His context He's simply implying a status of divinity.

It's clear that you have very little knowledge of the subject you dived into. This is the I AM of Exodus 3:14 the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus is a servant of the God of Abraham - Act 3:13

So Jesus too wasn't claiming to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He only replied a question about his Age .

As for the Daniel passage. The truth is obvious.

Look, just keep on believing as you have. I'm tired of arguing. I hope one day you'll learn the truth. And if you don't, well, na you Sabi.

Peace, brother!

What is the truth that is obvious in the Daniel passage ?

Wrong translation abi?

Every translation that uses worship for Jesus too is a wrong translation . No be me talk am, John 4:23 said it. True worshippers worship only the Father.

Hismasterpiece:

That's a different context. That's like someone asking me whether I am a man and I reply by saying 'I am'.

The context in which Jesus said I am is different. In His context He's simply implying a status of divinity.

As for the Daniel passage. The truth is obvious.

Look, just keep on believing as you have. I'm tired of arguing. I hope one day you'll learn the truth. And if you don't, well, na you Sabi.

Peace, brother!

The highlighted is a wrong concept!

The Jews has been expecting the Messiah and since John the baptist declared himself as the one who will prepare the way for the Messiah they shouldn't doubt Jesus who appeared later and began fulfilling the role of the Messiah.

That's what Jesus meant by saying "I AM HE" meaning "I am the Messiah (Christ) you people have been expecting" John even sent his disciples to go and confirm from Jesus later to be sure that his own assignment is over {Matthew 11:2-3} and Jesus sent John's disciples back to tell him that he is already fulfilling the role of the Christ! Matthew 11:4-6


The Jews were confused and doubting because two Jewish zealots rose before Jesus' time claiming they are the Messiah (Christ) but they both died miserably and their followers scattered! Act 5:36-37

So for Jesus to utter such a statement he meant that he is the true Messiah the nation of Israel were expecting!

freshboi88:

He that does not honour the Son - He that does not believe on him, and render to him the homage which is his due as the equal of God.

Does not honour Father - Does not worship and obey the Father the First Person of the Trinity - that is does not worship God. He may imagine that he worships God, but there is no God but the God subsisting as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He that withholds proper homage from one, withholds it from all.

Now this is the proper context and the equality is clearly defined.

False Worshippers : We worship the Father, Son, Holy spirit

True worshippers : Worship the Father . ( John 4:23)

It's clear where you belong.

Barristter07:


It's clear that you have very little knowledge of the subject you dived into. This is the I AM of Exodus 3:14 the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus is a servant of the God of Abraham - Act 3:13

So Jesus too wasn't claiming to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He only replied a question about his Age .



What is the truth that is obvious in the Daniel passage ?

Wrong translation abi?

Every translation that uses worship for Jesus too is a wrong translation . No be me talk am, John 4:23 said it. True worshippers worship only the Father.

LOL.. If you look at the scriptures the 'I am' in judges isn't capitalized.. But the ones in Exodus and John are, thus confirming that they are the same kind of 'I am'.

See ehn... Just keep believing what you believe abeg.. Let this argument end..

The Bible says knowledge puffs up but love edifies... I have come to realised that my intention in this argument isn't edification, but rather trying to prove I am right and you are wrong, and therefore, it isn't glorifying God or pleasing to Him.

So please, for the sake of peace, just continue the way you are going.. When you appear before Jesus as your judge you'll give an account of yourself to Him.. So just continue the way you are..

Barristter07:


False Worshippers : We worship the Father, Son, Holy spirit

True worshippers : Worship the Father . ( John 4:23)

It's clear where you belong.

No be me talk am...no be my fault say nah so Bible talk am

No wonder in the same John 5 scripture tells us

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

The son can do everything the father can do.....hahaha...Mr JW, there are too many places your teaching cannot explain ooooo.

because u r all liars like your father the devil

freshboi88:


No be me talk am...no be my fault say nah so Bible talk am

No wonder in the same John 5 scripture tells us

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

The son can do everything the father can do.....hahaha...Mr JW, there are too many places your teaching cannot explain ooooo.

because u r all liars like your father the devil

The highlighted is another trouble o!

MaxInDHouse:


The highlighted is a wrong concept!

The Jews has been expecting the Messiah and since John the baptist declared himself as the one who will prepare the way for the Messiah they shouldn't doubt Jesus who appeared later and began fulfilling the role of the Messiah.

That's what Jesus meant by saying "I AM HE" meaning "I am the Messiah (Christ) you people have been expecting" John even sent his disciples to go and confirm from Jesus later to be sure that his own assignment is over {Matthew 11:2-3} and Jesus sent John's disciples back to tell him that he is already fulfilling the role of the Christ! Matthew 11:4-6


The Jews were confused and doubting because two Jewish zealots rose before Jesus' time claiming they are the Messiah (Christ) but they both died miserably and their followers scattered! Act 5:36-37

So for Jesus to utter such a statement he meant that he is the true Messiah the nation of Israel were expecting!

Works-man,
You mean that we can rephrase what Jesus said as 'Before Abraham was I am the Messiah (Christ) you people have been expecting'
Clap for yourself!!

I think you were too quick to respond to what Hismasterpiece wrote. Go back to it. It shouldn't just be to argue for argument sake; should it. Even when your opponent is right in some instance give it to him.

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
Works-man,
You mean that we can rephrase what Jesus said as 'Before Abraham was I am the Messiah (Christ) you people have been expecting'
Clap for yourself!!

I think you were too quick to respond to what Hismasterpiece wrote. Go back to it. It shouldn't just be to argue for argument sake; should it. Even when your opponent is right in some instance give it to him.

Thank you very much for that statement! It is a very wise statement.

MaxInDHouse:


The highlighted is another trouble o!

The highlighted does stop the Son from doing whatever the Father can do.....hehehe........who is the joke on now?

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
Works-man,
You mean that we can rephrase what Jesus said as 'Before Abraham was I am the Messiah (Christ) you people have been expecting'
Clap for yourself!!

I think you were too quick to respond to what Hismasterpiece wrote. Go back to it. It shouldn't just be to argue for argument sake; should it. Even when your opponent is right in some instance give it to him.

In that context Jesus means he existed before Abraham and that has been settled in the Bible book of Proverbs 8:22-31 compare to John 1:1, but he is not the I AM at Exodus though he was with the I AM in the beginning! John 1:2

MaxInDHouse:


In that context Jesus means he existed before Abraham and that has been settled in the Bible book of Proverbs 8:22-31 compare to John 1:1, but he is not the I AM at Exodus though he was with the I AM in the beginning! John 1:2

Which I AM at Exodus are you referring to?

Hismasterpiece:


LOL.. If you look at the scriptures the 'I am' in judges isn't capitalized.. But the ones in Exodus and John are, thus confirming that they are the same kind of 'I am'.

See ehn... Just keep believing what you believe abeg.. Let this argument end..

The Bible says knowledge puffs up but love edifies... I have come to realised that my intention in this argument isn't edification, but rather trying to prove I am right and you are wrong, and therefore, it isn't glorifying God or pleasing to Him.

So please, for the sake of peace, just continue the way you are going.. When you appear before Jesus as your judge you'll give an account of yourself to Him.. So just continue the way you are..

Did you just wrote the bold ?

I can see you lack knowledge of this things totally, If by now you don't know the capitalization of texts were done by English translators and not bible writers. Your case is pathetic

freshboi88:


No be me talk am...no be my fault say nah so Bible talk am

No wonder in the same John 5 scripture tells us

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

The son can do everything the father can do.....hahaha...Mr JW, there are too many places your teaching cannot explain ooooo.

because u r all liars like your father the devil

How exactly does this say True worshippers worship Father, son and holy spirit ?

Barristter07:



Did you just wrote the bold ?

I can see you lack knowledge of this things totally, If by now you don't know the capitalization of texts were done by English translators and not bible writers. Your case is pathetic

needless argument barrister,

John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Should Jesus be worshiped?
Yes, because he is God.

There is nothing the father has that does not belong to Jesus.
Whatever you ascribe to the father is also true of the son.

Barristter07:


How exactly does this say True worshippers worship Father, son and holy spirit ?

He doesnt need to say it because whatever belongs to the father also belongs to Jesus.

Joh 16:15  All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


"all things that the Father has" includes worship



if Jesus was not equal to Father, He could not have
said this without blaspheming

johnw47:

Joh 16:15  All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
"all things that the Father has" includes worship
if Jesus was not equal to Father, He could not have said this without blaspheming

Mark 12:29-30
John 14:28
John 20:17

With these three verses Jesus meant there's something the father doesn't share with him or anyone else {Isaiah 42:8} please can you say that single thing that makes the father differ from the son?
In my own conclusion i think it's the WORSHIP because Jesus often emphasize the greatness of his father and how to worship his father but the father alone seems to be the one and only PERSON in the receiving end:

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under, him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under, him, that God may be all in all! 1Corinthians 15:27-28

Something is missing in all of these and i think it's the WORSHIP that makes the difference between the Father and his Son!

Barristter07:


How exactly does this say True worshippers worship Father, son and holy spirit ?

All these are pointers God has shown u to reveal who Jesus truly is.

You say Jesus is not God....so how does he have the capability to do everything Jehovah can do ?