victorazy:


Many ways Jesus indirectly told He is father in human form.

Jesus is God himself.

Interesting so from the verses I quoted, do we say Jesus saw and learnt from the things he saw himself do?

That does not seem to make much sense. Or how would you interpret it

Brightale:
LOL, Jesus is God, The spirit of God left him, that's why God the Father left him. Meaning God didn't Know that some people will try to kill him by crucification.

God knowing his death won't warrant Him (God) to remain in his body when the sins of the word is on him. God is pure and don't behold sin.

Just the same way we human plan and schedule our ways to achieve a goal.

Am an insider who planned a kidnap doesn't mean i must follow go and collect the ransome I go maintain.

Kobojunkie:
1. You need to get a translation of the Bible in a language you can more easily understand.
God shows Him, Jesus Christ, what He the Father Wills to happen, and He Jesus Christ in turn submits to and does the Father's Will.

So, no, God did not first suffer and die for man before Jesus Christ did. Instead God Willed it that Jesus Christ will suffer and die, Jesus Christ in obedience submitted to doing the Will of the Father.

So if Jesus is subjected to God's will and is obedient to God, Where is the Co-equality claimed in Trinity?

UsmanBabaIdris:

So if Jesus is subjected to God's will and is obedient to God, Where is the Co-equality claimed in Trinity?

Well, I don't believe in the Trinity doctrine formulated by men. What I stated their is the role Jesus Christ occupies as the one who is Lord, Master, and Ruler over all those who belong to His Flock - the Kingdom of God. He is God over us all.

tctrills:

Interesting so from the verses I quoted, do we say Jesus saw and learnt from the things he saw himself do?

That does not seem to make much sense. Or how would you interpret it

You cannot explain the ways of God.

In the heaven, Jesus is the word that comes out of God but later is was made flesh "Jesus".
But before then, God communicated to man directly, later that word was made flesh to come and teach the word to the world not to be heard by some eg. Moses, Pa Elijah etc.

That word is God himself, he has been there, he witnessed all, he created all, thats why Jesus told Satan " Don't temp Lord your God".

tctrills:

I don't understand, are you sating that in another version of the bible, it says differently.
If so, which version would we believe? Also, could you please tell me the name of the other version you are talking about?
I would love to read from a different bible and compare. Hopefully that wouldn't increase confusion.

You first need to asked yourself WHERE DID THE DIFFERENT BIBLES and VERSIONS CAME FROM?
God cannot be the author of all the different Versions!

Kobojunkie:
Well, I don't believe in the Trinity doctrine formulated by men. What I stated their is the role Jesus Christ occupies as the one who is Lord, Master, and Ruler over all those who belong to His Flock - the Kingdom of God. He is God over us all.

In this case, All the Trinitarian Christians are in error?

UsmanBabaIdris:

You first need to asked yourself WHERE DID THE DIFFERENT BIBLES and VERSIONS CAME FROM?
God cannot be the author of all the different Versions!

Stop diving into matter that is beyond your comprehension my brother.

Versions of Bible is interpretation based on understanding and to create effective communication, it doesn't mean God spoked in different versions. The main translation of Bible is in Hebrew language and me and you cant read Hebrew, or do we?

Kobojunkie:
Well, I don't believe in the Trinity doctrine formulated by men. What I stated their is the role Jesus Christ occupies as the one who is Lord, Master, and Ruler over all those who belong to His Flock - the Kingdom of God. He is God over us all.

in this case, all the Christian world in support of Trinity are in error.
Besides, Jesus never claimed to be God over anyone, unless you have an evidence to that regard.

UsmanBabaIdris:

in this case, all the Christian world in support of Trinity are in error.
Besides, Jesus never claimed to be God over anyone, unless you have an evidence to that regard.

Well, Jesus Christ warned of false doctrines did He not.

Well, Jesus Christ did tell you that He and the Father are one. And He also called you to Trust in, and Obey Him - bow to Him - where God is the only one who put to have that honor in the life of men. So a curious person would inquire as to why Jesus Christ is to the same treatment that ought to be given only to God over our very own souls. And if you believe. . He reveals to you that He is God's very own Law, the Word out of God's very own mouth and so when you bow to Him, You bow to God Himself.

UsmanBabaIdris:

in this case, all the Christian world in support of Trinity are in error.
Besides, Jesus never claimed to be God over anyone, unless you have an evidence to that regard.

I told you to stop talking what you don't know. Is obvious your Muslim.
There are many verses in the bible where Jesus indirectly told us He is God himself.

He even went ahead to tell that He is the ONLY WAY the truth and life (not Muhammed) or any other demigod.

victorazy:


Stop diving into matter that is beyond your comprehension my brother.

Versions of Bible is interpretation based on understanding and to create effective communication, it doesn't mean God spoked in different versions. The main translation of Bible is in Hebrew language and me and you cant read Hebrew, or do we?

The problem of the Bible is more than translation, and you yourself knows that. A mere looking of those inconsistent verses shows that they are direct work of human alterations and inclusions in the word of God.
For example, where is the verse of 1 John 5:7 in modern versions even though it is still in king James version?
The king James version and versions like NIV and RSV are inconsistent to each other.
Besides, if translation is for effective communication, then the purpose is already defeated.
Seek for the Original Bible in whatever language it might be. There is no any language on earth that cannot be studied.

UsmanBabaIdris:

The problem of the Bible is more than translation, and you yourself knows that. A mere looking of those inconsistent verses shows that they are direct work of human alterations and inclusions in the word of God.
For example, where is the verse of 1 John 5:7 in modern versions even though it is still in king James version?
The king James version and versions like NIV and RSV are inconsistent to each other.
Besides, if translation is for effective communication, then the purpose is already defeated.
Seek for the Original Bible in whatever language it might be. There is no any language on earth that cannot be studied.

My friend, there is no irregularities or inconsistency in Bible, you the reader is the one that has problem. Word of God is word of God and it standeth forever.

Please screenshot them let us see and I will teach how they are not.

victorazy:


I told you to stop talking what you don't know. Is obvious your Muslim.
There are many verses in the bible where Jesus indirectly told us He is God himself.

He even went ahead to tell that He is the ONLY WAY the truth and life (not Muhammed) or any other demigod.

The Verses you quote still didn't serve the purpose.
Where did Jesus proclaimed that "I am God"?

When you quote John 14:9 "... he that has seen me has seen the father". What will you then say when Jesus said in John 1:8 "no man has seen God at any time.’" (John 1:18)
If seeing Jesus is seeing God, then who was the disciples looking at in this scenario: Jesus or God?

The Verse of John 1:1 is a misquotation of the Greek scripture. go and check other versions and see progressive differences in words and meaning of that verse. Beside, the book of Genesis gave us a look at the beginning of creation which is quite distinct from that of John 1:1.

Lastly, Jesus being the only way to the father doesn't mean he is also the father. It only mean the people will only be guided by following him and his teachings. Just like the only way to success in school is to Study.

Remember what Jesus said in Mathew 7:21
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven".

I am a proud Muslim!

victorazy:


God knowing his death won't warrant Him (God) to remain in his body when the sins of the word is on him. God is pure and don't behold sin.

Just the same way we human plan and schedule our ways to achieve a goal.

Am an insider who planned a kidnap doesn't mean i must follow go and collect the ransome I go maintain.

God and Jesus are the same person, yes isn't it?
God planned and knows everything, yes isn't it?
Then God send himself/part of himself to die for our sins, true isn't it?
Then Jesus, which you claimed to be God that planned everything cried when they were about to kill him, he cried to a greater power to save him! Remember God knows about the sin and everything.

Kobojunkie:
Well, Jesus Christ warned of false doctrines did He not.

Well, Jesus Christ did tell you that He and the Father are one. And He also called you to Trust in, and Obey Him - bow to Him - where God is the only one who put to have that honor in the life of men. So a curious person would inquire as to why Jesus Christ is to the same treatment that ought to be given only to God over our very own souls. And if you believe. . He reveals to you that He is God's very own Law, the Word out of God's very own mouth and so when you bow to Him, You bow to God Himself.

There is no anywhere in the Bible where Jesus ordered anybody to bow to him. Absolute obedience and bowing is for God alone.
Please good and to the book of Romans 14:11
"For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

tctrills:

I don't understand, are you sating that in another version of the bible, it says differently.
If so, which version would we believe? Also, could you please tell me the name of the other version you are talking about?
I would love to read from a different bible and compare. Hopefully that wouldn't increase confusion.

NEW WORLD TRANSLATION it uses simple easy to understand english.

UsmanBabaIdris:

There is no anywhere in the Bible where Jesus ordered anybody to bow to him. Absolute obedience and bowing is for God alone.
Please good and to the book of Romans 14:11
"For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

Ok.

victorazy:


My friend, there is no irregularities or inconsistency in Bible, you the reader is the one that has problem. Word of God is word of God and it standeth forever.

Please screenshot them let us see and I will teach how they are not.

If word of God stand forever, then why is the verse of 1 John 5:7 removed from modern versions and claimed to be false and fabricated?
It is obvious you are a victim of blind faith which even the Bible renounced. In the book of 1 Thessalonians 5:12, the Bible says:
"Prove all things..." (1 Thess. 5:12)
So what have you proved to show that the current Bible is the word of God, even though you know that it is written by multiple hands most of whom are unknown.

secondly, if the Bible has no inconsistencies, then go and have a closer relook. for examples check the genealogy of Jesus in the book of Mathew and compare it to the one in the book of Luke.

God is not an author of confusion!

victorazy:


Ofcus God knows everything and that's why he told them about his death "I will destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in 3 days" He was raised after 3 days (Matth. 26:61) this verse explained it that Jesus committed suicide because he gave his life.

You know we human being see and interpret things in human way. God's way is far from us.

It mean that God as flesh felt human pains and was first time reasoned like human and that moment the spirit of God left (flesh). Remember Jesus said he wished the cup will pass him but let the will of father be done, he was speaking as flesh.

Jesus died like a sinner and God left him. He went to hell as sinner without God.

I want you to understand something and get the full picture. God is almighty, he knows everything, plans everything, so everything was planned by him. We are nothing without him. So, you being born into a Christian family making you to be calling yourself a Christian, a Buddhist calling himself a Buddhist because he was born in India etc. Is all planned by him. He has destinied everything, even as a Christian can you tell me something special you enjoy, same thing with a Buddhist. You can't claim you live longer, athiest countries have higher life expectancy, you can't claim you guys get richer, the top ten richest man in the world are atheists, richest man in Africa is not a Christian, you can't claim you guys don't fall sick, you've heard of TB Joshua and co., You can't claim you are more brilliant when it comes to education, most nobel Laurette winners are atheists, and not christains. Same thing with a Buddhist, Hindus.

Brightale:
God and Jesus are the same person, yes isn't it?
God planned and knows everything, yes isn't it?
Then God send himself/part of himself to die for our sins, true isn't it?
Then Jesus, which you claimed to be God that planned everything cried when they were about to kill him, he cried to a greater power to save him! Remember God knows about the sin and everything.

My friends, the idea of a God coming down to punish himself for an offence against him is the most foolish aspect of Christianity. In fact, it a mockery of reason.
How, for example, will a man cut his own body so that the blood will cool him anguish over an offence of another person?

If Jesus is God, then who is in control over the universe during the supposed 3 days and 3 nights in the grave?

The author of the Gospel of John claimed that " God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son...."

If God loves the world as the Bible claimed above, then why did he hold humanity to ransom for the sin of Adam?

Is either God did not love the world or he didn't love that son!

Embrace Islam and be free from the spiritual and intellectual bondages of Christianity!

victorazy:


You cannot explain the ways of God.

In the heaven, Jesus is the word that comes out of God but later is was made flesh "Jesus".
But before then, God communicated to man directly, later that word was made flesh to come and teach the word to the world not to be heard by some eg. Moses, Pa Elijah etc.

That word is God himself, he has been there, he witnessed all, he created all, thats why Jesus told Satan " Don't temp Lord your God".

But Satan tempt Jesus for 40 days in the wilderness which mean Jesus cannot be God!

Besides, Jesus said in many places that God sent him, which mean he cannot be that same God. unless Jesus sent himself.

Embrace Islam and free yourself from bondage and confusion.

That scripture is stated plainly in English language in that even a Basic 3 pupil will understand. U are the one misinterpreting and adding to the meaning.

tctrills:
Please I would love your explanationsite of these verses
John 5.19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom.

My question is, from these verses, can we imply that the father onces suffered and died for sin?
Jess Christmas says, everything he did, he first saw his father do it.
So did the father also suffer and die for the sins of man?

Stop reading the heretic King James Bible.. U will just be confusing yaself

its possible the answers are in the bible, if you keep looking or you keep asking, you will find it.

tctrills:

I love your humility. It's hard for many of us to admit that we don't know.
While I know that the answer to this question wouldn't take anyone to heaven, but it could open up new unknown facts about the nature of God and Christ

tctrills:
Please I would love your explanationsite of these verses
John 5.19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom.

My question is, from these verses, can we imply that the father onces suffered and died for sin?
Jess Christmas says, everything he did, he first saw his father do it.
So did the father also suffer and die for the sins of man?

It means Jesus is the Father

What I understand from the scripture is that what ever the father tell him to do that is what he does in all the miracles he performed

liver123:
What I understand from the scripture is that what ever the father tell him to do that is what he does in all the miracles he performed

I concur!

Brightale:
God and Jesus are the same person, yes isn't it?
God planned and knows everything, yes isn't it?
Then God send himself/part of himself to die for our sins, true isn't it?
Then Jesus, which you claimed to be God that planned everything cried when they were about to kill him, he cried to a greater power to save him! Remember God knows about the sin and everything.

Jesus never cry for Almighty to save him in fact He made it clear if he want, the host of heaven would come down for him.

When the load of the world was on him on the cross, the part of God in him left because that part can not withstand sin, he was left as man on cross until he gave up the ghost.

UsmanBabaIdris:

If word of God stand forever, then why is the verse of 1 John 5:7 removed from modern versions and claimed to be false and fabricated?
It is obvious you are a victim of blind faith which even the Bible renounced. In the book of 1 Thessalonians 5:12, the Bible says:
"Prove all things..." (1 Thess. 5:12)
So what have you proved to show that the current Bible is the word of God, even though you know that it is written by multiple hands most of whom are unknown.

secondly, if the Bible has no inconsistencies, then go and have a closer relook. for examples check the genealogy of Jesus in the book of Mathew and compare it to the one in the book of Luke.

God is not an author of confusion!

Go and put the removed verses

Na so that father of all lairs will be twisted everything deceiving you guys. Common sense supposed be teaching you guys, but.....

Why are you even opening the Bible? What will i be looking in the Quran?

SeriouslySense:
To my little understanding, of which i may be wrong, because God is complex, and he only Shows what he wants to show to the people.

What I understand by this verse is that Jesus is 100 percent in unity with God, because he is also God, this is why whatever the father does the Son can also do.

And another way to understand it, is that Jesus and the Father are truly one, Jesus does what he does according to what the father does, so the saying is true, Listen, O Israel, for the Lord, is One.

finally, if we take it literally, as it comes, it could mean, Jesus, humbles himself So that God is glorified and in this process of revelations, God is revealed in Jesus or through Jesus, so that the Son is also Glorified, for the Lord is One.

Sir you have not just displayed little understanding of the bible but rather, you have manifested deep heavenly understanding of the scriptures. I'M BLESSED. Many thanks.