tctrills:
Please I would love your explanationsite of these verses
John 5.19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom.

My question is, from these verses, can we imply that the father onces suffered and died for sin?
Jess Christmas says, everything he did, he first saw his father do it.
So did the father also suffer and die for the sins of man?

The entire message borders on the unity of the God-head and the authority of God the father over Jesus Christ, the son.
It does not mean that God literally did everything verbatim like Jesus did while on earth as a divine person in a human form. I don’t think God ate fish and broke bread like Jesus did with his disciples. Or that God came down to Jordan to be baptized by John.

Rather the totality of the message and work of Christ in the atonement is understood that God had planned it from the foundation of the universe and noted the role Jesus Christ would play.

The verses below indicate some distinct duties of Jesus Christ. God wouldn’t have done that for Jesus to try to do later as Jesus said he alone is assigned to do that.

And the other verse talks about the necessary existence of Jesus. He existed on his own and his existence is not contingent on anything.

“Even the Father judges no one, for He has given all judgment (the last judgment and the whole business of judging) entirely into the hands of the Son,”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

“So that all men may give honor (reverence, homage) to the Son just as they give honor to the Father. [In fact] whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, Who has sent Him.”
John 5:23 AMPC

“For even as the Father has life in Himself and is self-existent, so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself and be self-existent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:26‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

Thank you

Nothingserious:


Only God had ever forgiven sins.
In the gospels Jesus forgave sins, and the religious leaders said it was sacrilegious.

Only God ought to receive worship, the Gospels account that Jesus was worshipped and he never cautioned or stopped them from worshipping him.

The last of the Gospels John had so much to say about Jesus being same as his father God.

If you don’t mind, the epistles by Paul and Hebrews had a lot to say about Jesus being same with God.

If you don’t like the accounts of the Epistles, you can stick to Matthew, Mark and Luke. But if you like John, a lot was written there too.

Thomas also exclaimed “My Lord and my God” and Jesus did not challenge or correct that.

Thank you.

If you read my previous comments you'll understand I stated Jesus was given authority to do those things, it was God who gave him those authority... Which he himself clearly stated in the Bible.

Jesus had, have no power to do anything without God's authority.. Read your Bible carefully. Once you understand he was given those authority by something greater him, then you'll understand he wasn't God.

No need arguing this, alot of people seems to have comprehension problems.

[quote author=Offpoint1 post=105766226]
If you read my previous comments you'll understand I stated Jesus was given authority to do those things, it was God who gave him those authority... Which he himself clearly stated in the Bible.

Jesus had, have no power to do anything without God's authority.. Read your Bible carefully. Once you understand he was given those authority by something greater him, then you'll understand he wasn't God.

No need arguing this, alot of people seems to have comprehension problems.

Please let’s stick to the scriptures.
Read the passages below. Pls don’t let pride deprive you of opportunities to learn.

“[Now] He is the exact likeness of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible]; He is the Firstborn of all creation. For it was in Him that all things were created, in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him [by His service, intervention] and in and for Him. And He Himself existed before all things, and in Him all things consist (cohere, are held together). [Prov. 8:22-31.] He also is the Head of [His] body, the church; seeing He is the Beginning, the Firstborn from among the dead, so that He alone in everything and in every respect might occupy the chief place [stand first and be preeminent]. For it has pleased [the Father] that all the divine fullness (the sum total of the divine perfection, powers, and attributes) should dwell in Him permanently.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-19‬ ‭AMPC‬‬
https://www.bible.com/8/col.1.15-19.ampc

John 10:30, Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.

For blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).

Very truly I tell you, . . . before Abraham was born, I am!” (John 8:58). The Jews, upon hearing Him, clearly understood that He was claiming preexistence and, more than that, to be Yahweh, the great “I AM” of Exodus 3:14. On this occasion, too, they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”“
Vs 14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

Thomas” my Lord and my God” (John 20:28)

“His disciples worshipped Him (Matthew 14:33). When He appeared to them after the resurrection, they fell at His feet and worshipped Him (Matthew 28:9).

the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13)

Nothingserious:
...

In all the verses you quoted, do you notice there was a supreme being, a father figure?
There's one whom the other bow to? Jesus isn't that supreme being... The father is.

Can't believe you're quoting me with clear evidence of Jesus not being GOD and still arguing he is at the same time.

Offpoint1:

In all the verses you quoted, do you notice there was a supreme being, a father figure?
There's one whom the other bow to? Jesus isn't that supreme being... The father is.

Can't believe you're quoting me with clear evidence of Jesus not being GOD and still arguing he is at the same time.

Lol!

How I wish you could just read to understand.
You are looking for Jesus saying “I am God”.
You won’t see that. But if you are reading to learn, you would open your mind and understand.

And I am amazed that even after reading all those Bible verses in the Gospels and the Epistles, that was all you could say. Wow!

At least some people argue that they only believe the Gospels and not Paul’s epistles like I cited. Yours is completely off the mark

Nothingserious:



The entire message borders on the unity of the God-head and the authority of God the father over Jesus Christ, the son.
It does not mean that God literally did everything verbatim like Jesus did while on earth as a divine person in a human form. I don’t think God ate fish and broke bread like Jesus did with his disciples. Or that God came down to Jordan to be baptized by John.

Rather the totality of the message and work of Christ in the atonement is understood that God had planned it from the foundation of the universe and noted the role Jesus Christ would play.

The verses below indicate some distinct duties of Jesus Christ. God wouldn’t have done that for Jesus to try to do later as Jesus said he alone is assigned to do that.

And the other verse talks about the necessary existence of Jesus. He existed on his own and his existence is not contingent on anything.

“Even the Father judges no one, for He has given all judgment (the last judgment and the whole business of judging) entirely into the hands of the Son,”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

“So that all men may give honor (reverence, homage) to the Son just as they give honor to the Father. [In fact] whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, Who has sent Him.”
John 5:23 AMPC

“For even as the Father has life in Himself and is self-existent, so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself and be self-existent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:26‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

Thank you

To get you right, you are saying that the father did not show the son his own works and the son did not copy the father's examples. And the scriptures meant to say God planned the atonement.
Now of course I waam not implying that John baptized God the father. But could it be that he also lived and had an earth life experience before the son Jesus Christ. That seems to be more accurate with what those verses say.

Nice explanation but another personal opinion.
I was hoping for someone who wouldn't give a personal opinion but one based on the scriptures.

Andy15:
well i don't think it means that God did every exact thing that Jesus did i just think it means that God taught him everything he knows and he tries to imitate God's qualities

Thanks for your opinion but how would you explain verse 21.For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
Clearly the verses are talking about Jesus following the father's examples and not just God's qualities.
The scriptures seem to be telling us that he lived the fathers experiences.

DeRichard:


No, for Jesus to say he learnt from the Father, he was right. What he meant is what God tells him to do is what he does that and in other words he learnt from the Father.

I think you are putting words into Jesus mouth or trying to explain for him.
Don't you think we can take the words of the scripture as they are? Without trying to explain it to mean another thing.

Nothingserious:


Lol!

How I wish you could just read to understand.
You are looking for Jesus saying “I am God”.
You won’t see that. But if you are reading to learn, you would open your mind and understand.

And I am amazed that even after reading all those Bible verses in the Gospels and the Epistles, that was all you could say. Wow!

At least some people argue that they only believe the Gospels and not Paul’s epistles like I cited. Yours is completely off the mark

I am done arguing...

Believe what you believe

tctrills:

To get you right, you are saying that the father did not show the son his own works and the son did not copy the father's examples. And the scriptures meant to say God planned the atonement.
Now of course I waam not implying that John baptized God the father. But could it be that he also lived and had an earth life experience before the son Jesus Christ. That seems to be more accurate with what those verses say.

Nice explanation but another personal opinion.
I was hoping for someone who wouldn't give a personal opinion but one based on the scriptures.

Interesting view you’ve got there.

So if you think those passages meant that God had done exactly everything Jesus did here on earth, do you think God ate fish with the disciples and digested them as Jesus did and also excreted them out like the divine Jesus when he was in human form?
Do you think God conversed with the Samaritan woman before and showed Jesus how to do same?

Do you think God was taken as a small boy for annual ceremony where he was left behind by Mary and Joseph?

Do you think God visited Zacheus and had dinner?

Do you think the alabaster box was broken at the feet of God before it was for Jesus?

Was God baptized at Jordan by John the Baptist before Jesus followed same footsteps?

You can’t interpret those scriptures that way pls.
Jesus simply had a pattern laid out for him by God the father that had to be followed for the general work.
And that work was done well the way God wanted.
Cheers

Offpoint1:

I am done arguing...

Believe what you believe

Pls go and study your Bible

Chibuezem:
the question was not directed to Muslims rather to Christians who believe in the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus christ as the saviour of the world and Son of God.


Mouth to dey scratch you for Christian thread tomorrow your brother go carry bomb go kill people because of 7 abi na 20 virgins in heaven....


Islam

You represent your name wella!

Abeg na you dey direct the question?

Kei144:


You cannot believe what you don't understand. It is not a matter of belief, but of understanding. Jesus is the son of God, not in the biological sense. God is a spirit and so has nothing to do with biology. Being a son of God simply means that the person has the divine assence or Holy Spirit in him. The person possesses the nature of God.

What is the nature of God?

Where can we find all this your explanation from Jesus in the Bible?

Ficeo:

Where your wisdom stops is where God's own starts. Be careful!

A better statement would have been:
God's knowledge is incomprehensible.
I am careful.

Eberex:


Are you a Christian?

No. I am anti Christian.

AntiChristian:


No. I am anti Christian.

No point replying you

Nothingserious:


Interesting view you’ve got there.

So if you think those passages meant that God had done exactly everything Jesus did here on earth, do you think God ate fish with the disciples and digested them as Jesus did and also excreted them out like the divine Jesus when he was in human form?
Do you think God conversed with the Samaritan woman before and showed Jesus how to do same?

Do you think God was taken as a small boy for annual ceremony where he was left behind by Mary and Joseph?

Do you think God visited Zacheus and had dinner?

Do you think the alabaster box was broken at the feet of God before it was for Jesus?

Was God baptized at Jordan by John the Baptist before Jesus followed same footsteps?

You can’t interpret those scriptures that way pls.
Jesus simply had a pattern laid out for him by God the father that had to be followed for the general work.
And that work was done well the way God wanted.
Cheers

Again, I like the way you see it as much as what you say makes sense, it's not like it's based on bible truths it's your personal opinion and we respect it.
Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
This simply means that the father also had an earthly experience. Yeah he could have been baptized but it does not have to be by john.

20. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does.
This is talking about action not some pattern..

21. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
This is so so specific telling us that the very work of resurrection Christ came to perform, the father has earlier done it.
Do you know any scripture that contradicts this. If you have a scripture that says otherwise thend u would believe you.
Remember we can't interpret the scripture to suit a believe. We follow the scripture not the other way round.

tctrills:

Again, I like the way you see it as much as what you say makes sense, it's not like it's based on bible truths it's your personal opinion and we respect it.
Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
This simply means that the father also had an earthly experience. Yeah he could have been baptized but it does not have to be by john.

20. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does.
This is talking about action not some pattern..

21. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
This is so so specific telling us that the very work of resurrection Christ came to perform, the father has earlier done it.
Do you know any scripture that contradicts this. If you have a scripture that says otherwise thend u would believe you.
Remember we can't interpret the scripture to suit a believe. We follow the scripture not the other way round.

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:18-19‬ ‭ASV‬‬

All I said came from the scriptures. Jesus simply told the Jewish audience that what he did to the sick man on a sabbath is exactly what his father would have wanted him to do. The passage above summarized what Jesus set out to do. That is his central message according to God’s will. He worked in accordance with the will of God to achieve the central theme. And he delivered perfectly on it. The specifics of how he did his work here on earth on a minute or second basis will not mean God the father took exactly same steps and micro actions as Jesus did, but the central message and work was delivered.

I don’t think you have any biblical support to show that Jesus meant God physically rehearsed ALL minute and micro activity he performed here on earth.

Or do you have a scriptural basis to show that we have done exactly all that Jesus did literally by quoting the scriptures that said we shall do same kind of work he (Jesus ) did or even greater than what he did. Have we done all those word for word?

Nothingserious:


“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:18-19‬ ‭ASV‬‬

All I said came from the scriptures. Jesus simply told the Jewish audience that what he did to the sick man on a sabbath is exactly what his father would have wanted him to do. The passage above summarized what Jesus set out to do. That is his central message according to God’s will. He worked in accordance with the will of God to achieve the central theme. And he delivered perfectly on it. The specifics of how he did his work here on earth on a minute or second basis will not mean God the father took exactly same steps and micro actions as Jesus did, but the central message and work was delivered.

I don’t think you have any biblical support to show that Jesus meant God physically rehearsed ALL minute and micro activity he performed here on earth.

Or do you have a scriptural basis to show that we have done exactly all that Jesus did literally by quoting the scriptures that said we shall do same kind of work he (Jesus ) did or even greater than what he did. Have we done all those word for word?

1. Sir with all due respect anyone can claim to have the spirit.
2. The passages of the scripture you are talking about seem to have nothing on our topic of discussion. We both agree that Christ worked in line with the will of the father. No argument.
3. I never said God physically rehearsed ALL minute and micro activity Christ performed here on earth. To help you understand better what I implied, If your father owns a company and runs it, and then allows you to take over after showing you all he did would you be wrong in saying, "19 “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does" This to every educated person never means that you are repeat all minute and micro activities of your father.
We shouldn't argue over plain English.
4. I think you even answered yourself here Or do you have a scriptural basis to show that we have done exactly all that Jesus did literally by quoting the scriptures that said we shall do same kind of work he (Jesus ) did or even greater than what he did. Have we done all those word for word?
This is exactly what I am saying Jesus came and gave us a perfect example we do not follow him by living all his ALL minute and micro activities. So it was with Christ, his father showed him his own life as those verses teach and he followed. I think you have finally answered your own question.
5. I can understand this being too hard for most Christians to comprehend. Most of us really read the scriptures superficially. In fact prior to my posting this on Nairaland most of you never knew of this. It's like the verse was hiding in plain sight.
As you say you have the spirit, you should pray and fast to know if those verses speak the truth.

tctrills:

1. Sir with all due respect anyone can claim to have the spirit.
2. The passages of the scripture you are talking about seem to have nothing on our topic of discussion. We both agree that Christ worked in line with the will of the father. No argument.
3. I never said God physically rehearsed ALL minute and micro activity Christ performed here on earth. To help you understand better what I implied, If your father owns a company and runs it, and then allows you to take over after showing you all he did would you be wrong in saying, "19 “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does" This to every educated person never means that you are repeat all minute and micro activities of your father.
We shouldn't argue over plain English.
4. I think you even answered yourself here Or do you have a scriptural basis to show that we have done exactly all that Jesus did literally by quoting the scriptures that said we shall do same kind of work he (Jesus ) did or even greater than what he did. Have we done all those word for word?
This is exactly what I am saying Jesus came and gave us a perfect example we do not follow him by living all his ALL minute and micro activities. So it was with Christ, his father showed him his own life as those verses teach and he followed. I think you have finally answered your own question.
5. I can understand this being too hard for most Christians to comprehend. Most of us really read the scriptures superficially. In fact prior to my posting this on Nairaland most of you never knew of this. It's like the verse was hiding in plain sight.
As you say you have the spirit, you should pray and fast to know if those verses speak the truth.

Hahaha!

I don’t make religious claims at all. I only tell people to meet my wife if they want to see a religious or churchy person. So forget about spirit and no spirit matter Sir/Ma.

I told you all the micro activities of Jesus were scriptural ( baptism by John, “missing “ while coming back from the annual event at young age, discussing with elders at the temple, breaking and eating bread, eating and digesting fish and excreting same, showing his hands to Thomas, crying at the tomb of Lazarus, alabaster perfume broken at his feet, dining with publicans, tax collectors and Zacheus, using spit to heal someone, being chased away by villagers after healing the legion demoniac, chatting with the Samaritan woman by the well etc). Those are real acts, recorded in the Bible ( my scriptural support you asked for). Those are micro activities and many more not recorded.

Do you think God the father DID EXACTLY all those and REHEARSED with Jesus Christ to do same? If your answer is no, what would warrant you to think the passage you quoted literally meant God had also done EVERYTHING Jesus did word for word? Just give me a scriptural backing for your line of thoughts and extrapolation please.

We cannot claim to know everything from the Bible. But we can try and just read the simple messages of the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to help us.

Like I said, Jesus was a divine human who operated here on earth in obedience to God’s will. God had a template for salvation of men written out before the foundation of the earth. Jesus was always with God and in God from pre-existence and came here to fulfil all God’s work based on the template/will of God.
How he executed it at micro level is between him and God.

He told the Jews in that passage that his father would have healed that man on a sabbath day since he is the God of the sabbath. His father keeps doing good work even on sabbaths so he too will do same. That is just the simple message from your passage.

I also asked you to interpret the part where he said the father has given ONLY HIM the right to JUDGE. Should Jesus and God not be doing exactly same specific things including the judgement if your interpretation were right?

Cheers

Eberex:


You are the one who doesn't understand.
It's simple logic and I don't see why you cannot comprehend it

Religion is more of believing what you are told, and less of logic

Nothingserious:


Hahaha!

I don’t make religious claims at all. I only tell people to meet my wife if they want to see a religious or churchy person. So forget about spirit and no spirit matter Sir/Ma.

I told you all the micro activities of Jesus were scriptural ( baptism by John, “missing “ while coming back from the annual event at young age, discussing with elders at the temple, breaking and eating bread, eating and digesting fish and excreting same, showing his hands to Thomas, crying at the tomb of Lazarus, alabaster perfume broken at his feet, dining with publicans, tax collectors and Zacheus, using spit to heal someone, being chased away by villagers after healing the legion demoniac, chatting with the Samaritan woman by the well etc). Those are real acts, recorded in the Bible ( my scriptural support you asked for). Those are micro activities and many more not recorded.

Do you think God the father DID EXACTLY all those and REHEARSED with Jesus Christ to do same? If your answer is no, what would warrant you to think the passage you quoted literally meant God had also done EVERYTHING Jesus did word for word? Just give me a scriptural backing for your line of thoughts and extrapolation please.

We cannot claim to know everything from the Bible. But we can try and just read the simple messages of the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to help us.

Like I said, Jesus was a divine human who operated here on earth in obedience to God’s will. God had a template for salvation of men written out before the foundation of the earth. Jesus was always with God and in God from pre-existence and came here to fulfil all God’s work based on the template/will of God.
How he executed it at micro level is between him and God.

He told the Jews in that passage that his father would have healed that man on a sabbath day since he is the God of the sabbath. His father keeps doing good work even on sabbaths so he too will do same. That is just the simple message from your passage.

I also asked you to interpret the part where he said the father has given ONLY HIM the right to JUDGE. Should Jesus and God not be doing exactly same specific things including the judgement if your interpretation were right?

Cheers

I see you are not getting my exact point. My point is that from those verses, we learn that our Father in Heaven had a similar experience, or do I call it an earthly experience.
The scriptures do not state when or if it was on this very earth but they tell us that he showed his son and Jesus Christ our savior followed. The verses are not teaching that it had to be with John or Mary or Joseph. they only tell us that Christ saw what his father did and followed the example.
Now to your final question, I also asked you to interpret the part where he said the father has given ONLY HIM the right to JUDGE. Should Jesus and God not be doing exactly same specific things including the judgement if your interpretation were right?

From the scripture, it means The father has at some time been a Judge and Christ was shown his example. Christ is simply telling us that his father has experienced the same thing. He did not tell us when or where.
Lastly, it's not my business but I don't think you should speak that way about your wife on social media. I only tell people to meet my wife if they want to see a religious or churchy person.

tctrills:

I see you are not getting my exact point. My point is that from those verses, we learn that our Father in Heaven had a similar experience, or do I call it an earthly experience.
The scriptures do not state when or if it was on this very earth but they tell us that he showed his son and Jesus Christ our savior followed. The verses are not teaching that it had to be with John or Mary or Joseph. they only tell us that Christ saw what his father did and followed the example.
Now to your final question, I also asked you to interpret the part where he said the father has given ONLY HIM the right to JUDGE. Should Jesus and God not be doing exactly same specific things including the judgement if your interpretation were right?

From the scripture, it means The father has at some time been a Judge and Christ was shown his example. Christ is simply telling us that his father has experienced the same thing. He did not tell us when or where.
Lastly, it's not my business but I don't think you should speak that way about your wife on social media. I only tell people to meet my wife if they want to see a religious or churchy person.

Thank you for your points.

My joke on my wife meant she is a better religious person that myself. That has no negative connotation and she knows. There is nothing wrong about being religious. I am religious. I am a church person. I am proud of it. But I just tell my wife she is better than me in that aspect.

I hope this is okay Sir/Ma?

Back to the main issue. We can only interpret scriptures with scriptures. Any other thing not clearly written can only be extrapolated. And those attract varied views

[quote author=tctrills post=105800281]
I see you are not getting my exact point. My point is that from those verses, we learn that our Father in Heaven had a similar experience, or do I call it an earthly experience.
The scriptures do not state when or if it was on this very earth but they tell us that he showed his son and Jesus Christ our savior followed. The verses are not teaching that it had to be with John or Mary or Joseph. they only tell us that Christ saw what his father did and followed the example.
Now to your final question, I also asked you to interpret the part where he said the father has given ONLY HIM the right to JUDGE. Should Jesus and God not be doing exactly same specific things including the judgement if your interpretation were right?

From the scripture, it means The father has at some time been a Judge and Christ was shown his example. Christ is simply telling us that his father has experienced the same thing. He did not tell us when or where.
Lastly, it's not my business but I don't think you should speak that way about your wife on social media. I only tell people to meet my wife if they want to see a religious or churchy person.[/quote


My question is, from these verses, can we imply that the father onces suffered and died for sin?
Jess Christmas says, everything he did, he first saw his father do it.
So did the father also suffer and die for the sins of man?


If your question is on what the father had done in a realm we humans will understand, then your explanations here nullifies the point you were trying to make.

But if your question is on something that is a possibility in a realm of God and Christ and not known and revealed to us humans, then we do not know. We can only guess and extrapolate and argue but cannot make much out of it.
But what Jesus did here physically and recorded in history and the scriptures, we can relate with.

So in what realm of existence or reality is your question addressed to?

[quote author=Nothingserious post=105807281][/quote]
Now I think you are finally getting it. Jesus Christ was revealing something we all take for granted. He was telling us something about his father

Nothingserious:


Thank you for your points.

My joke on my wife meant she is a better religious person that myself. That has no negative connotation and she knows. There is nothing wrong about being religious. I am religious. I am a church person. I am proud of it. But I just tell my wife she is better than me in that aspect.

I hope this is okay Sir/Ma?

Back to the main issue. We can only interpret scriptures with scriptures. Any other thing not clearly written can only be extrapolated. And those attract varied views

sorry, I didn't get the joke.
and like you say, we can only interpret scriptures with scriptures that's why I am uncomfortable to give personal interpretation when Jesus says, " Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

I want to believe Jesus when he says he saw the father do stuff. I don't want to assume it meant something else unless I read that from another passage of scripture.

When he says " For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so, the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it." I want to believe that the father had done it first before Christ did it.

AntiChristian:


You represent your name wella!

Abeg na you dey direct the question?

no na lie mohammed your grand patron

Kobojunkie:
1. You need to get a translation of the Bible in a language you can more easily understand.
God shows Him, Jesus Christ, what He the Father Wills to happen, and He Jesus Christ in turn submits to and does the Father's Will.

So, no, God did not first suffer and die for man before Jesus Christ did. Instead God Willed it that Jesus Christ will suffer and die, Jesus Christ in obedience submitted to doing the Will of the Father.

I don't know where you got your translation from but that's not what the Bible said. I says Jesus did what he saw his father do. It did not say God shows Him, Jesus Christ, what He the Father Wills to happen. At least not in the verse I quoted