Edeyoung:



Wiseman... If this will make you sleep well so be it......


You turned my harmless comment to a battle of racism, inferiority complex, all in a bid to prove your point....

Shut up idiot.

This is how the British destroyed Benin:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231935596_The_owner_of_the_land_the_Benin_Obas_and_colonial_forest_reservation_in_the_Benin_division_Southern_Nigeria

Benin people are certainly not revisionists, it is some non Edo who just refuse to accept the reality of Benin's greatness.

Truthvalue:
1) Ogiso, oduduwa, oranmiyan are myths. None of them ever existed.
2) the oduduwa story was invented by a "yoruba" polical group which was led by awolowo, in parallel an other "yoruba" political group created the story of olofin which is basically a rival myth.
3) Benin didn't seek any political help from the yoruba, if anything, the Oba of Benin was annoyed of being dragged into a myth which reduced his imperial might to being likened to small kings like those of oyo and Ife.
4) the story of Ogiso is a reaction to the story of oduduwa and oranmiyan
5) edeyoung, you are an idiot.
6) abohboy, you are also an idiot.

1. There's no evidence that they're myths it's just your sentiment
2. The story of Oduduwa existed before Awolowo was even born try again
3. Benin did seek political help from the Yoruba as can be seen through the Oghane stories
4. No it's not it is an indigenous Bini story and doesn't even relate to the stories of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan for the Ogiso it is believed they were ordanied by God to lead but the people weren't happy meanwhile Oduduwa came to help make the earth and Oranmiyan was a king and a descendant of Oduduwa how are those the same? And Oyo at its peak was larger then Benin Empire and spanned from Ondo to Kwara all the way to Togo. And Ife had a larger cultural influence then Benin ever did the influence of Ife spanned from Togo all the way to the Niger delta with the Itsekiri and the confluence with the Nupe and Igala
5. You're the only fool here cry more

Abohboy:


1. There's no evidence that they're myths it's just your sentiment

You do not seem to know what a myth is:

It is a story with no proof whatsoever.

Where is oduduwa birth certificate ?
Where is a record of oduduwa written by an eyewitness ?
Where is a picture of oduduwa ? The same thing goes for oranmiyan and Ogiso.

You are a child in the head if you can't understand the difference between myth and reality.

Also, the period these legends were created can very easily be traced and the one of oduduwa was traced to awolowo.

Abohboy:



2. The story of Oduduwa existed before Awolowo was even born try again

No ! The name oduduwa was already written about before awolowo was born, but the story of oduduwa (or the stories) which we know now were created by awolowo and his political gang.

Abohboy:


3. Benin did seek political help from the Yoruba as can be seen through the Oghane stories

The person who wrote "oghene" and Benin in the same sentence was one art history professor and she was talking about Benin Republic, and she was talking about a mythical story.
Also for your information, oghnene is a myth ! A myth related to some crusaders who were looking for a mythical Christian priest king whose kingdom was called ogvene.

Truthvalue:


No ! The name oduduwa was ready written about before awolowo was born, but the story of oduduwa (or the stories) which we know now were created by awolowo and his political gang.

They were first written down in 1824 including the stories before Awolowo and his father was born so you're wrong continue trying to create false history

@abohboy, I believe you might be too crazy already to listen to logics from me.

Abohboy:


They were first written down in 1824 including the stories before Awolowo and his father was born so you're wrong continue trying to create false history

dude, show me the documents instead of telling me it exists ! Show it to me !

Abohboy:


They were first written down in 1824 including the stories before Awolowo and his father was born so you're wrong continue trying to create false history

Dude, all I am saying are objectif logical facts, nothing on this is a creation of mine.
You are the overemotional and irrational one here.

Truthvalue:
dude, show me the documents instead of telling me it exists ! Show it to me !

You're the one who made the initial claim that it was written by Awolowo so bring your evidence first then i'll bring mine

Abohboy:

You're the one who made the initial claim that it was written by Awolowo so bring your evidence first then i'll bring mine

Ok, forget my claim of awolowo making up the story of oduduwa for now, and just show me proof oduduwa is real which is your thesis.
Mine is that oduduwa, Ogiso, orammiyan are myths.

Abohboy:


How was it slave returnees? And Bini oral history very clearly states that your original lineage of kings or Ogiso were replaced with the Oba kingship title of the Yoruba and replaced with a Yoruba king Oranmiyan essentially meaning your royal lineage are partly Yoruba if you're so sure of your oral history do a DNA test on your rulers and see how it comes back it's impossible for a group as small as the Bini to have been the origin of the Yoruba people of 45 million plus spread across three countries it just doesn't happen


It's like England claiming to be the source of all European empires when we already know that their royal lineage is German

You are such a child. Lol!!!

Your better has tried spinning this jargons and when they couldn't succeed they resulted to books written after by their co-revisionist on their return from slaves ships.

The Benin has NEVER claim to be the source of the lukumi's or yari.ba as you were all known before the slaves returnee neither did we claim to be the source of the Igbos. But most royal houses trace their origin to Benin Empire.

The Benin you are trying to reduce now was a fortress with citizens treated like your royals when your ancestors were running around half naked, being captured like cockroaches and sold into slavery.

Edeyoung:


I guess i was wrong on the date never the less my point still stand....

That the benin obas sort the political help from the Yoruba, with their own doings... And not the gibberish you bald head is thinking


1920 meaning 6yrs after amalgamation

You are clown

Stop just stop before you disgrace yourself further. Your betters walked this lane and they are still as confused as confusion till date. Oni is not Oghene and Ife is not in the East of Benin.

Are you lots so daft or you are just being silly trying to change the map of the world by placing Ife in the East instead of West.

Ozuor!

I'm avoiding this thread as usual.

OP, don't be a coward. You are either Igbo or Yoruba. Stand by your people and stop acting your gene.

Born2Breed:





You are clown

Stop just stop before you disgrace yourself further. Your betters walked this lane and they are still as confused as confusion till date. Oni is not Oghene and Ife is not in the East of Benin.

Are you lots so daft or you are just being silly trying to change the map of the world by placing Ife in the East instead of West.

Ozuor!

I guess you made a mistake quoting me on this......

Simply visit my profile and topics before you start pointing fingers

Born2Breed:
I'm avoiding this thread as usual.

OP, don't be a coward. You are either Igbo or Yoruba. Stand by your people and stop acting your gene.

You are right, the game plan of nairaland is to troll people in order to have them comment on nairaland. Some of these commenters here are paid to troll and they impersonate several ethnic groups. It is their job.

Edeyoung:



I guess you made a mistake quoting me on this......

Simply visit my profile and topics before you start pointing fingers

Please just shut up, you are the fakest commenter here, you evil impersonator. You are not Edo, stop pretending.

Abohboy:


They were first written down in 1824 including the stories before Awolowo and his father was born so you're wrong continue trying to create false history

Just incase you got the 1824 date from my writeup, let me clarify some points.

1824 was when the first Europeans visited the hinterland of Yoruba (Oyo) and started gathering first hand historical accounts of the Yoruba people.

Around this same time the Europeans also visited the Sultan of Sokoto, Sultan Bello, Sultan Bello had documented that the Yorubas migrated from the middle east (Mecca).

The Europeans that were in Oyo (the lander Brothers and co) collected a different tradition from that of Sultan Bello.

In both accounts, Oduduwa wasn't mentioned.

Oduduwa was a myth in some Yoruba traditions until some returnee slaves such as Samuel Johnson started writing the history of the Yoruba.

Samuel Johnson in 1897 built his Yoruba middle east origin on Sultan Bello's 1822-1824 narrative but unlike Sultan Bello that claimed that the Yorubas migrated from Mecca, Samuel Johnson argued in the direction of Egypt because he said there were no records of Oduduwa in the history of Mecca.

This is how a mythical Oduduwa was transformed into the Moses that led his Yoruba people from the middle east to their current location in Nigeria. Some Igbos did the same by tracing themselves back to Israel.

The Oduduwa story was built on Sultan Bello's 1824 unsubstantiated narrative.

What some of you propagate as history are mostly layers of lies told over time by different people and Yoruba history is full of these kind of narratives, they try to get away with it by telling you they were scholarly works by experts.

The so called experts need materials to work with and in most cases these materials are lies told over time and at the end the experts and professionals just help to further the lies to advance their careers.

The only true history are the ones documented by eyewitnesses who happened to witness what they wrote down. This is why Benin has no rival and a reference point.

Benin is the only significant kingdom/empire in Nigeria with such eyewitness historical accounts dating back to the 1400s, Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts started in 1824, the story of Oduduwa was created much later.

Truthvalue:

Please just shut up, you are the fakest commenter here, you evil impersonator. You are not Edo, stop pretending.

And you're the edo man indeed you're igbo,

Trying to get back at the Yorubas

Mugu i showed you a text were oba eweka 2 acknowledged the alafin of oyo and oni as superior in 1920 to further buttress my point you turned it to an insult by me to the benin royalty...

You keep discrediting fact without proves the last one you did was using racial slurs as your defense...

Sorry my dear

samuk:


Just incase you got the 1824 date from my writeup, let me clarify some points.

1824 was when the first Europeans visited the hinterland of Yoruba (Oyo) and started gathering first hand historical accounts of the Yoruba people.

Around this same time the Europeans also visited the Sultan of Sokoto, Sultan Bello, Sultan Bello had documented that the Yorubas migrated from the middle east (Mecca).

The Europeans that were in Oyo (the lander Brothers and co) collected a different tradition from that of Sultan Bello.

In both accounts, Oduduwa wasn't mentioned.

Oduduwa was a myth in some Yoruba traditions until some returnee slaves such as Samuel Johnson started writing the history of the Yoruba.

Samuel Johnson in 1897 built his Yoruba middle east origin on Sultan Bello's 1822-1824 narrative but unlike Sultan Bello that claimed that the Yorubas migrated from Mecca, Samuel Johnson argued in the direction of Egypt because he said there were no records of Oduduwa in the history of Mecca.

This is how a mythical Oduduwa was transformed into the Moses that led his Yoruba people from the middle east to their current location in Nigeria. Some Igbos did the same by tracing themselves back to Israel.

The Oduduwa story was built on Sultan Bello's 1824 unsubstantiated narrative.

What some of you propagate as history are mostly layers of lies told over time by different people and Yoruba history is full of these kind of narratives, they try to get away with it by telling you they were scholarly works by experts.

The so called experts need materials to work with and in most cases these materials are lies told over time and at the end the experts and professionals just help to further the lies to advance their careers.

The only true history are the ones documented by eyewitnesses who happened to witness what they wrote down. This is why Benin has no rival and a reference point.

Benin is the only significant kingdom/empire in Nigeria with such eyewitness historical accounts dating back to the 1400s, Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts started in 1824, the story of Oduduwa was created much later.

Yea this is a well researched carried out, not the baldman down here pointing fingers and calling people traitors because they decide to speak the undiluted truth that point fingers to the palace on their wrong doings

Edeyoung:


Yea this is a well researched carried out, not the baldman down here pointing fingers and calling people traitors because they decide to speak the undiluted truth that point fingers to the palace on their wrong doings

I don't usually like to get involved when compatriots start having a dig at each others in other not to be seen as taking sides.

However, let me point out few things.

1. Was there alliance between Oba Eweka 11, the Alaafin of Oyo and Ooni of Ife after the death of Oba Ovonramwen? I believe there was.

2. Was there any such connection before 1897? I can't find evidence to support any connection between Ooni and Benin but there was evidence of Oba of Benin and Alaafin of Oyo alliance.

3. Does your submission that claims that Oba Eweka 11 used to pray for himself, Ooni and Alaafin in the morning mean that he sees (Ooni and Alaafin) as superior? I don't think so, praying for people or other traditional rulers you are in alliance with doesn't mean they are superior to you.

4. The very fact that both the Benin Palace after 1897 and the Ooni subscribe to the Oduduwa story is enough evidence of an alliance between them in colonial times for mutual political gains, there is other evidence that I wouldn't like to disclose here.

5. There are no mentions of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin history pre-1897.

samuk:


I don't usually like to get involved when compatriots start having a dig at each others in other no to be seen as taking sides.

However, let me point out few things.

1. Was there alliance between Oba Eweka 11, the Alaafin of Oyo and Ooni of Ife after the death of Oba Ovonramwen? I believe there was.

2. Was there any such connection before 1897? I can't find evidence to support any connection between Ooni and Benin but there was evidence of Oba of Benin and Alaafin of Oyo alliance.

3. Does your submission that claims that Oba Eweka 11 used to pray for himself, Ooni and Alaafin in the morning mean that he sees (Ooni and Alaafin) as superior? I don't think so, praying for people or other traditional rulers you are in alliance with doesn't mean they are superior to you.

4. The very fact that both the Benin Palace after 1897 and the Ooni subscribe to the Oduduwa story is enough evidence of an alliance between them in colonial times for mutual political gains, there is other evidence that I wouldn't like to disclose here.

5. There are no mentions of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin history pre-1897.

That bastard gregyboy/edeyoung just called me Igbo ...
Look, gregyboy is not one of us, he is dumb and a backstabber. It is this fool gregyboy/edeyoung who keeps attacking Edo people on nairaland for not towing his line. This guy is not Edo.
The only alliance between the Oba of Benin and the Oni of Ifa was limited to the fact the British used to organise meetings of "western chiefs" which included the Oba of Benin and the Oni and the alafin.
Also when the Oni of Ifa became the prime minister of the western region, dealing with him was not avoidable by anybody within the western region...
And this gregyboy/edeyoung keeps disrespecting the Oba of Benin while claiming to be Edo...

samuk:


Just incase you got the 1824 date from my writeup, let me clarify some points.

1824 was when the first Europeans visited the hinterland of Yoruba (Oyo) and started gathering first hand historical accounts of the Yoruba people.

Around this same time the Europeans also visited the Sultan of Sokoto, Sultan Bello, Sultan Bello had documented that the Yorubas migrated from the middle east (Mecca).

The Europeans that were in Oyo (the lander Brothers and co) collected a different tradition from that of Sultan Bello.

In both accounts, Oduduwa wasn't mentioned.

Oduduwa was a myth in some Yoruba traditions until some returnee slaves such as Samuel Johnson started writing the history of the Yoruba.

Samuel Johnson in 1897 built his Yoruba middle east origin on Sultan Bello's 1822-1824 narrative but unlike Sultan Bello that claimed that the Yorubas migrated from Mecca, Samuel Johnson argued in the direction of Egypt because he said there were no records of Oduduwa in the history of Mecca.

This is how a mythical Oduduwa was transformed into the Moses that led his Yoruba people from the middle east to their current location in Nigeria. Some Igbos did the same by tracing themselves back to Israel.

The Oduduwa story was built on Sultan Bello's 1824 unsubstantiated narrative.

What some of you propagate as history are mostly layers of lies told over time by different people and Yoruba history is full of these kind of narratives, they try to get away with it by telling you they were scholarly works by experts.

The so called experts need materials to work with and in most cases these materials are lies told over time and at the end the experts and professionals just help to further the lies to advance their careers.

The only true history are the ones documented by eyewitnesses who happened to witness what they wrote down. This is why Benin has no rival and a reference point.

Benin is the only significant kingdom/empire in Nigeria with such eyewitness historical accounts dating back to the 1400s, Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts started in 1824, the story of Oduduwa was created much later.

The Portugese and Dutch quite literally came into contact with the Ijebu and traded with them as far back the 1500s so your claim of no Yoruba having contact with Europeans till the 1800s is wrong you can try all you want but the history of Oduduwa comes from the Odu Ifa which cannot be corrupted the stories of the Odu Ifa have been the same since the dawn of time

Truthvalue:

Ok, forget my claim of awolowo making up the story of oduduwa for now, and just show me proof oduduwa is real which is your thesis.
Mine is that oduduwa, Ogiso, orammiyan are myths.

Prove to me that Jesus was real

Born2Breed:


You are such a child. Lol!!!

Your better has tried spinning this jargons and when they couldn't succeed they resulted to books written after by their co-revisionist on their return from slaves ships.

The Benin has NEVER claim to be the source of the lukumi's or Yoruba as you were all known before the slaves returnee neither did we claim to be the source of the Igbos. But most royal houses trace their origin to Benin Empire.

The Benin you are trying to reduce now was a fortress with citizens treated like your royals when your ancestors were running around half naked, being captured like cockroaches and sold into slavery.

Benin nobles literally bought cloth from the Yoruba and Nupe when cloth manufacturing is mentioned predominantly it relates to the Yoruba, Nupe and Igbo groups making the cloths and selling them so how exactly were my ancestors running around naked?

We made all of the glass that you guys used for your houses don't argue go and search the only glass made in the West African forest belt indigenously was from Ile Ife so any glass you used came from there

We made the cloth you used

We taught you the art of bronze casting

Your religion is literally based off of our own religion you even share common names for deities like Osun and Ogun

Abohboy:


Prove to me that Jesus was real

Where did I declare that Jesus is real ? So basically your oduduwa story is a dogma at the same level as religions ? Ok, at least you agree that oduduwa never existed and you just force yourself to believe in it and you want to force others to believe in it also. Ok. Goodbye now.

Truthvalue:

Where did I declare that Jesus is real ? So basically your oduduwa story is a dogma at the same level as religions ? Ok, at least you agree that oduduwa never existed and you just force yourself to believe in it and you want to force others to believe in it also. Ok. Goodbye now.

He existed but he was deified the most likely line of history is this

Obatala was the name of the original lineage of Ife kigns called the Ugbo

They were overwhelmed by the power of Oduduwa who was able to unite the different Yoruba groups into a singular spiritual and cultural center at Ife

The Ugbo went to settle down in modern day Ondo State

That's the true story the stories of Oduduwa climbing down a chain to earth or Oduduwa taking over from Obatala to make humans and the earth likely refers to his strength in uniting humans and making new lineages within the world

But to say he was a modern creation or never existed is stupidity

Abohboy:


He existed but he was deified the most likely line of history is this

Obatala was the name of the original lineage of Ife kigns called the Ugbo

They were overwhelmed by the power of Oduduwa who was able to unite the different Yoruba groups into a singular spiritual and cultural center at Ife

The Ugbo went to settle down in modern day Ondo State

That's the true story the stories of Oduduwa climbing down a chain to earth or Oduduwa taking over from Obatala to make humans and the earth likely refers to his strength in uniting humans and making new lineages within the world

But to say he was a modern creation or never existed is stupidity

oduduwa never existed, fact. Don't quote me anymore, your case is a lost cause.
Same with obatala, all these are fairytales fit for children, not adults !

samuk:


I don't usually like to get involved when compatriots start having a dig at each others in other not to be seen as taking sides.

However, let me point out few things.

1. Was there alliance between Oba Eweka 11, the Alaafin of Oyo and Ooni of Ife after the death of Oba Ovonramwen? I believe there was.

2. Was there any such connection before 1897? I can't find evidence to support any connection between Ooni and Benin but there was evidence of Oba of Benin and Alaafin of Oyo alliance.

3. Does your submission that claims that Oba Eweka 11 used to pray for himself, Ooni and Alaafin in the morning mean that he sees (Ooni and Alaafin) as superior? I don't think so, praying for people or other traditional rulers you are in alliance with doesn't mean they are superior to you.

4. The very fact that both the Benin Palace after 1897 and the Ooni subscribe to the Oduduwa story is enough evidence of an alliance between them in colonial times for mutual political gains, there is other evidence that I wouldn't like to disclose here.

5. There are no mentions of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin history pre-1897.

Number 3, i really wasnt saying the alafin or ooni was superior to the oba of benin never, i only used the quote to buttress my point on the political alliance between the Yorubas and edos

Truthvalue:

oduduwa never existed, fact. Don't quote me anymore, your case is a lost cause.
Same with obatala, all these are fairytales fit for children, not adults !

They were simply kings that were deified

samuk:


Just incase you got the 1824 date from my writeup, let me clarify some points.

1824 was when the first Europeans visited the hinterland of Yoruba (Oyo) and started gathering first hand historical accounts of the Yoruba people.

Around this same time the Europeans also visited the Sultan of Sokoto, Sultan Bello, Sultan Bello had documented that the Yorubas migrated from the middle east (Mecca).

The Europeans that were in Oyo (the lander Brothers and co) collected a different tradition from that of Sultan Bello.

In both accounts, Oduduwa wasn't mentioned.

Oduduwa was a myth in some Yoruba traditions until some returnee slaves such as Samuel Johnson started writing the history of the Yoruba.

Samuel Johnson in 1897 built his Yoruba middle east origin on Sultan Bello's 1822-1824 narrative but unlike Sultan Bello that claimed that the Yorubas migrated from Mecca, Samuel Johnson argued in the direction of Egypt because he said there were no records of Oduduwa in the history of Mecca.

This is how a mythical Oduduwa was transformed into the Moses that led his Yoruba people from the middle east to their current location in Nigeria. Some Igbos did the same by tracing themselves back to Israel.

The Oduduwa story was built on Sultan Bello's 1824 unsubstantiated narrative.

What some of you propagate as history are mostly layers of lies told over time by different people and Yoruba history is full of these kind of narratives, they try to get away with it by telling you they were scholarly works by experts.

The so called experts need materials to work with and in most cases these materials are lies told over time and at the end the experts and professionals just help to further the lies to advance their careers.

The only true history are the ones documented by eyewitnesses who happened to witness what they wrote down. This is why Benin has no rival and a reference point.

Benin is the only significant kingdom/empire in Nigeria with such eyewitness historical accounts dating back to the 1400s, Yoruba eyewitness historical accounts started in 1824, the story of Oduduwa was created much later.

lol and the experts and historians don't know they are lies but you - an insignificant nobody just instinctively know they are lies

please tell me the eye witnesses that documented benin history, give me eye witness accounts of the reign of Ewuare? or Ewaure did not exist too?