typing...

As I have said, compromise of your standard (what you won't allow) for "peace to reign" is compromise, no matter your justification. Such compromises are made because men are locked-in by the marriage situation (especially when kids are involved); they will rather give in to their wives and let things slide for the marriage to go on in peace. Compromise and a "hostage" situation (where you cannot easily walk away from a woman) are not things associated with the alpha personality; if you aren't alpha to your woman, what frame do you have? This is how it is for most men. The compromises usually start small and seem inconsequential (they seem to be no big deal), and they have an implicit promise of lasting peace, but this is by the woman's manipulative design. It only gets worse from there, and if the man is not careful, he will eventually find himself in a position where he has minor leverage and control. It's even worse when the things you compromise on during marriage are standards you have been readily enforcing during courtship as a no-nonsense man, you then will be seen as a joker; with such compromise, it is clear that the scale of power isn't in your favour anymore. Men should watch out for such situations. Compromise cracks your frame.


During dating and courtship, your power (leverage) in the relationship is at its peak. Why? You can easily and readily walk away without any detriment to yourself, you can replace her for another woman and your options are still open if she messes up... these are alpha-like qualities. Women know this, that's why they usually behave themselves at this stage, only to change and reveal their true selves during the marriage when the dynamic and leverage situation are different. Women know this; married man will always notice that their wives were at their best (behaviour-wise and sex-wise) during dating and courtship. For those that are dating with the intention of marriage, it must be noted that women do not change, behaviour- and sex-wise, for the better as your relationship progresses from dating to marriage (with kids involved); it usually gets worse. IF SHE WAS TOXIC AND TERRIBLE DURING DATING AND MARRIAGE, IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE. Never ignore red flags. Also, because she is an angel during dating and courtship doesn't mean she won't change for the worse during marriage; you just can never tell by the present.


In the setting of a monogamous marriage (especially when kids are involved), the alpha-like qualities I mentioned reduces as I explained earlier. Not only can a man not walk away easily, he is less likely to be willing to replace his wife since he is locked in, he is invested and has made sacrifices, kids are involved, etc. He is more inclined to seek to keep things running in peace by any means. When you can't replace a woman and she is your only source of romantic relationship and sex (thanks to monogamy), you eliminate competition anxiety and she feels secured knowing the marriage situation has restricted you to her. She is no longer under any pressure to give you her best. Why would she? You are not going anywhere and you want things to work out. Such situation with a women isn't alpha-like; as we know, alphas can replace the woman they are dealing with, they can easily walk away, women compete for them, they are not locked-in by any woman, and no woman is officially their only source of sex for life. If you lose these things, what frame are you claiming to have? The fact that many men see their monogamous marriages as a do-or-die affair and point of no return helps to lock them in.


typing...

For those following, don't mind the delay, I am composing the posts just now, so each will take time, especially when I will have to reread, make corrections and amend. There are many things I will still like to touch and I am not done yet.

It should be noted that I don't have anti-marriage intentions with my posts. I am simply discussing how marriage affects the masculine frame of men, that's all. I am giving my perspective on how it is. If I want to discuss the entire issue of marriage, I will have to dedicate more time and energy.

JESHAL:
@Martiñez39s, good afternoon, regarding our discussion yesterday, I made reference to Rollo as an outlier and Redpiller still keeping his marriage intact in that their Society, it's crazy how he's doing it but in a way it makes us hopeful( i know it's against logic to rely on these) but will like you to further dig into the discussion, may be it's his redpill frame that keeping his relationship, I can't really say.

In order not to waste time and to give you something to consider while I type what I am typing, let me say this.

As an aspiring patriarch who leans towards the traditional side of things, Rollo Tomassi's marriage isn't what your standards permit.

•) Rollo didn't know about the red pill before marriage and when he got married.

•) His wife is older than him. Rollo admitted that he was his wife's fuçk buddy before marriage and his wife was sleeping with other men as well. Rollo was sleeping with other women as well. All changed when when his wife wanted him for herself, as he said.

By the way, you know the way a marriage appears on the outside is usually different from what happens on the inside. If his wife is wielding all the power that the gynocentric society affords her and being the boss, you don't expect him to admit it because of ego. The fact that a marriage subsists doesn't mean it is a happy one or that it is running as you would expect; there are usually a lot that outsiders are not aware of. Rollo doesn't talk about his marriage that much, usually for good reasons. Nevertheless, it is best not to put yourself in a position that can be detrimental to you. I am not saying Rollo Tomassi's marriage isn't it, but all I am saying is that let's not make assumptions and place our hopes in things we don't fully understand. Perhaps, as an open-minded person, I will say that maybe there is something he knows that we don't about marriage to keep it running as people think.

Finally, I am not discrediting Rollo Tomassi's red pill knowledge. Rollo is vast and profound in red pill subject.

Following

I am still typing. I have to attend to something. I will be back later.

Following

Following too.

Rollo is a fake

Martinez39s

Following

Lightway:
Rollo is a fake

Martinez39s

Why do you say that?

typing...

Some might scoff and say that they will never be victims of the marital issues I listed. They might think their no-nonsense attitude in enforcing their standards during dating and courtship will meet the same success later on, but your woman is patiently waiting for the later stages; some think that their woman is different and will keep behaving and succumbing to their authority each time they enforce their standard and merely express their disapproval. Lol. It's really easier said than done. You can't be too sure with your assumptions until you experience the marriage situation (with kids involved). You need to be watchful. Walking away is not easy, and men really don't want their children growing up in broken homes; it is never part of their plan. Men will always think about the kids. Also, due to the points in my previous posts, you notice that many redpillers or rugged men that marry later tend to seem "softened" after marriage (not as radical as before); if care is not taken, they might unknowingly start parroting little blue pill stuffs here and there to inwardly justify their compromise and calm themselves in their position of little or no leverage.

The woman you know during dating and courtship won't necessarily be the same person you will know during marriage when kids are yet to come. Also, the woman you see during marriage when kids are yet to come isn't necessarily the same person you will see when the kids start pouring in. Women change, especially in response to a change in power dynamic and leverage. Also, the way you are perceived during these stages are different: (1) in the dating and courtship stage, your image in her head is that of a man that has leverage and alpha-like qualities, a man she feels the need to try to keep, (2) in the later stages, your image is that of a man that is locked in to only her, a man that makes compromises for her (to keep the marriage going), a man that officially has her as his only source of sex, a man over whom she now has more of the leverage etc. Both images are starkly different and both do not command the same respect and desire. Your woman sees both images as different men, hence you cannot bank on how you were before marriage. Also, only one image gives her the incentive and competition anxiety to be on her toes and behave well. This might not make sense to some, but female wiring and "logic" is backwards and does make sense for the most part. This is also the same reason why your marriage can drastically change for the worse when you take your wife abroad. Why? The power and leverage situation have been worsen by the inclusion of the gynocentric laws; your image changes. This image change is also the reason why you are treated differently when you are the breadwinner compared to when you hit hard times and she is the breadwinner.

Before I continue, let's list some warning signs that should catch your attention during your committed relationship.

typing...

Lightway:
Rollo is a fake

Martińez39s

I don't think he is fake. Rollo Tomassi is very redpilled. He knows what he is talking about. I wouldn't discredit him due to his blue pill past. Let's look at his message.

I have amended my last lengthy post. I will start working on the next post. Counter-arguments and contributions are appreciated.

Writing long takes time. There are many stuffs I haven't touched yet. Let me rest small then continue in the evening by 5:45 pm.

@JESHAL

Is there any question you would want to ask? Let me think and give you a reply.

Martinez39s:
I have amended my last lengthy post. I will start working on the next post. Counter-arguments and contributions are appreciated.

Writing long takes time. There are many stuffs I haven't touched yet. Let me rest small then continue in the evening by 5:45 pm.

I believe that having either multiple wives or mistresses is the solution, but seeing what is happening to 2face they way his wife and babymama are disgracing him, it shows you can be polygamous, high in status among your peers and be beta as fvck, his family are even using his shame to catch Cruise for themselves because he's tolerating toxic women due to the fact that they are the mother of his kids, just imagine he was in Western nation's, his story would be worse, even biblical Solomon that was wise and polygamous, probably richer than any king during his time lost frame, his wives were patient till when he was old and they weakened his heart he turned it against God and created idols to pedestalize his foreign wives gods,I know these might seem as a metaphysical example from the Bible but it reveals some fundamental redpill truths, they changed him in the long run, will be awaiting your subsequent posts

Martinez39s:
@JESHAL

Is there any question you would want to ask? Let me think and give you a reply.

I want to know if u are referring to all the present generation of woman or do u hv reservation?

JESHAL:



I believe that having either multiple wives or mistresses is the solution, but seeing what is happening to 2face they way his wife and babymama are disgracing him, it shows you can be polygamous, high in status among your peers and be beta as fvck, his family are even using his shame to catch Cruise for themselves because he's tolerating toxic women due to the fact that they are the mother of his kids, just imagine he was in Western nation's, his story would be worse, even biblical Solomon that was wise and polygamous, probably richer than any king during his time lost frame, his wives were patient till when he was old and they weakened his heart he turned it against God and created idols to pedestalize his foreign wives gods,I know these might seem as a metaphysical example from the Bible but it reveals some fundamental redpill truths, they changed him in the long run, will be awaiting your subsequent posts

Women are really patient with their plans. They know just when to strike at their targets.

Polynek:
I want to know if u are referring to all the present generation of woman or do u hv reservation?

No, I don't have reservations. What might be different could just be the environment and society the man finds himself. That's as far as it goes.

JESHAL:
I believe that having either multiple wives or mistresses is the solution, but seeing what is happening to 2face they way his wife and babymama are disgracing him, it shows you can be polygamous, high in status among your peers and be beta as fvck, his family are even using his shame to catch Cruise for themselves because he's tolerating toxic women due to the fact that they are the mother of his kids, just imagine he was in Western nation's, his story would be worse, even biblical Solomon that was wise and polygamous, probably richer than any king during his time lost frame, his wives were patient till when he was old and they weakened his heart he turned it against God and created idols to pedestalize his foreign wives gods,I know these might seem as a metaphysical example from the Bible but it reveals some fundamental redpill truths, they changed him in the long run, will be awaiting your subsequent posts

As G0LANHEIGHTS said, women are very patient with their plans. They know how to strike when the iron is hot. Also, a woman can maintain her chameleon masks for many years necessary, if possible, to get what she wants.

The thing with polygamy is that it doesn't eliminate competition anxiety like monogamy, but that's as far as it goes. Polygamy and having many babymamas won't prevent women from playing their games. Polygamy is better than monogamy, but it has its downsides and it is not a cure-all for the issues associated with being in a committed relationship with a woman.

Concerning marriage,the only way to maintain frame depends on the kind of woman you marry. Her background,personality and lifestyle play a major role.
you really need to study her well,spot the red flags then weigh your options.
its not easy to spot these red flags but its not impossible either.
Like martinez said women are dynamic. They can fit perfectly well into any situation just to get what they desire.
I still strongly believe her personality/life style goes a long way towards maintaining your frame.
for instance,if she's sanguine and aggressive,be sure to expect lots of punches and insults. Obviously such a woman would be hard to control when she got leverage on her side.
Dude, shit test the shit tester.
I noticed something about myself while growing up,i always test a lady's level of aggression, reason being that i don't like aggressive ladies. I always thought i was a jerk for doing such but now i know better.
so learn to manipulate the manipulator so you have an idea who you're getting

CaveAdullam:


Seems you are new to this place sir and that you don't know the KING of the zhanga. Therefore, I honourably pass this "baton of honour" to him.

I'm only but a broke masturbator! Anyway, thanks for the honour sir.

Your sarcastic jokes everytime

4ckz:


I have tried this arm twisting thing and it almost ended very badly.

Though she wasn't my babe, visited my aunt and the ladies in the opposite flat had an overblown small issue with her. Her child brought back a dstv remote from their flat, and this though simple childishness might have resulted to my demise.
Initially, when problem was starting, I totally ignored them till the 3 ladies started fighting my aunt, I had to step in. Didn't fight, was trying to settle with dialogue till one (probably the gang leader) slapped me.
I pushed her against a wall and twisted her right arm till she started crying and begging me to stop, I did and we apparently settled with more people involved by then.

Later that evening she walked behind me with a knife, intending to stab me, I noticed and dodged only getting a minor injury from it, saw a laying pipe, used it to flog her till she dropped the knife, she was later arrested and all, but that's a long story.

My point is if I were dating her, an arm twist might have resulted in someone stabbing me in my sleep.

Women are just as complex as males, treat a lady with caution just as you would a guy, forget size advantage, and most importantly learn your babe and dominate her psychologically more than physically.

Thankfully, I have dated only two physically violent women and both are extremely different and handling them had to be different.

The first was a lovely one except for her quick temper, but her physicality ended in slaps which she would feel terrible for afterwards. She was bigger than me and maybe that gave her ideas. Her violence rediced the day I made her know I could beat her up easily. It involved incapacitating her, then sitting on top of her and talking, I could see the fear in her that day.

The second, was just a witch, probably as smart as I am or smarter, from a very to do family. I, from the start didn't have a lot above her, apart from being richer. The psychological drag for power lingered for long even after dating, till I got tired of it and started letting her win because I didn't have strength for useless arguments (I thought it was useless arguments then).
Before long she started controlling the relationship, and I was still giving way because"I didn't have strength for useless arguments".
Then the violence started creeping out, from holding my shirt tightly, to later slaps. Mind you, this is a very tiny lady, and if I got angry enough, I will twist her arms (my then specialty in dealing with violent women), overshadow her with my loud angry voice, then I will leave, thinking I have regained control. But, before long, it would happen again.
I continued with her, because these occurrences weren't very frequent but weren't rare, but becoming more common with time. In a very heated case too, I slapped her with force because she slapped me in front of her friends. I thought that was it but it wasn't.
The day my eye finally cleared is one day we were discussing about a man who beat up his wife and was all over social media.
She said that if she was the woman, she wouldn't report to anyone, she would drug the man and beat him up to her satisfaction when he was still incapacitated.

It was that day I finally got my warning. I ended the relationship right there in my mind. These kind of warnings don't usually come two times.


My entire point is, do not have a general formula for this issue because every lady is different. Learn her to be able to dominate her.

Dominating her psychologically would always beat dominating her physically

Don't be a gentle guy that accepts abuse it would only open way for more abuses

Know that there are women you won't/can't win no matter how hard you try. Know when to give it all up and walk away.

Wow

Smartb0y:
Concerning marriage,the only way you can maintain frame depends on the kind of woman you marry. Her background,personality and lifestyle play a major role.
you really need to study her well,spot all the red flags then weigh your options.
its not easy to spot these red flags but its not impossible either.
Like martinez said women are dynamic. They can fit perfectly well into any situation just to get what they desire.
I still strongly believe her personality/life style goes a long way towards maintaining your frame.
for instance,if she's sanguine and aggressive,be sure to expect lots of punches and insults. Obviously such a woman would be hard to control when she got leverage on her side.
Dude, shit test the shit tester.
I noticed something about myself while growing up,i always test a lady's level of aggression, reason being that i don't like aggressive ladies. I always thought i was a jerk for doing such but now i know better.
so learn to manipulate the manipulator so you have an idea what you're getting.

Like Machiavelli always say it's double pleasure to deceive the deceiver in these case women but how will I raise my kids by being dark triad towards their mother, these remains a puzzle I can't solve, the only thing that comes to my mind is something I can't control and hope for the best in the woman after the selection process, I can't control her behavior but can only control how I react to it

Smartb0y:
Concerning marriage,the only way you can maintain frame depends on the kind of woman you marry. Her background,personality and lifestyle play a major role.
you really need to study her well,spot all the red flags then weigh your options.
its not easy to spot these red flags but its not impossible either.
Like martinez said women are dynamic. They can fit perfectly well into any situation just to get what they desire.
I still strongly believe her personality/life style goes a long way towards maintaining your frame.
for instance,if she's sanguine and aggressive,be sure to expect lots of punches and insults. Obviously such a woman would be hard to control when she got leverage on her side.
Dude, shit test the shit tester.
I noticed something about myself while growing up,i always test a lady's level of aggression, reason being that i don't like aggressive ladies. I always thought i was a jerk for doing such but now i know better.
so learn to manipulate the manipulator so you have an idea what you're getting.

The thing is, we men can try our best in vetting, but harsh truth is that we can never tell the true personality of a woman... you just can never know except what she chooses to show you. Women have their game too, they actually know what men are looking for in committed relationships and they are very good at playing the long game where necessary. Some women are very smart and good at their game that they will pass all sorts of vetting with flying colours.

Nevertheless, I agree with you that it is important to test a woman's aggression. Her temper and anger are important to test. Also, her feminist disposition are important to test. If possible, test these things. Just note that the chameleon nature of women can hide a lot about her personality that your vetting won't reveal.

Martinez39s:
The thing is, we men can try our best in vetting, but harsh truth is that we can never tell the true personality of a woman... you just can never know except what she chooses to show you. Women have their game too, they actually know what men are looking for in committed relationships and they are very good at playing the long game where necessary. Some women are very smart and good at their game that they will pass all sorts of vetting with flying colours.

Nevertheless, I agree with you that it is important to test a woman's aggression. Her temper and anger are important to test. Also, her feminist disposition are important to test. If possible, test these things. Just note that the chameleon nature of women can hide a lot about her personality that your vetting won't reveal.

i totally agree with agree. With redpill i believe it'll go a long way.

JESHAL:
Like Machiavelli always say it's double pleasure to deceive the deceiver in these case women but how will I raise my kids by being dark triad towards their mother, these remains a puzzle I can't solve, the only thing that comes to my mind is something I can't control and hope for the best in the woman after the selection process, I can't control her behavior but can only control how I react to it.

The śhit tests, nagging and game from a woman never stop. Keeping frame in marriage isn't an easy thing; it can be tiring and very stressful. Mind you, women are very stubborn and do not concede easily in their game, especially when they have the leverage. Trying to match her craze for craze, and game for game, can cause chaos and disruptive clashes in the home. Most men don't want their kids growing up in such circumstances.

Martinez39s:
The śhit tests and game from a woman never stop. Keeping frame in marriage isn't an easy thing; it can be tiring and very stressful. Mind you, women are very stubborn and do not concede easily in their game, especially when they have the leverage. Trying to match her craze for craze, and game for game, can cause chaos and disruptive clashes in the home. Most men don't want their kids growing up in such circumstances.

@JESHAL

Another thing that is important to note is that during such clashes and chaos, the man hands are tied in the sense that he doesn't want a broken home for his kids with a wife that doesn't have him in his good books. Walking away has consequences he doesn't want. Men usually want their kids to have the so-called benefits of a healthy two-parent household. Hence, compromise is the way because the woman will remain stubborn no matter what, even if it all burns to the ground.

During a clash which threatens the peace of the house (and hence implies separation if it lingers), one problem for men is usually who has major or full custody of the kids during separation. In many cases, it's usually the woman, and many people see women as the primary caretakers of the children and the most caring and compassionate parent (People even quip that children "belong" to the mother; we know children are usually close to their mother and they usually take the mother's side). Believe me, in such cases, it is not beneath a woman to engineer parental alienation against you and gradually poison the kids' minds against you with all sorts of malicious lies and half-truths. Women usually do this when they have a bitter dispute or disagreement with their spouse. Why? Your kids are also a leverage, big leverage, she can wield against you in order to control you or get back at you by manipulating your love for them (Women usually manipulate your emotions). Also, the woman will usually go around spreading false information about the man to others that care to listen. Men want to be involved in their children's lives. Such game isn't beneath a woman. You can't bank on your woman to be different because you never know.

Even in a setting where the father is still married, he spends much time at work to cater for the family and the woman spends much time with the children, there is ample room for the woman to mold her relationship and bond with the children as she wishes in anyway possible. Women prefer the children to be closer to them than their fathers and to see them as the more loving parent; it is good for security and leverage situation. You never know the picture your wife is painting about you to your kids behind your back.

Martinez39s:
@JESHAL

Another thing that is important to note is that during such clashes and chaos, the man hands are tied in the sense that he doesn't want a broken home for his kids with a wife that doesn't have him in his good books. Walking away has consequences he doesn't want. Men usually want their kids to have the so-called benefits of a healthy two-parent household. Hence, compromise is the way because the woman will remain stubborn no matter what, even if it all burns to the ground.

During a clash which threatens the peace of the house (and hence implies separation if it lingers), one problem for men is usually who has major or full custody of the kids during separation. In many cases, it's usually the woman, and many people see women as the primary caretakers of the children and the most caring and compassionate parent (People even quip that children "belong" to the mother; we know children are usually close to their mother and they usually take the mother's side). Believe me, in such cases, it is not beneath a woman to engineer parental alienation against you and gradually poison the kids' minds against you with all sorts of malicious lies and half-truths. Women usually do this when they have a bitter dispute or disagreement with their spouse. Why? Your kids are also a leverage, big leverage, she can wield against you in order to control you or get back at you by manipulating your love for them (Women usually manipulate your emotions). Also, the woman will usually go around spreading false information about the man to others that care to listen. Men want to be involved in their children's lives. Such game isn't beneath a woman. You can't bank on your woman to be different because you never know.

Even in a setting where the father is still married, he spends much time at work to cater for the family and the woman spends much time with the children, there is ample room for the woman to mold her relationship and bond with the children as she wishes in anyway possible. Women prefer the children to be closer to them than their fathers and to see them as the more loving parent; it is good for security and leverage situation. You never know the picture your wife is painting about you to your kids behind your back.

In Nigeria context, my parents generation though, if a marriage fails it's the fault of the wife,by girls nowadays are more promiscuous than ever, everyone is following trend very hedonistic and selfish generation,at least fear of pregnancy dreaded our ancestral grannies and shaming also to curb their innate Hypergamous instincts, that's why I will settle with virgin (s) to mitigate risk in my relationship as whores can't pair bond, I don't care if she converts to Islam, but the issue is finding the right virgin, what's your take on this issue

@my last post

The best way to go about this would be to have structures in place that will ensure that access and custody to your kids isn't determined or majorly controlled by your wife in case of separation. But, this is hard for most men, even in Africa. Society, most men included, subconsciously buy into the idea that children "belong" to the mother and men usually try to negotiate and plead with their bitter spouses to calm down and let them see the kids. Las Las, even if you are allowed mandatory visitation at certain times (maybe you went to court or whatever), the woman still spends more time than you with the kids and hence can run her game on their minds. By the way, we men usually spend most time working to stack bread for the kids and family and someone has to take care of the kids. The mother usually does that, except you have other ideas like employing a nanny.

The kids will be used as leverage during a dispute by a woman if she can do so. Usually, women have shown that they can place their petty disputes, vindictiveness and games above their children, unlike fathers, so the man's hands are tied by his compassion, maturity and consideration for the kids' sake.

https://www.nairaland.com/5396187/children-deadbeat-fathers-time-think#81881574

@JESHAL

I am working on your last post. I will come with an answer this night or tomorrow morning. I have a lot to say in one post. Typing too much has drained time. There is something I need to attend to, offline. See you later.

Martinez39s:
@my last post

The best way to go about this would be to have structures in place that will ensure that access and custody to your kids isn't determined or majorly controlled by your wife in case of separation. But, this is hard for most men, even in Africa. Society, most men included, subconsciously buy into the idea that children "belong" to the mother and men usually try to negotiate and plead with their bitter spouses to calm down and let them see the kids. Las Las, even if you are allowed mandatory visitation at certain times (maybe you went to court or whatever), the woman still spends more time than you with the kids and hence can run her game on their minds. By the way, we men usually spend most time working to stack bread for the kids and family and someone has to take care of the kids. The mother usually does that, except you have other ideas like employing a nanny.

The kids will be used as leverage during a dispute by a woman if she can do so. Usually, women have shown that they can place their petty disputes, vindictiveness and games above their children, unlike fathers, so the man's hands are tied by his compassion, maturity and consideration for the kids' sake.

https://www.nairaland.com/5396187/children-deadbeat-fathers-time-think#81881574

Martinez39s you're a wise man. I appreciate the knowledge. In summary, there is no real "solution" to this frame and manipulation issue if one decided to get married right?